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Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 06:41 PM Aug 2014

Hamas stopping human shields from getting medical treatment in Israeli Field hospitals: USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/08/11/israel-gaza-humanitarian-aid/13887853/

Hamas is not permitting Palestinians to be treated at an Israeli military field hospital and its blood bank politely declined Israeli blood donation offers.

... An Israeli women's organization that is donating large amounts of items for new mothers and their babies did not want its name mentioned for fear Hamas officials who govern Gaza will reject the contributions if they know they were donated almost entirely by Jewish Israelis. So they are being delivered by a third party.
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Hamas stopping human shields from getting medical treatment in Israeli Field hospitals: USA Today (Original Post) Bill USA Aug 2014 OP
Israel murdered 448 of their neighbors children 4now Aug 2014 #1
The human shield tactic seems to be working - Indian tv catches Hamas firing rocket near Gaza hotel Bill USA Aug 2014 #2
Blaming the victim is an old (and sad) tactic 4now Aug 2014 #4
anybody with a modest intellect can see you are twisting the meaning of my statement. I blame Hamas Bill USA Aug 2014 #11
Israel killed over 400 of their neighbors children 4now Aug 2014 #14
again - The human shield tactic is working - Bill USA Aug 2014 #19
would Israel be dropping bombs if no missiles were fired into Israel from Gaza? didn't you leave Bill USA Aug 2014 #20
Israel finds whatever excuses it needs to murder it's neighbors children. 4now Aug 2014 #21
Here's an interesting post: "The Double Identity of an "Anti-Semitic" Commenter." from Common Dreams Bill USA Aug 2014 #13
Nice way to pervert an article intaglio Aug 2014 #3
They are getting desperate 4now Aug 2014 #5
ignorant remarks and personal attacks will garner no respect from anyone. I gave the link to entire Bill USA Aug 2014 #12
But you used a false and misleading title 4now Aug 2014 #15
LOL! Now you're on to propaganda rule 2: "Tell a lie & keep repeating it. Noncritical thinkers will Bill USA Aug 2014 #17
what is false about the title? you thnk USA Today is lieing about Hamas keeping Palestinians from Bill USA Aug 2014 #18
What was ignorant about reading the whole article intaglio Aug 2014 #16
Hamas using human shields may be urban myth Cicada Aug 2014 #6
Another way to look at it . . . markpkessinger Aug 2014 #7
see cmt 2, re Indian tv video. Bill USA Aug 2014 #9
they "don't feel guilty" riverwalker Aug 2014 #8
you are trying to turn things around aren't you? It is Hamas that stated they intend to kill every Bill USA Aug 2014 #10

4now

(1,596 posts)
1. Israel murdered 448 of their neighbors children
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 06:53 PM
Aug 2014

From the posted article:
"The United Nations has tallied more than 1,900 Gazan deaths, including 448 children and nearly 1,000 other civilians. An additional 250,000 Gazans have been left homeless, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry."

4now

(1,596 posts)
4. Blaming the victim is an old (and sad) tactic
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 07:16 PM
Aug 2014

Blaming the victim describes the attempt to escape responsibility by placing the blame for the crime at the hands of the victim. Classically this is the rapist claiming his victim was "asking for it" by, for example, wearing a short skirt. Until recently, blaming the victim was largely how most rape victims experienced the investigation and litigation into claims of rape - often leading to women and men becoming unwilling to report it. It was not uncommon for a victim of rape to face a defense attorney who asked the victim about her (or, in the rare cases that a male victim went to court, his) sexual history, sexual preferences, drinking habits and even social status, all to paint her as less of a victim. In 2013, a Montana Judge said a 14 year old rape victim was equally responsible for her own rape because she "seemed older than her chronological age"[1]. A perfect example of blaming the victim.

Denying the victim is similar, but has a slight difference in that the perpetrator attempts to assert that he or she is the real victim. Denying the victim is generally less of a one-on-one scenario, and more topical, ie. "The real victims of the supposed 'mistreatment of women' are the children who have to grow up in homes where their mother wants to work instead of care for them." Denying the victims, in this sense, is often an attempt at historical revisionism, to make those charged with the crimes, look more or even totally innocent in the light of modern society.

Denial of the victim can also take the form of minimizing the number of victims or the severity of the offense. For example, the Roman Catholic Church played this game, when trying to claim the systematic child abuse by some priests were simply isolated events both individually and by priests at large. They also pushed the issue that the boys should not be described as "children," but "young men" to minimize the sense of how horrific these rapes were. Both blaming the victim and denying the victim are specific instances of neutralization.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Blaming_the_victim

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
11. anybody with a modest intellect can see you are twisting the meaning of my statement. I blame Hamas
Wed Aug 20, 2014, 02:50 PM
Aug 2014


for the deaths of Palestinians. This is quite easy to see. You are using the first rule of disinformation/propaganda - twisting the meaning of statements of those who disagree with you.


4now

(1,596 posts)
14. Israel killed over 400 of their neighbors children
Wed Aug 20, 2014, 03:20 PM
Aug 2014

You can choose to blame whoever you want but we all know who dropped the bombs.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
20. would Israel be dropping bombs if no missiles were fired into Israel from Gaza? didn't you leave
Wed Aug 20, 2014, 05:00 PM
Aug 2014

something out?

