Why Do Hillary Supporters Lose Their Minds When You Criticize Her?

[GoLeft TV]

#AskROF: “Why is it that we can point out all the flaws of the GOP, but when we point out Hillary’s flaws, her camp vilifies us?”

Ring of Fire’s Farron Cousins answers this on Ring of Fire TV.

[Kip Humphrey]

1. Because they have no defense other than to attack.

[840high]

2. .that^ X100

[Baobab]

121. Things like the deception over trade policy are just impossible to explain away

read here Trading Lives: Democracy, Health Care and Trade in Services It explains how a Clinton era trade deal makes affordable health care very very difficult to attain now.

[lewebley3]

32. They are attacks only and you are helping GOP:

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

44. Third way rubbish.

[OwlinAZ]

49. You are correct.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

86. Wait, which is it. Is Sanders a lefty fringe-hair commie

or is he a Third Wayer too; as you assert in another ranting post?

[lewebley3]

78. Just the truth: Fame has gone to Sanders head: he got a swelled head

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

87. I guess you tole me...

[AgerolanAmerican]

108. That is an attack

When you say "you are helping GOP", you're not defending a position, you're attacking the other person's position. And so you have inadvertently proven the premise that the Clinton's only defense is to attack.

But even if your attack is successful, the questions don't go away. They just keep coming back later until they get answered.

What Clinton imagines to be a "vast right wing conspiracy" is really mostly just those same old unanswered questions that were left unanswered in lieu of attacking the questioner coming back again and again to haunt her. There's a Lady MacBeth aspect to this... out, damned question!

[840high]

115. .+1

[MisterP]

3. probably 3 factors--it becomes personal, it's seen as a nefarious Republican corruption

of independent (and ideologically-suspect) lefties against a woman persecuted for 40 years, and they value loyalty and "experience" over goals and results

[passiveporcupine]

30. I'm curious why,

with all the women in politics, why is it just this woman who has been persecuted for 40 years?

What is it about her that draws that kind of attack and criticism? Could it be something SHE is doing?

I'm not ignoring the fact that there have been a few crazy women in politics that get persecuted (Palin, Michelle Bachman), but that's a whole other issue.

[lewebley3]

33. They attack Hillary because she is a threat to the GOP: Many people hate woman

of power.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

45. Many people hate "third way" corrupt power.

[lewebley3]

76. Just another Sanders smear: Sanders by your def is corrupt too!

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

84. Oh, yes. You got me. Bernie is so corporate power.

If you're not even going to try this is going to be very funny.

[hollysmom]

109. it is not a sanders smear that she supports increasing the H1B visa people and the

money given to israel ..... those are from her own mouth, i.e. is only a smear if you think she is a liar.

[thereismore]

4. They live vicariously. When she breaks the "greatest glass ceiling", they do as well.

When she gets paid millions, they are.

Whe she is linked to bombing women in some far away countries, they are.

And that's why they get mad, because they would never do the things she had done, so how dare we criticize them (through criticizing her). We are unfair!!!

[Kip Humphrey]

35. yes (sadly)

[lewebley3]

40. The voters supporting Hillary are very poor: its rich white kids wanting

free college that are supporting Sanders.

[FailureToCommunicate]

42. That's rich...

[lewebley3]

80. She is gving all her money to the Dem party to help the poor

Sanders only cares about himself: he has given
nothing to other Dems.

If Trump get in: Sanders attacks on Hillary will cost the
poor dearly

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

46. You are blatantly telling falsehoods.

?w=652

[lewebley3]

81. No its true:Sanders is supported by mostly white males and white college kids

[senz]

90. On DU I'm pretty sure most Bernie supporters are middle-aged women

like me.

[hollysmom]

110. or old ones like me who went to college for free

or would not have been able to go in the 60's

[OwlinAZ]

54. German colleges are accepting applications

from American students Their college would be free and the American students would not be in debt to the financial industry for the rest of their lives. Apparently Germany thinks bright Americans would contribute to German society and enrich the educations of German students.
.

