To show your friends who think they are safe carrying a gun.

[Maraya1969]

This is not a new video but it bears repeating.

[stonecutter357]

1. K&R

[Cosmocat]

2. Won't matter

I, and anyone with the first lick of sense, doesn't need to watch a video to know this.

It is simple common sense.

People who think this is a good idea have been programmed for years, decades by right wing head shrinking, and in this case, and every other instance, climate change, trickle down economics, etc, they live in a world so far removed from actual reality they simply just reject it out of hand, no matter how stone cold obvious it is.

[thbobby]

6. Common Sense

I made my post before I read yours. Common sense seems very uncommon for a lot of idiots. Loved your post.

[Cosmocat]

11. Painful to live a country awash in stupid ...

[azureblue]

42. I call it the Too much TV syndrome

People watch these comic book action movies and come to think that because they saw how to do it on TV they can do that themselves. They start thinking they are Chuck Norris, Rambo, Bruce Lee, Jason Bourne, etc. Then they run up against the real world and get themselves killed. But, hey, TV makes you stupid, so I guess it's Darwin Award thing..

[Maraya1969]

26. I am more positive than you. I think that if a bunch of gun nuts were shown this

a couple might rethink their positions. They would probably still carry a gun but they might not as enthusiastically encourage others to get them AND make guns their one vote issue

[Cosmocat]

35. doubtful

our state legislature is trying to advance a law to allow school district employees to bring guns to work.

Just an unimaginably ridiculous idea, and of course people all around me think it is wonderful.

I have had countless discussions laying out the absurdity of it, and conservatives being conservatives, all it does is piss them off.

[azureblue]

44. True, and

go ask an open carry person how much range time they put in in the past three weeks. Ask them if they have had any field range (where you are in a "town" and targets pop out from cover). Their responses will tell you why there should not be any open carry laws.

[Warpy]

55. Even some liberal gun owners think they're Rambo

and there's nothing you can say or do to dissuade them.

If you've got a concealed gun, you'll make yourself conspicuous as you try to rummage it out. You will be shot quickly.

If you've got an open carry gun, you're the first one a surprise gunner will shoot.

[thbobby]

3. Idiots with guns

Just common sense. Life is not a Rambo Movie. A crisis is stressful.

Want to kill your friends? Innocent people? Make yourself a target? Carry a gun and fantasize about being a hero.

You will be a dead fantasy hero who killed innocents because you had wet dreams about being Rambo.

[longship]

4. R&K nt

[genxlib]

5. K&R

That is a well done piece. Even more relevant now tan when it was produced because of the insane open campus carry laws coming out.

[Maraya1969]

27. Hey, they can't stop the professor from showing this video in his class. Maybe they all could show

it. It is especially significant since the video actually takes place in a classroom setting.

[7962]

7. No element of surprise. The attacker knows theres a gun present

Very easy to get a desired outcome when you stack the deck. Why was everyone given such oversized shirts to wear? Because in the first example, the shirt gets in the way. So the gunholder is dead. Which he/she would be without the gun as well. At least the girl hit the shooter; and that location would likely put down an attacker.
The element of surprise is the biggest factor in stopping an attacker. Its removed in this scenario.
The element of surprise is present in many other cases. Here's one from just a couple months ago
http://myfox8.com/2017/03/18/surveillance-video-shows-bank-security-guard-killing-armed-robber-in-dramatic-gunfight/

[7962]

15. Yes, "surprised" being the operative word. Robber was certainly surprised.

There are many other examples of ordinary citizens surprising the bad guys who expect to be the only ones armed.
No, I dont think EVERYONE should be carrying a gun.

[Dustlawyer]

14. The concealed part of concealed carry also means that your gun is covered and may

not be easily accessible. The girl that shot the attacker also got hit when she may have made it out if she had just run away. As for the element of surprise, sometimes it would be a surprise, but sometimes they would see the person with the gun acting differently, not running like the others and thus make themselves a target. Besides, I bet t hey didn't tell the bad guy which student had the gun to avoid them targeting the student first. In the video they didn't shoot at the student with the gun first. All of this is before the good guy with the gun has opened up and may hit an innocent or be shot by the cops.

