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Sun May 24, 2020, 04:27 PM

Cuomo says New York followed federal guidelines when sending coronavirus patients to nursing homes

Source: CNN

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's office deflected questions about a report from The Associated Press that the state sent more than 4,500 patients recovering from coronavirus to nursing homes by saying they followed guidance from federal agencies.

"I just want to reiterate once again that the policy that the Department of Health put out was in line directly with the March 13 directive put out by (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) and (Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services) that read, and I quote, 'Nursing homes should admit any individuals from hospitals where Covid is present,'" said Secretary to the Governor Melissa DeRosa on Saturday during a briefing. "Not could, should ... that is President (Donald) Trump's CMS and CDC.

"There are over a dozen states that did the exact same thing, many of whom were concerned about hospital capacity. ... Obviously any death is an unfortunate death," DeRosa said, listing the totals from other states amongst New York's. "It's been a national and international tragedy that everybody has had to grapple with and it is something that we're trying to learn from every day and move forward."

Cuomo, a Democrat, said later in the briefing that he was trying to depoliticize the issue by saying, "New York followed the President's agency's guidance, so that de-politicizes it. What New York did was follow what the Republican administration said to do.

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/23/politics/cuomo-new-york-nursing-homes-coronavirus-patients/index.html

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Reply Cuomo says New York followed federal guidelines when sending coronavirus patients to nursing homes (Original post)
alp227 May 2020 OP
pwb May 2020 #1
alp227 May 2020 #4
LisaL May 2020 #2
Sanity Claws May 2020 #3
Igel May 2020 #5
LisaL May 2020 #8
AtheistCrusader May 2020 #44
cstanleytech May 2020 #6
LisaL May 2020 #7
cstanleytech May 2020 #12
LisaL May 2020 #15
Steelrolled May 2020 #9
LisaL May 2020 #10
Steelrolled May 2020 #11
MichMan May 2020 #13
LisaL May 2020 #14
MichMan May 2020 #17
Kaleva May 2020 #19
LisaL May 2020 #20
Kaleva May 2020 #23
MichMan May 2020 #21
LisaL May 2020 #22
Kaleva May 2020 #24
LisaL May 2020 #25
Kaleva May 2020 #26
LisaL May 2020 #27
Kaleva May 2020 #28
LisaL May 2020 #30
Kaleva May 2020 #31
LisaL May 2020 #33
MichMan May 2020 #41
LisaL May 2020 #29
Kaleva May 2020 #32
LisaL May 2020 #35
Kaleva May 2020 #34
LisaL May 2020 #36
Kaleva May 2020 #37
LisaL May 2020 #38
LisaL May 2020 #46
Kaleva May 2020 #47
tiredtoo May 2020 #40
DeminPennswoods May 2020 #16
LisaL May 2020 #18
EllieBC May 2020 #39
DeminPennswoods May 2020 #45
MichMan May 2020 #42
name not needed May 2020 #43

Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 04:37 PM

1. Sounds right. Trumps appointees have been running the show for 3 years and six months.

Time they did very little with.

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Response to pwb (Reply #1)

Sun May 24, 2020, 04:50 PM

4. They were supposed to know about coronavirus in 2017?

That is a stretch.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 04:40 PM

2. Most other states did not do the same thing.

It's not a good idea to send patients with covid into the most vulnerable population. They weren't just telling nursing homes to admit patients form hospitals where covid was present, they were telling nursing homes to admit actual covid patients that were discharged from hospitals.
As for following federal guidelines-if Trump told him to go off jump of the bridge, would he do it?

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Response to LisaL (Reply #2)

Sun May 24, 2020, 04:47 PM

3. Other states didn't have the hospital capacity issue NY had

NY had serious hospital capacity issues. Tents had to be set up in parks. The Convention Center was set up to handle COVID patients because the hospitals were beyond capacity.
Comparing NYS to other states is like trying to compare apples to pineapples.

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Response to Sanity Claws (Reply #3)

Sun May 24, 2020, 04:54 PM

5. Get the timeline right.

That early on there were no issues.

There was hysteria--they'd need 30k, 40k ventilators, and that was scientific fact like "models"--but that early there was a lot of spare capacity.

