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Omaha Steve

(99,055 posts)
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 06:53 AM Jun 2020

"The Simpsons" Will No Longer Have White Actors Voice Characters Of Color

Source: Buzz Feed News

The decision comes five months after actor Hank Azaria announced he would no longer be voicing the controversial character Apu.

By Salvador Hernandez

Popular characters in The Simpsons like Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, Dr. Hibbert, and Carl Carlson will no longer be voiced by white actors, producers announced Friday.

“Moving forward, The Simpsons will no longer have white actors voice non-white characters," the show confirmed to BuzzFeed News.

The decision comes five months after actor Hank Azaria announced he would no longer be voicing Apu, a recurring character whose stereotypical portrayal and accent had drawn criticism for years.

Apu, a clerk of the Kwik-E-Mart convenience store, had not appeared on the show for months, but it was still unclear if Fox would be bringing the character back with another actor providing the voice.


Fox

Read more: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/salvadorhernandez/the-simpsons-white-actors-characters-of-color

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"The Simpsons" Will No Longer Have White Actors Voice Characters Of Color (Original Post) Omaha Steve Jun 2020 OP
Looks like Bart's days are numbered whistler162 Jun 2020 #1
The problem is BumRushDaShow Jun 2020 #4
Point well taken FakeNoose Jun 2020 #14
In this particular case BumRushDaShow Jun 2020 #15
But I hope that minority actors could get cast for any animation role! forgotmylogin Jun 2020 #24
Unfortunately the decision-makers don't think the same way we do FakeNoose Jun 2020 #25
It's even weirder in voice-over. forgotmylogin Jun 2020 #30
I agree but BumRushDaShow Jun 2020 #28
About gender and voices... mwooldri Jun 2020 #22
I hope they keep Rev. Lovejoy Botany Jun 2020 #2
Do people not get this is a cartoon and DeminPennswoods Jun 2020 #3
It mostly started from this JonLP24 Jun 2020 #5
Not that much different DeminPennswoods Jun 2020 #6
and those jokes aren't okay either FreddyWhite Jun 2020 #10
As above. Those jokes are terrible. NT Happy Hoosier Jun 2020 #34
it sucks to have very little representation of your own culture FreddyWhite Jun 2020 #12
Exactly. BumRushDaShow Jun 2020 #19
One might add this as well (a couple decades before The Simpsons) BumRushDaShow Jun 2020 #18
But certain groups already have pernicious stereotypes that have been ingrained BumRushDaShow Jun 2020 #7
I'm not offended by "Fat Tony" DeminPennswoods Jun 2020 #8
I would be BumRushDaShow Jun 2020 #11
The problem is many have grown up with only this stereotype IronLionZion Jun 2020 #17
THIS BumRushDaShow Jun 2020 #20
This is so stupid. redgreenandblue Jun 2020 #9
that's not the point FreddyWhite Jun 2020 #13
Probably not 30 years ago when the show started. n/m RhodeIslandOne Jun 2020 #37
It's more about diversity and inclusion of non-white actors IronLionZion Jun 2020 #16
And your post is an example of majority privilege. yardwork Jun 2020 #23
We already have racial apartheid Boomer Jun 2020 #26
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2020 #21
Writing comes first, then acting Boomer Jun 2020 #27
And the gay characters? Jewish? Behind the Aegis Jun 2020 #29
This sounds like a good step, now I hope they're more appalachiablue Jun 2020 #31
Dumb. BlueStater Jun 2020 #32
I agree. HotTeaBag Jun 2020 #33
I wonder if this would have been necessary if ... JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2020 #35
To me this is about the talent. If a person can pull off the voice in a cartoon, then go for it rockfordfile Jun 2020 #36
Doctor Hibbert and Carl might as well be white RhodeIslandOne Jun 2020 #38
 

whistler162

(11,155 posts)
1. Looks like Bart's days are numbered
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 08:02 AM
Jun 2020

next up males only doing male voices and females only doing female voices! Then there is the whole revoicing Anime from Asia industry.

BumRushDaShow

(127,267 posts)
4. The problem is
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 08:28 AM
Jun 2020

that when executing satire and/or "humor" about certain idiosyncracies and foibles of a culture, it is extremely rare to find someone outside of that culture able to do it without the overlay of their own worldview, which usually results in a portrayal that can be "off" enough to cause people of that culture being mimicked, to cringe. And this is also because it usually reinforces the more overt stereotypes that are already prolific.

