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Bosonic

(3,746 posts)
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 03:40 AM Jun 2013

Nine tourists killed at mountain base camp in Kashmir

Source: BBC

Gunmen have killed 10 people, including nine foreign tourists after storming a hotel in Pakistan-administered Kashmir.

Officials say five are from Ukraine, one from Russia and three from China. A Pakistani guide also died in the attack.

It happened at the base camp of Nanga Parbat, the world's ninth highest mountain, in Gilgit-Baltistan.

It is the first such attack on tourists in the region. A Sunni militant group, Jundullah, said it was responsible.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23018706

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Nine tourists killed at mountain base camp in Kashmir (Original Post) Bosonic Jun 2013 OP
It's so damn senseless. Nolimit Jun 2013 #1
War is hell. We declared war on those people. RobertEarl Jun 2013 #18
Do you actually justify this massacre question everything Jun 2013 #23
Yes, that is EXACTLY what happened cliffordu Jun 2013 #25
Then why did they kill Russians and Chinese? (nt) Recursion Jun 2013 #41
Monsters strike again. :( Cha Jun 2013 #2
Sickening dipsydoodle Jun 2013 #3
scumbags, they claim it was in retaliation for US Drone STrike that killed on of their members JI7 Jun 2013 #4
Seems like a rational plan, try to get other countries to force the US to stop its drones..... peacebird Jun 2013 #5
haha, you think they give a shit about innocent civilians ? they KILLED a pakistani civilian JI7 Jun 2013 #6
I did not say they were not monsters, merely that this action was a logical step for them peacebird Jun 2013 #7
they are not upset about innocent civilians who die from drones, they wouldn't care if it was just JI7 Jun 2013 #9
Yup. nt Lucky Luciano Jun 2013 #16
exactly samsingh Jun 2013 #36
That presumes their agenda is really stopping zone strikes geek tragedy Jun 2013 #13
it's disgusting- as disgusting as attacking Iraq cali Jun 2013 #8
You mean like when we butchered tens of thousands of JoeyT Jun 2013 #39
Barbarians... secondvariety Jun 2013 #10
More anti- Islam bashing. jessie04 Jun 2013 #11
More stick your head in the sand. former9thward Jun 2013 #15
Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #20
did you forget the sarcasm sign? samsingh Jun 2013 #37
"A Sunni militant group, Jundullah, said it was responsible." Botany Jun 2013 #12
That's right....lets kill,kill,kill jessie04 Jun 2013 #14
If you are part of or support a group that carries out this kind of crap I want you dead. Botany Jun 2013 #19
Do you want the US military and its supporters dead, too? Comrade Grumpy Jun 2013 #30
Exactly jessie04 Jun 2013 #43
There are no legitimate grievances which warrant such actions. (nt) Posteritatis Jun 2013 #28
I didn't see that anywhere in the poster's writing. Did you? /nt Ash_F Jun 2013 #31
There are no legitimate grievances which warrant JoeyT Jun 2013 #40
i suggest you go over to Pakistan and question anything and see what happens samsingh Jun 2013 #38
How will China and Russia react? mainer Jun 2013 #17
They won't give a flying crap. Beacool Jun 2013 #35
The establishment in Kashmir will make sure they are caught and probably killed vinny9698 Jun 2013 #21
If Pakistan wasn't illegally occupying Kashmir cosmicone Jun 2013 #24
What enlightened tour company... TeeYiYi Jun 2013 #22
The same type of tour company that take climbers to Everest. DreamGypsy Jun 2013 #26
Read the details of this travel advisory... TeeYiYi Jun 2013 #27
Personally? No. DreamGypsy Jun 2013 #32
Except most of these tourists weren't American mainer Jun 2013 #33
That reminds me. It's been a while a since I read a drone-kills-a-dozen-children story. Ash_F Jun 2013 #29
It's been tapering down for the past 3 or 4 years Recursion Jun 2013 #42
American among 10 tourists killed by Pakistani militants Eugene Jun 2013 #34
Yep....those drone attacks are coming home. jessie04 Jun 2013 #44

Nolimit

(142 posts)
1. It's so damn senseless.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 03:53 AM
Jun 2013

Why, what do they have to gain by killing those people? Did they just determine those people deserved to die?

question everything

(47,572 posts)
23. Do you actually justify this massacre
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 02:01 PM
Jun 2013

because "we declared war on them?"

How easy it is to sit safe and comfortable and use your keyboard to express these ideas.

JI7

(89,285 posts)
4. scumbags, they claim it was in retaliation for US Drone STrike that killed on of their members
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 05:49 AM
Jun 2013

so you kill people from the ukraine, russia ,china and even a pakistani ?

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
5. Seems like a rational plan, try to get other countries to force the US to stop its drones.....
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 06:07 AM
Jun 2013

I mean, the taliban is saying to those countries, how do YOU like having your innocent civilians slaughtered, and we did this because the US is slaughtering innocent civilians with drones....

