What mormons really believe

[editor5]

All religions are absurd fantasy; but mormonism is like a sci fi superman cartoon.Star bases; endless sex;spirits; strange planets; demons; cursed blacks; Disturbing fantastical ideas; that have no basis in reality. Racist ideas. Worshiping the ideas of a delusional con man. This is the cult to which Mitt Romney belongs. Even nuttier than Christianity.

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[left on green only]

1. The thing I wanna know is.......

what do they do when their magic underwear gets a gold spot in the seat?





Upon edit for syntax.

[Confusious]

3. Weird

Like you said all religions are weird, but most you can see the progression from A to Z.

Mormons seem to have went of the rails into their own alphabet.

*Knock**Knock* god calling for a booty call!

[Beartracks]

4. Wow, this wasn't covered in our Salt Lake City tour!

I had no idea their creation story was this elaborate. I'd only recently heard of Kolob thanks to Bill Maher.

P.S. Where did this animation come from?

==========================

[KansDem]

9. "Where did this animation come from?"

I see similarities with the 1960s cartoon, "Hercules"

[Beartracks]

11. "Fire in his eyes, iron in his thighs"??

LOL Thanks, KansDem. The animation style is similar.

[Ishoutandscream2]

35. With the great Johnny Nash singing the theme

Thanks, I used to watch this as a kid.

[jimlup]

5. Well OK so these folks seem like an older version of the L. Ron Hubbard thing

Dawkin's describes the theology of Christianity as "barking mad". If so then what would you call this stuff?

[The Magistrate]

6. Call It, Sir, What Barking Mad Barks At...

"Romney loves America like a tick loves a dog."

[kestrel91316]

7. WIN!

[Raster]

19. Mormonism: The 19th century version of Scientology.

When it comes to inventing your own religion, complete with sacred texts and direct lines to God, L. Ron Hubbard had nothing on Joseph Smith.

[Mkap]

8. Just as nutty as Tom Cruise

gods ruling for planets? Sounds to me a little like scientology

[defacto7]

10. Ah!

Such purity of skin, radiance of eye, soundness of mind...

So fair

So Delightsome!

Thank Elohim I was never born of darkened skin and unhandsomely featured.

I shall now become a god!

[vlyons]

12. Pretty amazing that Jos. Smith

could conceive of space travel, exoplanets in his life time. If the scifi genre of fiction writing had existed, he might have had a legitimate outlet for his tom-foolery. Then again, L. Ron Hubbard moved from scifi writing to religion, as did Rev. Moon. They're all charlatans preying naive and deeply troubled people.

[Shadowflash]

13. heh.

It's just as plausible and makes just as much sense (read: none) as any other religion.

[defacto7]

58. hear, hear!

Last edited Tue Sep 4, 2012, 01:23 PM - Edit history (1)

agreed!

[jerseyjack]

14. This gives me hope.

It seems many urflings became gods and moved to other planets. How can I become a god?

[BrainMann1]

15. I'll do my homework

a little with this one. If it's true we have a fruit cake running for president.

[olegramps]

16. Just read the Book of Mormon. Its all there.

[Raster]

21. The Book of Mormon is a work of fiction, plain and simple.

NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING, in the Book of Mormon can be validated or authenticated.

NOTHING archeological, anthropological, biological or historical. NOTHING.

[polly7]

24. I was just doing a little reading on that, it seems to be mostly based on

complete baloney.

http://www.exmormon.org/whyileft.htm

Archeological findings for the time period of the Book of Mormon:
Ass..... NONE
Bull.... NONE
Calf.... NONE
Cattle.. NONE
Cow..... NONE
Butter.. NONE
Milk.... NONE
Flocks.. NONE
Goat.... NONE
Herds... NONE
Horse... NONE
Ox...... NONE
Sheep... NONE
Sow..... NONE
Swine... NONE
Elephants (NONE contemporary with the Book of Mormon)

Again from Tom Ferguson: "Evidence of the foregoing animals has not appeared in any form -- ceramic representations, bones or skeletal remains, mural art, sculptured art or any other form. However... evidence has been found in several forms of the presence in the Book-of-Mormon times of other animals--deer, jaguars, dogs, turkeys etc. The zero score presents a problem that will not go away with the ignoring of it. Non-LDS scholars of first magnitude, some who want to be our friends, think we have real trouble here. That evidence of the ancient existence of these animals is not elusive is found in the fact that proof of their existence in the ancient old-world is abundant. The absence of such evidence...is distressing and significant, in my view."