This is an example of "institutionalized" racism and it permeates the fabric of everything in this country - not just the police but in every part of a workplace, and more notably, in the arts, entertainment, sports, and the media.

As an example of how white cultures being mocked beyond how The Simpsons do portray that family, you'll note that films like "Tobacco Road" don't get shown anymore except on a rare occasion -



FakeNoose

(32,328 posts)
14. Point well taken
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 09:25 AM
Jun 2020

I believe Hank Azaria - as talented as he is - felt guilty about taking work away from minority actors who were never given a chance to develop those skills. Mr. Azaria would become a wonderful coach/trainer for those actors who would step in and become the new voicing talents for the next generation.

Everything happens in baby steps. Once upon a time, white actors refused to wear blackface makeup and as a result, black performers were given a chance.


BumRushDaShow

(127,267 posts)
15. In this particular case
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 09:38 AM
Jun 2020

I would agree with that as well. Members of "minority" groups trying to "break into" doing voice work like this - notably for specific little-seen "ethnic" roles, never get the opportunity, and are thus never able to build up their resumes because those from a "majority" group are always selected - usually due to their prior work histories.

I.e., if you are never selected for the work, then you don't get experience, and it becomes a vicious circle of being perpetually shut out because "no one" wants to hire someone with "no experience".

forgotmylogin

(7,496 posts)
24. But I hope that minority actors could get cast for any animation role!
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 11:25 AM
Jun 2020

We shouldn't require a drawn character's skin color to match the person who happens to be doing their voice. Not every cartoon has humans or realistic flesh tones. I agree that everyone should have equal opportunity to break in, and there should be a rainbow of character types represented everywhere...

But voice-over is weird. Studios often save money and time having one talented voice artist who can do almost anything voice multiple characters, which I think was kind of based on the prototype set by Mel Blanc. And cartoon voices, even in the best situations, often begin from a stereotype because the voice talent is doing an "impression". And animation does have deep roots in stereotypical performances because comedy evolves and changes.

Mike Henry who voices Cleveland (who has his own full spinoff show from Family Guy) tweeted that he wouldn't be doing that character anymore. I appreciate that, and I don't know if him saying that was a joke or tongue-in-cheek or serious, but I have to say that one cool thing about Cleveland is that there is no attempt at "sounding like a black man" or stereotyping in that performance. He's a normal (as normal as cartoon characters might be) character who happens to be black with a very specific voice performance. Of course it would have been great for this character to be voiced by a person of color initially, but he started as a minor character who got his own spinoff that did provide an opportunity for more diverse regular cast members. At least it wasn't Seth McFarlane doing Cleveland's voice also!

I'd hope that ethnic and minority voice artists have the same opportunity to voice typically white characters! Such weirdness like "...there are five different colored anime robots and the black one must be voiced by a black person..." seems kind of misguided. I want a black voice artist to have the opportunity to play the red and the yellow and the blue robots possibly also!

Voice-over is truly one artform where there can be absolute color/age/gender-blind casting with regard to talent: add general casting diversity, not just restrictions on who may voice what character based on what they look like.

Of course it's more of a problem in live theater when you have Jonathan Pryce playing the Engineer in Miss Saigon in eye prosthetics, but that's a whole other can of worms.

FakeNoose

(32,328 posts)
25. Unfortunately the decision-makers don't think the same way we do
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 12:13 PM
Jun 2020

It's usually the show producers who get to decide how the money will be spent. They prefer to hire "bankable" stars whenever they can afford them. Hank Azaria is certainly bankable, and he's reliably talented in many ways.

In other shows and movies, there have been countless decisions to go with the "famous white guy" rather than the "unknown minority person" way too many times. Often it's not even a question of talent. It's the producer or director evaluating which performer sells more tickets, which performer has more loyal fans.

I agree that cartoons and animated features shouldn't matter, but it makes a difference when the credits roll and famous names come on the screen. It goes back to educating the executive producers (and maybe the directors) who make the hiring decisions.

forgotmylogin

(7,496 posts)
30. It's even weirder in voice-over.
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 12:57 PM
Jun 2020

Voice talent is a specifically insular clique due to the way it is produced. I'm not denying that that's inherently a problem, but I've done a tiny bit of VO and realistically it makes more logistical sense with casting and scheduling to get one person in the booth for an hour who can do ten different voices than it does to cast ten individual artists to come in separately. Plus you have franchises built around people like Seth MacFarlane, where the point is they can do all the voices.