[Peace Patriot]

50. You've got it, thereismore! 71 year old woman here, long time Democrat.

The women you are talking about are among my family and friends. They see Clinton as a beleaguered woman with an errant husband who is triumphing over adversity, not as the fully funded operative of the banksters and the "military-industrial-prison" complex that she really is. They see the overwhelming facts about whose operative she is as a "rightwing conspiracy." They are fooling themselves big time. And I fervently hope that enough of them wake up in the remaining primary states to give Bernie Sanders the nomination or to prevent Clinton from reaching the magic number of delegates, so that there it at least a chance that the convention will do the right thing. She is also, in my opinion, unelectable. Her negatives are much too high. Unless the 'TRADE SECRET' voting machine corporations (or whoever controls them) are on her side, she will lose to Trump, or she will lose even bigger to a moderate Republican, if the Republicans manage to nominate one. Sanders, on the other hand, beats them all, and demolishes Trump--and has done so in national poll after national poll since January.

Women who think Clinton is going to be good for them, because she is a woman, are very wrong-headed. You are right--they are projecting.

[thereismore]

57. Thank you. Yes, projection is the technical word.

Bernie for peace!

[senz]

85. Best explanation I've heard, thereismore.

Her diehard followers have projected themselves, their struggles, and their suffering onto her, so every criticism, EVERY FACT, is another horrible, unfair attack on one who stands, in their minds, for long-suffering womanhood everywhere. It's similar to what the RCC did with Mary; Hillary has become an archetype of religious figure, in their minds and hearts. I think Mary is sometimes called Our Lady of Perpetual Suffering -- and this name is perfect for what Hill supporters have created with Hillary, as well. OLoPS.

They haven't made this psychological transfer with any other woman, and that is why they are strangely unmoved when we tell them we prefer a different woman, like Elizabeth Warren. Sen. Warren's gender doesn't count in the same way for them. If you support EW or any female, but not Hillary, you are sexist. They see EW only as support staff for Hillary. They are unable to see the profound ideological and ethical differences between EW and HRC, but they are aware of EW's strong standing with Democrats, which they convert into an unspoken endorsement of Hillary. (Entirely ignoring EW's contrasting ideology.)

The identification, the projection, is so profound that, as you brilliantly pointed out, everything that happens to Hill happens to them, as well. Her success is their success. Her victory over that terrible man, Bernie Sanders, is their victory over all the forces of patriarchal evil. It doesn't matter that he has always been a better feminist than Hillary. That's why they call every single criticism of Hillary "rightwing" regardless of the content of the criticism.

With Hill's female supporters, as we've seen here, this projection/identification even comes down to her physical appearance, how she's doing in the female attractiveness department. During debates and speeches, they coo about how she looks, what she's wearing, while completely ignoring what she says. If anyone dares to criticize her physical appearance, they go nuts. It is strictly verboten, an instant alert, surefire hide. Even photos of her that aren't attractive are perceived as unthinkable insults to the goddess. This also explains why so many of her followers, especially females, insist on using a very old photo of her as their avatar -- because in their minds she will always be eternally young and lovely, as they wish they could be. Imagine if Bernie supporters insisted on avatar photos of him as a young man! How bizarre that would be -- yet this is what Hill supporters do.

Her behavior, her dishonesty and lack of ethics, her horrible domestic and foreign policy mistakes, simply don't count; they are not really "her," in their minds. Their goddess, like Mary, is pure. Nothing, not even her own character, her own actions, can touch her.

But there is another group of Hillary supporters, and these are the ones who are either a) on the campaign payroll, b) subdued by her (and possibly the DNC's) political power and influence, and/or c) adherents to the ideology that promotes the corporate takeover of government (replacing democracy), the exploitation of the lower middle and lower classes, and a class society. They are essentially conservative authoritarian. They are not, by any stretch of the imagination, liberal/progressive. They use social issues divisively, as rightwing talk radio does, but turned inside out. So Bernie's supporters, even those of us (a majority, I think, on DU) who are female and feminist, are in their minds, young white sexist males. Bernie's supporters who are PoC (e.g. Nina Turner, Rosario Dawson, Killer Mike, Cornell West, and others) don't count. This is the cynical manipulation of serious social issues.