It is brutal, and totally wrong, but so is "our" drone program.

JI7

(89,285 posts)
6. haha, you think they give a shit about innocent civilians ? they KILLED a pakistani civilian
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 06:10 AM
Jun 2013

these are the people who shoot, blow up, and throw acid at girls for going to school .

JI7

(89,285 posts)
9. they are not upset about innocent civilians who die from drones, they wouldn't care if it was just
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 06:16 AM
Jun 2013

that.

they are upset when the drone kills one of their fellow terrorists as they said in this case. they said it was because of a drone strike which killed one of their members . not because they were upset over innocent people dying.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
13. That presumes their agenda is really stopping zone strikes
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 09:56 AM
Jun 2013

as opposed to bringing all of Kashmir under Muslm rule.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
39. You mean like when we butchered tens of thousands of
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 05:31 PM
Jun 2013

Iraqis in response to 9/11? Doesn't make the murderers/terrorists any more right, but it does mean we probably shouldn't be too quick to climb up on our soapbox.

 

jessie04

(1,528 posts)
11. More anti- Islam bashing.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 08:27 AM
Jun 2013

One isolated event and let's bash an entire religion.

Islam is a religion of peace.

former9thward

(32,128 posts)
15. More stick your head in the sand.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 12:12 PM
Jun 2013

Hardly "One isolated event". This goes on a daily basis. If you don't know that you must be wearing thick blinders.

Response to jessie04 (Reply #11)

Botany

(70,635 posts)
12. "A Sunni militant group, Jundullah, said it was responsible."
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 08:55 AM
Jun 2013

This is something to be real proud about. I hope those that did this act and those that
helped them carry it out meet a quick and violent death. No excuses for this kind of
slaughter.

 

jessie04

(1,528 posts)
14. That's right....lets kill,kill,kill
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 09:59 AM
Jun 2013

No questions, no trying to understand their legitimate grievances ,

And you wonder why this happens.

Botany

(70,635 posts)
19. If you are part of or support a group that carries out this kind of crap I want you dead.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 12:41 PM
Jun 2013

The time to talk about your legitimate reasons is over after you go and
slaughter innocent people.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
30. Do you want the US military and its supporters dead, too?
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 03:36 PM
Jun 2013

We've left a trail of corpses wherever they go, including bunches of innocent civilians. Is shooting hikers somehow worse than bombing wedding parties or Afghan villages? I won't even mention Iraq. Oops.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
40. There are no legitimate grievances which warrant
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 05:37 PM
Jun 2013

blasting children with drones, but we do it anyway.

There aren't any legitimate reasons that warrant such actions, but people here are entirely too happy to pretend our hands are clean.

samsingh

(17,604 posts)
38. i suggest you go over to Pakistan and question anything and see what happens
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 05:20 PM
Jun 2013

you do injustice to all the innocent victims

mainer

(12,037 posts)
17. How will China and Russia react?
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 12:24 PM
Jun 2013

Will they want to mete out some justice? The Taliban is so reckless they don't care which tiger's tail they're yanking.

vinny9698

(1,016 posts)
21. The establishment in Kashmir will make sure they are caught and probably killed
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 01:51 PM
Jun 2013

Tourism is a cash cow to these underdeveloped areas and the government, corporations are going to make sure it doesn't happen again. When the tourist trade is harmed, a lot of people lose big money, lose jobs, lose a way of making a living. There are to many self-interests involved in settling this crime.
In Thailand they have Tourist Police, which carry vests with those words on the back. You complain to one of them about an establishment they will shut it down. They are very prevalent in tourist areas and Aussies abuse the system to get free beer from bars. Aussies complain about being overcharged and the bar just returns them their money, to afraid being shut down for a few beers.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
22. What enlightened tour company...
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 01:55 PM
Jun 2013

...sent climbers to Pakistan? Honest to gawd I would go ANYWHERE in the world before I would travel to Pakistan right now. There is just no fucking way that Pakistan could be considered a safe travel destination.

TYY

DreamGypsy

(2,252 posts)
26. The same type of tour company that take climbers to Everest.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 03:13 PM
Jun 2013

A tour company that takes people to the places those people choose to go - Nanga Parbat. The climbers were undoubtedly aware of the mountaineering risks and accepted those; presumably they knew the political risks as well. Sad, but the reality nonetheless.



Nanga Parbat is located in the Northern Areas of Pakistan and is the Western bastion of the Himalaya. It is the nineth highest mountain in the world and the second highest in Pakistan after K2. Steeped in a history matched by few others in Asia it has staged some of the greatest Himalayan ascents of all time. From Hermann Buhl’s solo first ascent in 1953 via the Upper North ridge to Gunther and Reinhold Messner’s first ascent of the Rupal Face in 1970 via the South South East Spur, Messner’s solo climb of the Diamir Face in 1978, and more recently Vince Anderson and Steve House’s Alpine-style ascent of the Central Pillar of the Rupal Face. These epic climbs continue to inspire climbers to attempt yearly what is considered to be the second hardest 8000m mountain after K2.

