Indiana appeals court uses Mike Pence's religious liberty law to block abortion ban

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: Law & Crime

Apr 5th, 2024, 10:15 am


The Indiana Court of Appeals issued a bold and unanimous ruling Thursday blocking the state’s near-total abortion ban as a violation of a religious freedom law long championed by conservatives.

The appellate court was unambiguous that the roots of its decision can be found in a framework set up by the U.S. Supreme Court when it overruled Roe v. Wade:

The United States Supreme Court set the stage for this appeal two years ago when it ruled that the federal constitution “does not confer a right to abortion.” In so ruling, the Dobbs Court placed the ability to regulate abortions not protected by federal law squarely in the states’ laps.

Hoosiers after Dobbs

In August 2022, following the Supreme Court’s decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, the Indiana state legislature became the first in the nation to pass a ban on nearly all abortions. Immediately thereafter, the ACLU of Indiana sued to challenge the ban on behalf of five anonymous Jewish, Muslim, and spiritual plaintiffs and the group Hoosier Jews for Choice. The plaintiffs argued that their religious beliefs not only support — but in some situations, even mandate — abortions that would be illegal under Indiana’s ban. The conflict between the Indiana abortion ban and the plaintiffs’ individual religious beliefs meant the ban violated the state’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), they said in their complaint.

Read more: https://lawandcrime.com/abortion/severely-decreased-their-sexual-intimacy-with-their-husbands-indiana-appeals-court-uses-mike-pences-religious-liberty-law-to-block-abortion-ban/

---

Full headline: ‘Severely decreased their sexual intimacy with their husbands’: Indiana appeals court uses Mike Pence’s religious liberty law to block abortion ban

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. This strikes me as funny, but I may have a warped sense of humor.

I also think: "Be careful what you wish for." This is for the Indiana legislature as they voted for the state’s near-total abortion ban.

[elleng]

5. Not funny, but "Be careful what you wish for" is correct.

[Hikerchick57]

33. My first thought!

[lark]

11. At least 2 of us have a warped sense of humor.

I thought it was funny and ironic and so fulfilling!

[erronis]

12. I just want to chime into this sub-thread by three of my favorite posters.

It is funny in a warped way. And so indicative of how the (r)epuglicons are clueless on unintended consequences.

[TexasBushwhacker]

2. Well, I didn't expect this from Indiana

but good for them!

[MyOwnPeace]

3. So, you're saying..... (Cliff Notes here)........

They got "F**ked" by making a law the tries to stop people from "F**king?"

Oh, Mikey, Mama's gonna' be SO disappointed in you!

[Hikerchick57]

34. Too funny

[bucolic_frolic]

4. Isn't religious liberty about believing what you want while not interfering with others?

Religious dictators are not religious at all.

[NanaCat]

17. This is a silly take

Have you ever known a religion that, when given the slightest chance at it, didn't try to seize power for itself to the exclusion of all other beliefs?

Maybe the Satanists and Wiccans are exempt, but all of the others are quite fond of 'all power for me, none for thee.'

[bucolic_frolic]

19. Silly? Better than jaded. /nt

[malthaussen]

24. Society of Friends comes to mind.

They were in charge in colonial Pennsylvania and Rhode Island, but were not oppressive authoritarians and really did support religious freedom for all. Eventually in PA, though, their pacifism became a problem, so Benjamin Franklin initiated a takedown using some of the dirtier politics of the era.

-- Mal

[Jacson6]

6. The law can always turn around and bite you on the butt.

What the LORD giveth, he can take away.

[riversedge]

7. Whow. just plain WHOW!!

[4lbs]

8. Hmm... maybe we can have women join a new "religion", one that allows abortion

in their scripture.

Then any national or state "abortion ban" would run headfirst into federal "freedom of religion" concerns.

That would be something to ponder.

[erronis]

13. Great idea. And nothing says that you can't belong to multiple religions.

You can be a good Catholic on Sundays; and when you need an abortion switch to an accommodating sect/cult.

[Delphinus]

15. Jewish religion

and the Satanist religion - both were taking them to court after the court's decision in 2022 - don't know where the cases stand.

[Grins]

26. Yes, they did.

I was especially interested in the Jewish argument where Dobbs directly conflicts with the Old Testament.

Like to know status of those suits.

[Hekate]

29. These religions already exist, the Old Religion among them. 🌙 In addition Judaism, as my late MIL asserted strongly...

… holds that the woman’s well-being is primary. How did she put it, while Randall Terry was romping around terrorizing women at clinics? “You don’t cut down the tree to save the branch, “ is what she said. Put another way, the fetus must draw breath — and if you want Scripture for that, it’s because God blew breath into a clay figure, and “Adam became a living soul. “

In short, she thought American hysteria on the subject of women’s reproductive care was stupid, and this was a woman who was born in 1914.