Performers with talent and versatility are highly valued and work constantly, and that's why you have Billy West and Tara Strong and Dan Castellaneta and Tress MacNeille in everything - casting and production knows they can do the work reliably and that has made it hard for others to break in. It's not always so much about a famous name as it is experience and networking and convenience: "we know this person is capable of this exact type of voice we want and we know they work reliably, so we will use them instead of bothering to audition a new person who might produce the exact same results."

The Simpsons is a little bit of an exception because they initially cast recognizable comedians and actors who also happened to be talented voice artists who became huge stars over the 20+ year run of that show. The most internally "famous" voice people often don't don't even do screen work because they can do a different gig every day of the week - often working from their own home! I've seen castings that specifically want VAs who have their own home setups to record themselves because work is done faster, and a performance can be directed remotely so they don't even need to bother scheduling time at a professional recording studio. It makes sense for the person who consistently does the "Coming up next on the Discovery Channel..." bumpers to work at home because they can just send them a script and let them work on recording it in 5-10-30 second versions.

Bob's Burgers is one of the rare exceptions in that the voice artists actually record full scenes together which allows character interaction and comic timing that doesn't usually come across in animation. I can't think of any other animated show that records more than one voice at the same time - except perhaps video games where they use the performers to also do simultaneous motion-capture for the characters.

BumRushDaShow

(127,267 posts)
28. I agree but
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 12:39 PM
Jun 2020

that has been the whole problem with the industry. Unless the individual is a "super star" like Eddie Murphy (who we know has done quite a bit of voice-over work for some pretty big animated films not withstanding the "Shrek" series) or Queen Latifah (who similarly has done voice-overs for animated films like the "Ice Age" franchise), or older-generation actors like Bill Cosby (who created and voiced the animated "Fat Albert" ), Isaac Hayes in "South Park", or the Jacksons and their animated "Jackson 5" series, most everyone else is shut out.

And when they are not hired, they don't get experience to add to their resumes, and when they have little or nothing on the resumes, then they won't be hired for ANY voice role because "no experience". Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Shut out. On purpose.

As I posted before, it's a vicious circle.

Many of us grew up with people like Don Adams, Wally Cox, and Paul Lynde, who all had distinctive voices heard in many animated shows, and coupled with Rich Little, who specialized in impersonations, these actors permeated the psyche of a certain generation within the animated genres.

However the genre itself was devoid of any POC outside of something that is slowly but finally being purged from Disney - "Song of the South", that naturally was designed to perpetuate some of the worst of the stereotypes that came out of "Birth of a Nation" and "Gone with the Wind".



And when Disney, after over 7 decades finally attempted to address the issue, there was still controversy thanks to the higher ups still not "getting it" and expecting that the "public" wouldn't either because dolla dolla bill ya'll... so they "compromised" on many things -



I liked the music selections and setting but sadly most of the film shows our "Princess" as a frog vs as a "Human" and her "Prince" was from somewhere that could not purposely be nailed down because, you sure as hell can't have a black Prince nor can you have a black woman with a white Prince. There would be no other way to maintain supremacy by doing such.

That film, the last that had been done by Disney using traditional and exquisitely detailed hand-drawn animation, did provide work for many black voice actors (and even some animators) such as -





But this country still has a long long long way to go and we have to keep at it, because there is always the snap-back and reversal of fortune that often comes with "ceding power" (see "Reconstruction" and the subsequent pendulum swing of "Jim Crow" ).

mwooldri

(10,291 posts)
22. About gender and voices...
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 11:05 AM
Jun 2020

... there's not many males who can do pre-pubescent male voices well. That's why females often do young boy voices. And sometimes not as young (teenage).

Japanese anime - Japan is a relatively homogeneous society, so for the original Japanese language version of an anime it would be hard to find many non-Japanese voice actors who can do these characters.

For dubbing - a similar situation. How many Japanese with flawless English who can do this in multiple accents are available to the likes of Funimation or Crunchyroll? The guy who founded Funimation is Japanese but he didn't hire Japanese voice actors.

Fortunately there aren't any elves, dragons, monsters or slime in our world, so anyone of any ethnicity can voice these characters.

I feel The Simpsons and other high profile animated productions can afford to take a stand and ensure that the voice behind the character is more aligned in real life with the ethnicity of the character on the screen. I applaud them for doing so.