Metals

I will be briefer on the metals, but this is fascinating to me as I have both a BS and MS in metallurgical engineering.
Evidence supporting the existence of these metals, skills and products...at this time as follows:
Bellows....... NONE
Brass......... NONE
Breast Plates. NONE
Chains........ NONE
Copper........ NONE
Iron.......... NONE
Ore (mining).. NONE (this is very significant, no evidence of mining activities)
Plows......... NONE
Silver........ NONE
Swords........ NONE (none that are metal)
Steel......... NONE
Again from Tom Ferguson: "Metallurgy does not appear in the region until about the 9th century A.D. ...I regard this as a major weakness in the armor of our proponents and friends". ...Art does not portray the existence of metallurgical products or metallurgical activity. Again, the score is zero.

There are so many items archeologically, historically and using textual criticism to show the Book of Mormon to be fictional, that anyone willing to do a little study will reach the same conclusion.

CHURCH MEMBERS

"I believe deceit goes on at all levels of the church by seasoned members, with much of it well intended, but done with incredible ignorance. The degree of deceit varies with the intelligence, knowledge and church position of the seasoned members involved. When a member of the church brings up a historical or doctrinal problem, a seasoned member has learned how to give pat answers which give a superficially satisfactory resolution. For example, the question of why is the temple so similar to Masonry may get asked. The standard answer is that Masonry goes back to Solomon's temple. Any reasonable inquiry into that myth will show it to be absurd historically. This does seem however to satisfy one who does not dig any deeper and does not want to be troubled. Senior members of the church dole out such dribble all the time. In many cases they do not know themselves and give such a response because it was satisfactory to them. More intelligent individuals, such as Hugh Nibley, use their prolific creation of unrelated materials to confuse the question and the normal church member then concludes all must be well because someone wrote so much about it and the member is too overwhelmed to be troubled anymore. Is this deceit? I think it is. A seasoned member usually wants to give the impression of having superior knowledge and spirituality with no doubts expressed verbally about his or her faith. This facade is required in leadership positions and is also required in most Mormon social circles. The senior levels of the church are composed of individuals who hide behind their positions of trust and are experts at giving great impressions. This is subtle and powerful deception."

I find it very interesting that lying seems to be accepted to defend the religion and it really helps to explain, to me, Romney's ability to twist or completely change his facts depending on the circumstances, and the ease with which he does it.

[Ernest Partridge]

49. And there is more

Add to this the fact that wheat, barley, oats, all mentioned in the Book of Mormon, were absent in pre-columbian America. If they were brought here by migrating Hebrews, they would surely have survived. No evidence of this.

Moreover, for decades it has been well-known that blood type analysis indicated an asian origin of the native Americans. (The B antigen is missing from both populations). Recent DNA analysis settles the issue: native Americans are descended from wandering Siberian tribes that couldn't keep their bearing (Bering) strait.

For more, see the Smithsonian statement concerning the Book of Mormon:
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/smithsonianletter2.htm

And my "About this Mormonism Thing." http://gadfly.igc.org/eds/philo/mormonism.htm

Ernest Partridge
The Online Gadfly
www.igc.org/gadfly

[barbtries]

50. interesting stuff.

thank you.

[polly7]

52. Thanks very much for all of this, it's very interesting and revealing.

[leeroysphitz]

17. That's super. n/t

[The CCC]

18. what mormons really believe

What a stupid bigoted hit piece.

[Raster]

20. Prey tell... why don't you enlighten us? Please, explain IN DETAIL how the "hit piece"...

...is in error.

Oh, and welcome to DU. Enjoy your brief stay.

