Mom angry that male vice principal spanked child

[davidn3600]

Source: ABC News through Yahoo

Rather than spend two days in in-school suspension for allegedly letting another student copy her classwork, Taylor Santos, a well-regarded student and athlete at Springtown High School, near Fort Worth, Texas, chose to get paddled.

As her mother, Anna Jorgensen, told ABC News affiliate WFAA-TV in Dallas, Taylor didn't want to miss any classes because "her grades are very important to her."

So Santos went to the vice principal's office to request a paddling. She called her mom, who said that as long as her daughter was OK with it, so was she. According to school policy, parents who don't want their children to subject to corporal punishment must submit a written statement each year.

What neither Jorgenson nor Santos knew was that a man - the vice principal - would be doing the swatting, while a female watched. As far as Jorgensen knew, she said, school policy mandated that males spanked males and females spanked females.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/mom-angry-male-vice-principal-spanked-her-daughter-234456335--abc-news-topstories.html

[MrSlayer]

1. Maybe she shouldn't have agreed to allow it.

I'd beat the balls off of this dude if that was my daughter.

He needs to be fired and arrested. Maybe someone should paddle the dopey mother for agreeing to this. And there should be lawsuits all over the place.

[oberliner]

49. Beat the balls off this dude?

Fired and arrested?

He was instructed to do this by the school.

No laws were violated.

[MrSlayer]

75. Yeah, assault and battery is a crime.

And if you assault my daughter you get the living piss beaten out of you.

What was unclear about this?

Do you think this was ok?

[demwing]

76. Did you read the article? Paddling students is legal in Texas

and 18 other states as well. You can't be charged with Assault and Battery for paddling a student in Texas, and no one has to think that this behavior is OK to understand that this behavior is legal.

BTW - beat up a teacher in Texas for paddling your daughter, and YOU will be guilty of assault and battery. I hope that's clear to you...

[MrSlayer]

78. What's good for one should be good for the other.

It's Texas, I'd probably be better off just shooting the asshole.

[demwing]

81. Rage

you're doing it right

[MrSlayer]

84. Haha!

Nice picture.

[Shitty Mitty]

82. Look out, we got a bad ass over here!

"Paddling" today is merely a slight tap on the bottom. This is not the 50s. And if you "beat the living piss" out of the vice principal, you'd get a really rude awakening when reality hits you with assault with intent to kill.

[obamanut2012]

110. It is still assault and battery, humilation, and in this case

A weird sexual-control thing, because yes, it is. Anyone who reads twitter or watches pron knows that.

It was legal to "correct" your wives until not very long ago, but that was also abuse and battery, no matter what the law said.

[rug]

127. This was not "merely a slight tap on the bottom".

"Because of the force with with Santos was struck, her bottom was fire-engine red and looked as if it had been "burned and blistered," said Jorgensen, who took photos as evidence."

If it's excessive force it's a crime.

[CreekDog]

131. It is one of the things that makes the USA look backwards to the outside world

And being from California, I wonder how I can live in the same nation as other states that sanction violence and barbarity -which is only legal there because it's being done to children.

What a bad joke against democracy many parts of our country have pulled.

[oberliner]

132. Pretty sure he didn't commit any crime

And, bear in mind, the parent gave express permission for someone at the school to paddle her child.

If it was me, I would not give the school such permission - then, if they did it anyway, I'd have a case.

[Scairp]

123. What century are these people living in?

What century are you living in? Why in the hell was this even an option? It should be against the law and if the parents had done this to the kid, voluntarily or not, and she complained, they could have had children's services all up their business for it. Why is it ok for any school to be hitting children when even spanking with a bare hand by a parent has fallen out of favor? It doesn't work anyway. Just absolute bullshit.

[oberliner]

133. I agree

I think it is nuts that schools can do this legally, and even moreso that parents are willing to give permission.

[obamanut2012]

109. Minors cannot consent to a beating

I agree with you: this should be against the law.

[Ed Suspicious]

2. Texas is weird. (no offense to any Texans here, I'm sure you aren't that wierd) n/t

[Scootaloo]

3. Ugh, I remember paddlings...

Wasn't that long ago, either. In hindsight, it was fucking bizarre. Especially since every teacher in the schools hung their paddles prominently... and most of them named the goddamned things. (Apparently, "board of education" is always a popular one)

I can only wonder if, when interviewing for the job, they went "So wait, I can hit them if they annoy me?" because... well, that's what it usually was. Annoy the teacher? Three licks, go clean yourself up crybaby. Actual "offenses" like fighting or actual class disruption was met with actual discipline like detention or suspension, being slapped on the ass by a two-pound wooden board was just for the teacher's stress relief, I guess.

Also? None of the schools I attended that used paddling ever paddled girls. period, under any circumstance, no matter what. Calls to the parents? Sure. Go sit in front of the office for the day? Sure. Detention / suspension? Sure. Paddling? Never.

