France recalls its ambassador to the US in protest of Biden's submarine deal with Australia
Source: NY Times
France announced on Friday that it is immediately recalling its ambassador to the United States, Philippe tienne, in protest of President Biden's announcement of an agreement to provide nuclear-powered submarines to Australia without consulting French officials.
In a statement, the French foreign minister said the decision was made by French President Emmanuel Macron.
"At the request of the President of the Republic, I have decided to immediately recall our two ambassadors to the United States and Australia to Paris for consultations," Jean-Yves Le Drian, the foreign minister said. "This exceptional decision is justified by the exceptional gravity of the announcements made on 15 September by Australia and the United States.
In the statement announcing that the ambassador, Philippe tienne, would return temporarily to Paris -- a severe diplomatic step that is usually used against adversaries -- Mr. Le Drian made it clear that his country sees the actions of the two nations as a serious breach of trust. He said the U.S.-Australia partnership constitutes "unacceptable behavior between allies and partners, the consequences of which affect the very conception we have of our alliances, our partnerships and the importance of the Indo-Pacific for Europe.
Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/17/us/politics/france-ambassador-recall-us-australia.html
bucolic_frolic
(43,311 posts)overreaction? I think so.
Anon-C
(3,430 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,382 posts)cest bien dommage.
Anon-C
(3,430 posts)And with new governments incoming.
sinkingfeeling
(51,474 posts)cstanleytech
(26,320 posts)a gross over reaction.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Specifically how does recalling an ambassador for consultation rise to the level of a gross over-reaction, and on what objective measure is that assertion based on?
Or is just some random gut-feeling?
Lonestarblue
(10,085 posts)Of course, theyre angry. And, at least according to the news Ive read, they were not even given the courtesy due an ally of a heads-up that this deal was coming. Not a good way to keep your allies.
Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)
cstanleytech This message was self-deleted by its author.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Hope it turns out okay.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)Calista241
(5,586 posts)I don't think it's happened under any President. It's a big fucking deal that it's happened.
nycbos
(6,039 posts)So they could win a war occasionally.
BeyondGeography
(39,382 posts)nycbos
(6,039 posts)... and The Frogs a temper tantrum over the Aussies who is the American subs over French subs are stupid too.
France is acting like they were entitled to Australia's business.
BeyondGeography
(39,382 posts)nycbos
(6,039 posts)Last edited Fri Sep 17, 2021, 07:11 PM - Edit history (1)
... Another joke is France's armies are victorious in war when not led by a Frenchman.
Another good one is Frenchman can lead troops from other nations to victory.
Ev'ryone give it up for America's favorite fighting Frenchman
Lafayette!
BeyondGeography
(39,382 posts)as watching Gary Sanchez try to catch a baseball.
Tough times, signed, Yankee fan.
nycbos
(6,039 posts)Moebym
(989 posts)Prospero1
(83 posts)[link:
|Red Mountain
(1,737 posts)give our defense contractors a break! They've had a terrible summer and need some positive news.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)Red Mountain
(1,737 posts)the US may not get the contract. Our AUKUS (Australia-United Kingdom-United States) ally is competitive.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42418/uk-starts-work-on-a-new-nuclear-submarine-right-after-australia-says-its-looking-to-buy
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)Jedi Guy
(3,259 posts)Whereas the subs the Aussies will receive from the new deal are nuclear. Not sure why France is all that shocked that the Aussies, when given the chance, elected to go with a newer, better technology. The advantages of nuclear over diesel are obvious, particularly if the Aussies will be taking those subs into areas that are tantamount to enemy territory.
Seems to me the French need to step up their shipbuilding capabilities if they want to compete. Pitching a fit because someone else offered a better product is pretty silly, IMO.
Moebym
(989 posts)The Australian government has long been frustrated with the French contractor Naval Group over the latter's foot-dragging on the $90 billion submarine contract.
A Feb. 2021 article from ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) goes into more detail on this deal:
According to this article from Bloomberg, this deal was made all the way back in 2016.
France had initially offered to sell Australia diesel-powered submarines that Australia did not want - either that or Australia wanted diesel-powered subs at first, only to have changed its mind later. France was running behind in supplying the nuclear-powered submarines Australia had requested, so the latter backed out of its agreement in favor of entering an alliance with the UK and US, angering France.
If I may offer my opinion on this, I believe the French are acting huffy over losing this lucrative arms deal, although I do question why the US had kept France in the dark about this new deal until almost the 11th hour. I do hope there was a good reason for that, and most of all, I hope that we can quickly smooth over these tensions.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)EX500rider
(10,872 posts)Something they have no experience in, their entire sub fleet is nuclear. They signed the deal 5 years ago and still not one sub has been built.
Even if they had ordered the nuclear version from the French the US reactors are sealed and last for the lifetime of the submarine unlike the ones France uses which have to be serviced every ten years.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,234 posts)OldBaldy1701E
(5,162 posts)Smackdown2019
(1,190 posts)Who cares? I don't!
Besides... if my memory serves me, was it France that made Trump jealous of a military parade and wanted to do the same in DC?
The Unmitigated Gall
(3,835 posts)Chinas belligerence and massive investment in its military capability. It seems to me Australia could use a mix of nuclear submarines for ranging wide with the allies in the Pacific and SCS, and a conventional fleet for home water defense. Conventional subs CAN be quiet and deadly; its the range and speed where they fall short.
Snackshack
(2,541 posts)Australia wants nuclear subs originally went with France to get the boats but France was unable to produce. The Aussies got tired of waiting and decided to go with the US. Now France is mad.
We didnt get all bent and pull our Ambassadors when Airbus stepped in because Boeing was behaving criminally IMO and unable to produce.
orangecrush
(19,624 posts)After taking office, it came to the attention of the Biden administration that France had acted against the interests of the U.S., perhaps making a deal with one of our competitors, say, Russia or China in the Pacific region?
They aren't going to tell us everything, and I'm sure Joe has very good reasons.
ck4829
(35,091 posts)artemisia1
(756 posts)I have mixed feelings on this one. We probably should have given the professional courtesy notice, and just because President Biden's Administration has a "D" for party affiliation doesn't mean they can't make mistakes.
On the other hand, this smells, imho, of SOUR GRAPES from the French side. The truth is that their defence industry has fallen behind in terms of competitiveness. They lost the contract because they blew it. The heady days of the early-2000's when France had the stunningly new and advanced Dassault Rafale 4+ generation fighter as well as top-of-the line frigates and subs is now over. They need to retool to become super competitive again, imho.
That being said, this is a serious quarrel that could have been prevented with a little bit better diplomacy on our part. At least Pres. Biden isn't malicious like former Pres. Trump is. That doesn't mean he can't make a mistake, though, and TRUE respect for him and his office includes potential criticism of his decisions.
Sapient Donkey
(1,568 posts)The CCP seems to get upset whenever a country in that region acquire weapons, often in response to Chinas own build up. I am not just talking about the special case of Taiwan either. They complained about Japan building those fancy helicopter destroyers/carriers, Vietnam potentially getting an arms deal (a couple times), and now this nuclear submarine deal. It reminds me of the people over here who get upset when countries like Iran buy advanced Russian air defense systems.
I mean, come on guys. Countries have the right to defend themselves from potential threats.