So there are at least two classic types of Hillary supporter. I hope someday this phenomenon will be recognized, analyzed, and dissected in the media.

One frightening parallel with Trump followers is a strong penchant for blind adherence, blind obedience, to an authoritarian leader. That is dangerous. So with these two, Trump and Hill, we, as a people, are in a precarious position.

[thereismore]

92. Thank for for a great long response! What a mess, huh?

There is no way we can talk to them. There is no logical argument we can bring. If they have their way, there will be a period of misery. At the end of it, will we still have a chance at this thing called global warming? Will the destruction of the middle class be irreversible? Are there forces that can stop her from attacking some country like Iran? I think that the republican House will really do it. They will impeach her for something. The server mess comes to mind. She will spend 4 years fighting "rw" smears and getting nothing done. It will be a terrible waste of time.

[yuiyoshida]

95. wish i could tweet this

perhaps if it were its own topic, I could.

[senz]

97. Pretty sure it's more than 144 characters, yuiyoshida.

But thanks!

[yuiyoshida]

98. make it its own topic

and I can (Even if you post it in the Sanders group.)

[senz]

99. Okay, I don't tweet, so this must be

something I don't know about. Can I help? Do you want me to post it as a topic in the Sanders group?

Let me know, it could be interesting ... and fun.

[yuiyoshida]

100. Yup, go to the sanders group

give it a tittle and post it there. Let me know and i will tweet it out into the twitterverse!

[senz]

132. Sorry I never got around to it, yuiyoshida.

A lot of things came up and then I started having second thoughts about it, about getting more hides, etc. And now it seems too late because the primaries are over and many of us are leaving this place.

Unless I posted it as an OP in the Hillary area of JPR. That could work, and I wouldn't get any hides.

But it still seems "late." I'm kind of torn, because if it has truths about Hillary's diehard followers, then perhaps it's still relevant.

Let me know what you think.

[yuiyoshida]

133. JPR sounds great...

go with it... in the meantime...

This song has been stuck in my head all day!!

[senz]

134. Thank you! I'd never heard of Chu's Day before.

What happy music, what an upbeat girl band! I couldn't understand the lyrics, but the music and performance said it all.

For me, it sounds like a nice farewell to this place and looking forward to safer, more compatible sharing at the new place. I may look in here periodically, but this move seems just right for progressives.

[yuiyoshida]

136. CHU's day is one of my favorite girl bands, here is their top hit ...

[senz]

137. Very lively, expressive. They're good!

Thanks for introducing me to Chu's day, yuiyoshida.

[yuiyoshida]

140. most welcome

[BillZBubb]

107. Nicely stated. There definitely seems to be that sort of blind adoration

and transference. As you say, this is dangerous.

[pangaia]

113. I just saw this, a week later.

An absolutely stunning analysis and 100% perfect.

It now makes it so clear to me... Thank you for all the time it must have taken....

[840high]

116. Excellent post.

[emsimon33]

120. Excellent analysis

[Gene Debs]

123. it's an interesting take on it, and I think you make some really good points. I would disagree about

one thing, though...While I think you're right about there being a shocking parallel with Trump supporters—namely the proclivity to adhere to what essentially amounts to a personality cult—I think there's a critical difference in the nature of that loyalty...I think Trump's supporters are supporting everything that he very clearly is; whereas Clinton's supporters are supporting something that they like to pretend that she is, even when she clearly and demonstrably isn't. Trump's supporters are into the reality of what he is; Clinton's are infatuated with their fantasy of her.

Wanna take bets on whether I'll ever get an answer from The_Casual_Observer or any other Clinton supporter? I'm guessing no.

[senz]

124. I don't think they fully understand what has happened to them

so they probably can't explain it. It's easier for us to see from the outside.

I agree with you about Trump supporters vs. Clinton supporters. The Clinton fantasy is doubly scary because she is so different from what they think she is. It's like they're hypnotized.

It's reassuring that most Americans don't like either of them.