The point is the good guy with the gun will occasionally get the bad guy but usually not. More often the good guy with the gun gets pissed at someone talking loudly in a movie theater and shoots them like someone did a few years back. You get to have your gun, I hope it all turns out well for you and those around you.

[7962]

18. Yes, usually your weapon would be covered;

but in this video, they are wearing such oversized shirts that most are actually siting on the shirt. Most people wouldnt be dressed that way. There was never any reason given for it either. This is also the first time they've carried a weapon, going against a trained officer. No, its not always going to work out for a carrier. But this video was hardly a fair representation

I usually only carry when i'm carrying large amounts of cash for my work.

[Maraya1969]

28. The element of surprise is not missing here and it is not missing in most mass shootings!

That is why a shooter gets off many rounds of gunfire before he is ever put down.

Why can't you see that? If you are in a crowded theater and someone wants to start shooting and wants to start with you first you are going to be dead. It won't matter if you are "carrying" or trained at a shooting range or even got special defense training. You are dead and so are many other people.

[7962]

47. The cop enters the room knowing that 1-2 students are armed. HE cant be surprised

He's actively looking for the armed student.
In almost every case where someone uses a gun in self defense, the criminal doesnt know theres another gun. And in many cases as soon as the victim starts firing the bad guys leave.
Sure, you may still end up dead. Which is what you'd be without any defense too.

[Maraya1969]

53. You are better off to run zig zag then stand there as an open target shooting a gun

[Hoyt]

29. There were armed fools when Gabby Giffords was shot. A little elderly lady brought him down

while the armed fools ducked. I think gunners overestimate their hero potential and how safe their guns make them. Of course they don't care about the 93% of us who do not carry weapons to walk down the street.

[7962]

48. Oh, i have no doubt about their inflated self opinions. "I would've ......". Yeah, they SAY that.

The reality is you never know HOW you'll react.
And in many cases where people talk about "if he wouldve had a gun" it still wouldnt matter. If someone comes up behind you, having gun wont help you. Its too late.

[paleotn]

38. thank you, Wyatt Earp

Umm, the "girl" as you call her, took a round to the head before she shot the perp, ie. she never would have gotten that shot off. Had she started spraying rounds about the room trying to hit the perp....I wonder how much collateral damage she would have caused. You know, there's a very good reason we have trained professionals for such situations. Now back to your OK Corral dreams of grandure.

[azureblue]

43. yeah right

the class puts on helmets and is dressed in loose shirts to prevent bruising, so they know something is about to happen. And the student gun owner still fails. He knows he is wearing a loose shirt, so he should be prepared to deal with it. He has a helmet on, so he knows an attack is coming very soon. He still gets shot. You are a perfect example of what the vid warns against = a gun owner who thinks he or she is safe with a gun. That whooshing sound you hear is the point going right over your head. Better that than a bullet, eh?

[7962]

49. You should listen to the video again.

They're told that this part of the training is a lecture on protective gear; thats why they all have helmets. The carriers have been told that they will be using the weapons later in the day.
And again, without the gun you still end up dead. Maybe with it you dont. Plenty of cases to show that.

[The Wielding Truth]

52. A trained security guard with experience is so different form just a guy with a gun.

The people in the video are not trained to handle this situation.

[Jughead]

8. Safety Training

Every state should require safety training and re certification after 5 years just like a drivers license.
My state requires no license to conceal carry and as a lifetime gun owner scares me that no one is trained.

[BeyondGeography]

20. 26 States Will Let You Carry a Concealed Gun Without Making Sure You Know How to Shoot One

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/02/live-fire-training-not-mandatory-concealed-carry-permits/

A lot of these people probably don't even know how to pick up their own gun, let alone shoot it:

“It takes 2,500 repetitions to pick up a pistol correctly."

[7962]

50. I agree.

[yallerdawg]

9. So when you go buy your gun...

you should also be imagining all the circumstances which may come up and how you would shoot anyone or everyone around you - hopefully with lethal intent so they won't get that shot off at you.