Nanga Parbat is a truly awesome spectacle. The south face is the largest in the world extending over four kilometres above base camp. To date there have only been five ascents from the south. Nanga Parbat means "Naked Mountain" in Hindi/Urdu and is with reference to the south face's exposed rock buttresses. The north face is equally intimidating. In contrast to the south face’s steep rock and ice the snowy north face is guarded by a broad barrier of seracs that extend the width of the mountain. Climbers before the Second World War were convinced that the only way to climb the mountain was from the north via a long arc extending over Rakhiot Peak (7010m), between the two summits of Silberzacken and finally to the summit of Nanga Parbat thereby avoiding a more direct ascent of the north face. The route was dangerously prone to avalanche and exposed to bad weather. 31 people died attempting to climb the mountain leading to it acquiring the infamous name of the “Killer Mountain”. Nowadays it is not such a killer and there are other peaks that could inherit the nickname (eg Ultar or Batura I). Hermann Buhl’s summit route has only been repeated once (Slovak, 1971) to this day. His ascent marked only the third 8000m ascent after Annapurna I (1950) and Everest and was the only first summit of all the 8000ers to be done without oxygen and of course solo. Most attempts nowadays are via the Westerly Diamir face which is generally considered to be the easiest and safest with the Kinshofer Route the normal route. Nanga Parbat as of 2005, had received 263 ascents by 261 individuals (Messner and SP Member Qudrat Ali have climbed it twice) at a price of 62 deaths. Sixteen women have summited the mountain. Numerous challenging lines still await. The most difficult is an ascent of Nanga Parbat via the unclimbed Mazeno Ridge which constitutes the longest ridge in the world. A number of expeditions have made ‘attempts’ on the mountain during winter but to no avail.


DreamGypsy

(2,252 posts)
32. Personally? No.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 03:54 PM
Jun 2013

Mountain climbing is not one of my passions.

For better or worse, guiding provides a livelihood for many people in mountainous areas. As various countries have developed middle and upper classes that can afford 'hobbies' like climbing, tour companies have become an important part of the economy in some regions.

The Ukrainian, Russian, and Chinese governments probably do not recommend that their citizens look at U.S. State Department warnings about threats to U.S citizens. Did the tour company alert their customers to possible risks? I don't know, but if it was a U.S. company it certainly would have required indemnity against the consequences. I expect many of the businesses in Pakistan to not face the same legal issues that are experienced in the U.S.

The tour company was doing what it does. The eight climbers and the guide were apparently adults who should have been aware of the risks they were taking. Did those who died show bad judgement? In retrospect it's easy to say yes.

Did the U.S. show bad judgement establishing a drone program that kills civilians as well as other targets in a country with which the U.S. is not at war? In retrospect ....


ps: I think the guiding/climbing fad causes significant environment and social problems in many cases. However, given the havoc that we wreak on the environment in the U.S., it's difficult to take a strong moral stand on the issue.

mainer

(12,037 posts)
33. Except most of these tourists weren't American
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 03:54 PM
Jun 2013

I suspect that tourists from China and Ukraine, which have nothing to do with drone attacks, thought they were not targets.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
29. That reminds me. It's been a while a since I read a drone-kills-a-dozen-children story.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 03:31 PM
Jun 2013

Has the military actually been reigning this in? Or does it just not make the news anymore?

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
42. It's been tapering down for the past 3 or 4 years
Mon Jun 24, 2013, 02:39 AM
Jun 2013

Not sure if it's a policy thing so much as we've run out of parts of Baluchistan and Waziristan to blow up.

Eugene

(61,974 posts)
34. American among 10 tourists killed by Pakistani militants
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 04:08 PM
Jun 2013

Source: Associated Press

AP/ June 23, 2013, 7:10 AM

American among 10 tourists killed by Pakistani militants

Updated 1:18 p.m. ET

ISLAMABAD - At least a dozen Islamic militants wearing police uniforms shot to death overnight a Pakistani and 10 foreign tourists, including an American, who were visiting one of the world's highest mountains in a remote area of northern Pakistan that has been largely peaceful, officials said Sunday.

The shooting was one of the worst attacks on foreigners in Pakistan in recent years and is likely to damage the country's already struggling tourism industry. Pakistan's mountainous north — considered until now relatively safe — is one of the main attractions in a country beset with insurgency and other political instability.

The local branch of the Taliban took responsibility for the killings, saying it was to avenge the death of a leader killed in a recent U.S. drone strike.

The 10 foreigners who were killed included two Chinese, one Chinese-American and one Nepalese, said Attaur Rehman, home secretary in the Gilgit-Baltistan area where the attack took place. The other six have not been identified. One Pakistani was also killed, Rehman said.

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Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57590611/american-among-10-tourists-killed-by-pakistani-militants/
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