Vox--" Why did Hamas invade Israel?"

[Collimator]

Just posting this article here because it seems like a clear presentation of the current situation.

Note the bolded section in the quote below.

Rising tension in Jerusalem and the West Bank, weaker border security, an Arab political situation turning more and more unfavorable to the Palestinians — these are all conditions in which it makes more strategic sense for Hamas to take a such a huge risk.

To be clear: Saying it makes strategic sense for Hamas to engage in atrocities is not to justify their killing civilians. There is a difference between explanation and justification: The reasoning behind Hamas’s attack may be explicable even as it is morally indefensible.

Finally, these words sum up where we need to focus our concern.

. . . it’s clear who is suffering the greatest consequences: not the extremist leaders on either side, but ordinary Israelis and Palestinians alike.

Extending peace to anyone who reads this.

[msongs]

1. difficult to believe hamas thinks it will get anything good out this murdering nt

[FBaggins]

2. Not entirely wrong - but too narrow

The word Iran is not even mentioned - nor the ongoing Iran/Saudi proxy war.

[Beastly Boy]

8. The role of the nations inrerested in the destruction of Israel is never mentioned

in the context of Palestinian politics: the radical elements of the Palestinian society have been promoted, supported and manipulated by the regional enemies of Israel desiring its annihilation. The Arab League had been instrumental in the decision of Palestinian leadership to reject the partition of Palestine and have a stqte of their own. A long succession of Arab and Islamist regimes have financed, praised and armed the most radical elements of the Palestinian society in a long succession of terrorist groups.

None of these sponsors of terrorism had any interest in the ordinary Palestinians. Their only goal was to weaken Israel and destabilize the region.

Their success has been as evident as it was bloody and brutal. yet, not a mention of it in any discussion of the Israel-Palesine conflict.

[prodigitalson]

12. Hamas got support from the Israeli gov (netenyahu's) too

as a way to undermine Fatah/Palestinian authority

classic blowback

[Beastly Boy]

14. Is this supposed to imply that anything I said in my post is inaccurate?

Or is it just another case of both-sideism?

[prodigitalson]

15. no it's a case of shortsighted stupidity

[Beastly Boy]

16. in this case, he is joining a long list of shortsightedly stupid dignitaries across the region.

Nit an exceptional event by any means.

[prodigitalson]

17. I certainly can't argue with that

But I do think that yoohoo's too clever by half support for Hamas was particular dumb and it hasn't gone without criticism in Israel. The Israeli's are much better than we are at holding their leaders accountable for their fuck ups. If Americans were like Israelis Bush probably would have been impeached after 9/11 instead of rallied behind. I don't expect Bibi to be in office a year from now.

And one of the other acts of shortsighted stupidity was Arafat's rejection of the deal Clinton put together. Please don't accuse me of drawing a moral equivelance between Israel and Hamas. I think the Israelis have no choice at this point to reoccupy the Gaza strip until Hamas' command is terminated with extreme prejudice (to steal a line from Apocalypse Now) But Hamas' barbarism or Israel's righteous response are not reasons to ignore Bibi's deadly stupidity. He isn't above criticism, as any Israeli will tell you.

[Celerity]

10. China-brokered Saudi-Iran deal driving 'wave of reconciliation', says Wang

Beijing’s top diplomat lauds improving ties between Iran and Saudi Arabia, calls for full resumption of Tehran nuclear deal.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/8/21/china-brokered-saudi-iran-deal-driving-wave-of-reconciliation-says-wang

[Roy Rolling]

3. Right back atcha

We gotta believe in peace as much as we believe in God, Atheism, or Materialism.

Peace to you and all reading this.

On edit: This is a non-solution. What is the point of Vox analysis if to not bring the reader to a conclusion rather than rehashing the problem itself in flowery language? Oh wait, I forgot. Sponsors pay for flowery language.

Vox ain’t a charity. 😜

[femmedem]

5. But it's necessary to understand the problem before finding a solution.

Otherwise, attempted solutions can make the problem worse in the long run.

I thought it was a good article--and I've also seen some posts on DU indicating that people didn't understand the underlying problem and/or lashed out at people who wanted to discuss the problem, claiming that doing so was excusing Hamas or both-siding.

[Ray Bruns]

4. I believe it was the upcoming possible deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel.

I think it scared the bejeebus out of them.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

13. Ding ding, we have a winner.

[303squadron]

6. If this is a game of chess, what's the end game for Hamas?

Iran getting in the way of a Saudi Arabia/Israeli deal makes sense. But for Hamas? Every time that Israel has struck back at the Palestinians, the Palestinians lose big time. So their women and children will suffer for Iran moving the chess pieces and what does Hamas gain? Israel will not let this go until their revenge is enacted in Gaza! Adolph Eichmann is an example.

[Emrys]

7. "There is a difference between explanation and justification"

I fear that's going to be a nuance some here will be reluctant to accept, based on earlier discussions of other contentious issues.

In any case, I doubt Hamas's attack will prove to be a winning strategy, just as Netanyahu's cynical promotion of Hamas hasn't been, so far at least.

[Beastly Boy]

9. Not a comment on the article, but

explanations can be just as one-sided as justifications, and just as ignorant.

[Bucky]

11. You don't get rid of cockroaches by just stomping on the ones you see

You have to remove the conditions in which they are enabled to breed