See - this is where I start questioning YOUR mental health.

But don't worry - I'm sure a 'well regulated' police academy 'necessary for the security of a free State' has openings somewhere near you!

[Honeycombe8]

10. People who are unfamiliar or uncomfortable w/using guns...

probably shouldn't be carrying.

I was born and raised in the deep south. Guns are really no problem, when owned & handled & carried by people who are used to them. It's like driving in rain. Being raised in a heavy rain area, I respect flooded streets and know when not to attempt to cross.

I've had a gun most of my adult life. I know how to use it. I wouldn't want to travel in my car w/o it. It's the only thing standing between me and a thug. For a woman, it's a pretty good leveler of power. I've pulled my gun in my house during an attempted break-in. I also think women should have a gun for protection (unless there are small kids in the house). But they need to learn how to shoot it, buy ammo for it. Go the shooting range once or twice a year to brush up on skills. (Be sure to wear those big ear protections UNDERNEATH your hair, as well as eye protection.)

I'm not a gun nut, by any means. But they serve a purpose for the more vulnerable in a crime-infested world.

I've known a lot of people w/guns. I know only of one stupid incident...where a young man about 19 was showing off to his friends & pulling his gun out of the glove compartment of his car and shot himself in his hand. Stupid.

[Rorey]

16. Even some people who are familiar and comfortable

probably shouldn't be carrying. Note I did say "some".

I'm not doubting your ability. I think there are a whole lot of gun owners who think they're capable, but they're not. Case in point: my husband. He doesn't practice. He doesn't maintain his guns. He doesn't have the quick reaction time or the good vision he had when he was younger, and won't accept those pitfalls of getting older. Plus, most important, he seems to be losing more and more common sense with each passing day.

We got an example of his lack of common sense a couple of months ago. He was sitting in his chair watching the idiot box and noticed four police cars outside. We live on a dead end street which ends in a big circle and our house kind of towers over the circle so we get a very good view of everything. We immediately ran back the security footage so we could see what was going on and saw that someone had come through a gate across the circle and then jumped over a fence into our immediate next door neighbor's yard. So my husband ran and got his gun, which he hasn't shot in all of the years that I've known him (several decades!) and went running into our back yard. I figured for sure the day was going to end very badly. Fortunately the guy wasn't in our backyard. I think he had run through because of where he ended up, but had already gone on to another yard. My husband heard some yelling in another yard and then saw another neighbor whack the guy who was running from the police with a board. Hard. The guy got up and kept running. The police got him shortly thereafter. It was quite exciting seeing several of our officers running along the cedar fences. I was impressed with their ability.

Husband and I had a good talk after the adventure. I told him that if he had decided to use his gun we would have no doubt spent our life's savings on his lawyer's fees. He should have stayed in the house with me.

[Honeycombe8]

21. Yeah...particularly testosteron-y men. My gun is for defense, protection.

Not to behave like the Wild West and leave my house to go lookin' for trouble.

It's important particularly for women to stop a criminal before he gets within arm's reach of her (HIS arms, not hers...men have longer arms). Even a small man is stronger than a younger, fitter woman (unless she's a body builder). Once he gets within arm's reach, she has a serious problem.

Having a gun levels the playing field and is one of the few ways to stop someone when they're across the room or coming in the door.

It doesn't solve everything. Criminals have the element of surprise. If you're asleep and awakened by someone in the room, you're pretty much out of luck. But if they're in another room and you're awakened and have your gun nearby, you have a chance.

I've had a couple of attempted break-ins in my life, so although rare, it is something that does happen, and women should be prepared. Women who live alone are sometimes targeted by criminals. Especially older women. They go after the house w/o outside lights, the vulnerable living alone, the easy target. If they target me, though...SURPRISE! This woman has a .38 and knows how to use it. And two dogs that serve as an excellent warning system.

