Antibody levels in recovered COVID-19 patients decline quickly

[Mrs. Overall]

Source: Reuters

Levels of an antibody found in recovered COVID-19 patients fell sharply in 2-3 months after infection for both symptomatic and asymptomatic patients, according to a Chinese study, raising questions about the length of any immunity against the novel coronavirus.

The research, published in Nature Medicine on June 18, highlights the risks of using COVID-19 ‘immunity passports’ and supports the prolonged use of public health interventions such as social distancing and isolating high-risk groups, researchers said.

Health authorities in some countries such as Germany are debating the ethics and practicalities of allowing people who test positive for antibodies to move more freely than others who don’t.

The research, which studied 37 symptomatic patients and 37 asymptomatic patients, found that of those who tested positive for the presence of the IgG antibody, one of the main types of antibodies induced after infection, over 90% showed sharp declines in 2-3 months.

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-antibody-idUSKBN23T1CJ

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This is also what happens in terms of the common cold, which is also a coronavirus.

[still_one]

1. If valid, this implies that a vaccine won't be the answer. A treatment will be.

[Mrs. Overall]

3. I think that's correct. There is still no vaccine for these coronaviruses: SARS, MERS, and

the common cold.

[El Supremo]

17. Most common colds are a rhinovirus.

The four main classes of viruses are:

human rhinoviruses
coronaviruses
parainfluenza viruses
adenoviruses

[Mrs. Overall]

18. Yes. Rhinovirus accounts for 10% - 40% and Coronavirus accounts for 20%

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_causes

[beachbumbob]

2. I suspect any info out of China without verification elsewhere

[luvtheGWN]

8. I think the Chinese would like a vaccine as much as any of us.

Even though it's a small study, others will follow from other countries when enough weeks have passed. It's a coronavirus, and, has been said, there have been no vaccines ever developed for that type of virus. Why would Covid-19 be that much different?

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

15. Good question . . .

. . . the answer to which is that people are desperate and put hope over reason.

But you are right. There is no reason to assume that a safe and effective vaccine will be developed any time soon, if ever.

[2naSalit]

4. Crucial information!

[roamer65]

5. We need a monoclonal antibody therapy STAT.

Not a vaccine...if this research is accurate.

We need to approach this virus as we did Ebola.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

26. I think that is what makes Trump think he's invincible

He might be undergoing prophylactic treatment with monoclonal antibodies or counting on them to neutralize the virus if he gets infected

[Ms. Toad]

45. Those are targeted therapies.

you can't just throw any -mab at the problem and solve it. (If you could, we'd have heard of reports of it working - for example when people on remidicade (infliximab), entivyo (vedolizumab), humira (adalimumab), etc. come down with COVID 19 someone would have noticed if it provided miraculous protection.)

[Drahthaardogs]

50. You are correct. It doesn't work that way.

They have already identified the antibodies that seem to be effective. That doesn't mean a treatment already exists.

[Baitball Blogger]

6. Which means we'll never get herd immunity.

[LizBeth]

7. Well. That's not good. What do you do with a cold? Ride it out. Sometimes it takes you down, and

Last edited Mon Jun 22, 2020, 11:21 AM - Edit history (1)

sometimes it is just a heavy head and lots of nose blowing.

Not good at all.

[Laelth]

10. This is why it's unlikely we will get a vaccine for COVID-19.

I don’t think we have ever been able to create a vaccine for a coronavirus.

-Laelth

[LizBeth]

12. I certainly can't isolate forever. I am in better position than a lot of people.

I really want to get to fall and see what happens then. But fug, this is a problem. Even with mental health for some. I am not concerned about me, but two people I have yelled out at while walking dog seems to be having a really tough time.

Young, not so problematic. but over 50, there are going ot be concerns, fiscally and health wise.

[Laelth]

20. I am fairly certain we will develop treatments.

It’s the same for the common cold (which is also a coronavirus). We have treatments for it, but we can’t cure it, and there’s no vaccine for it. SARS-CoV-2 is, in essence, a bad-to-the-bone coronavirus. I expect to see new treatment drugs for it, but not a vaccine.

