In Gaza, anger grows at Hamas along with fury at Israel

[Uncle Joe]

(snip)

"I don't know if they thought about it, and what would happen to us," Abdelaal says about Hamas' decision to attack Israel on Oct. 7. "We didn't receive any warning to leave."

Hamas has not tolerated dissent among Gazans in the 17 years it has ruled the tiny territory, choked by an Israeli-led blockade. But dissent against the Islamist militant group is now widespread and out in the open, voiced alongside Gazans' fury with Israel.

(snip)

To move forward, Swairjo thinks Hamas will have to change from an outlier opposition force to a participant in the internationally recognized Palestinian movement, the Palestine Liberation Organization, or PLO, which is committed to the goal of an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel.

"Hamas, they are smart enough to understand what's happening and what is coming in the future. Because of that, they will change," Swairjo says. "People will obligate them to change ... they will not accept to have another war, another catastrophe. People will not accept to continue this forever."

(snip)

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/08/1229749527/in-gaza-anger-grows-at-hamas

[The Magistrate]

1. This Is The Strategic Goal Israel Pursues, Sir

Not fantasies of extermination or expulsion, but rendering Hamas vulnerable to the anger of the people it has imposed suicidal misrule upon. In the long run, liquidation of Hamas can only come from its overthrow by the people of Gaza.

[Uncle Joe]

2. I can't recall ever seeing any evidence during Netanyahu's political career,

that he cared one iota about or regarded the Palestinian's general welfare as a natural or integral part of Israel's security.

It's too bad Netanyahu propped the target of the Palestinian people's anger up to begin with.



For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad.

(snip)

Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.

(snip)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/



I'm convinced Netanyahu will do whatever he thinks he can get away with, that's his only strategic goal.

Ultimately I believe he would love to see *rump come back to power, and that's a motivating factor as well, if tens of thousands of Gazans die, so be it.

[The Magistrate]

3. You Mistake Pragmatic Calculation For Concern, Sir

If the intent is to liquidate Hamas, this is how to do it. I expect the planing staffs of the IDF are competent. Regarding dead and maimed Palestinians, yes, doubtless Netanyahu cares no more about them does Hamas. One can hardly be expected to pick a side on that basis, it's not like anyone with a direct say in peace or war here gives a rat's ass about dead and maimed Palestinians....

He made a poor calculation, but one common on the right: seeing fundamentalist radicals, basically creatures of their own stamp, as useful tactical assets against secular groups able at least to pass for respectable. And some of this is mere scandalmongering addressed to an audience of naifs. Hamas was the de facto government in Gaza, still is. The PA has no power there, there would be no point negotiating anything regarding Gaza with them. And let's be clear on one other thing --- had Israel refused permits, you would be denouncing the blockade and starvation of Gaza, just more evidence of Israel's demonic cruelty, one more crime of Netanyahu's.

[Uncle Joe]

4. No, I consider concern to be intricately tied to if not inseparable to pragmatic calculation

If pragmatism is to be judged by the chances of any endeavor's success.

Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem aren't independent countries, they're occupied by Israel and as such Israel had/has outsized influence in determining the makeup of Palestinian representation.

Hamas was the De Facto government because Netanyahu wanted them to be, he didn't want a democratic Palestine so once the die was cast in 2006 with Hamas winning a plurality of the vote, the Palestinians in Gaza were trapped between the internal guards of Hamas and the IDF on the outside.

The result was a victory for Hamas, contesting under the list name of Change and Reform, which received 44.45% of the vote and won 74 of the 132 seats, whilst the ruling Fatah received 41.43% of the vote and won 45 seats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election#:~:text=The%20result%20was%20a%20victory,vote%20and%20won%2045%20seats.

[The Magistrate]

5. You Are Trying Much Too Hard, Sir

Let's refresh for a moment.

I stated that Israel's strategic goal is the liquidation of Hamas, and that the royal road to achieving this is the people of Gaza finding Hamas weakened to the point they can defy it with some expectation of safety and success. That is a pragmatic calculation, which does not require the least regard for the well-being of those your strategy wishes to move to some action they otherwise would not take, save to the degree it might make them more or less likely to do your will. It's one of the things which flows from the mirror-world which is war. If I feel it is to my advantage to appear virtuous while doing harm to my enemy, are the things I do to create this impression virtuous acts? After all, my purpose, furthering my ability to harm and force others to my will, is hardly a virtuous one.

Your response was that Netanyahu's aim was to do '...whatever he thinks he can get away with...' in a context which made clear your position was that what Netanyahu was meaning to get away with was killing hectacombs of Palestinians. That's not the point of what is being done in Gaza, and I expect you know this, whatever postures you strike in aid of the side you support. It's just too juicy to pass up, crying 'War Crime! Ethnic Cleansing! Genocide!' These are bad things, and to convince others your opponent is bad, bad, bad (the only chance your side has of looking good), it's a useful cry.

Hamas is the de facto government because a solid plurality of Gaza residents wanted them to be some years ago. It was mostly a protest vote against PA corruption; for some reason, men who strike pious postures are viewed as honest with money. Had Netanyahu responded to this by moving to annul the result of the election, again, you would be denouncing yet one more Israeli crime against Palestinian sovereignty and self-determination. Once you decide you detest someone, everything they do is offensive and wrong.

[Uncle Joe]

6. Somebody has to, you're not trying hard enough.

So Hamas comes to power with only a plurality of the vote in 2005 at 44.45% (I believe *rump won a bigger margin in 2016) and now 57% according to the OP poll of Gazans support Hamas' attack on October 7th!

If that's Netanyahu's "pragmatism" at eliminating Hamas, it's not working.

Having said that, genocide is working, starvation, disease are just beginning to take hold and 30,000 dead is just the pre-game warmup.

[The Magistrate]

7. Thank You For The Laugh, Dear, And Now I Must Go Tend My Pot-Roast

"Rover was killed by a Pontiac, and it was done with such grace and artistry, witnesses awarded the driver both ears and the tail. But I digress...."

[AloeVera]

8. Pot Roast?

I've lost my taste for food these days but you enjoy!

And yes, Netanyahu is just getting warmed up. He doesn't give a fecal matter what you or anybody else says or thinks including perhaps now the U.S. A raging war-mongering lunatic with psycho cabinet members bent on nothing short of genocide and ethnic cleansing. They care not a whit about what leadership Palestinians choose or don't choose because they won't be given that opportunity. It's "full reign" and "total control" and "going home". Who's going to stop them now and admit their colossal mistake?

The entire West has been had, sir. Not the first time, but hopefully the last. Palestinians pay the price, like always.

Enjoy your dinner.