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SunSeeker

(51,377 posts)
Thu Jul 2, 2020, 10:55 PM Jul 2020

Sweden's prime minister orders an inquiry into the failure of the country's no-lockdown coronavirus

Source: Business Insider

Sweden's prime minister has ordered an inquiry into the country's decision not to impose a coronavirus lockdown after the country suffered thousands more deaths than its closest neighbours.

"We have thousands of dead," Swedish prime minister Stefan Lofven said at a press conference on Wednesday, while admitting that the country's handling had exposed Sweden's "shortcomings," The Times of London reported.

"Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if."

Unlike most other European countries, including its closest neighbours, Sweden did not implement strict, wholesale lockdown measures in response to the pandemic. Instead, the country has largely allowed businesses and hospitality to remain open and students to attend school.



Read more: https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-opens-inquiry-into-coronavirus-strategy-of-no-lockdown-2020-7?r=US&IR=T



Please raise your hand if you predicted this.



24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Sweden's prime minister orders an inquiry into the failure of the country's no-lockdown coronavirus (Original Post) SunSeeker Jul 2020 OP
"We shall see whose model works," he once told a critic in April. sandensea Jul 2020 #1
In spades. secondwind Jul 2020 #2
I, for one, did not predict that they would RockRaven Jul 2020 #3
Well said. Same here. I respect that they did admit wrong. /nt artemisia1 Jul 2020 #15
Someone dope-slap whoever made the no-lockdown order sakabatou Jul 2020 #4
Herd immunity only works if the vast majority of the population is vaccinated for said disease. Crowman2009 Jul 2020 #5
Depends on your definition of 'works' ... it also 'works' if everyone gets the disease ... mr_lebowski Jul 2020 #17
Sweden's prime minister orders doors on now-empty barns to be closed. PSPS Jul 2020 #6
In other news... Javaman Jul 2020 #7
I'm curious, though, why Belgium, which did have a lockdown, has the 2nd highest death rate OnlinePoker Jul 2020 #8
Prevalence of a different, more virulent strain? sandensea Jul 2020 #9
'Belgian, NOT French' he would point out bobbieinok Jul 2020 #11
But of course, mon ami! sandensea Jul 2020 #12
Belgium, unlike other countries, counts suspected cases. SunSeeker Jul 2020 #10
I dunno if this IS the answer but average age of population is logically going to affect death rate mr_lebowski Jul 2020 #18
Nope, they count "excess deaths," or suspected cases, not just confirmed cases. SunSeeker Jul 2020 #22
K & R N/T w0nderer Jul 2020 #13
there probably are other swedes that disagree but i'll toss my part in w0nderer Jul 2020 #14
I feel your pain. I too am pissed off being associated with my idiotic President. SunSeeker Jul 2020 #16
It was a ridiculous "decision.. russian roulette. Cha Jul 2020 #19
At least Sweden has universal healthcare. We're doing it with 40 million of us uninsured. SunSeeker Jul 2020 #20
Right! & they don't have a Treasonous sadist in charge Cha Jul 2020 #21
Umm, wouldn't this be like Putin launching an investigation into the 2016 election maxrandb Jul 2020 #23
LOL. Yup. nt SunSeeker Jul 2020 #24

Crowman2009

(2,478 posts)
5. Herd immunity only works if the vast majority of the population is vaccinated for said disease.
Thu Jul 2, 2020, 11:21 PM
Jul 2020

This horrible idea by Sweden reminds me of the idiots advocating mailed germ covered lollipops in the mail, or advocating chickenpox parties.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
17. Depends on your definition of 'works' ... it also 'works' if everyone gets the disease ...
Fri Jul 3, 2020, 01:49 PM
Jul 2020

It's just probably that method of achieving herd immunity would not be considered 'working' by the people who ended up ... ya know ... dead or maimed in the process, or their loved ones.

Javaman

(62,442 posts)
7. In other news...
Thu Jul 2, 2020, 11:42 PM
Jul 2020

The people of Sweden vote unanimously to cut off the prime ministers balls as retribution for his abject fucking stupidity

OnlinePoker

(5,702 posts)
8. I'm curious, though, why Belgium, which did have a lockdown, has the 2nd highest death rate
Thu Jul 2, 2020, 11:45 PM
Jul 2020

They're at 842 deaths per million, behind San Marino's 1238. I know Belgium's lockdown only lasted a month or so, but they had already had over 4000 deaths before it was partially lifted in April.