[Avalux]

125. You nailed it. Thank you for telling the truth. n/t

[notadmblnd]

128. I really don't see a big difference between Trump and Clinton

As far as Trumps bigotry and sexist attitude goes- it is at least out in the open and you know what a despicable human being you are dealing with. Clinton? She's just better at hiding hers. I think she will lead us into just as much war, death and destruction as Trump would. I think she will be just as hurtful to women, immigrants and the downtrodden as Trump would also. As far as the Supreme Court goes- I think she'll nominate pro corporate conservatives just as Trump would.

We know they're friends and that they socialize enough that they attend each other's family functions such as weddings. We also know that Bill Clinton encouraged Donald Trump to run as a Republican. And let's face it- when it comes to friends- it is human nature to seek out people like yourself. So, I think your avatar sends a very apt message.

[RufusTFirefly]

131. That's one outstanding post, senz!

One of the best I've read on DU in quite a while.
And given the trajectory of the site, it may be one of the last I read here.

Thank you for expressing things so clearly, calmly, and completely!

[NJCher]

138. wow, senz

I can't say as I've really thought about this, but what you say makes so much sense. Lots to think about here!


Cher

[JDPriestly]

5. Because they can't argue issues because Hillary's stances on them are weak and

unreliable. Hillary cannot be trusted. Bernie can. They know that.

Hillary supporters are Democrats on social issues.

But they are not the strong Democrats that Bernie supporters are on economic issues.

Hillary is OK but not sterling on social issues. She was slow to agree with a lot of the liberal stances on say, gay marriage, but she is sort of there.

But she is very weak on economic issues. She is vague on how she plans to deal with the huge disparity in wealth or the sleaziness and exaggerated risk-taking in our financial sector; she says universal, single-payer health insurance is impossible (because the big money her donors have come in part from the profits on our current system most likely); she is for getting some of the corporate money out of campaign finance but hedges so you know she doesn't want to get all of it out. And when it comes to the TPP, she is totally talking out of both sides of her mouth. It's those trade tribunals that are the problem as well as the lack of labor protections. She misses that because underneath it all, she is pro-TPP. In other words, her views on the issues are sleazy compared to Bernie's.

On top of that, to me, she projects nervousness, has a problem controlling her temper although she can master it when she really puts her mind to it and has shown poor judgment on many issues.

I live in California. If she is the candidate, there are enough people here who will vote for her for many reasons so that my vote will make no difference to her. A lot of the Bernie supporters I talk to will never vote for her.

She is a big problem for Democrats.

I have been a Democrat all my life. And I feel that the Democratic Party is moving away from me into indifference on economic issues, complacency and irrelevancy, and it makes me very sad. Hillary is a symptom of that move away from caring about the economic reality of so many Democratic voters. It will translate into low turnout. If Trump is the Republican candidate, we may get a decent Democratic showing at the polls, but, unless Bernie is our candidate, Democrats will be turning out to vote against Trump, not to vote for Hillary.

In some ways, incredibly, Trump is appealing to those who are economically frustrated more than Hillary is. That is really bad news for Democrats.

[rtracey]

8. yup it is

Because, Sanders will not win, and the dilemma will be vote for a democrat or trump.... that is going to suck for the Sanders movement, because, either they stay home and have Trump win or vote for Trump and j=have trump win. Many have said Bernie or bust.... well it will be the Sanders movements fault when Trump put in Cruz as supreme court.....

[JDPriestly]

9. Actually, it will be the problem of the Hillary voters.

A lot of Sanders voters are sick of being the ones who are expected to compromise and vote for the conservatives.

Maybe if Hillary voters get a taste of a true conservative, they will decide to vote for a liberal next time.

[Stryder]

41. Yup. Look out Bernie supporters.

You are being set up.
The DNC offers up yet another corporate friendly candidate (to put it kindly), keeping their thumb firmly
on the scale. A candidate with a metric shit ton of baggage custom made for attack adds, weather it's
bullshit or not makes not one wit of difference. You know they have it all mapped out. Independents won't
vote for her and may not show for the down ticket contests. And Republicans will crawl out of their death beds
across broken glass then swim through lemon juice to vote against her.
But it will all be the fault of those Goddamned Sandernistas.
I mean, is this not as obvious as it appears to me?