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
3. Nice way to pervert an article
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 07:12 PM
Aug 2014

Selectively quoting and putting up a false and misleading headline. Typical apologist rubbish from an Israeli groupie.

4now

(1,596 posts)
5. They are getting desperate
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 07:20 PM
Aug 2014

because there is really no way to justify the slaughter of civilians on such a level.
So they have to twist the news.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
12. ignorant remarks and personal attacks will garner no respect from anyone. I gave the link to entire
Wed Aug 20, 2014, 03:11 PM
Aug 2014

article for everyone to read.

I pointed out a telling bit of information that I thought deserved attention - that Hamas is stopping Palestinians from getting medical help that is being provided by Israeli field hospitals. It seems a contemptible thing to do, but consistent with a group who is using the human shield tactic to advance their own agenda.

The entire article goes into the problem Israelis have, who want to provide help to Palestinians but know if the contributions can be seen by Hamas as coming from Israelis, that Hamas would not let the contributions get to the Palestinians it is intended for. this is entirely consistent with Hamas actions to prevent Palestinians from getting the medical help provided by Israeli field hospitals. There is nothing misleading in my headline. ... though I guess you hope by claiming it was, it would magically make your attempted deception true.

try to make your arguments without attempting to personally denigrate those who disagree with you. You only denigrate yourself in the process.. If you have sound arguments you wouldn't need to resort to patently dishonest tactics to make your case.


Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
17. LOL! Now you're on to propaganda rule 2: "Tell a lie & keep repeating it. Noncritical thinkers will
Wed Aug 20, 2014, 04:39 PM
Aug 2014

eventually believe it must be true."

my previous comment:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=100345

[font size="3"]I pointed out a telling bit of information that I thought deserved attention[/font] - that Hamas is stopping Palestinians from getting medical help that is being provided by Israeli field hospitals. [font size="3"]It seems a contemptible thing to do, but consistent with a group who is using the human shield tactic to advance their own agenda. [/font]

The entire article goes into the problem Israelis have, who want to provide help to Palestinians but know if the contributions can be seen by Hamas as coming from Israelis, that Hamas would not let the contributions get to the Palestinians it is intended for. this is entirely consistent with Hamas actions to prevent Palestinians from getting the medical help provided by Israeli field hospitals. There is nothing misleading in my headline. ... though I guess you hope by claiming it was, it would magically make your attempted deception true.


I was the one who gave the readers the link to the article. At the risk of being obvious, giving the link IS A CLEAR INVITATION TO READ THE ARTICLE. I want people to read the article. There is no inconsistency between my title and the article's content. [font size="3"]Even if you wish there was, you can't change reality by wishing it to be different.[/font]


[blockquote style="background:#EEEEFF;"]
Title: __ Hamas is stopping Palestinians from getting medical treatment offered at Israeli field hospitals (taken from article*)

Article: __ Israeli's sending contributions to help Palestinians are worried that if Hamas sees the contributions are coming from Israelis Hamas will intercept them and won't let them get to the Palestinians they are intended for.


* Here's the sentence from the article "Hamas is not permitting Palestinians to be treated at an Israeli military field hospital and its blood bank politely declined Israeli blood donation offers."


There is no inconsistency here. (Sorry 'bout that)


Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
18. what is false about the title? you thnk USA Today is lieing about Hamas keeping Palestinians from
Wed Aug 20, 2014, 04:45 PM
Aug 2014

getting medical treatment in Israeli field hospitals?

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
16. What was ignorant about reading the whole article
Wed Aug 20, 2014, 03:46 PM
Aug 2014

and observing the source?

What is praiseworthy about mindless support for a criminal regime and deliberately selective quotation?

And if you believe that Hamas is the organisation stopping people from receiving medical attention I suggest you check the following article from a less biased source.
Ambulance driver Rami 'Ali recounts attacks
Also you might want to consider the IDF has plenty of past history for using Palestinians as human shields UN: Palestinian children tortured, used as human shields by Israel

Cicada

(4,533 posts)
6. Hamas using human shields may be urban myth
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 07:22 PM
Aug 2014

Can anyone name a reporter who has ever seen Hamas use civilians as shields? Has any person in Gaza ever said they were used as a shield? The headquarters building of the Israeli military in Jerusalem is adjacent to a hospital and there are apartments nearby because it's a city with many different buildings. Isn't the same true in Gaza? I think in a city like Gaza City many civilians will inevitably be near Hamas facilities. I don't think that is "using civilian shields" anymore than the Israeli Defense Force uses civilian shields in Jerusalem. I will change my view if anyone has evidence, but so far I have not seen evidence.

markpkessinger

(8,381 posts)
7. Another way to look at it . . .
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 07:34 PM
Aug 2014

. . . is that when nearly 2 million people are crammed into an area that is 25 miles long by 4 miles wide, there is very limited space available in which civilians wouldn't be at risk.

riverwalker

(8,694 posts)
8. they "don't feel guilty"
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:55 PM
Aug 2014

Why would they trust a military hospital with their children, the same military that considers them sub-human? I wouldn't trust the blood either, it has to be tested and preserved properly.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
10. you are trying to turn things around aren't you? It is Hamas that stated they intend to kill every
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 05:35 PM
Aug 2014

single Israeli - man, woman and child.

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