Guns are dangerous, for sure. But consider the stats on what happens to unprotected women who live alone and a criminal breaks in. She will most likely be raped and/or beaten up and/or murdered. Almost all women who are taken off somewhere by criminals are murdered. When faced with those stats, the risk of injury from having a gun is warranted, for me.

Guns seem alien and evil, I think, in urban areas or areas where they are not the norm. Raised in the deep south, guns are just part of life. They are nothing to be afraid of, and they are not evil. They do command respect, though, being dangerous things.

I live now in an evacuation area. If I have to evacuate, my gun will be a primary thing to put in my evacuation pack. As well as cash. Both are necessary to be safe and secure in a disaster area. My brother takes a couple of guns with him when he evacuates, as well as cash. Criminals swoop in during a disaster. I always travel on the road with my gun (if it's legal in the state I'm traveling through). If my car were to break down, I'd be a sitting duck w/o a gun and a cell phone.

[Rorey]

25. I want you on my side.

I actually own two guns of my own and have never shot either of them. My husband bought me one a few years ago and the idea was that we would go target shooting together. We just never did, but we really should. I fall into the "unfamiliar and uncomfortable" category you mentioned.

[7962]

51. Excellent statement. And a voice of experience.

But many here will dismiss pretty much everything you said.

[BeyondGeography]

19. It's becoming just another hobby

especially in NRA deregulated dream states. Skill levels have nowhere to go but down.

[Hoyt]

30. Yeah, I was raised around guns from an early age, but I grew up and

didn't want to be like the ignorant white wing racists who carry them.

[paleotn]

39. I wonder what would happen...

...if you pulled your gun, as you said, and in the dark shot one of your own family members, killing them. I've also been around firearms ALL my life, and because of that, I don't live in some Ralphie fantasy world, stroking my Red Rider.

[Honeycombe8]

45. I live alone, except for dogs (that WILL bark at the slightest noise).

Shooting someone in the dark who surprises you, and it turns out to be family, has happened a couple of times that I've read about.

This will happen to people who do stupid things like that...go into a dark room at night unannounced, when the person lives alone, to "surprise" them. Very stupid.

Then think of all the rapes and murders of women, particularly old women, that maybe wouldn't have happened, if the women had been armed and prepared to at least try to defend themselves.

The sword cuts both ways.

I'm not paranoid and don't look at the world with fear. But I recognize the vulnerable position I am in, as a woman who lives alone, and who has been targeted before. I also don't think a gun is the only answer. I just think women should think about these things and be prepared. A bat might be a good thing to have around (it extends your arm length), but you have to have strength to use it, and swing it fast so he doesn't grab it.

A shotgun is probably better in some ways than a pistol. Just the sound of cocking it would probably send any criminal jumping out a window to get away. And you don't have to have good aim. You can even cock it from another room, and the perp would hear it.

Dogs are also good, if they bark at small sounds. Mine are not guard dogs, but they are just naturally good WATCH dogs. They break into barks at sounds that I can't hear. Fair to say that no one can get close to the house without them hearing it.

Signs are also a good deterrent. Signs that you have a security system, or that warn the owner is armed. Outside lights.
Criminals tend to go for easy targets with the fewest deterrents.

I don't think it's wise to live a life of fear. But I don't want to be an easy mark just in case some weirdo teenager decides to go on a crime spree and hit the house down the road where "that lady lives alone."

[CousinIT]

13. Part two:

&feature=youtu.be

[Maraya1969]

31. The scenario where the man killed his wife thinking she was an intruder happened

in my family only there was an intruder in the house. My cousin killed his girlfriend by accident in the confusion of the scene. He has had to live with that he entire life.

[HAB911]

17. Barrel Strokers are just like Trump Voters

They don't care. They're wannabe cop/rambos. "If everyone one of those students just had a gun" things would be fine.

[stevepal]

22. This is a simpler way to illustrate how safe you are with a gun.

A 2010 survey of all uses of a gun that produced death (not counting police I think):

19,392 were gun suicides (68%)

8,275 were homicides (28%)

606 were "accidents" (2%)

230 were "justified homicides" (1%)

So if you buy a gun to protect yourself from somebody else with a gun trying to kill you, what are your odds of doing that? What are the odds that the gun you purchase will provide a means of bringing death to yourself or someone else?

