UN chief Guterres urges ceasefire as Gaza becomes 'graveyard for children'

[Uncle Joe]

The nightmare in Gaza is more than a humanitarian crisis. It is a crisis of humanity,’ he said.

(snip)

“Hundreds of girls and boys are reportedly being killed and injured every day,” he said.

“More journalists have reportedly been killed over a four-week period than in any conflict in at least three decades,” he said. “More United Nations aid workers have been killed than in any comparable period in the history of our organisation.”

(snip)

The remarks are some of the sharpest yet from Guterres, who has previously called for a ceasefire and said on Monday that Israeli strikes have targeted “hospitals, refugee camps, mosques, churches and UN facilities, including shelters.”

“No one is safe,” he said. Guterres also criticised the Palestinian armed group Hamas for using civilians as “shields” and continuing to “launch rockets indiscriminately towards Israel”, as he called for the release of captives still held in Gaza.

(snip)

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/6/un-chief-guterres-urges-ceasefire-as-gaza-becomes-graveyard-for

[Goddessartist]

1. It is a crisis of humanity.

Nothing justifies this carnage.

[AloeVera]

4. True. But...

The disturbing truth though is that for many it's just a means to an end. They are able to overlook the carnage and blame the victims to boot.

Another 10,000 dead? More? Even sacrificing many of their own hostages?

Whatever it takes to keep Israel "safe".

Humanity, as in the collective human race, doesn't factor into that kind of thinking. This is a scenario where some lives are valued less than others.

It's up to the Western world to step in and say no more, we do not accept this from one of our own.

[Beastly Boy]

5. Who are the victims? Hamas?

Since Hamas is to blame for creating the carnage in Gaza and hiding behind civilians as just the means to their end, that would be a reasonable interpretation of your post.

And you appear to speak for humanity being on your side. Say it ain't so!

[AloeVera]

6. Blaming the victims

"Why don't the Palestinian people rise up against Hamas"

"Why did they elect Hamas"

"Why didn't they move south"

"Why do they allow Hamas to hide amongst them or hide their rockets"

"People who work for the government, which is Hamas, are non-innocents"

"If they live in an apartment building above a Hamas tunnel, they are legitimate military targets".

If their mosques, schools, hospitals are near or over tunnels/military installations, those are legitimate targets"

And my favourite:
" Ask Hamas to give you fuel for your hospitals or food to keep you alive".

The party responsible for the carnage as you accurately describe it is the one committing it. It didn't have to be this carnage of civilians, Israel chose to wage their war this way. And yes, most of the world condemns it. If you stand for ALL of humanity, that's the correct, human response imo.

[Beastly Boy]

7. Exonerating the criminals

I hope you are not attributing any of the quotes you made up above to me.

Here is what you can attribute to me: The criminal is the one who shoots first as he hides behind children, not the one who shoots back.

This is the fundamental principle of self-defense, and someone who turns this principle on its head is the one who blames the victim.

[AloeVera]

8. Self-defense?

To clarify, these are statements I've seen used repeatedly by people. Not you specifically.

I am not exonerating any criminals. I will say it again, those who committed the atrocities of October 7th must pay for their crimes. Barbaric behaviour, no excuse for the suffering they've inflicted.

But no excuse for the suffering and massive killing of civilians inflicted by Israel either. You can't condemn one and ignore the other.

If the criminals are hiding behind civilian hostages you find another way to get them. If you kill 50 hostages to get one criminal leader, you value your need to be "safe" over the lives of those civilians.

I dont think self-defense extends to disregarding the right to life of civilians. What we are witnessing goes way beyond self-defense and that is why it's being condemned.

[Beastly Boy]

9. Yes, self-defense. Against notorious criminals out for innocent blood.

And making attempts to avoid civilian casualties to the practicable extent warranted by self defense does not equal disregarding civilian lives. But there is a limit to this extent, which any rational human being can discern without falling back on righteous indignations.

On the other hand, when someone fires at you while hiding behind civilians and deliberately endangering them, this is not just disregard for civilian lives, it is cynical contempt for civilian lives in the commission of a crime.