[donquijoterocket]

28. I'm sure

You don't really expect any answer to your question. I've put similar questions to numbers of wingers over time and have yet to receive a single answer or even really an attempt.
Considering this theology, which I pretty well knew from having lived among and near LDS communities I'm reminded of Voltaire's assertion that:those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. In view of the fact of the Mountain Meadows massacre ,which the saints don't like to mention, it seems germane.

[Raster]

45. You are correct. I don't expect an answer. It was a textbook drive-by post.

That is too bad. I would have liked to hear what they had to say, point-by-point. The Original Post is NOT incorrect. It is a fair picture of secret, sacred Mormon doctrine usually revealed only to the most devout.

[OregonBlue]

31. How is this a hit piece? Are you trying to say this is not what they believe?

I've known quite a number of Mormons and this is exactly what they believe.

[patrice]

38. Please do not feel assaulted here. I AM honestly curious.

[olegramps]

57. Please inform us as to any inaccuracy in the piece.

[heaven05]

22. this

is awful. How can logical, rational, compassionate and thinking human beings allow themselves to be deluded so? This is demented, deranged and insane. I could go on and on, I won't. How sad.

[RoccoR5955]

26. No it's not...

When they die, they go on to rule other planets. It's a great incentive.
No wonder there are all those UFO sightings!

[mopinko]

23. they also believe

in piling up big piles of money, investing it in businesses, and making a f'ing lot of money. that can get a person to overlook a lot of fairy stories.

[RoccoR5955]

25. And there's the hook.

When they die, they become rulers of other planets!
Quite interesting.
Also this form of mythology has its basis on a lot of other forms of mythology, both biblical and other.
I see that Mr. Smith did a bit of research when he formed his myths.

[Swede Atlanta]

27. While I have reservations about many of their beliefs....

I consider them to be one of the most immoral forces in American society because they promote unlimited pro-creation. At a time when we, even in this country, cannot (well actually do not) provide food, housing, medical care and opportunity for all those currently on this planet, the Mormons are out screwing themselves to death trying to make as many babies as possible.

It is the height of narcissism to want to see your "seed" continued beyond your own life. It is a natural ANIMAL instinct to want to see your species continue but the level of abject immorality of Mormons is beyond me.

We have billions of people on this planet without adequate food, water, health care, shelter, etc. The LAST thing we should do is screw and make more babies. We need to figure out how we address the needs of those alive here and now.

So for them to say they are moral and believe in the sanctity of life is of course, a BIG FAT LIE. They have no such beliefs. They are narcissistic to the end.

[patrice]

40. un-limited procreation + un-limited materialism/wealth acquisition = PROFOUNDLY destructive. nt

[tularetom]

29. The only selling point for any religion is the promise of an afterlife where things are better

sometimes combined with the threat of eternal damnation if you don't mind your p's and q's here on earth.

If you are trying to convert people to your religion it helps if you have something better than the other "faiths" to promise potential converts.

You really have to give the Mormons credit, they have come up with what sounds like a pretty good deal. Play it straight, give us 10% of everything you have and you get to be the god of your own planet after you die.

That's even better than 72 virgins. If you are god and have your own planet, you can create all the virgins you want.

Pretty hard to compete with that.

[patrice]

42. This is the only one that I know of that makes dogma of WHERE that afterlife actually is located,i.e

NOT here.

Christianity, for example, in the Nicene Creed, mentions heaven, but I know of nowhere that Christianity has defined dogma that says anything like this Kolob thing. The most we are told is that heaven is "not of this world", that isn't necessarily not of Earth, but rather not of the world as we know it and I'd pretty much agree with that. This does not preclude the possibility of heaven being this Earth with more aware, responsible, free, and hence loving, people on it.

I guess I should mention that I am highly influenced by the Jesus Seminar, and Liberation Theology, regarding all of this, so I see the man Jesus as a liberator who was trying to tell us stuff, HUMANISTIC stuff couched in the culture of the day. That made him very popular, like a rock star, which scared his RELIGION so they instigated his murder with the help of his STATE, because they are afraid of the freedom that he was spreading. They have, since, marketed the very slavery in his name that he actually opposed and have, therefore, embroidered the truth with a whole bunch of bullshit in order to aggrandize their own power. Religion has turned his actions and words into woo woo; he was talking about us right here right now and how we shape what happens in the future by how we treat one another.