-Laelth

[LizBeth]

22. Right. Maybe they can come up with a more effective treatment for covid seeing results can be

much more deadly or damaging but treatment for cold? I know they have things on the market, but more to appease and comfort in a belief that it makes it better, rather than actually doing anything. High dosage of Vit C has come out to help with covid. And it is something we do for a cold. So there is that. Intersting. Thanks Laelth. I no they have a drug that has helped the really affected people. Starts with an r, can't remember the name, NOT want Trump recommended.

Also I figure that is why deaths are going down, they better understand covid and how to treat so I think that has already become more effective.

[Laelth]

23. Treatments for COVID-19 will probably be only marginally effective.

There’s not much we can do with a coronavirus but ride it out. The virus will self-select for weaker strains as the more virulent strains kill their hosts (and then are no longer spread). We’ll all get this thing, sooner or later, just as we all get the common cold. We will never be completely immune, just as we are never completely immune to the common cold. It’s a coronavirus. We can’t beat it. We will slowly, collectively build partial immunity to it. Our treatments will focus on ameliorating the symptoms.

That seems the most likely outcome to me.



-Laelth

[LizBeth]

31. Thanks for a reality based conversation. In this world, that is always appreciated.

[Laelth]

33. You are most welcome. n/t

-Laelth

[Sucha NastyWoman]

29. Do we have a treatment for the common cold, or do we just relieve some of the synptoms?

But then I doubt the common cold ever did the kind of damage I saw that corona virus did to lung
tissue

[Laelth]

32. We mainly treat the symptoms of the common cold, afaik.

Vitamin C is a treatment, for example. It helps the body fight the virus. SARS-CoV-2 is a new, highly dangerous and destructive coronavirus, but it’s still possible that we may be able to develop actual treatments that can aid the body in fighting the virus. Or, maybe not, and we will continue to focus on treating just the symptoms.

But a vaccine? I doubt it.



-Laelth

[Roc2020]

9. Implications are stunning

means anyone can get re-infected one year to next or even within the the same year. means crowds are now forever dangerous. means this cautious paranoid existence with Cov19 is forever. just awful

[Scruffy1]

11. We will find out in the near future.

One small study is only the beginning. I am sure there is a whole lot of research going on world wide.

[lark]

13. Fucking damn bad news - again.

Hell, I really want a vaccine, may have been counting on it too much. I retired to travel and now can't travel safely at all and am totally bummed. I know, middle class white privilege, but I worked really hard and really long hours for many years to save for this and now that I have the time, travel has become way too risky and looks to be that way for possibly a long time. Such a bummer.

[El Supremo]

14. You have other cells that "remember" the virus...

and produce more antibodies quickly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/health/coronavirus-antibodies.html

[Silver1]

16. Antibodies aren't the only relevant number

The immune system is also comprised of B cells, which "remember" past infections. If a person is re-infected, B cells can mount a quick response and produce the needed antibodies again quickly.

This is also something being studied. I hope it's strongly the case with Covid19.

[pazzyanne]

24. Except for people like me with a fatal autoimmune disease.

The treatment for putting me in remission is killing B cells. Looks like I will continue to be isolated until I get tired of living. That sucks.

[Silver1]

46. I'm sorry to hear you have complications like this to worry about and deal with.

I keep remembering there are about 100 medical labs across the globe working on coming up with a vaccine and treatments. Something like this has never happened before. It's unprecedented, and the odds are really good that we'll have a solution to this pandemic sooner rather than later. The world will breathe a huge sigh of relief.

[Blasphemer]

19. I suspect the final answer will be a yearly (or even bi-yearly) vaccine plus treatments... nt

[BarbD]

21. There is too much unknown about this virus

to make any assumptions. Bummer!

[Warpy]

25. They won't know what this means unless people get reinfected

Our immune systems retain memories of previous infections, so that when we're reinfected with something, the system starts pumping out the antibodies it learned to make with the last infection, and if we are symptomatic at all, those symptoms are far milder during subsequent infections.

This is what they don't know yet. Some things persist in the memory cells for life, others fade after a few years.

[Crowman2009]

27. Well there goes Sweden's theory!

Herd immunity only works if the vast majority of the population is vaccinated.

