Establishment Christianity failed to be a bulwark against European Fascism. And it's failing in America, too.

[lees1975]

https://signalpress.blogspot.com/2023/11/we-have-history-to-inform-us-of-danger.html

Why is this happening in the freedom and democracy under the Constitution of the United States?

Both Mussolini and Hitler exploited weaknesses in the established churches to neutralize what should have been the greatest opposition to their ideology. German Protestants embraced the nationalism embodied in the National Socialist agenda, an ideology not unlike that of American Christian Nationalism, the idea that God has placed a special blessing upon people of a particular ethnic and racial identity for the purpose of bringing justice to the world. Regardless of whatever means they chose to use to bring about this "will of God," including precipitating a bloody, destructive, inhumane war, they believed he would hold their coat-tails and cheer them on. The Protestant state church actually dedicated church buildings in the name of the Fuhrer.

The Catholic Church had billions of dollars in church property to protect inside Germany and Italy. The Vatican was, of course, just down the street from the headquarters of Italian fascism. In 1933, in a move aimed at its own self-preservation, abandoning the message of the Christian gospel, the Church negotiated the Reichskonkordat which required clergy who take office in the church to also take an oath of loyalty to the governor or president of the German Reich.

---snip---

There is nothing that Trump brings to the political table that Christians should be endorsing, or supporting with their votes. This political campaign has taken a clear and dangerous turn, not only away from foundational American values and democratic principles, but in a direction that is antithetical to every principle and practice of the Christian gospel. There's nothing there that bears any resemblance at all to the Christian gospel, not one thing, including the openly anti-Christian sentiments of the movements' leader, Trump.

[NCIndie]

1. Geez. Yet another comparison to Nazis.

Godwin’s Law lives.

[tanyev]

2. Actually, Godwin's OK with it.

Mike Godwin, creator of Godwin's law, has rescinded his own rule for those outraged by vile fascists marching the streets of Virginia, USA, at the weekend.

In other words, it's OK to call these un-American white supremacists exactly what they are: "By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you," Godwin said on Sunday evening.

Godwin's law states that "as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." The unofficial extension of this is that the first person to bring up Hitler automatically loses the argument.

Godwin created the aphorism in the early 1990s, when he was the first in-house lawyer for the EFF. It was created partly as a humorous aside on bulletin board behavior and partly as an exercise in mimetics and to encourage people to read more history. More than 20 years later it's still cited online.

https://www.theregister.com/2017/08/14/godwins_law_creator_rescinds_ruling_after_nazis_march_in_charlottesville/

[NCIndie]

5. Calling a Nazi a Nazi seems reasonable.

The article went classic discussion board regression.

[msongs]

3. xtians in germany overwhelmingly loved and supported hiitler. never was a bulwark. nt

[appalachiablue]

4. PBS: Pope Pius XII and Hitler, Vatican Documents Show Secret Back Channel

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/vatican-documents-show-secret-back-channel-between-pope-pius-xii-and-adolph-hitler
---------
- 'Red Cross and Vatican helped thousands of Nazis to escape,' The Guardian, 2011.

Research shows how travel documents ended up in hands of the likes of Adolf Eichmann, Josef Mengele and Klaus Barbie in the postwar chaos, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/25/nazis-escaped-on-red-cross-documents

[tornado34jh]

6. No religion has been a bulwark against fascism, at least none that I know of

Maybe someone could tell me an instance for that, but as far as I know, I have never heard it being a bulwark against fascism. In fact, many religions and denominations probably support or have supported that in some form of that one way or another.

[lees1975]

7. It never has actually been a bulwark against Fascism.

But, if Christians take seriously their belief that the Bible is without human error, and infallible in its spiritual content, then the first step is to interpret the Christian gospel in its correct context. The second step is to take that interpretation seriously, seeing Christianity as more a faith of practice than one of theology and doctrine. And when those principles of practice are listed according to a correct interpretation, they characterize the opposite of fascism.

The problem is that churches are full of leaders who are in it to get something for themselves. And in this country, among conservative Evangelicals, they've seen alliances with political leaders as a means to an end, rather than as being the kind of influence that Christ taught, using the analogy of salt and light.

In adopting a right wing political agenda as part of the substance of their practice, they have allowed the vacuum created by throwing Jesus under the bus to be filled with whoever gets them the most power. The history of Christianity in Western Civilization is one of a church under the control of a state, and the Protestant reformation only made it easier for monarchs to become heads of the church as well as heads of state.

The American conservative evangelicals who have let right wing politics into their churches are now in a complete state of apostasy. They are helping to advance fascism, not stand as a bulwark against it.

[tornado34jh]

9. That's the problem, there is no consistent doctrine

It only proves religion is man-made. Sometimes it feels like I can't even tell the difference between the denominations. I do know the differences, but again, if humanity can decide to use religion to whatever he/she feels like interpreting it, sometimes it begs the question, what is the point of all these different denominations/sects? It's not limited to Christianity. We obviously have seen it was Islamists. But most people don't know that there are extremist Hindus, Buddhists, and the like as well. It is why I am critical of religion.

[Martin Eden]

8. Failing to oppose fascism is one thing;

Taking an active role in bringing fascists to power is something else -- which is what far too many "conservative" Evangelicals are doing in the USA.