Alabama's weirder than Texas.

The last time was ninth grade. This huge lummox of a guy decided that I'd make a good target for his frustrations about being an inadequate human being. So he kicks me, and we fight. He's gclobbering me upside the head, I'm inadverdantly teaching him about erotic asphyxiation, it's a good time had by all, when out of nowhere, the assistant principal descends on us, yanks us apart, and marches us to the office. He offers us an ultimatum; a week's suspension, or five whacks with - you guessed it - "the board of education." I imagine both the horsefucker in a bowlcut and I are both looking at this guy like he's a little loopy; Really, one of us has pavement in his scalp and the other is squeaking when he breathes, and you're threatening us with a stick across the ass.

I can't figure out why these schools still think this is a useful, much less acceptable part of their "culture."

[caraher]

34. Proverbs 13:24?

If you look at a map of the states that still allow it you get a nice overlap with the Bible belt. So I imagine it lingers out of an unspoken belief that the practice reflects a biblical prescription for discipline.

Or at least that's the reasoning, as best I can figure it.

[heaven05]

38. yep

spare the rod, spoil the child. the rod has always, in my book, been metaphorical. Raised three good kids, without physically abusing them. It can be done.

[Mrs. Ted Nancy]

40. Solomon's son didn't turn out so well.

So, shouldn't Proverbs 13:24 be advice on what NOT to do?

[obamanut2012]

111. Except the rod refers to a shepherd's crook

ie children should be guided and gently shown the way. It has NOTHING to do with a "rod" for beating.

One of the most abused verses in the Bible.

[marshall]

36. Girls at my school got slapped instead of paddling

I went to sixth grade in up state New York. Boys got paddled and girls got slapped once across the face. And it was all saved up for Friday.

[JoeyT]

46. Yeah, that sounds about like my highschool too.

Also Alabama. I never got a paddling, but from what I saw the principal, assistant principal, one coach, and whatever that other guy was got off on it. Girls did get paddled, but not hard enough to hurt. They got it a lot more frequently, though, and for whatever excuse they could find.

So far only two of the guys that I mentioned doled out paddlings are a registered sex offender, but there's plenty of time left for the other two to get on there. (Victims were a 15 year old girl for one and a 13 year old girl for the other: Both are enticing to enter for immoral purposes, whatever the hell that is.)

So yeah, I'm automatically suspicious of schools that want to paddle kids. It's creepy and weird.

[Ruby the Liberal]

50. I was paddled in 3rd grade.

For chewing gum.

Couldn't tell you what I had for lunch last Tuesday, but remember that insanity as if it happened this morning.

[OriginalGeek]

86. lol, I'm 48 and

I remember getting my ass beat in second grade for writing my name on a paper in cursive rather than block print. My mom had taught me to write in cursive and I was proud of having learned it so wrote my name in cursive. But no, Mrs Ockerman was having none of that. If she didn't teach it to me, it didn't exist and she took me in front of another class and beat my ass with one of those paddle ball paddles.

Funny, I can't remember any other elementary school teachers' names. And it's not because she was a favorite.

The good news is she was ancient then so she's probably dead now.

[Ash_F]

95. Ms. Cook, Mrs. Orwell, Ms. Sheriff, Mrs Ordner and Mr. Medrano

Grades 1-5; I remember them very well but then again I'm only 26. None of them paddled us. Our classrooms were relatively well disciplined and focused. The school was on the poor side of town too.

Oh and this was Texas as well. Did something change? What exactly do people think paddling will teach children? The idea would have merely bemused me as a kid.

PS - I do remember missing a couple recesses though. That stung.

[OriginalGeek]

96. Second grade I lived in Kentucky

but we moved to Texas when I was in third grade. I got one more beating (I don't call them "paddlings" because "paddling" seems to sound like just a tap on the bottom. What I got where beatings.) in elementary school in Texas and then one in Jr High. I was actually guilty of the crime in 5th grade but I was blamed for something someone else did in Jr. High. Mr Hart. I hate that fucker too.

Then i went all four years of high school to a private, christian school run by a fundamentalist Baptist church. They thought it was funny to beat the shit out of us. Fuck those assholes too. Although as many beatings as I got in high school, they didn't hold a candle to my step-father. Be glad when that prick is in the ground too.


but I'm over it now - I swear.

[loyalsister]

103. I got a slap on the rear

The worst thing I remember, though is when the same teacher paddled a boy in our class. He had stopped to get a drink of water rather than immediately returning from the restroom. She made him stand in front of the class while she paddled him with a ping pong paddle.
One of the worst things about it is that all of our classmates seem to remember the event and his humiliation. At a class reunion I heard a "remember when..." and he look very embarrassed for a minute.