SIMPLE AND STRAIGHTFORWARD. In the same way, it's pretty simple and straightforward to say that the more guns in circulation, the more deaths by guns. Simple math. The more cars on the highway, the more traffic accidents. The more arsenic sold, the more use of arsenic for whatever purpose.

This is one reason human beings were given a brain by an all-wise Creator. We were meant to use it.

[Hoyt]

32. Yes, and George Zimmrtman's murder of Trayvon Martin was counted as a defensive gun use of all

things.

[Maraya1969]

34. The gun strokers can't understand why England, Australia and every other industrilized

country has tiny fractions of gun deaths and no mass murders. It falls on deaf ears

[Adrahil]

23. I will say this... if someone is going to carry a gun...

They had better get some no-kidding good quality training and actually practice.

I had to get qualified with firearms for a project a few years ago. The class I took was about 1/2 active duty police. I was appalled at what terrible shots they were and how shitty their reactions were.

As shown in the video above, in stress situation, people panic. If they are not heavily trained, they pretty cannot react constructively in a such a situation.

In short, just carrying a gun is dangerous, unless you actually train in how to use it.

I have a concealed carry permit (a result of that project years ago). I almost never carry. In fact, I can only think of two times I did. One time a family friend was in a NASTY divorce, and she needed to go to her old home pick up some things. Her ex was not supposed to be there, but he had been stalking her and she was afraid. The police could not (or would not) help. I went along, armed, just in case. Her asshat ex showed up after we had gotten there, but besides being verbally abusive, there was a not trouble. The second time was with this same women. She believed he was stalking her, and she had to leave work late. SO, I escorted her home. Never saw asshat ex, though he later taunted her that he had seen her "fat white knight" (me). He was arrested a couple days later for stalking and violating a court order. He moved a week later, and she never had a problem again.

In neither case did I even so much as draw the weapon.

[Hoyt]

33. Most just want to know laws allowing them to kill and what to say

to police when they shoot an unarmed kid out of fear or they are caught intimidating someone.

[Libertarian_4_life]

24. Constant Training

Being one that carries, I can attest to the fact that one needs to constantly train in order to ACT instead of REACTING in a stressful situation. You take a group of people like this that have been driving 20 plus years, I can pretty much guarantee they would fail miserably if there where put into a stressful situation.

My wife used to get pretty made at me for practicing my driving skills. If the roads are wet or iced over, I'll purposely put myself into a skid. That way if and when I end up in an unintentional skid, I'll ACT. I did her the same way on our Goldwing. Without notice I would make a very abrupt lane change. She would instinctively grab my shoulders (worst place one can grab). But after training (and constant practice), now if I make an abrupt lane change on the motorcycle, she will instinctively grab my waste. Which is a perfect place to grab, leaving my shoulders alone so I can control the motorcycle.

Point being, practice is always a good idea.

However, as others have already pointed out, the deck was stacked against this test subject group.

[Hoyt]

36. "Libertarian?" You sure you are on the right site? That does explain gun love.

[Libertarian_4_life]

41. Inclusive

If democrats are the party of inclusivity that it touts itself to be, then yeah....I got the right site.

[Maraya1969]

37. Unless you practice in these type scenarios like the police your practice probably means nothing

A couple of the kids on this video had a lot of experience and were really good shots. The whole point is things are very different when there is chaos reigning.

[Hoyt]

46. Exactly. Plus, in most cases, a gunner has a gun to his head before he even knows something is

happening. The gun or two tucked in his pants, are useless. But it makes him feel powerful or something, so we have to put up with George Zimmermans walking around city streets on a Sunday afternoon.

[Mosby]

56. I would love to see how real cops perform.

Probably not much better.

[Maraya1969]

57. They can react but they shoot to kill in practically every situation like this

Or even if a black man says he has a legal permit to carry a gun. They are trigger happy

[treestar]

58. wow

Right wingers think so simplistically.

They never get the nuances