Just War

[yallerdawg]

[OilBurnerBob]

1. Talk's cheap...

I couldn't listen to that crap from a president who perpetuates the very thing he preaches against. FUCKING Hypocrite!

[yallerdawg]

2. Perpetuates?

We left Iraq (on the previous presidents schedule).

Everything President Obama describes is the world we live in today - although still trying to close Guantanamo.

He didn't invade and occupy Somalia, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iran, Iraq - what has Obama perpetuated?

We are fighting the war he described - and the small people with agendas of hate are killing innocent people around the world. How is Obama responsible for that?

[Plucketeer]

5. So - invasion and occupation is what defines war for you?

Drones and carrier-launched attackers are what? - mere persuaders? Granted, Mr Nobel didn't start the incursions into Iraq and Afghanistan, but I remember the pre-election declaration that he was gonna END these illegal wars the day he took office. Could he not have done that? How many American servicefolks would've been spared after January 20th of '09?
Yeah, we've not had "invasions" of the countries you spell out, but we SURE to hell have had a hand in them in some way, shape or fashion. Of course, why should we stop this non-involvement? These realms of conflict are the PERFECT proving grounds for each new product and technology from our military industry. It's a way to hone that stuff in real world situations. Product testing you just can't buy with simulations.

[yallerdawg]

6. You want to blame this on Military-Industrial Complex?

Good people provide humanitarian relief, and the extremist jihadists cut their heads off.

You seem to like the libertarian view of isolationism. Disengagement from the world. Unilateral disarmament, 'cause it's the right thing to do, especially fiscally.

That just doesn't seem to be a view America has taken in a very long time.

[Plucketeer]

7. Yeah - silly me.

I forget about our prime industry as world mercenaries. My kids have kids that are JUST THE RIGHT AGE to serve as shrapnel absorbers. Sure hope they get to make me proud!

BTW - I volunteered to serve in Vietnam.

[yallerdawg]

8. I hold that the Vietnam War...

did exactly what it was supposed to do - until we didn't want to do that anymore.

The Viet Cong were there before we were. European colonialism, France, Japan, China, Russia...all influential participants.

The Khmer Rouge killed millions.

Southeast Asia, with us long gone, continued with death and destruction.

Maybe our need is to have a reason for the existence of evil and bad things in this world. A guilt and an innocence. Someone to blame.

When it is very simple - some of us value life, and some of us don't.

A lot of the evil in this world comes from when we turn a blind eye away. We can do something to make it better.

Will we?

[jwirr]

3. This was not a Just War when it was started on a pack of lies.

And I don't think you can turn a just war into one if it is continued for many lifetimes.

Somewhere in all my junk boxes I have a Lutheran Church a magazine that contains their study on just wars that they did back during the Vietnam War. It was a very good study that actually came down on the side of the protesters. I wish I could find it back.

Nothing we have done since WWII has any resemblance to a just war.

[yallerdawg]

4. If we'd just leave the extremist jihadists alone...

we'd all live happily ever after in peaceful bliss?

No worries about their activities? They are our victims? If they slaughter or dislocate millions of Middle Easterners we should do nothing?

The Bosnian War where we ended ethnic genocidal cleansing with just air power was not a just war?

When we blame the victims, we lose elections. And then, we get war.

[Unknown Beatle]

10. The US destabilized a region of the ME

precisely because we invaded Iraq. But, according to you, what's done is done and we need to keep up the good fight by further destabilizing some areas of the ME.

The answer is to welcome those who have been dislocated from their countries into some western countries, it is, after all, the fault of western powers that destabilized those countries where people are fleeing.

Not only in the Middle East, but also Northern Africa.

Remember Hillary with her happy comment about Muammar Gaddafi's death? There's a reason Libya is a quagmire, the US continues meddling in other nations affairs.

[swilton]

9. Humanitarian intervention is a pretext used by empires

and employing it is not a valid / acceptable rationale - according to international law. The wars in the Balkans caused greater civilian casualties than were prevented. The intervention in the Balkans established the precedent for NATO to be used offensively.....

As someone posted - this is just hot air. Just War theory has long been discredited by political scientists and the rationale - that the theory is based upon unverifiable norms and is applied ethnocentrically still stands.