[senz]

88. Yup. We need to pay attention to how we're being manipulated.

Thanks, Stryder.

(And since you have a low comment count, choose your words wisely, as you did here, so no one can alert on you. We need insightful people.)

[Stryder]

94. Low post #

But me lurky long time.
Thanks for the heads up but I see how things have gotten around here.
I'm sure one of these days someones going to get to me.
But not today. Probably... It is early though.
Peace.

[Seeinghope]

129. Is that phot in the bottom corner a photo shopped photo of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump blended

Together?

[senz]

130. Seems to be. I cribbed it from another DUer yesterday.

It's admittedly weird looking but it makes a relevant point that people need to think about.

[Dustlawyer]

106. ^^^THIS^^^!!!!!

It can never be Hillary's or their fault, so it must be ours. They tell us that it is winner take all on the Democratic platform and refuse to work to bring us together, yet it will be our fault. Well, the ones that believe that way can kiss my __________s! I will vote for her as Trump is just as corrupt and has zero experience. I see a big war with Iran in our future because of this. they will have Bibi Netanyahu make the first move and she will be "forced" to defend one of our closest allies for crap they start!

[SheilaT]

11. It is up to Hillary and her campaign to convince

Sanders' supporters that she is a good choice in November. Just saying we have to vote for her or it's OUR fault if Trump is elected, doesn't cut it.

I want to vote FOR someone I actually want to be President. No more "lesser of two evils".

And as always, all we ever get from the Hillary crowd is how awful it would be for Trump to be in the White House. NEVER any actual statements of the positive things she would do, the progressive policies she would implement, the pulling back of our military around the world. Nope. We can be assured that if she's in office we'll have more invasions, more soldiers overseas, and cuts in the VA. There will be some sort of "compromise" on Social Security and Medicare, and you can bet she'll preside over further erosion of a woman's right to control her own body.

[Gene Debs]

21. Don't forget more fracking and more shitty, job-killing trade agreements.

[lewebley3]

39. Hillary and Bill created 22million jobs and pulled 7.4million out of proverty

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

47. I believe the luck of the 90s was not their doing.

[markpkessinger]

67. Are you counting the jobs lost as a result of NAFTA? n/t

[lewebley3]

77. Jobs were not lost under the Clinton's: They were lost under Bush:

The GOP are responsible for the crash: they deregulated and
cut taxes: If the Clinton's were in office they would have
taken steps to stop any job losses.

The country was warned what would happen if Bush came
to power but Sanders supporters decided they were to
good for Gore.

[markpkessinger]

91. That's because of the timing . . .

. . . it was still SLINTON's legislation that led to it!

[Enthusiast]

48. She has moved far enough to the left.

[maindawg]

15. No more lesser of two evils

42% of the electorate are independent and they are motivated they are angry with the billionaires and they hate her. They will vote for a woman named Jill Stein instead. 42 % along with some pissed off RS and DS wins . President Stien huh?

[senz]

89. Some of them might write in Bernie's name.

You never know what people might do if they're fed up enough.

[HeartoftheMidwest]

17. Or as many WI voters will do, go to the polls and write Bernie Sanders in..

..IF he's not the nominee, and also be sure to vote all the down ticket races, especially for Russ Feingold, for example. Realizing Ms. Clinton isn't worth voting for does NOT mean we won't be responsible voters for every other office. And we will encourage everyone to get to the polls.

[haikugal]

58. No it won't. It will be the democratic party's fault for being corrupt and pushing a dangerously

Flawed candidate. That's where the fault lies.

[lewebley3]

34. We have argued the issues on behalf Hillary very well: Sanders has no

case for him to become the leader of the Dem party when he
is not a Dem.

[ablamj]

68. And why should those of us

who are also not Dem vote for Hillary?

[lewebley3]

74. You should vote for Hillary to protect the poor: The GOP won't

It that is not a good reason then you are not progressive
enough to be a Dem: Sanders people are rich kids that
want free college.