Many traditions around the world hold that a fetus is not ensouled until and unless it draws breath. But they tend to be polytheistic, so what would they know, right?

[4lbs]

36. Yeah, that's a good logical stance. Mine is rooted in science and reality.

Although I am a dude, my belief is that the "fetus" is not living until there is a heartbeat AND brain activity. That usually happens at what, after the first trimester?

Until then, it is a collection of cells, like cancer. Fetuses like cancer? Yup, to me they are at the beginning. They function almost exactly like cancerous tumors. They grow (multiply, divide, multiply, etc.), develop blood vessels, and consume nutrients from the host (the mother).

Since some cancers get to the point where they even grow hair and teeth, wouldn't having them removed surgically, through radiation, or chemical chemotherapy, be an abstract version of an abortion? Their fallacious logic affirms that is the case that can be made.

It isn't until we get a heartbeat AND brain activity that they then become something else.

I state both, because how many times have we experienced doctors say a patient is "brain dead"? But... there's a heartbeat and breathing. Yeah, but there's no active brain activity. The machines are doing the vital functions for him/her.

So, a heartbeat isn't enough. It must be matched with brain activity for me.

These "six week" abortion bans are a lame attempt at controlling women. Many women doin't even notice they might be pregnant and get tested until say, around 6 weeks. So, by the time most women find out they are pregnant, they cannot get an abortion, because of these lame-assed bans.

Using my logic above, these abortion bans can in a way, prevent a person from getting cancer treatment. Many people don't get diagnosed with cancer until after a few months to a year.

[Hikerchick57]

9. Excellent!

[mahatmakanejeeves]

10. "the Dobbs Court" NT

[Warpy]

14. I'm sure it's coming as a deep shock to fundagelical Christians

that they're just another religious minority and the majority don't agree with them and deeply resent their dogma being inserted into civil law.

This ruling has hosted them on their own petard. "Religious freedom" is NOT the freedom to bully everybody else.

[Hekate]

32. It's difficult to reason with people who are convinced that the US was founded as a Christian nation...

…and as a corollary, a white nation. And of course, they are convinced that God is on their side and that anyone who doesn’t see it their way is going to fry in Hell for eternity.

People like that need to be constrained by a judicial system that holds fast to the freedoms and responsibilities of everybody. That’s why people like us are trying to uphold the Constitutional view of law — and why the white Christian nationalists are trying to change laws that get in the way of their religion.

[Warpy]

35. That's why I'm so glad to see the "nones" become the majority

Maybe we can start dumping the fundagelical politicians who got elected by people who wanted their neighbors to think they're just as godly. Having religious nuts in any sort of power has been a disaster, ask any woman.

[SouthernDem4ever]

16. I hope this holds for the sake of women in need of healthcare

The ban should be illegal.

[rpannier]

18. Wish I could say Thomas and Alito were spinning in their graves over this decision

But the year is still young.
Maybe the next few months will make it happen

[E. Normus]

20. anti choice folks

seem to think that freedom of religion applies only to their religion. also, freedom from religion doesn't seem to register in their psyche at all.

[azureblue]

21. Makes total sense

Because the antis have nothing to base their contention upon but religion. So they are trying to force their religious beliefs on everybody.

It is the same logic that would prevent a person who says that eating pork is forbidden (it is, in Leviticus), from stopping people from raising pigs, and selling and eating pork.

[patphil]

22. To me, these abortion bans are a violation of women's civil, and religious rights.

The states are imposing a narrow religious point of view on all women, regardless of their religious beliefs.
And, they are arbitrarily deciding that a fetus is a human child, without any evidence to back up their position.
The simple test of humanity should be:
Can the fetus be removed from the womb and survive on it's own, without massive technological support by the medical community? Has it developed enough in the womb to sustain it's body? Both questions must deliver a yes response to acknowledge that the fetus has reached that point where it is now a human child.

Roe/Wade had it right, but sanctimonious, self-righteous religious zealots want to impose their beliefs on all of us, without any real facts to support their position. That's why they're called beliefs.
When you are seizing control of a woman's body, and life, you need to deal in facts, not beliefs.

[appleannie1]

23. That is hysterical. Mikey is probably crying on 'Mother's' shoulder.

[malthaussen]

25. This is funny, and raises a question:

Does an atheist therefore have a right to an abortion? She has no "religious" authority for one, just her own convictions.

-- Mal

[Diamond_Dog]

27. So, when total abortion bans affect MEN in a negative way ...

THEN and ONLY THEN do they see the light.

[h2ebits]

28. This is wonderful news!!!

[louis-t]

30. Mother will not be pleased.

[tornado34jh]

31. Using their own logic against them

That is the unintended consequences of using religion as an excuse.

[riversedge]

37. Delicious!!

[OldBaldy1701E]

38. Just so you all know... I have not stopped laughing about this. (n/t)