On edit: Sweden is 7th globally at 536 deaths per million.

sandensea

(21,530 posts)
9. Prevalence of a different, more virulent strain?
Fri Jul 3, 2020, 12:21 AM
Jul 2020

Had Poirot been an epidemiologist, rather than a detective, I think even he would have a hard time answering that one.

SunSeeker

(51,377 posts)
10. Belgium, unlike other countries, counts suspected cases.
Fri Jul 3, 2020, 12:54 AM
Jul 2020
Belgium has surged to the top of the grim leaderboard because authorities decided to be radically transparent, if perhaps a bit speculative, about the toll from the novel coronavirus. They include not only deaths that are confirmed to be virus-related, but even those suspected of being linked, whether the victim was tested or not.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/22/841005901/why-belgiums-death-rate-is-so-high-it-counts-lots-of-suspected-covid-19-cases

I have a friend who lives in Brussels, Belgium. She says things are pretty much the same there as in other EU countries, they just count every death that might related to Covid-19. If other countries did that, their numbers would be double, which would take Belgium out of the top 5. So many elderly are dying in our nursing homes from Covid-19 without ever being tested. We know that deaths are much higher than they were last year. Belgium is counting thise numbers. We're not.
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
18. I dunno if this IS the answer but average age of population is logically going to affect death rate
Fri Jul 3, 2020, 01:52 PM
Jul 2020

probably pretty significantly.

Maybe Belgium is older, on average?

SunSeeker

(51,377 posts)
22. Nope, they count "excess deaths," or suspected cases, not just confirmed cases.
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 01:23 AM
Jul 2020

Belgium’s official coronavirus toll closely tracks “excess deaths” for the pandemic period — the number of deaths that exceed what would be expected for the period, based on the country’s historical death rates. For example, Belgium attributed 7,559 deaths between March 16 and April 26 to the coronavirus, in part because the country had 7,397 more deaths in that time period than would have been expected. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/why-belgium-has-recorded-so-many-coronavirus-deaths/2020/05/17/7bfd5a14-9492-11ea-87a3-22d324235636_story.html

Covid-19 is not out of control in Belgium, like it is in, say, Arizona or Houston right now where ICUs are at capacity. Even at the disease’s peak in Belgium, in early April, ICUs were only at 57 per cent capacity. According to Belgium’s Federal Public Service for Health, just 46 per cent of the country’s total official deaths were in hospitals where coronavirus cases were confirmed. But 53 per cent of the Belgian tally, were from care homes, and of these, 84 per cent are suspected but unconfirmed coronavirus deaths.

If we used the same system, our numbers would be double.

Because countries are counting their coronavirus deaths differently, epidemiologists have begun to favor excess death calculations as the most accurate way to track the impact of the virus. Belgium may be the only country with an accurate count. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-belgium-death-toll-lockdown-trump-who-uk-spain-italy-a9494186.html

w0nderer

(1,937 posts)
14. there probably are other swedes that disagree but i'll toss my part in
Fri Jul 3, 2020, 02:35 AM
Jul 2020

Sweden has and has had some serious problems
(some history)

Having since pretty much the late 1980's when they noticed soviet wasn't there much..they went WOOHOO no enemy
and started disassembling army, civil defense preparedness and civic preparedness used to be a big part of swedens defence agaisnt all sorts of crisis ..etc

what is etc?
well swedish prep used to include hmm 5 i believe but it probably was more world class military portable field surgical hospitals(2 now barely)
it used to include 1 year of medication, ppe and similar stored
it used to include 1 year peace time or a couple of weeks war time diesel and gasoline stores
it used to include 1 year of food (boring but nutritious) for every man woman and child inside the borders

it USED to include that buildings like gyms and similar were planned and built in such a way that in a crisis they could be converted to hospitals (or to bomb/gas shelters) or both, there used to be oxygen generators (even old chemical ones the iron or iron oxide and what ever that other powder was a strong oxidizer (subs used it too))