Smaller studios and dubbing outfits may just not have that option. Dubbing Japanese anime into English can afford non Japanese voice actors as a lot of their anime features characters of Anglo origin or ambiguous ethnic origin, especially with female characters. Smaller English language animation companies may just take who they can get on what budget they have.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
5. It mostly started from this
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 08:33 AM
Jun 2020

The Problem with Apu

The Problem with Apu is a 2017 documentary film written by and starring comedian Hari Kondabolu and produced and directed by Michael Melamedoff. The film focuses on the character Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, an Indian immigrant in the animated sitcom The Simpsons who, for a period, was the only figure of South Asian heritage to appear regularly on mainstream U.S. television. The film explores encounters with negative stereotypes, racial microaggressions, and slurs against people of Indian and South Asian heritage disseminated through the character.

Kondabolu grew up watching The Simpsons and cites it as a major influence on his comedy and cultural savvy. Initially, he liked the character Apu because the character was the only representation of his family's culture regularly aired on television in the United States. Kondabolu told the BBC, "Apu was the only Indian we had on TV at all so I was happy for any representation as a kid." As he grew older, Kondabolu became more critical of Apu, saying, "he's funny, but that doesn’t mean this representation is accurate or right or righteous. It gets to the insidiousness of racism, though, because you don’t even notice it when it’s right in front of you."[2]

According to Kondabolu, his mother taught him that "you can criticize something you love because you expect more from it."[3] His first public critique of The Simpsons character came at the insistence of W. Kamau Bell during the first season of his FX television show Totally Biased.[4] In 2012 Kondabolu worked as a writer on the show, and Bell heard him railing against Apu for fomenting racial stereotypes about Indians. Bell then told Kondabolu that if he did not write it into a stand up comedy routine and perform it on the show, Bell would fire him.[5] In his bit, Kondabolu criticizes voice actor Hank Azaria (who is of Sephardic Jewish descent), calling him "a white guy doing an impression of a white guy making fun of my father." Kondabolu went on to cite other portrayals of South Asians in mainstream television and film—such as a man eating monkey brains in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom and an actor petting a stuffed mongoose in a metroPCS commercial—as racist.[6] Kondabolu eventually decided to expand the one-minute segment about Apu into an hour-long documentary.[7]

In a 2015 interview Azaria acknowledged the character's impact as fodder for widespread racially motivated bullying that targets children with South Asian heritage.[8] Kondabolu reached out to Azaria to be interviewed for the film, but Azaria declined for fear that his words would be manipulated by the film's editing process. He agreed to have a discussion facilitated either by Terry Gross on the public radio program Fresh Air or on Marc Maron's podcast WTF but according to Kondabolu, Azaria rescinded the offer once it was accepted.[9]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Problem_with_Apu

I guess things become a problem when they slip into harmful stereotypes. Anyways this is up to The Simpsons creators.

FreddyWhite

(69 posts)
10. and those jokes aren't okay either
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 08:56 AM
Jun 2020

most comedy is written by young white males who are clueless about the insensitive racist and sexist jokes they write.

FreddyWhite

(69 posts)
12. it sucks to have very little representation of your own culture
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 09:02 AM
Jun 2020

and kids bully based on the caricatures they see in cartoons and in the media. No one should be writing characters and jokes about other cultures unless they have educated themselves well on that culture. It is White Privilege to be able to make jokes about people from other cultures. And then when people from that culture say "that's not okay, that is insensitive and it is hurtful," the racially sensitive response would be "I'm very sorry, I was not aware. I would like to learn more about your experience and those from your community."

BumRushDaShow

(127,267 posts)
7. But certain groups already have pernicious stereotypes that have been ingrained
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 08:44 AM
Jun 2020

in this society for centuries that have yet to be dealt with, and there has been little in the entertainment industry that has been developed to offset that compared to what the white/European-descended cultures already have that is non-stereotypical.

Tom and Jerry was "just" a fucking cartoon too -





DeminPennswoods

(15,246 posts)
8. I'm not offended by "Fat Tony"
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 08:49 AM
Jun 2020

and his crew of misfit mafioso.

There are plenty of things about which to be genuinely offended, but 60+ yr old cartoons and the Simpson's aren't two of them.

BumRushDaShow

(127,267 posts)
11. I would be
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 08:58 AM
Jun 2020

because one of the issues often brought up by Italians as they have continued to "assimilate" here, is the continued constant drum-beat of the "mafia" stereotype.