As far as the "Why don't Palestinians do something about Hamas" BS, they are all strawman arguments, whether they are being proposed seriously or sarcastically. I don't care who uses this BS to obfuscate anything, it stinks to me all the same.

[AloeVera]

2. See no evil...

Targeting of journalists, knocking out of communications systems repeatedly. Wonder what that is about?

They don't want us to see the graveyard.

[Goddessartist]

3. Israel has a long history

of targeting journalists.

[lapucelle]

10. Israel does not have a history of targeting journalists.

It might be time, however, to start making distinctions between journalists and opportunistic freelance terrorist sympathizers.

Link to tweet

[Goddessartist]

11. That's your opinion.

The facts speak otherwise.

[lapucelle]

12. The facts do not speak otherwise. Israel does not target journalists. N/T

[AloeVera]

13. Denial of well-documented facts is kind of "illiberal".

Not only long, but brutal and odious.

Denial of this reality is at best shockingly naive.

The history is well-documented for anyone who cares to know. Here is a tiny snippet, from Oxford/Reuters Centre. You can continue from here. Be sure to link to the video of the attack by Israeli forces on the mourners at the funeral of Shireen Abu Akleh, a beloved Palestinian journalist . The targeting of journalists is so extreme, it even extends to those attending their funeral as well as their family members.

https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/news/not-just-shireen-how-israel-has-attacked-journalists-and-newsrooms-palestine

[lapucelle]

15. Yes, indeed it is.

[AloeVera]

14. "A war without journalists is just a war of propaganda".

The above quote is from Reporters without Borders (RSF) in the link below. To help bring you up to speed. 35 journalists killed since the war on Palestinians began. A whole family bombed and killed. The premises of more than 50 media outlets partially or fully destroyed.

Or you can go back to your coffee and donuts of course.

ttps://time.com/6330906/israel-hamas-war-journalist-death

[lapucelle]

16. And some who pose as journalists are, in fact, partisans and/or propagandists.

Has Reporters without Borders© addressed this yet?

AP statement on Gaza freelancers

The Associated Press had no knowledge of the Oct. 7 attacks before they happened. The first pictures AP received from any freelancer show they were taken more than an hour after the attacks began. No AP staff were at the border at the time of the attacks, nor did any AP staffer cross the border at any time." "We are no longer working with Hassan Eslaiah, who had been an occasional freelancer for AP and other international news organizations in Gaza."

AP uses images taken by freelancers around the world. When we accept freelance photos, we take great steps to verify the authenticity of the images and that they show what is purported. " "The role of the AP is to gather information on breaking news events around the world, wherever they happen, even when those events are horrific and cause mass casualties.

=======================================

The donuts are for folks who just happen to drop by. Have one.

[AloeVera]

17. Thanks but I have to watch my weight.

Sugar is poison, as are some of the unfounded claims made by partisan groups like you know, Honest Reporting.

I was about to ask you why you posted a claim that has since been debunked - that the journalists knew in advance and had been embedded. Did you know that an Israeli minister has already threatened them with "assassination"? Don't be a part of the propaganda that costs lives.
Peace and good night.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67375667

[lapucelle]

18. I said partisans and/or propagandists, not participants.

That these picture-taking tourists went along for the ride and happily snapped away as the massacre unfolded is clearly documented.

I wonder how much money they made from their pictures of the carnage as it was happening.

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I'm sure there are many ethical journalists who would takes photos of the aftermath of gruesome crime scenes. None, however, would take photos as the gruesome crimes were in progress over the course of eight hours.

And there is something particularly disgusting about access "journalists".



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I stay away from unreliable news sources like Honest Reporting and as far away as possible from state run "news" organizations like Al Jazeera.

From Mediaite:

CNN’s New CEO Addresses ‘Unfortunate News’ of Photojournalist Present During Hamas Attack on Internal Call

https://www.mediaite.com/media/cnns-new-ceo-addresses-unfortunate-news-of-photojournalist-present-during-hamas-attack-on-internal-call/