[wnylib]

28. So covid 19 is like a deadlier form of a cold?

That's scary.

[Laelth]

30. Basically, yes.

To my knowledge, no vaccine has yet been created for ANY coronavirus. You can be reinfected with a coronavirus, but the symptoms are (generally) less severe each time you are infected. There is no cure. You just have to ride it out—much like the common cold—and treat the symptoms.

-Laelth

[Neerav B. Trivedi]

35. So in other words

THERE IS NO HOPE AND WE ARE ALL DOOMED TO DIE!!!

[Laelth]

36. No. Most of us will survive.

Just don’t pin your hopes on a vaccine.

-Laelth

[Steelrolled]

40. You are right!

We are unable to make advances in medicine and vaccines. The history is so clear. Just think of how we

- tried to create a vaccine for smallpox when one never existed before
- tried to land on the moon when no-one had even gotten close before
- tried to save a life by transplanting a replacement organ into some, never done before
- tried to create targeted treatments for a wide range of cancers, never done before

With covid-19 it is even more obvious. It is all so well understood, that you have to wonder why we are wasting our time.

/s

[a la izquierda]

47. We're all doomed to die of something. Nt

[Igel]

42. Not for trying.

SARS has no vaccine. Then again, it was squashed ... And producing a vaccine for a virus that's not in the community is pointless.

If somebody made 100 million smallpox vaccine doses a year these days, we'd call him a fool.

MERS, not much difference.

SARS-CoV-2's out. Eradicating it is probably not going to happen. Might could. Risky making that assumption, though.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

34. Just because antibody levels decline quickly may not necessarily

mean the person loses all resistance. Others here have pointed out other things, which are interesting.

It may well be that we are living through an apocalypse, and this won't finally be over until at least 90% of people on the planet have gotten this, died or gotten over it and retain enough immunity to provide herd immunity. Perhaps we will have to learn to live in a world our ancestors lived in, where people got sick and died quite readily. One where scary and fatal diseases cropped up periodically and there was nothing you could do.

However, as naive as this might be, I am holding out hope for a vaccine.

[wnylib]

38. I think I'd place my hopes on a treatment.

For example, I am vulnerable to viral bronchitis. I get very bad cases of it and get frequent, daily asthma attacks until I get over it. But if I get bronchitis, I can lessen the asthma effects by using my inhalers. And for me, a Z Pack works miracles in getting over the bronchitis.

So it might be that we just have to live with covid 19 and count on improved treatments and meds to stay alive and recover from it.

[ProfessorGAC]

37. Flu Antibodies Last 6 Months Or Less

Memory B cells last far longer.
They specifically mention the memory cells but don't mention if they even tested for their existence.
This is another case of publishing inconclusive work prematurely.

[Igel]

43. Hope and optimism doesn't cell.

Sure death, that gets clicks.

[ProfessorGAC]

44. Good Point

But, the researchers are professionals. They should no better.
No press release, no doom & gloom to sell.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

48. I wonder if flu antibodies really only last 6 months.

I realize my own personal experience doesn't mean anything for anyone else, but the fact that I haven't gotten a flu in about 45 years makes me wonder. I did get flu a fair number of times in childhood, including the 1957 Asian flu.

My experience aside, it's become clear in recent years that getting a flu shot every single year is not necessarily the best way to do it. Getting one every other year for most people seems to provide a better immunity.

[ProfessorGAC]

49. It's Supposed To Be About The Memory B Cells

The theory seems to be that those help the body "remember" how to make the right antigens.
So, what I read is that we don't need the active antibodies to still have a viable defense against specific pathogens.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

52. Right. There's a lot that's known, and probably a lot more that's not known

about our immune systems and how they work. For instance, we are born already having immunities to all sorts of things, thanks to evolution.

[EllieBC]

51. That's what my GP said as well when I asked about flu shot timing.

I asked her why on the East Coast where my family lives is the flu shot available in September and here on the West Coast it is not available until November. She responded that our flu season tends to start later and last later and that if we got our flu shots in September they would not be as effective when flu season was still raging here in March.

[Steelrolled]

39. Who knows what the actual effect of this finding is.

We do have lots of speculation by armchair virologists to choose from.