[H2O Man]

4. That's terrible.

I'm sure this vice principal would not appreciate being smacked by a student who could kick his ass. Or by a parent, like myself.

[Trillo]

53. It's very old, an old technique.

We can only hope that the kids that go to school and become immersed in physical violence develop a distaste for it, instead of a craving for more of it.

[Drunken Irishman]

5. God. I thought that said 'vice president' & I thought, 'oh great, what's Joe done now...'

[grantcart]

30. lol

[Jennicut]

94. I'm not touching that one.

[JesterCS]

6. paddling in HS? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot mate..

[Major Nikon]

9. Springtown is a rural area in Texas

There's no shortage of "spare the rod" fucked up mentality in rural areas of Texas. The Texas GOP platform even includes it (among other nutty shit). Most of the larger school districts in the cities have banned it.

[Major Nikon]

7. I can't agree with her reason

I'm no fan of spanking. I think it's a stupid and counterproductive way to discipline children. However, I don't see the difference between a man or woman doing it and a same sex policy just tries to justify something that is unjustifiable.

[alp227]

8. Can't america do BETTER than corporal punishment????

Seriously this sounds like an obsolete practice from the 19th century or a practice only done in the Middle East or northern Asia.

[Major Nikon]

11. It's the direct consequence of letting conservatives have control of things

Republicans even voted down a bill that would have required parental consent for spankings, which means even if you tell the school you don't want your kid spanked, they can still spank your kid. Before I moved to my current home, I made sure the local school district banned spanking. I've never hit either one of my kids and I'm not going to stand for anyone else doing it either.

[hockeynut57]

106. " NO BODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"

i went to catholic schools during the 60's and 70's. might'a seen a little of this thing going on. i'm glad "God all his children" if he didn't, who knows what fundamentalists of all ilks would try to justify

[freedom fighter jh]

39. Having it done by someone of the opposite sex makes it sexual and thus makes it worse.

Who knows what the mother was thinking? Could be that even if she was not OK with corporal punishment she wanted to let her daughter make her own choice.

I agree with your assessment of spanking generally. I'm also questioning just how productive "in-house suspension" is. I don't blame the kid for wanting to keep up her learning. Why does the school think it's OK to keep her there and not let her learn?

A fitting punishment might be to simply take it out of her grade. You cheat on a test or an assignment (and letting someone copy is a form of cheating) and you get 0.

[Major Nikon]

42. It can work either way

Either the spanker or the spankee could be homosexual. Even if they weren't and both were the same sex it could still be sexual to some. I'm not even sure if it would be more likely to happen with opposite sex, but even if this were so, the very best they can say is they are trying to polish a turd with that policy.

I agree that there's countless other ways discipline can be handled better. You get the dumbest arguments from rubes in these places. If you don't mind me arguing with the chair, here they are...

1) The bible says spare the rod, spoil the child.

This is the #1 argument and it's dumb as day old dog shit. First of all, the bible doesn't say that and even if it did I'm not sure how valuable child rearing advice from bronze age sheepherders would be.

2) My parents spanked me and I turned out OK.

Yeah, sure you did. You actually think physically and mentally abusing kids is fine and dandy. What a beacon of moral turpitude you turned out to be.

3) It works!

Sure it does, sometimes anyway. Most sentient souls can be beaten into submission. The problem is what is the cost in mental health of that? And what if there were a way that was actually more effective and didn't come with those costs? Most people with more than a couple of synapses actively firing could figure out that might be worth a try.

Sorry about the rant, but I've lived my whole life surrounded by willfully ignorant rubes who refuse to be taught.

[4th law of robotics]

56. She was complaining about the force used

not the sexual aspect of it: "I think Taylor is proof that we need to keep that policy," she said. "I don't believe a man intentionally meant to do that to her, but it still happens, because men are too big and strong to be hitting 96-pound girls."


Apparently boys wouldn't really be hurt by this, only girls are too delicate to suffer such abuse.

Also would you advise a policy that excluded homosexuals from performing this on members of the same sex?

[obamanut2012]

114. This --- thare is a reason a female administrator watched the beating

Just as there is a reason a female health worker will stay in a room if a male gives a woman an internal. It puts the female in a vulnerable scenario that can quickly become sexual.

Call me cynical, but I'm betting a lot of these folks get quite excited beating these kids.

[obamanut2012]

113. There is a huge difference in a man spanking a HS female

It is a well-known pron scenario to have the male administrator spank the bad student. It is also often part of sexual play.

I think it should be illegal to hit children, period, but especially in schools.

[lexw]

10. I remember my grade school principal...

...had a paddle hanging on the wall, and me and my buddies always feared being sent to his office.
It scared the heck out of us. I don't ever recall it being used on any students, though.