[ablamj]

93. I'm not rich

And Hillary will not help the poor either. Got anything else?

[hollysmom]

111. her husband was a disaster for the poor.

and she is thinking of putting him in charge of jobs - probably jobs for all those new H1B visa people.

[rtracey]

6. because

Because we act like Sanders supporters, except Clinton supporters are not as naive as Sanders supporters are.

[AgerolanAmerican]

28. "Because they have no defense other than to attack."

Posted by another poster before your post.

Even when specifically called out on it you guys simply can't help yourselves.

And if you're correct - that you are not naive - then you are with open eyes supporting a war criminal and the single most corrupt politician in the business today.

If that's the America you want, you can count me out.

[lewebley3]

36. Hillary supporters have only defended themselves against the sick Bernie Bros

[turbinetree]

7. -------------Farron Cousins nails it-----------------

Honk--------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

[Kall]

10. I think it's a function of compartmentalization.

Go on Twitter and you can just follow the people who you like and agree with. You can choose the news outlet that gives you what you want - if you're conservative you can watch Fox, if you're liberal, you can watch MSNBC. Even on DU, you see it - if you want to shut out differing opinions, you can go to the Hillary group or Bernie group - and then go on "open" forums to argue, having had your beliefs reinforced unchallenged. If you go on Daily Kos, I guess there's some kind of unspoken rule that I didn't realize - you're not allowed to post comments against the candidates in diaries that are marked "for Bernie" or "for Hillary". I don't think it's healthy, but there it is.

After enough of this, it's natural to have your beliefs reinforced without being challenged, and believe that all criticism is invalid and from the other party. I went into a Daily Kos diary that was complaining about why people don't believe Hillary is trustworthy and honest. I pointed out that it was in large part because of her policy reversals, and incidents like making up stories of being under Bosnian sniper fire to boost her foreign policy resume, and standing by the lie (and lying about the people who accompanied her who said it never happened) until the video came out. In response, I was attacked as purveying a "right-wing smear" with the Bosnian sniper story that she made up herself, and mocked with photos of dogs and pandas. My comment was then flagged and removed - if you want the root of the problem, it probably begins with the fact that truthful statements about Hillary's credibility in response to a question is a site violation. Hillary attacks Bernie's single-payer health care plan using Republican talking points (Eek! Taxes! Don't mention elimination of private insurance costs!) and hasn't presented any form of plan of her own, but it doesn't seem to shake her supporters' faith in the idea that she's highly committed to universal health care.

I just don't understand people who do this. I don't have a problem admitting that as reprehensible as Trump's campaign is in other ways, he's arguing the right positions on free trade and being less militarily interventionist, and those positions have real resonance this year. Hillary is going to be ridiculed when she tries to argue that she's really against the TPP, based on her record for both selling it and every other trade agreement. And rightly so. That doesn't mean I like Trump, and no, "he makes his ties in China" is not going to be an effective response - his will be that he doesn't make the rules by which his business needs to compete, and it'll be valid.

[lewebley3]

37. Not a function of compartmentalization: Infact Hillary is over all the best choice:

She understands the world that she will walk into when she becomes
President.

[Kall]

43. Wow, so evidence-based.

Now I'm convinced the candidate who spent years selling the TPP as the "gold standard", and advocated overthrowing Libya after Iraq, will lead to the promised land.

[lewebley3]

73. Its your opinion only: Hillary has been successful and reliable with about everything

she does. She is not in favor or TTP and when the Clinton's were in
office we had peace and prosperity: 22m new jobs: 7.4m people pulled
out of poverty.

[Kall]

82. Oh please.

Today's economy is not the economy of the 1990s, when NAFTA and globalization were just getting going, and before the tech bubble burst. And Hillary Clinton spent years selling the TPP as the "gold standard", before she said she was kind-of, maybe against it, just before the Democratic primary. You really believe the candidate who told you she was under Bosnian sniper fire on her last campaign trail, when she says she's against the TPP on this one?