Other than the Eastern Europeans who have generally been the most recent to come here, Italians were some of the latest European ethnic groups to come en masse, to this country, and they are still dealing with the continued harm from the ridiculous European ethnic rivalries and culture wars that go on. And this is why all the Columbus statues are around today, because those were bones thrown to them to acknowledge the harassment, despite Columbus' checkered past.

Every culture knows how to "make fun" of themselves and they often do so within their own circles all the time. However when other cultures attempt to do it "for them", they will almost always fall short.

IronLionZion

(45,250 posts)
17. The problem is many have grown up with only this stereotype
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 09:49 AM
Jun 2020

since there haven't been positive depictions in pop culture to balance it out.

If something isn't a problem for you personally, it can still be a problem for someone else.

redgreenandblue

(2,088 posts)
9. This is so stupid.
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 08:51 AM
Jun 2020

It is literally a push for racial apartheid.

I wonder how exactly they determine who qualifies for a speaking role according to the new rules. Could Barack Obama, who has a white mother, voice a black character? Do you have to submit a family tree or do they measure your skin tone according to some scale?

FreddyWhite

(69 posts)
13. that's not the point
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 09:03 AM
Jun 2020

they should have a racially/ethnically mixed group of writers. The majority of people of color would have let the writers know that this character is offensive.

IronLionZion

(45,250 posts)
16. It's more about diversity and inclusion of non-white actors
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 09:46 AM
Jun 2020

who have faced discrimination in the entertainment industry and blocked out from many roles

yardwork

(61,408 posts)
23. And your post is an example of majority privilege.
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 11:13 AM
Jun 2020

It's past time for us white folks to listen and learn, rather than make knee jerk pronouncements about what is and isn't "stupid."

Boomer

(4,159 posts)
26. We already have racial apartheid
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 12:13 PM
Jun 2020

White actors voice almost all roles, white and minority.

When we reach the point where minority actors are allowed to voice white parts, there won't be so much consternation when they take the minority roles as well.

Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Boomer

(4,159 posts)
27. Writing comes first, then acting
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 12:19 PM
Jun 2020

It's not enough to change the actors if the underlying scripts are all written from the perspective of young white men. Their idea of what is "funny" about minorities is going to be skewed and can easily slide from tongue-in-cheek parody to outright racism.

I feel the same way about depictions of gay people written and/or acted by straight writers and actors. All too often they miss the nuances and layers that infuse stereotypes. The alternative, however, is to be completely erased. So I've learned to accept awkward, inauthentic portrayals as the price we pay just to see images of ourselves in the media.

appalachiablue

(41,047 posts)
31. This sounds like a good step, now I hope they're more
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 01:57 PM
Jun 2020

open minded than to keep stereotyping groups with the oldest worst aspects. Namely, non-urban, mostly more rural characters portrayed with stale, negative images of buck toothed, dumb, freckled redhead hicks.

I haven't followed that show for some time, but it's what I observed when I did catch it occasionally.

BlueStater

(7,596 posts)
32. Dumb.
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 02:22 PM
Jun 2020

The advantage of voice acting, as opposed to conventional acting, is that the physical appearance of an actor is always completely irrelevant to their ability to perform a role. As long as their voice fits the character, that’s all you need.

This isn’t blackface. It’s just doing a voice. I understand there’s heightened sensitivity to the mistreatment of minorities right now, but stuff like this is just asinine.

Also, Harry Shearer isn’t gay, so he has no right to voice Smithers anymore. Better recast him as well.

 

HotTeaBag

(1,206 posts)
33. I agree.
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 02:40 PM
Jun 2020

They should just hire the best person (or voice in this case) for the role.

If the actor is white, great. If the actor is black, great. If the actor is gay, great. Etc., etc.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,282 posts)
35. I wonder if this would have been necessary if ...
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 06:19 PM
Jun 2020

... if an African-American or a Hispanic actor had been voicing Apu.

Now they'll have to do a talent search to see if there's anyone from India who can get the accent down.

 

RhodeIslandOne

(5,042 posts)
38. Doctor Hibbert and Carl might as well be white
Sun Jun 28, 2020, 07:28 AM
Jun 2020

Hibbert is merely a wink at Bill Cosby's Doctor Huxtable (which may be a bigger reason to phase him out of the show) and Carl's being black has never been really referenced I don't believe.

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