My father would put us over his knee and give us whoppings; And I recall that it was well deserved.
And through it all, I loved and respected my dad. He was a great, funny family man who loved his kids, but he knew what had to be done—maybe there was some anger/frustration in those "spankings" as well, but he was a great dad and did a great job in raising us.

[Major Nikon]

13. When I was a kid my folks never made us wear seatbelts

The first car I remember didn't even have them. My folks were very well meaning also, but that doesn't mean letting us go without seatbelts was such a great idea. Often people do things just because that's the way they were raised. It doesn't mean it was always a good idea.

[lexw]

19. I hear you...

Now that I thought about it...if I had a child, I would probably do the grab-them-by-the-ear-and-point-a-finger-in-their-face routine.
In fact, I would never hit my beautiful (rescued) dog, and I would treat a human child the same.

[marble falls]

33. Lawn darts seem like a good idea back then, too. My dad "spanked" us, too - and it was WRONG.

[oberliner]

51. Slip N Slides are banned too

And a host of other toys and games.

[marble falls]

54. For good reasons. They great concepts and bad ideas, ones that came with bad .....

"unforseen" consequences.

[obamanut2012]

115. Any physical abuse is wrong

Any, spanking is physical abuse, period.

If doing it to an adult would get you arrested, then you shouldn't be allowed to do it to a child. It's really that easy.

[mykpart]

12. This is HIGH SCHOOL!

Even if you condone spanking, high school age is a little too old for it to be effective punishment. Some of those high school boys are probably bigger than the vice principal, even if he's armed with a wooden board. And while we're at it, if I went out and hit someone with a board, I would probably be arrested for assault and battery, if not assault with a deadly weapon. Bottom line, don't ever give anyone permission to hit your kid. As the gentlemen quoted in the article said, "It's legalized child abuse." Calling it spanking or paddling doesn't make it any less violent. My God! and we wonder why our government allows torture! If you're raised on it, I guess it doesn't seem so bad. Although there are many fine teachers in the school systems, there are also the occasional weirdos who enjoy beating children, and you have no way of knowing who will administer the "punishment." And your definition of a swat may be completely different from someone else's definition.

[Major Nikon]

14. In Texas you may not have a choice

Some school districts ban corporal punishment completely. Others have different policies regarding parental consent, but school boards aren't bound by this. They can spank your kids whether you want them to or not and the only recourse you have is to remove them from that school district.

[davidn3600]

16. It's actually still legal in 19 states

Although many local school districts have banned it even in states that allow it.

[KansDem]

25. Here's a general list

Where the states stand on corporal punishment:

Alabama--Legal
Alaska--Illegal
Arizona--Legal
Arkansas--Legal
California--Illegal
Colorado--Legal
Connecticut--Illegal
Delaware--Illegal
District of Columbia--Illegal
Florida--Legal
Georgia--Legal
Hawaii--Illegal
Idaho--Legal
Illinois--Illegal
Indiana--Legal
Iowa--Illegal
Kansas--Legal
Kentucky--Legal
Louisiana--Legal
Maine--Illegal
Maryland--Illegal
Massachusetts--Illegal
Michigan--Illegal
Minnesota--Illegal
Mississippi--Legal
Missouri--Legal
Montana--Illegal
Nebraska--Illegal
Nevada--Illegal
New Hampshire--Illegal
New Jersey--Illegal
New Mexico--Legal
New York--Illegal
North Carolina--Legal
North Dakota--Illegal
Ohio--Legal
Oklahoma--Legal
Oregon--Illegal
Pennsylvania--Illegal
Rhode Island--Illegal
South Carolina--Legal
South Dakota--Illegal
Tennessee--Legal
Texas--Legal
Utah--Illegal
Vermont--Illegal
Virginia--Illegal
Washington--Illegal
West Virginia--Illegal
Wisconsin--Illegal
Wyoming--Legal


Read more on FamilyEducation: http://school.familyeducation.com/classroom-discipline/resource/38377.html#ixzz27HbQM7Fi

But as you acknowledged, "... many local school districts have banned it even in states that allow it."

[Kolesar]

29. Heavily featured in "the pervert belt"

IIRC, Ohio banned this barbaric practice a few years ago.

[obamanut2012]

116. It is illegal in most NC school districts

But, it should be illegal, period, in all public and private schools.

[mykpart]

18. My sons attended school in a small town in Texas.

Corporal punishment was not administered unless written parental consent was given. This was a local school district policy that citizens had encouraged the school board to adopt. The same thing can be done in any local school board, and should be easier in small towns where everyone knows each other. Parents and concerned citizens can ask to speak at school board meetings and present their concerns. And my sons are middle-aged now, so this was many years ago.

[Major Nikon]

22. I don't know which school districts do this

But I do know the Democrats introduced a bill last year to end the practice of forced corporal punishment and it failed along party lines. So much for the government not interfering with personal beliefs. If those beliefs run contrary to religious dogma, you're basically fucked in Texas.

