Bernie Sanders explains Democratic Socialism and its not scary.

[tomhagen]

[still_one]

2. That is exactly right.

[awesomerwb1]

3. But but

I thought this guy was some kind of modern day genius with brand new never heard of before ideas!

[walkingman]

4. Why such a passionate anti-Bernie response? He's done nothing wrong.

[kennetha]

5. Dishonest Demagoguery

is not wrong?

I think demagoguery of the left (Sanders) is just as wrong as demagoguery of the right (Trump).

[billpolonsky]

25. They can't help themselves

The anti Sanders nonsense is tiring.
It goes on and on.

[yaesu]

27. I can never figure that out. For someone who has caucused with Dems, had their backs for years

and moved the party to the left, where it should have been for years, he sure gets a lot of hate.

[rwsanders]

29. I think you answered your own question.

Somewhere between "and" and "he", but if I get more specific, my post might be removed.

[onit2day]

15. That is exactly what Sanders is saying. Capitalism is purely an economic state but

Democratic socialism is more and does not exclude capitalism. We will still be a capitalistic country but we will 'democratically' prevent capitalists from privatizing our social safety net as you call it and we will vote for representatives to ensure that all of us can have our basic needs meant. What you refer to as "capitalistic welfare states just like the US" IS socialism. We already are a Democratic Socialist Republic but Bernie, like most of us, does not want to privatize our Postal service, or our police departments, fire dept., libraries, public schools, SS, Medicare, Military or the VA etc.. He wants to expand our socialist programs by including Medicare for all. free higher education (like it was before Reagan) increased Min. wage so we have a livable wage, family leave and child care. Nowhere does Bernie suggest the Gov take over the means pf production. This is why he calls it what it is- Democratic Socialism but you refer to it as "social ownership of the means of production" which is twisting in a very negative way what the modern use of democratic socialism means. Never fails. Anytime Bernie's name is mentioned we get those with Bernie derangement syndrome coming out to spew their hate---"A dishonest demagogue" from one who doesn't even know the difference between capitalism and democratic socialism. Plus that breaks forum rules of no name calling. Bernie is honestly a man of the people who has worked all his life for the betterment of Americans and hopefully our next president which is why he is in 1st place so far. Beware the Russian trolls.

[lunamagica]

16. Great post. Deseving of its own thread

[sandensea]

6. Bernie should refer to it as social democracy

Which is what he's really proposing.

Social democracy works; democratic socialism, often doesn't.

[kennetha]

8. Problem is

He actually IS a life long actual socialist. The democratic party of the US has at times behaved very much like a European social Democratic Party and Bernie has never wanted any part of that. Because he seems implicitly to actually be for social ownership and democratic control of the means of production.

[sandensea]

10. True - but I'm not too worried about it.

Should Bernie become our next president, as you can imagine, only a few of his proposals are likely to become law (probably the very same ones almost all Democrats support) - and certainly nothing by way of state ownership.

Should Cheeto be re-elected, on the other hand, we'll almost certainly have another 2008-style collapse by 2024 - upon which several of our leading firms will probably need to be nationalized in order to save millions of jobs.

[onit2day]

18. Back that up cause it's Not True. Social ownership? Where? Control means of prod? where?

Does the gov control the PO or libraries or fire departments. schools etc...or do we by our votes and our representatives. All democratically elected socialist programs and Bernie's policies are the same. We decide, Bernie recommends.

[Uncle Joe]

7. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread tomhagen.

[LongtimeAZDem]

9. If you think that explaining it will make his branding problem go away, you're fooling yourself

[efhmc]

12. Thanks for your answer.

[onit2day]

20. He's ahead of all candidates so far and set records raising $ from small donations

He's been really popular among republicans too. I believe he can unite the nation with his common sense proposals which btw, matches what the polls say the majority of Americans claim they want. Republicans will belittle any candidate we select. He has a lot less baggage than Clinton and she still won the election by popular vote. We certainly don't need to help them demean our candidates. Personally I would love to see a Sanders/ Warren ticket with a dem senate and house. That would REALLY make America great again.

[lark]

11. Fine, he should run as a Democratic Socialist, let them fund his efforts and provide database info.

He's one or the other, but pretends to be a Dem only when it serves him selfishly, then he throws them out with the bathwater.