And saying, "It wasn't us, it was the Republicans" hardly depoliticizes anything. Esp. when some of those making the claim also strongly suggested that they knew in early January how bad this was going to be and how infectious it was.

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Response to Igel (Reply #5)

Sun May 24, 2020, 05:32 PM

8. They also had a big ship they could have taken the covid patients to.

Hardly used as far as I can tell.
What pisses me off is that relatives are not allowed into nursing homes for the fear relatives will spread covid. Yet patients with covid were ordered to be accepted by the nursing homes at least in New York and several other states.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #8)

Mon May 25, 2020, 07:35 AM

44. They were not allowed to. The Federal Government controls the Comfort and Mercy, and they were

in place only to accept normal trauma cases. Broken bones, gunshot wounds, things like that. (Things that military doctors are actually really good at handling.)

This policy barrier made the ships useless. Before entering the ship, you had to test negative for Covid-19. This isn't a super useful thing to require, when someone is bleeding out in front of you.

Trump wins multiple ways on this one. All kinds of manufactured fanfare about the ships being deployed. Never mind that they were under-staffed and under-equipped, being mid-refit when they got the orders to go. Because of the constraints on their use, they didn't actually have to help anyone, which is apparently Trump's prime directive. And when they left, under-utilized, Trump gets to blame the states that 'didn't use them' and or 'clearly didn't need them'.

Donald Trump's reality distortion field is, frankly, astounding. It's always JUST ENOUGH to please his base, even if it means thousands of dead. Think about how the headlines play; 'tens of thousands of new yorkers dead'. How does that play to a red-hat-wearing trump supporter? New York is a solidly blue state. Swap 'new yorkers' with 'liberals', and then you can probably sense the glee such a person would feel, reading that headline. They simply aren't playing the same game the rest of us are. Their motives are alien to ours.

Anyway, here's an article why the Comfort and Mercy were nothing more than Trump publicity stunts, that he totally got away with. Edit: The criteria I described above was the 'early' plan for using these ships, and the military field hospitals. That they would take the normal trauma stuff, and the hospitals could focus on Covid-19 victims. By the time this article below was written, the policy started to change to include Covid victims, but as you will see, they constrained the transfer of patients so much, it still didn't matter.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/09/usns-comfort-and-javits-center-mostly-empty-amid-coronavirus/

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 05:06 PM

6. Assuming they were screening the people transferred by testing them to make sure

the virus was gone I do not see a problem.
Of course for added safety they should also quarantine them for about 2 to 3 weeks but otherwise I do not see this story as being a big deal.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #6)

Sun May 24, 2020, 05:23 PM

7. Nope, they weren't screening.

They reversed the policy recently, but originally they required nursing homes to take in patients even if those patients had covid.
"New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo unveiled a requirement for hospital patients to test negative for the coronavirus before they can be discharged to nursing homes, effectively reversing a much-criticized state policy that required long-term care facilities to accept recovering patients who may still test positive for COVID-19."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-york-will-no-longer-require-nursing-homes-take-covid-n1204586

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Response to LisaL (Reply #7)

Sun May 24, 2020, 06:11 PM

12. Very foolish then.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #12)

Sun May 24, 2020, 06:57 PM

15. Sure is.

It's a highly contagious airborne infection that is very hard to control. When you send a covid positive patient into the nursing home with vulnerable population, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what is going to happen.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 05:47 PM

9. He said he was "trying to depoliticize the issue"

LOL.

No surprise he is finger pointing -- that is what people do -- but to say he is trying to depoliticize the issue is BS.

I have not been impressed with Cuomo. To be fair, I think it was fate that NY was going to get hit hard, so I'm not sure what he could have done. But his stupid fight with de Blasio over a NYC "shelter in place" really put me off.

