Noam Chomsky: America's Extraterritorial Reach Is Its Own Scandal
* Excellent.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! Im Amy Goodman in Boston, as we sit down with Noam Chomsky for a public conversation. I asked him about the arrest of Julian Assange.
NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, the Assange arrest is scandalous in several respects. One of them is just the effort of governmentsand its not just the U.S. government. The British are cooperating. Ecuador, of course, is now cooperating. Sweden, before, had cooperated. The efforts to silence a journalist who was producing materials that people in power didnt want the rascal multitude to know aboutOK?thats basically what happened. WikiLeaks was producing things that people ought to know about those in power. People in power dont like that, so therefore we have to silence it. OK? This is the kind of thing, the kind of scandal, that takes place, unfortunately, over and over.
To take another example, right next door to Ecuador, in Brazil, where the developments that have gone on are extremely important. This is the most important country in Latin America, one of the most important in the world. Under the Lula government early in this millennium, Brazil was the mostmaybe the most respected country in the world. It was the voice for the Global South under the leadership of Lula da Silva. Notice what happened. There was a coup, soft coup, to eliminate the nefarious effects of the labor party, the Workers Party. These are described by the World Banknot me, the World Bankas the golden decade in Brazils history, with radical reduction of poverty, a massive extension of inclusion of marginalized populations, large parts of the populationAfro-Brazilian, indigenouswho were brought into the society, a sense of dignity and hope for the population. That couldnt be tolerated.
After Lulasafter he left office, a kind of a soft coup takes placeI wont go through the details, but the last move, last September, was to take Lula da Silva, the leading, the most popular figure in Brazil, who was almost certain to win the forthcoming election, put him in jail, solitary confinement, essentially a death sentence, 25 years in jail, banned from reading press or books, and, crucially, barred from making a public statementunlike mass murderers on death row. This, in order to silence the person who was likely to win the election. Hes the most important political prisoner in the world. Do you hear anything about it?
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/noam-chomsky-americas-extraterritorial-reach-is-its-own-scandal/
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I mean, why should the United Stateswhy should anyno other state could possibly do it. But why should the United States have the power to control what others are doing elsewhere in the world?
I mean, its an outlandish situation. It goes on all the time. We never even notice it. At least theres no comment on it.
From the earliest stages of US history, the Monroe Doctrine defined how US elites saw the role of the US. It started with the Americas, and was extended to the entire globe.
Over 700 overseas bases and military spending that far exceeds any other country.
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)our objectives.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)because China to cite one example certainly says 'hi', but that's for another thread.
So you'd what; prefer to let the ICC handle Assange?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But at this point, the US empire is the dominant one.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)So should extradition not be a thing at ALL in any circumstance? Or do we just have a problem with it because Assange has nailed himself to a faux cross again before the media??
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But speaking of imperial overreach is a different matter.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)a blackmailing information broker under the guise of "journalism", but we'll table that for now...
How is this an example of "imperial overreach"? Did we drag his filthy ass out of the embassy or something? Which law is being broken in requesting extradition for Assange? Ironically jail is the safest place for him right now because I assure you his life isn't worth $10 on the street...
Why is an intellectual like Chomsky missing the actual story here, which is Julian Assange, however pure and high-minded he started out over a decade ago, is now a fucking criminal extortionist/data thief/agitprop peddler acting DIRECTLY on behalf of the Russian Intelligence Services (which Assange doesn't even bother to pretend to deny anymore)?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Assange claims to be a journalist. And he might make that case.
edited to add:
but Chomsky also addresses US interference in Latin America.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)So Chomsky wants to make the same assertion with conjecture and circumstantial-at-best evidence? Good luck with that shit; which would be funny if Chomsky wasn't bending over backwards to explain how Russia's *proven and documented* ratfucking of Hillary Clinton didn't make any difference in the election result...
And lemme guess -- Tomorrow, Maduro will be some glorious hero of the leftist revolution under siege from the Imperial Evil Great Satan U.S. and pay no attention to the decomposing piles of protesters who 'accidentally' got shot, newspaper staffs rotting in jail, a completely dead economy replaced by a black market, medical aid he won't allow into the country and hundreds of thousands of former middle-class people who have to dumpster dive for today's sustenance...