[efhmc]

13. Again I am thankful for a true answer about Bernie.

nt

[onit2day]

21. Nonsense. why so hateful and divisive because it's unsupported by the facts

[lark]

32. No hate, I personally like a lot of Bernies' polciies, it's just his disloyalty I dislike.

I voted for him in the primaries last time, then switched to Clinton once I learned more about him. When he switched to Democrat to run, I took him at his word, when he switched back, I got the message loud and clear - don't trust him. Why would I support him anymore than I'd support Stein getting $$ from Democrats? Democrats should give their $$ to people that are part of the party, not to users like him. who would once again turn on the party.

[chwaliszewski]

14. +1

[murielm99]

17. As an activist,

I go out and talk to voters.

They don't give a flying fuck about this jargon and those semantics. They don't want pie in the sky and empty promises. They tune out.

They want jobs. They want security for themselves and their children. They want health care. They want an end to the roller coaster ride 45 is giving everyone and the hate he is fostering.

Bernie offers none of that.

[onit2day]

22. I too talk to a lot of voters and they love Bernie and he offers all you mention

He offers rebuilding our infrastructure and the Green New Deal and like FDR's new deal he includes lots of jobs not only for infrastructure but also going green putting solar roofs on all gov buildings (and homes like Germany did) and putting wind mills all over the country, high speed rail. He was first to introduce health care for all. These are not fantasy anymore than FDR's new deal. Wish you would stand for it with those you encounter instead of just despair with them. Bernie has a history of standing with the needs of the people...his entire life.

[murielm99]

23. Your post is full of holes.

The green new deal was not his idea. Jimmy Carter was all for putting solar panels on roofs. He put them on the White House. We have wind mills on our farm property, and had them long before Bernie appropriated the idea from others.

He was far from the first to introduce health care for all.

I work hard to GOTV for Democrats and I always have.

If Bernie agrees with the ideas that others have pioneered, he should say so and give them credit. He should announce his support and his willingness to work with them.

I know what I am seeing and hearing from people after fifty plus years of activism.

[onit2day]

26. 5yrs ago when Bernie presented his bill for HC for all, 0 senators co-sponsored it

Now most of them do. Bernie doesn't care who might have suggested it in the past he is trying to make it happen. Sure Carter Put solar panels on Roof of WH and congress began giving tax credits for home owners and contractors who did the same, Bernie is just trying to make it happen again nation wide. What I don't understand is why are you so nit-picky instead of rooting him on..."his support and working with them"? who exactly. I applaud your activism and encourage you to "Support and work" with progressives to make it happen whether it's with Bernie or others. Or as Bernie says "Despair is not an option". Also compare what you say you are hearing and seeing in your 'activism' with the fact that Bernie set a record from small donations when he announced well above all other candidates plus national polling puts him in the lead above all other candidates. I know it's way early yet but surely this should tell you what you are hearing is not what the nation is telling us. Perk up, dems will win.

[rwsanders]

31. Denile is not just a river in Egypt...

It appears that there are some who think that beating you in an argument will change what is happening in the real world.
Real world is that 72% of voters who identify as "democratic" favor progressive ideas.
The democrats have gotten clobbered in elections after they sat on their hands and did nothing while in the majority.
They seem to think we have a cult of personality about Bernie, when it is just that he represents the most of the ideas that we want.
So don't take the vitriol personally, they have reality to battle.
(its late, hope my post was clear as supporting not arguing with you)

[onit2day]

24. FDR said " a necessitist man is not a free man". Ensuring freedom means

making sure we can all have access to what is necessary to survive or have our needs meant which is why he wrote a 2nd bill of rights and which is why AOC presented the Green New Deal and why Bernie is here to ensure our freedom and our survival.

[stonecutter357]

28. "I'm not a socialist , I don't think the democratic party is socialist.

[onit2day]

30. Yes you are and so is the party if you stand for SS, Medicare, police & fire departments

highways, libraries, public education, EPA, VA, the list goes on and on as these are all socialism...Democratic socialism. Wonder if you have a republican definition of socialism which is totally incorrect. Republicans are the ones who want to privatize everything to personally profit from our social programs. FDR's NEW Deal was socialism and it saved our country from the horrors of the republican Great Depression and still does.