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Response to Steelrolled (Reply #9)

Sun May 24, 2020, 05:49 PM

10. New York was going to get hit hard, but sending covid positive patients into nursing homes

was an obvious recipe for disaster that didn't have to happen. Nursing home patients were the people that we should have been protecting better than this.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #10)

Sun May 24, 2020, 05:57 PM

11. That is true.

I don't know the time frame of when this happened. There was a panic at the start -- everyone was looking at Italy, and it was a "fog of war" environment. But now that we are past that, Cuomo needs to take responsibility for his actions. He can claim that he made the best decision at the time, with the information he had, and point to CDC recommendations, and I would respect that. But the buck stopped with him.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 06:14 PM

13. Same policy in Michigan

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Response to MichMan (Reply #13)

Sun May 24, 2020, 06:56 PM

14. In what Universe does it even make sense?

Nursing homes are preventing relatives from visiting for fear it will spread covid. Yet covid positive patients are sent right to the nursing homes?

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Response to LisaL (Reply #14)

Sun May 24, 2020, 08:57 PM

17. Nursing homes were told they were required to accept any positive cases that were sent to them

Governor Whitmer has refused to comment, but the policy ended abruptly a few days ago when she started getting a lot of criticism over it.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #14)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:20 PM

19. Here is a link to Whitmer's order" Executive Order 2020-50 (COVID-19)"

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #19)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:26 PM

20. Oh I know it was done.

I am just saying it didn't make sense to order nursing homes to take in covid positive patients.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #20)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:31 PM

23. Whitmer ordered that nursing homes not equipped to handle COVID-19 cases to transfer the resident

"If the long-term care facility does not have a dedicated unit or does not provide appropriate PPE to the direct-care employees who staff the dedicated unit, it must transfer the COVID-19-affected resident to a regional hub, if one is available to accept the resident. If no regional hub is available to accept the transfer of the COVID-19-affected resident, the long-term care facility must attempt to send the resident to a hospital within the state that has available bed capacity. If no hospital will admit the COVID-19-affected resident, the long-term care facility must transfer the resident to an alternate care facility."

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90705-525942--,00.html

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #19)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:28 PM

21. Yep, Item # I-2

"A long-term care facility must not prohibit admission or readmission of a resident based on COVID-19 testing requirements or results in a manner that is inconsistent with relevant guidance issued by the Department of Health and Human Services (“DHHS” ) "

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Response to MichMan (Reply #21)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:29 PM

22. I guess they had good intentions-to make sue these people

had a place to go. A road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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Response to MichMan (Reply #21)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:33 PM

24. Only if the nursing home had a dedicated unit that could handle COVID-19 residents

"If the long-term care facility does not have a dedicated unit or does not provide appropriate PPE to the direct-care employees who staff the dedicated unit, it must transfer the COVID-19-affected resident to a regional hub, if one is available to accept the resident. If no regional hub is available to accept the transfer of the COVID-19-affected resident, the long-term care facility must attempt to send the resident to a hospital within the state that has available bed capacity. If no hospital will admit the COVID-19-affected resident, the long-term care facility must transfer the resident to an alternate care facility."

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90705-525942--,00.html

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #24)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:41 PM

25. What do you think a regional hub is?

They are units within nursing homes, full or residents that haven't tested positive.

"In Michigan, the state has selected about 20 facilities to take on these patients. As of today, all of them exist as separate units within nursing homes, many of whose residents have not tested positive for COVID."

https://www.michiganradio.org/post/families-question-safety-state-plan-elderly-covid-patients

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Response to LisaL (Reply #25)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:46 PM

26. Again, the COVID-19 residents have to be housed in a seperate unit

If you read Whitmer's order, you'll see that there are some rather strict requirements.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #26)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:52 PM

27. All righty then.

By the way the video of 20 year old guy who was beating up a patient in Michigan-apparently 20 year old was rehabbing for covid. Was the 20 year old in a separate unit? Then how did he get to 75 year old to beat him up?
"He said his son was recently moved to the nursing center because the 20-year-old was diagnosed with COVID-19 at the University of Michigan Hospital."
https://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detroit/20-year-old-beating-suspect-was-moved-to-nursing-home-because-he-has-covid-19-says-father

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Response to LisaL (Reply #27)

Sun May 24, 2020, 10:13 PM

28. Family of victim want to know why he was taken from his apt and placed in a that home.

" Relatives of the 75-year-old man who was brutally beaten inside the Westwood Nursing Center began to suspect something was wrong because they couldn't get in touch with him and they said neither could staffers at the Veterans Hospital.