[B Stieg]

30. Why do these religions...

...inevitably end up with men in control of some sort of harem?

"7 Virgins and a mule, keep it cool keep it cool..."

[gopiscrap]

32. NO kidding

I find them wierd!

[Moonwalk]

33. Joe Smith was the Hugh Heftner of His Day...

No wonder Momonism got popular and stuck around! It's the one "Christian" religion that doesn't require anyone to abstain--it wants people to have lots of sex--the gods have sex with goddesses to produce spirits, then have sex with humans to give those spirits bodies. Two for one! And then one gets to be a god, have a planet, and engage in more sex! For the nineteenth century, all this talk of sex in a religious book--and urging men to have it with lots of women--is almost pornographic.

[Wellstone ruled]

34. Polly 7 nailed the

Joe Myth POS. Read some where Joe and his brother Hyrum swiped a manuscript from some printer and this became their Book of Mormon. The more you investigate these dolts,the more you find how fake and phony they are. Joe Myth was just a Griffter and a hustler. Geez,sounds like the Wasilla griffter.

I've said it here before,this is the same hustle job Joe Myth used in the 1800's when he ran for Pres.

[Moostache]

36. I remember clips of this were used in Religulous

Mormonism is no different than any other religion. People will tie themselves into mental knots trying to make all the pieces fit (see creationists for all the examples if this you'd ever need - or just watch that cartoon again!)...but try as they might, there is no way for them to actually square the circle.

If you seek the spiritual, going to a communal church is not the way to find it...
If seek community, holding exclusionary beliefs and special conditions for the "in-group" is not the way to do it...

I see no personal or social benefit to the modern religions. At one time in our past they were necessary to hold together populations and allow for semi-orderly growth of civilization, but from the time of the Enlightenment on, the globe would be better served with a total loss of tribal religions.

[RKP5637]

56. Well said! I see many religions troday as destructive forces. Frankly, they are obsolete. n/t

[patrice]

37. K, so their attitude toward non-White skins is that they don't figure in their spirit-universe

equations?

What is their attitude toward "Israel-ites"? How does that triangulate with End-Timer attitudes towards Israel? And where the heck do American Indians, "Israel-ites" according to Mormons, figure in all of that?

Geo-politically relevant stuff, don't you think, especially since End-Timers' (i.e. Evangelicals') attitude toward Israel is that we will know that the End Times are here when Israel is destroyed in Armageddon, right?

Sorry, all, this stuff has me chasing my tail a bit.

I need to go read up on some stuff.

[patrice]

39. BTW, wasn't Jesus non-White? Race is SO confusing!!!! nt

[polly7]

41. Yes, it seems pretty strange, doesn't it? I know nothing about it and am curious too,

this is from an ex-Mormon:

http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm

"Mormonism includes many other unusual teachings which you will probably not be told about until you have been in the church for a long time. These teachings are not revealed to investigators or new converts because those people are not yet considered ready to have more than "milk" as doctrine. The Mormons also probably realize that if investigators knew of these unusual teachings they would not join the church. In addition to those mentioned elsewhere in this article, the following are noteworthy:

NOTES

"God was once a man like us.
God has a tangible body of flesh and bone.
God lives on a planet near the star Kolob.
God ("Heavenly Father&quot has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her.
Jesus was married.
We can become like God and rule over our own universe.
There are many gods, ruling over their own worlds.
Jesus and Satan ("Lucifer&quot are brothers, and they are our brothers - we are all spirit children of Heavenly Father
Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife.
We should not pray to Jesus, nor try to feel a personal relationship with him.
The "Lord" ("Jehovah&quot in the Old Testament is the being named Jesus in the New Testament, but different from "God the Father" ("Elohim&quot .
In the highest degree of the celestial kingdom some men will have more than one wife.
Before coming to this earth we lived as spirits in a "pre-existence", during which we were tested; our position in this life (whether born to Mormons or savages, or in America or Africa) is our reward or punishment for our obedience in that life.
Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin, or the sin of our ancestors. If sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned.
The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. All humanity before the Great Flood lived in the western hemisphere. The Ark transported Noah and the other survivors to the eastern hemisphere.
Not only will human beings be resurrected to eternal life, but also all animals - everything that has ever lived on earth - will be resurrected and dwell in heaven.
Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow.
Mormons should avoid traveling on water, since Satan rules the waters.
The sun receives its light from the star Kolob.
If a Gentile becomes Mormon, the Holy Ghost actually purges his Gentile blood and replaces it with Israelite blood.
A righteous Mormon will actually see the face of God in the Mormon temple.
You can identify a false angel by the color of his hair, or by offering to shake his hand."