Noam is cancelled...
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And does US interference ever hurt? The list of American countries that the US has invaded is long, as is the list that have suffered from US interference.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Because if it's wrong and immoral when WE do it then the same rule applies when other world powers do it elsewhere... Like I said, Chomsky is being selective as all balls in his outrage and it looks like he's playing an agenda.
Judi Lynn
(160,451 posts)BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I'm disappointed to see Noam carry water for a Kremlinist piece of shit like Assange. Odd that Noam didn't see fit to mention Assange publishing the very real personal details of innocent people in the Sony hack... Odd that he didn't mention Assange outing GLBT folks in Saudi Fucking Arabia or working for Assad's re-election or any of a hundred other things... There's this weird subset of the left who still see Assange and Wikileaks as their circa 2008 version before they sold out to Moscow.
And to make things worse he props up that Greenwaldian "coup in Brazil" conspiracy theory with Lula?? For Christ's sake, Chomsky is supposed to be smarter than this and Goodman is supposed to be better than this. DN started with promise but now it's only slightly better than the leftist version of Infowars...
Tune in tomorrow as Chomsky mourns over the tragedy of Alan Garcia the martyr...
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)He is smarter, not any doubt about that.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)anyone at this point still whoring that "KremlinGate is a overblown myth" deza is either really ignorant, hasn't bothered to keep up with the story, or they're getting their strings pulled directly from Moscow.
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)Anyone even suggesting he is getting his strings pulled by Moscow should be embarrassed.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)On the day that the redacted Mueller report gets released, no less?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, the Assange arrest is scandalous in several respects. One of them is just the effort of governmentsand its not just the U.S. government. The British are cooperating. Ecuador, of course, is now cooperating. Sweden, before, had cooperated. The efforts to silence a journalist who was producing materials that people in power didnt want the rascal multitude to know aboutOK?thats basically what happened. WikiLeaks was producing things that people ought to know about those in power. People in power dont like that, so therefore we have to silence it. OK? This is the kind of thing, the kind of scandal, that takes place, unfortunately, over and over.
To take another example, right next door to Ecuador, in Brazil, where the developments that have gone on are extremely important. This is the most important country in Latin America, one of the most important in the world. Under the Lula government early in this millennium, Brazil was the mostmaybe the most respected country in the world. It was the voice for the Global South under the leadership of Lula da Silva. Notice what happened. There was a coup, soft coup, to eliminate the nefarious effects of the labor party, the Workers Party. These are described by the World Banknot me, the World Bankas the golden decade in Brazils history, with radical reduction of poverty, a massive extension of inclusion of marginalized populations, large parts of the populationAfro-Brazilian, indigenouswho were brought into the society, a sense of dignity and hope for the population. That couldnt be tolerated.
After Lulasafter he left office, a kind of a soft coup take placeI wont go through the details, but the last move, last September, was to take Lula da Silva, the leading, the most popular figure in Brazil, who was almost certain to win the forthcoming election, put him in jail, solitary confinement, essentially a death sentence, 25 years in jail, banned from reading press or books, and, crucially, barred from making a public statementunlike mass murderers on death row. This, in order to silence the person who was likely to win the election. Hes the most important political prisoner in the world. Do you hear anything about it?
Well, Assange is a similar case: Weve got to silence this voice. You go back to history. Some of you may recall when Mussolinis fascist government put Antonio Gramsci in jail. The prosecutor said, We have to silence this voice for 20 years. Cant let it speak. Thats Assange. Thats Lula. There are other cases. Thats one scandal.
The other scandal is just the extraterritorial reach of the United States, which is shocking. I mean, why should the United Stateswhy should anyno other state could possibly do it. But why should the United States have the power to control what others are doing elsewhere in t
he world? I mean, its an outlandish situation. It goes on all the time. We never even notice it. At least theres no comment on it.
https://www.democracynow.org/2019/4/12/chomsky_arrest_of_assange_is_scandalous