What they now know is that, for some reason, the Army veteran was taken from his apartment in Detroit to the Westwood Nursing Center on Schaefer on the city's west side."

https://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detroit/20-year-old-beating-suspect-was-moved-to-nursing-home-because-he-has-covid-19-says-father

While the father of the attacker said his son had tested positive for COVID-19 and was moved to the nursing home because of that, there is this:

" Both were residents of the nursing home, though Hayden “is not a long-term resident of Westwood, but he was recently admitted for recovery and rehabilitation purposes on a temporary stay,” according to a statement from the nursing home’s attorneys."

https://abc17news.com/news/national-world/2020/05/24/man-accused-of-beating-75-year-old-in-detroit-nursing-home-pleads-not-guilty-to-assault-and-other-charges/

Edit: I haven't been able to find any source that confirms that the attacker, or the victim, had tested positive for COVID-19

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #28)

Sun May 24, 2020, 10:18 PM

30. Recovery and rehab purposes doesn't exclude rehabbing for covid.

But this 20 year old (whose father claims his son had covid) was placed with 75 year old (the same room) whose family was unaware of any covid diagnosis. Now the family is 75 year old are concerned that not only he got beat up, but that he was exposed to covid while at that nursing facility.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #30)

Sun May 24, 2020, 10:29 PM

31. The attacker was placed in home because of a 911 call

Father said he was then diagnosed for COVID-19 and was supposed to be transferred to another facility to be quarantined.

"He claimed that his son was put in the facility after a 911 call, but he was meant to be moved after a COVID-19 diagnosis."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/patient-beat-elderly-man-suffers-mental-issues

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #31)

Sun May 24, 2020, 10:38 PM

33. Son was in a group home.

Started hearing voices. Son was taken to hospital, diagnosed with covid, then send to the nursing home for rehab-per the father.
"He said his son was recently moved to the nursing center because the 20-year-old was diagnosed with COVID-19 at the University of Michigan Hospital."
https://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detroit/20-year-old-beating-suspect-was-moved-to-nursing-home-because-he-has-covid-19-says-father

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #28)

Mon May 25, 2020, 01:07 AM

41. Perpetrator posted a video of the beating on his social media

and stole credit cards from the victim

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Response to LisaL (Reply #27)

Sun May 24, 2020, 10:15 PM

29. Actually it's pretty bizarre.

Father of the attacker claims his son was send to nursing home because he had covid. The 20 year old and 75 year old were placed in the same room. Family of 75 year old are unaware of covid, so seems like the nursing home placed a 20 year old covid patient with a 75 year old non-covid patient?

"I have not heard that," Kevin said of the suspect's alleged COVID-19 status."
https://www.wxyz.com/news/family-of-man-beaten-in-detroit-nursing-home-demands-answers

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Response to LisaL (Reply #29)

Sun May 24, 2020, 10:30 PM

32. Other articales say the son was placed in the home becasue of a 911 call.

Father said he was then diagnosed for COVID-19 and was supposed to be transferred to another facility to be quarantined.

"He claimed that his son was put in the facility after a 911 call, but he was meant to be moved after a COVID-19 diagnosis."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/patient-beat-elderly-man-suffers-mental-issues

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #32)

Sun May 24, 2020, 10:41 PM

35. That story is scrambled a bit.

Son was in a group home. Son called 911. Seems after that son was diagnosed with covid and send to nursing home for rehab.
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/father-of-20-year-old-patient-who-beat-elderly-man-at-detroit-nursing-home-says-son-shouldnt-have-been-there

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Response to LisaL (Reply #29)

Sun May 24, 2020, 10:40 PM

34. I think the nursing home screwed up palcing the young man in the same room as the elderly man

Given the young man's history of mental issues. And i think there was no sense of urgency in moving the young man to another facility once he tested positive for COVID-19.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #34)

Sun May 24, 2020, 10:43 PM

36. The best I can figure out, the nursing home is where 20 year old was placed after covid diagnosis.

Originally he was in a group home.
"The father, who asked not to be identified, said his son has had several health issues growing home, has autism, and called from a group home in Chelsea last week to say he wasn't sleeping, was feeling anxious, and hearing voices."
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/father-of-20-year-old-patient-who-beat-elderly-man-at-detroit-nursing-home-says-son-shouldnt-have-been-there

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Response to LisaL (Reply #36)

Sun May 24, 2020, 11:02 PM

37. I'm confused about the timeline but it is late!


Article below was published two days ago May 24.