ummmm ... come on, they never seriously believed a lot of this stuff, did they? I think it's great that people have a belief-system that gives them comfort, but a lot of this seems so damaging, and like others have said, just another excuse for a group of specific people to get rich and maintain a lifestyle that clearly benefits themselves.

[patrice]

43. DOES seem kind of pernicious because, even if you kind of short-circuit like I am, about LDS,

short-circuiting because (like the Bible and religion in general) all of these words, words, words, and more words cranked out by anyone and everyone ((as long as they play whatever the current word game is that pretends that words and what words (ONLY) refer to are the same identity, i.e. the same thing, so everyone keeps repeating the same mistakes, intentionally or otherwise)) ... all of these words MISS the point that one CAN see in the life of a man named Yeshua, a.k.a. Lord Jesus, and so many many other "saints": DEEDS are our true words. Deeds are the means by which we create what is referred to as "heaven" and/or "hell" here and now and, because of those phenomenological facts, project those deeds and their effects into the future.

So: What we do matters (not so much the words) and if what you do, e.g. unlimited procreation and exploitation of others, including discrimination against women, plus unlimited wealth acquisition, . . . that is, if what you do enslaves others, then you are anti-life no matter how many babies you make.

But my point in bringing this up is that I suspect if I were able to point these facts out to the LDS pope/gods, they'd say ALL of that IS as it should be, BECAUSE THEY ARE HEADED SOMEWHERE ELSE ANYWAY and the only way to get there is to die, so the sooner the better for most life, you're actually doing them a favor by letting them die, or letting them be killed, because they all belong to the elect/gods anyway, who are headed elsewhere.

See my point? It's a perfectly self-justifying circle.

I'm trying to be open minded, but it appears rather pernicious, but then perhaps not a lot more so than many other religions.

[polly7]

44. Good points, and I suspect you're probably right on them.

eta: sorry, I hope you didn't think I was dissing anyone here with my 'ummmm, come on ' - that was towards those in the Church trying to sell these things the ex-member pointed out.

[patrice]

46. There's a strong current out there being generated by LDS, Libertarians, Tea Party, Republicans,

especially Evangelical/End-Timer Republicans, and also some Anarchists.

Race and Gender are two powerful threads through those groups; that's why we need multiple leaders to talk boldly ACROSS all of those groups about their bullshit and race and gender would be good places to start, though at its heart I think economic class drives all of it, with religion, race and gender used as their preferred weapons.

[Bucky]

47. I like the part where God says you can balance the budget by cutting taxes.

Seriously, tho, it's silly getting all sanctimonious when half of us believe Star Wars is real. Star Trek is the truth, people, how long do I have to keep on pointing that out to yall?

[amuse bouche]

48. Why do people want to believe this nonsense?

Are they desperate to live in a Star Trek episode?

Seems you have to be a moron to believe in any of this crap

I watched some episodes on youtube from veil workers and former morons.

So boring and flat out stupid

[RebelOne]

59. So why do people want to believe the nonsense in the bible? n/t

[amuse bouche]

60. I agree but

at least the bible is really old nonsense.

Watching an ex Mormon explain the hideous and ridiculous 'Veil Ceremony" was enough to put a person
in a coma or wish for one

[valerief]

51. I write fiction, too. nt

[darkangel218]

53. So .. theyre openly racist in their beliefs??

Wow!

[Plucketeer]

54. Coo-Coo, Coo-Coo!

[RKP5637]

55. Is LDS a code word for LSD? n/t