[lewebley3]

83. Again no jobs lost under the Clintons: only under Bush: just a the facts

Last edited Fri May 6, 2016, 11:39 AM - Edit history (1)

[hollysmom]

112. she helped with the TPP when it started - do you thionk she does not know what she is doing?

she is so ignorant about what is being written? She was 100% for the TPP before Bernie started making headway with it. DOn't make me have to look up the date she switched, I think it was about March or The end of FEB.

[flobee1]

70. She can't even understand Indiana

States she wants to put coalminers out of business, then goes to Indiana to cort the coal miner vote.
Weathervane indeed!

[lewebley3]

72. Hillary didn't run any ads in Indiana: She is saving her money for the general

She done with Sanders

[Jester Messiah]

12. Because "OMG you're helping Trump!!1!"

Or some other such fatuous nonsense.

[tinrobot]

14. In some cases... yeah, you are.

[Jester Messiah]

16. Bullshit.

If anyone the ones helping Trump are the ones insisting on fielding Hillary, the weakest possible candidate against him. If you think she's getting a dose now, just you wait.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

60. Wrong!

It's purile bullshit, but you're right on everything else.

[tinrobot]

13. Because personal attacks on other Democrats is unproductive

Sure, give me all the policy differences between the candidates you want. We need vigorous debate.

But when it stoops to personal attacks and insults, then it is counter-productive. It just feeds GOP schoolyard-level talking points.

I'd like to think we're above that as a party, but apparently not.

[Kall]

18. So...

... when somebody brings up the fact that Hillary just lies through her teeth about something like being under sniper fire in Bosnia, and lies about the people who accompanied her and said it never happened, right up until the video comes out, is that a personal attack? Do you think someone with that level of respect for the truth and the public is going to be levelling with people, if she's selling a free trade deal, or selling the latest military intervention?

[tinrobot]

22. That's a lot of projection...

Where did I mention Bosnia?

edit : Just for clarity

A personal attack is committed when a person substitutes abusive remarks for evidence when attacking another person's claim or claims. This line of "reasoning" is fallacious because the attack is directed at the person making the claim and not the claim itself.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/personal-attack.html

[Kall]

23. Oh, brother.

The amount of artillery fire of "amplifying a right-wing swear" that has been deployed against people who cite incidents like her Bosnia story as an example of her basic dishonesty and lack of respect for the truth is immense. Taking six-figure payments from industries you'd be in charge of regulating when you're mapping out another run for President is horrible judgment. Things like honesty and judgment matter too, not just "policy differences".

[tinrobot]

24. Those are good points....

... that have absolutely nothing to do with my original point about personal attacks.

[Kall]

26. The point is

that when people bring up those things, they're continuously accused of "spreading right-wing smears", or making things, as you would say, "personal" rather than principle-based. Policy differences are not the only issue that should be considered, as you implied.

And on some level, I suppose it does "feed GOP attacks" to point out that Hillary Clinton is dishonest and exhibits poor judgment (without using "right-wing smears" a la Vince Foster). But that's the fault of Hillary Clinton, not the people who inconveniently point those things out.

[Hoppy]

19. --- because they realize there is no progressive substance to her. Its like when an atheist

criticizes a believer. They go bezerk because their entire belief framework is demolished. If it can't be replaced, they are then lost and without bearings.

[TIME TO PANIC]

20. K & R!

I wonder whom Farron was talking about toward the end of the video?

[yuiyoshida]

25. K&R

Tweeted

[redstatebluegirl]

27. The ame way Bernie folks do when we criticize him.

Neither side seems to admit they are overly sensitive.

[trueblue2007]

29. Why Do BERNIE Supporters Lose Their Minds When You Criticize Him?

[lewebley3]

38. Sanders has been crushed by Hillary: Sanders is not facing the facts its over

[UMTerp01]

51. I could say the same thing about Bernie Sanders supporters

Always an excuse. I am a Hillary supporter and do see her flaws. Trade policies, ties to Wall Street, dumb decision with the emails and there are others. Yup. Guess what? I still voted for her.

[Gomez163]

52. Because you Sanders people are now trespassers on this election.

[truebluegreen]

62. Trespassers?

So, your candidate does not need our votes? Alrighty then.