all these and so so so much more was removed, with the applause of a large amount of the swedish people (why waste my tax money on that right?) and politicians, in some cases donated to other countries (where they still do duty in some cases) in some cases 'disposed of ' (read thrown away)

for instance food suppliey prep now are based on stores that keep in THEIR stock rooms and is in their responsibility sphere

hands up if JITO (just in time ordering) rings a bell

that's right folks..possibly 2 weeks there may be a little more

then sweden looked to America and said, what can we learn from America

and started 'effectivizing' the healthcare till sweden had among the lowest amount of hospital beds per capita in the EU

then started privatizing the ownership (still partially keeping the service of it as a semi socialized thing) and especially the elder care

at the same time the bureaucratic way of life more and more took on its own life

for comparison, the town i live in when i left sweden for the US had 10 000 population about 50-75 bureaucrats hired
1 building /office (not counting outdoor staff, just paper-pusheerii)
now
15 years later (bit more)
that same town has
13000 population well over 200 bureocrats, 4 buildings (of which one is the old building that has been expanded) and that building is one of the smaller ones)

the same bureaucratic way of life also became 'a hide behind rules regulations from personal responsibility'
a ''i was just following orders''(nobody learned from Nurenberg in sweden i guess) ''it wasn't me, it was the department''

where if something was done wrong, and people suffered it wasn't a persons fault, it wasn't even a departments fault and no one was punished or 'let go' instead an 'investigation' was done, to be followed by an evaluation of the investigation, then an investigation into the evaluation of the investigation and then an evaluation of the investigation of the evaluation of the investigation, keep it going as long as you want, as long as no blame was placed, no results happened, no persons were punished (merely relocated so they could do damage elsewhere instead)

then add receiving close to (and i am not really that against it) but ca 15-20% increase in population from refugees and immigants in less than 10 years i believe it was, with no plan on how to integrate them into society

and THEN, comes covid19

so
1 sweden didn't have resources for it
2 they don't have the leadership because frankly, leadership requires a chain of command and responsibility being able to be placed
3 they estimated that the population would LISTEN to the advice of the state it used to be the phase 'we recommend you to' meant 'do this, we dont want to have to make a law or call out military to enforce this' but since sweden hasn't seen crisis really for 200 plus years, the people AND leaders are clueless
4 the people didn't take it seriously...because anders tegnell and others kept down playing it to not cause panic and using professional words and forgot the cautionary principle...if it is unknown, then treat it partially as dangerous until proven otherwise, instead they just assumed that...well herd immunity WILL work because it works on other diseases..well some..well a couple..and kinda..well sorta...well you know...a bit (which is a fun game to play in a mathematical simulation perhaps, it takes on a whole other level when you run it on live subjects, but again..NO training in responsibility, no culture of it, no willingness and actually in many cases no knowledge of real world situations..school bench to school bench to univ table to politician never doing common man/woman life)


so this was expected, inevitable actually

an investigation will be made, and nothing will happen
it will be made and no one will pay any price aside from possibly an 'well that was a mistake' and then get relocated with a payraise to another department

sorry bout the long rant
i'm a 5 %er-if/when i get covid, i will get severely ill or die and - due to diseases i will not get care, they might waste morphine on me so i die faster but that's maybe

so not only am i pissed off that i saw this back in december and started a slow self isolation

but i am pissed of at how i could possibly be swedish, i am insulted by what my passport states as my nationality
to be associated with these idiots make me feel bad

SunSeeker

(51,377 posts)
16. I feel your pain. I too am pissed off being associated with my idiotic President.
Fri Jul 3, 2020, 02:55 AM
Jul 2020

But since Europe isn't letting Americans in right now, Americans will be spared the humiliation of being asked how America could haved botched its Covid-19 response so badly, and in a related question, how America could have let a moron like Trump be President.

SunSeeker

(51,377 posts)
20. At least Sweden has universal healthcare. We're doing it with 40 million of us uninsured.
Fri Jul 3, 2020, 10:29 PM
Jul 2020

And the rest of us underinsured.

maxrandb

(15,192 posts)
23. Umm, wouldn't this be like Putin launching an investigation into the 2016 election
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 08:04 AM
Jul 2020

or OJ looking for the real killer?

"God Damnit! Who was in charge here when I fucked this up!?"

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