[Tigress DEM]

17. My folks raised me "Dr Spock" the guru, not the Vulcan. Then I'm 16 and my Dad threatens to spank me

I pulled a butcher knife and said, "I don't THINK so, Dad." As a parent, and grandparent now I can understand why he got upset, but at that point in my life, I was young and full of myself. I told him, "You are just going to have to trust me to do the right thing because you DID raise me right. You are NOT going to change all the rules now."

I was a really good kid, but I was hanging out with some that were getting into trouble. Not sure what he and I were disagreeing about, because the whole thing between him and me changed at that moment and that is what got anchored in my brain. We still had an awesome relationship and even his death doesn't fully diminish it. The fact that he let me get away with talking to him like that hurt his pride a bit, but it made me trust him more.

[Major Nikon]

21. The consequence to teaching your kids to think for themselves is they will do so

I never had any such dramatic moments with my kids as you describe, but there were instances with my son where he told me he was going to defy me and did so. I wasn't going to restrain him or otherwise prevent him from doing whatever it was (I'm not sure I could if I tried once he got older), but there were consequences for his actions which he knew were coming. I never really saw this as a bad thing. Teenagers want to be independent. That is actually a good thing. It may manifest itself in bad ways occasionally, but it's better than the alternative which is to raise a kid that gets beaten into submission and never learns how to think for themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

[Tigress DEM]

99. Yeah, ain't it the truth.

My son is fiercely independent to the point of being blind to some things that might be helpful for him, but our communication lines remain open and eventually he realizes I'm right about a few things.

[PaulaFarrell]

24. i dunno

i don't think 'really good kids' pull knives on anyone, let alone their parents. If one of my kids had ever done that, they would have packed their bags and left that day.

[Tigress DEM]

98. I went to school. Got good grades. I went to church. I helped at Sunday school....

Helped little old ladies..... really. Moved their heavy oak furniture with my Dad whenever Mom would volunteer him. Drove them to get groceries. Helped paint their houses.

My entire life I could NEVER lie to my Dad. I could tell him, "Dad, that is none of your business," and not talk after that, but I could not give him an untruthful answer if my life depended on it. We were really close.

I went to youth retreats and worked in the kitchen spending my spare time praying for the people at the retreat.

I stood up for kids who got bullied by others.

My dad seriously threatening to "spank me" was a 180 degree turn from everything that had gone before. Sure he yelled a lot if we didn't get busy with the dishes or whatever needed doing, but he'd spanked me once in my entire life.

I think I surprised myself as much as him, but it wasn't like I was really going to use it. I just didn't want him to step up and start beating on me. He had a temper, but he usually stopped himself.

However, it's probably a good thing that I had that kind of reaction to the idea of someone I loved and trusted switching gears and threatening to abuse me. Years later when my ex-husband beat me and tried to kill me, I didn't accept that behavior either. I called the cops and my dad and I left that marriage. It took a while for all the pieces to be finished, but I know a lot of women who were taught they didn't have the right to defend themselves or walk away.

[SemperEadem]

31. The vulcan was never a doctor

he was Mr. Spock or Lieutenent Commander/Commander Spock, but never Dr. Spock.

[Tigress DEM]

100. Right, but you say, "Spock" and most people see Leonard Nimoy's face.

It's a very OLD parenting method, so most people aren't aware of it.

[SemperEadem]

104. you may do that, however, I don't.

I hear "Spock" and I listen for the context in which that name is being used.

[obamanut2012]

119. me too

[Nikia]

65. I think that it is a little weird they are using it in high school too

I thought spanking was more for young children with limited reasoning skills. Certainly by middle school, a student can understand what they did, why it was wrong, and avoid the urge to do it again without physical pain.

[SheilaT]

15. I always think of it this way:

If it's not acceptable in the adult work force, why should it be acceptable in the schools?

We don't have "corporal punishment" (spankings) in the adult work force. Why is it okay in schools?

We don't (normally) accept bullying in the adult workforce. Why is it okay in the schools?

It boils down to this: Treat everyone with dignity and respect.

You don't spank or bully those you respect. Period.

Fortunately neither I nor my children attended schools where this sort of thing was acceptable. I can recall, in 7th grade, a teacher (it was her first year teaching) losing control and walking down the row smacking some of the boys, but it was shocking because it was so unusual. It was the ONLY time I ever saw such behavior on the part of a teacher. Oh, I can recall a math teacher smacking a ruler on a desk, and the noise making all of us jump, but actually striking a student? No.

In a better world, none of us would ever hit our children. I wish I could say that I never hit my kids, but I did. I am absolutely not proud of it, and I should have been able to handle things better. But having a teacher strike a child? That is absolutely unacceptable.