[86derps]

65. No Hillary Vote

Calling Sanders a trespasser makes me realize I should not vote for Hillary. I am a trespasser to dishonesty. I am a trespasser to establishment politics. I can not vote for Hillary even at the expense of the white house. You just helped to insure that.

[Gomez163]

66. We never had your vote. Try another one.

[86derps]

71. Not now

If your calculus is that my vote could not be earned by Hillary then you are mistaken. Assuming that I and others would not vote for the lesser of two evils is incorrect. If Hillary would truly adopt a platform that appealed to progressive democrats I could vote for her, however when you mock the progressive position it proves that Hillary has no plan to earn my vote.

I'm at the point that I would rather have Hillary, the establishment democratic candidate lose to crazy Trump to show the democratic party that they must develop a truly progressive platform if they want to win federal elections and state elections for that matter.

Just remember who told you so. We are watching.

[Skittles]

69. lol

no xray glasses needed here

[Thinkingabout]

53. Why do Sanders supporters lose their minds when facts are pointed out about Sanders?

[Skittles]

55. get fucking real

the swooners of ALL politicians - in particular, Obama, Bernie and Hillary, go nuts over any criticism....stop acting like it's strictly a Hillary thing

[onecaliberal]

56. Her flaws resemble the republicans a whole bunch.

[apcalc]

59. Have you stopped beating your wife?

[Land of Enchantment]

61. Because the truth hurts. Farron nailed it. nt

[Jackie Wilson Said]

79. Conservatives (what a laugh it is to call a middle class person that) believe

all kinds of things about Drumpf or Cruz or Boehner or Carson or W or Reagan that are not true, never have been.

Conservatives (still laughing) believe that higher taxes on corps and rich people hurts THEM, themselves.

They believe all kinds of crazy things because of propaganda.

Half of what independents who despise Hillary believe is also bullshit, right wing propaganda.

Not all, she is my least favorite choice for the WH and I have a long list of things I dont like about her, but most of what I hear others say here and on the radio is just bullshit they heard indirectly from the right wing conspiracy machine.

[Stellar]

96. I voted for Bernie this past March...

but it appears the same thing happens the other way around too. Most Sanders supporter go crazy too.

[Buzz Clik]

101. I am #22 on the Sanders Group ban list. I was banned for criticizing him.

So... yeah. What the fuck ever.

[840high]

118. I am 193 on the Clinton

ban list and I did not even mention her.

[Trust Buster]

102. Obvious answer. She is our nominee and attacking her at this point only helps Trump.

[silvershadow]

103. Her actual flaws as a candidate become "trashing her". I submit:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107130675#post6

[bjo59]

104. Something to do with personally identifying with her? Experiencing attacks on her record as if the

attacks were on a member of the family? I don't know - there's a lot of that kind of identification with celebrities in American society... maybe it's related to that phenomenon?

[Lil Missy]

105. OMG, that's really rich coming from a Sanders supporter.

[bbgrunt]

114. Gotta agree with Farron's comments. This primary has really

shown the true colors of those we thought were progressives. It's really sad because it just shows that they are selling out to money/power themselves while claiming it has no effect on Hillary.

[Carolina]

117. Because

the truth hurts and they can't handle it

[840high]

119. They have an image of her which

they don't want destroyed with facts.

[CreekDog]

122. False assertion. I'm a supporter and I haven't lost my mind over a criticism.

[AuntPatsy]

126. Honestly both sides of the coin holds such personalities littered throughout....

[upaloopa]

127. Because your criticisms are mostly untrue.

I get that people hate her and people don't like her. That doesn't mean everything you think about her is true.

Realize it is your opinion as seen through a paradigm that you invented.


If you take a board like this where 80% of the people don't like Hillary, you will never get a realistic picture of her or her life. You'll get lies supported by more lies and more lies. A group think grows and the group believes in their own lies.

[Uncle Joe]

135. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, GoLeft TV.

[Darb]

139. Only when it is imaginary teabagger bullshit.

Are these the bernie death throws? I think they are. Very unappealing.