"The father, who asked not to be identified, said his son has had several health issues growing home, has autism, and called from a group home in Chelsea last week to say he wasn't sleeping, was feeling anxious, and hearing voices.

"I just don't want people to think that he's this vicious individual. He's got mental issues," his father said.

He said his son called 911 and was taken to a mental health facility in Ann Arbor. Last Wednesday, he was diagnosed with COVID-19 and said he was supposed to be taken to another facility to be quarantined. "

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/father-of-20-year-old-patient-who-beat-elderly-man-at-detroit-nursing-home-says-son-shouldnt-have-been-there

The attack happened on May 15 and he was arrested on May 21. If the above article is accurate, the son was tested on May 13, two days before the attack. I do not know when the son was admitted to the nursing home.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #37)

Sun May 24, 2020, 11:08 PM

38. Well, father says son was living a in group home until quite recently.

Son ended up calling 911, taken to a hospital/mental health facility and testing positive for covid. Seems nursing home accepted him as one of those covid patients they were supposed to accept. So then son beats up his 75 year old roommate, whose family is totally unaware of anyone being diagnosed with covid.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #37)

Mon May 25, 2020, 12:05 PM

46. Here is an article that makes the timeline clear.

20 year old was living in a group home. 20 year old started hearing voices, was moved to a hospital. He was then moved to that nursing home after being diagnosed with covid. Where he was apparently placed in the same room as a 75 year old. Family of 75 year old say they had no idea of any covid diagnoses. So was this 20 year old placed in the same room as a 75 year old without covid? If so, the nursing home has a lot of explaining to do.

"The suspect’s father says because his son was diagnosed with COVID-19, he was brought to the nursing home to quarantine and recover."

https://www.wsav.com/news/national-news/man-arrested-in-brutal-beating-of-veteran-at-nursing-home-caught-on-video/

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Response to LisaL (Reply #46)

Mon May 25, 2020, 01:40 PM

47. Thanks!

Events seemed to have moved quickly. The son called 911 sometime on the 10th, 11th or 12th. After being admitted to the hospital, he was diagnosed with COVID-19 on the 13th. Then he was quickly transferred to the nursing home as he attacked his roommate there on the 15th.

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Response to MichMan (Reply #13)

Mon May 25, 2020, 12:24 AM

40. And some are getting

all over the governors ass for doing this. It is not pretty here.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 07:44 PM

16. Same thing happened in Pennsylvania

Nursing homes/LTC facilities have accounted for 60%+ of cases and a higher percentage of deaths, iirc. It was a big failure to recognize the potential consequences by our gov and DoH.

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Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #16)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:11 PM

18. Again, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that sending

covid positive patients into a vulnerable population we are supposed to be protecting it really is not a good idea.
So it's difficult to understand why it was hard to figure out the consequences. It's an airborne disease, so it's not like you can place these patients into a separate room and be fine. Nursing homes really are not well equipped to stop that kind of airborne infection.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #18)

Mon May 25, 2020, 12:24 AM

39. I'm with you. There is no defending this bad choice.

It was a stupid CDC guideline, even with the caveat that the home must have a special ward. This was like throwing a lit cigarette out a car window near chaparral in CA in July.

And governors should have thought a little bit harder about it.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #18)

Mon May 25, 2020, 11:42 AM

45. One thing the LTC facilities could do

is have the very best filtration system possible on their HVAC system. In a mostly closed environment like this, whatever virus there is can be easily spread through the ventilation ducts ala Legionnaire's Disease.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon May 25, 2020, 01:16 AM

42. Michigan can't even provide any data on how many deaths occurred in nursing homes

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Response to MichMan (Reply #42)

Mon May 25, 2020, 04:09 AM

43. Bullshit. They know.

Whitmer's angling for the VP slot or a cabinet position, so she'll keep that bit of news quiet as long as she can. Same story with Murphy, where our nursing home fatality numbers magically dropped by 1,200.

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