[lexw]

20. "But having a teacher strike a child? That is absolutely unacceptable."

agreed.

[4th law of robotics]

57. We don't have hall passes at work

Also you can fire workers if they refuse to do their job. You can't fire students at a public school.

[PavePusher]

60. Well, actually, you can. "Expulsion". n/t

[4th law of robotics]

61. They're never actually removed from school

they're just transferred somewhere else.

And it takes a bit more than it would take to fire someone.

[SheilaT]

62. Supposedly teachers and other union

workers can not be fired. Is it okay then to spank them if they misbehave at work?

Again, it comes down to treating others with dignity and respect.

Oh, and in some jobs, hall passes don't even get issued. There are stories of people working assembly line jobs who wear adult diapers to work because they are not allowed bathroom breaks.

[4th law of robotics]

63. Teachers can be fired

where did you get that one?

I thought of another one: you can't call the cops on your missing workers and have them brought in to work against their will. You can fire them sure. But in the US there aren't truancy laws to punish absent workers. So that would be yet another area where we consider working adults different than school children.

Oh, and in some jobs, hall passes don't even get issued. There are stories of people working assembly line jobs who wear adult diapers to work because they are not allowed bathroom breaks.

I'm leery of any anecdote that begins with "there are stories of . . . "

[SheilaT]

67. Gee, the Republican union haters say all the time

that the unions always protect lousy teachers and that none of them ever get fired.

My point was, that to imply it's okay to spank students, but not employees is that employees, unlike students can be fired, is not a stand I agree with.

[4th law of robotics]

68. Yes and they're wrong

I don't often form arguments around demonstrably false tenets do you?

My point was, that to imply it's okay to spank students, but not employees is that employees, unlike students can be fired, is not a stand I agree with.

My point is that we view public education different from work. Consider: between certain ages you are required to receive some education. Is it ever illegal for free citizens not to work? We had a class of people that could be forced to work against their will, but that's different now.

It's pointless to hold them to the same standards on any issue when they are held to completely different standards on other issues.

If you dislike your boss and call him some name then storm out will the police come get you and return you to work for your punishment?

[SheilaT]

73. Are defending spanking

in schools? Are you thinking there's no other way to deal with students?

[4th law of robotics]

90. I'm defending it in this case

since both the parent and the child agreed to it.

You can't complain about getting exactly what you ask for.

As a general principle? I think it makes sense to swat a kid on the backside for certain things. But highschool is getting too old.

[obamanut2012]

120. I posted that in thsi thread, too!

Exactly.

[DeSwiss]

23. K&R

''Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.'' ~Isaac Asimov

[garthranzz]

26. Which Asimov modified from...

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson

Wonderful quotes, both.

[Did I Just Type This]

27. So, the mother was ok with corporal punishment...

Funny how the mom didn't mind until she found out a male had carried out the punishment. I am against corporal punishment, authority figures shouldn't be allowed to physically assault someone "for their own good".

[davidn3600]

28. Yeah the choice of punishment doesnt seem to be the issue of concern to the mother

The mother is just upset a male did it. So I guess if a woman spanked her daughter, it'd be ok....

[obamanut2012]

121. I read it as she really wans't okay with it

But allowed her daughter to choose that punishment, which the girl did SO SHE WOULDN'T LOSE CLASS TIME AND HAVE GRADES AFFECTED.

[SemperEadem]

32. both sides are in the wrong

if the school had mandates about who administers the punishment, then they need to follow their own rules. Does this mother now have the right to take a 2x4 to him for hitting her child?

The mother never should have agreed to allow anyone to put their hands on her child, Period. The female who witnessed it should have admistered it or found another female there to do it, not stand and watch. As far as the mother goes, once she gave her permission for her child to be hit and further more, once she put that decision in the hands of a minor child, then how it fell out in experience was out of her hands. What's done is done now.'

She needs to spend more time talking to her daughter about facilitating cheating and why it is a serious matter.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. So the mom didn't mind if a woman spanked her? But not a man?

wow.

[obxhead]

37. So it's ok for boys to get a hard paddling, but girls should get a gentle one?

I really don't get the outrage here. The paddling was agreed to by the paddled and her mother. Only when it turned out that it hurt (no fucking shit) were they upset.

Paddling is stupid and pointless, but mom whining after the fact on this one is just as stupid and pointless.

[crim son]

41. I don't think it has to do with the intensity of the paddling

so much as the potential sexual connotation. But this story made me physically ill. What kind of parent would allow another adult to "paddle" his or her teenager? Vile.

[obxhead]

52. That was exactly the problem.

From the article:

What neither Jorgenson nor Santos knew was that a man - the vice principal - would be doing the swatting, while a female watched. As far as Jorgensen knew, she said, school policy mandated that males spanked males and females spanked females.

Because of the force with with Santos was struck, her bottom was fire-engine red and looked as if it had been "burned and blistered," said Jorgensen, who took photos as evidence.


The problem was it hurt, not that a male did it. Their contention is a woman wouldn't have hit as hard. Maybe, maybe not. Paddling by definition is supposed to cause pain. Bitching about it after you AGREE to it (it was an OPTION) is stupid.

[4th law of robotics]

58. The exact quote:

"I think Taylor is proof that we need to keep that policy," she said. "I don't believe a man intentionally meant to do that to her, but it still happens, because men are too big and strong to be hitting 96-pound girls."

[crim son]

69. Honestly, I still don't buy it.

But I don't know any male who would use anything like their full strength to paddle a student. I guess I've led a sheltered life.

[davidn3600]

70. I agree with you

A female would likely be able to do the same intensity.

[4th law of robotics]

89. The implication is obvious

Men would do this out of a desire to harm/get sexual satisfaction.

Whereas women would do it solemnly to maintain discipline.

It kind of goes with the mentality that all men are out to harm all children all the time. Particularly so those who wish to be around children (like say educators).

[QUALITYCONTRoll]

43. Texastan...

Is it just me or is it real? ....The weirdest stuff comes out of that country..:

[LisaL]

44. Should have stuck to two days suspension then.

The daughter voluntarily asked for spanking instead of suspension, and mother agreed.
I am not sure what they expected the outcome of spanking was going to be?

[Poll_Blind]

45. Mom agreed to it and, yes, it turns everyone's ass fire engine red, not just her daughter's.

I've been paddled at school in Louisiana. You bend over, you grab your knees and they hit you with a paddle so incredibly hard right where your ass meets your thighs that you almost jump like a jackrabbit from the forward momentum of the paddle, and straight up in the air like a surprised armadillo.

It hurtshurtshurts.

And that's the first strike. Somehow, your ass/thighs don't get any less sensitive. IIRC, I was only paddled once and it was 3-5 swats or something like that. I barely remember, it was so long ago.

But it feels like it's taking the top layer of skin off your ass/upper thighs and it probably is.

Maybe mom should have considered what she was agreeing to before agreeing to it.

PB

[Heather MC]

47. What is wrong with that mother

I would never allow someone else to discipline my children.

what's wrong with detention after school suspension, or cleaning erasers? what is wrong with these people?


look the mother said it was okay the daughter said it was okay. so they got what they deserved

[Heather MC]

48. What is wrong with that mother

I would never allow someone else to discipline my children.

what's wrong with detention after school suspension, or cleaning erasers? what is wrong with these people?


look the mother said it was okay the daughter said it was okay. so they got what they deserved

[4th law of robotics]

55. She agreed to it, the kid agreed to it there was a female in the room

this strikes me as a deliberate ploy on the part of the mom to drum up some controversy.

"I think Taylor is proof that we need to keep that policy," she said. "I don't believe a man intentionally meant to do that to her, but it still happens, because men are too big and strong to be hitting 96-pound girls."

But hitting 96 lb boys would be just fine since they don't feel pain like real people.

[obamanut2012]

122. Minors cannot consent to a beating

[4th law of robotics]

129. The mom is a minor?

Interesting family.

[1monster]

59. Being hit with a board, paddle or whatever you want to call it is not "spanking"

It is beating. Corporal punishment has no place in the schools. Period. Stop.

[marshall]

64. I wonder if race was also an issue

At a Texas school where I taught, many parents objected to the African American principal paddling their daughters or sons, but had no problem with the European American principal doing so.

[Liberal_in_LA]

66. no one should be paddling or being paddled

[TxBluebonnetDem]

71. If the mom had left marks on her child like that, the school would have called CPS

And mom would have had CPS all up in her business for the next six months. BUT the school district can leave marks and it's okay. (First at DU after lurking forever!)

[Tikki]

74. Hey HI TBD and welcome to DU...

You are absolutely correct...hope to read more of your posts in the future..

Tikki

[handmade34]

77. oh the irony

(and ...welcome!)

[Tikki]

72. No one should ever strike a student..EVER...

Even if the parents agree...



Tikki

[Shitty Mitty]

83. No one was struck

This isn't 1952. A paddling today may as well me a flick of the fingers on the behind.

[Nikia]

92. If her bottom still looked bad by the time she got home

It was more than a flick of the fingers.

[obamanut2012]

118. Doing that to an adult is assault and battery

And would result in an arrest.

I understand that you don;t thing corporal punishment is a big deal, but it is hitting. It is assault. It is not consensual and never can be consensual.

Walk up to a high school girl in the mall and give her a playful little flick on her buttocks, and see what happens to you. I know it'll almost positively end with you being put on a sexual offender list in most states.

[obamanut2012]

124. You keep saying that, but this still was assault and battery`

Walk up to a teenaged girl in public and flick her butt, and see what happens.

A minor cannot consent to a beating, which this was.

You are quite the corporal beating booster in this thread! I don't meet too many advocates of The Board of Education, regardless of political party.

[handmade34]

79. it is a

fucked up world we live in where a mother gives permission to allow her daughter to be intentionally hit by ANY adult (or anyone), where anyone, specifically adults in the educational field, consider hitting a child anytime (for any reason), where punishment for allowing another to copy off your paper is a reason for suspension and where some people on a liberal social media site actual try to rationalize hitting children for any reason...

I was hoping by this time we would all be able to engage in respect, communication, rational thought, true critical thinking, reasonableness, honest concern for each other and real education... sigh

[defacto7]

80. In 7th grade, Oklahoma..

first day of school in shop class, my teacher pulls a paddle about 20 inches long with drilled holes in it and says, "Everyone in this room is gonna get whacked with this at least once this year, no exceptions." He kept his promise. He also liked to fake a couple of hits before actually doing it, and he also rubbed our butts with it first. All in front of the rest of the class.

Things sure have changed.

[Catherine Vincent]

85. I know some may not think it's a big deal

But I wouldn't want some other man paddling my female child unless it's her father. I actually can't believe the vice principal agreed to paddle a female that wasn't his child. Surely he could have found a female teacher that would agree to do it?

[truthisfreedom]

87. Violence against children is bullying. When adults do it, it's unforgivable. This man should be

in prison.

[davidn3600]

88. Are you suggesting that everyone that spanks their kid should be in prison?

I doubt we have the prison space for that.

[obamanut2012]

125. I think everyone who spanks their kid should get one warning

A parenting skills class, and then a box set of Supernanny's books and dvds, because I don't get why hitting someone isn't assault/abuse if it's your offspring, although it's assault/abuse if it's anyone else.

[bamacrat]

91. I really don't understand the outrage of paddling.

I was paddled numerous times in school growing up, mainly for talking or disrupting class. But my first paddling I remember was I has spanked with an open hand when I was 3 in day care. Then my first in school paddling happened when I was in 1st grade. I have been paddled probably 20-25 times over my school career. Parents are given the chance to tell the school not to. Paddling isnt bad. My parents take was if I deserved it then they probably would have spanked me too. My dad is a DUer too so I didnt not grow up in a right-wing house.

Now a man paddling a high-school girl. I can see where that isnt the best idea, have a female paddle a female and males paddle males. I have been paddle by both and one of the female teachers who paddled me hit me harder than most of the men.

I have begun to ramble, so it essence, I have no problem with spanking/paddling.

[obamanut2012]

126. Very interesting

[Jennicut]

93. Corporal punishment is illegal in Connecticut. And all of New England.

Hence, I have no good stories about it. My parents were never paddled, ever. That stuff just does not go down where I'm from. Spanking is so out of style around here. I don't see too many parents doing it.

[adigal]

97. What the hell? I teach in a NY high school and we would NEVER allow this!

That is some kind of twisted behavior, paddling students. What is wrong with Texas? Why are so many in the southern states so backwards? (Not DUers, of course)

[valerief]

101. Is Texas living in the 19th century or what? Paddling? REALLY????

Tres pervy.

[2ndAmForComputers]

102. I am SO glad I don't live in a State that's governed by psychopathy.

[Blasphemer]

105. Given that grades are so important to this student...

Shouldn't common sense dictate that an "F" on the copied classwork be the appropriate punishment? I'm pretty sure it'd never happen again. I'm not sure why paddling would even be an option in such a case.

[LisaL]

107. The student volunteered to be paddled instead of 2 day suspension.

[Jamastiene]

130. That would have been a punishment that would have made a difference.

Hitting, meh, not so much. I got smacked around a lot in both Christian School and in public schools later on. The spankings never made a difference like the thought of my grades going downhill. So, I can see how that would be an appropriate punishment, but not hitting.

[obamanut2012]

108. If he did this to a coworker or to a neighborhood child, he would be arrested

This should be illegal.

And, what a sicko-sexual control thing. Why did the female not do it, if it had to be done?

[Le Taz Hot]

112. Unreal that people still think

spanking is a proper form of correction. If you have to resort to striking another human being in order to get your point across, you've already lost battle. Smart parents use more productive methods for behavior modification and internalization. Stupid parents hit.

[obamanut2012]

117. If doing it to an adult would get you arrested

then you shouldn't be allowed to do it to a child.

It's really that easy.

[Kalidurga]

128. Glad it wasn't any of my kids...

I would probably have been in jail. I wish I could say reason would have prevailed, but I don't have a good track record there when it comes to people harming my children.

[wordpix]

134. what the hell kind of school policy is this? grrrrrr

Sounds like a school for the sexually deviant adults to prey on children