Pensacola Attack Probed for Terrorism Link. Saudi Suspect Clashed With Instructor

[ancianita]

Source: New York Times

As the F.B.I. continues to conduct interviews with everyone at the Pensacola Naval Air Station who may have had contact with the gunman, identified as Second Lt. Mohammed Alshamrani, a new report emerged that the Saudi trainee filed a formal complaint earlier this year against one of his instructors, who left him “infuriated” in class by tagging him with a derogatory nickname.

The complaint, quoted in a communication circulated among people connected to the flight training, said that the instructor referred to Lieutenant Alshamrani as “Porn Stash” in front of about 10 other aviation students, embarrassing and angering him.

“I was infuriated as to why he would say that in front of the class,” the Saudi trainee wrote in his complaint, as quoted in the summary. The document was reviewed by The New York Times and authenticated by a person who spoke with Lieutenant Alshamrani shortly after the incident...

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/08/us/pensacola-gunman.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

[bluedye33139]

1. Yikes. Saying someone looks like porn is problematic

Telling someone they look pornographic or they remind you of pornography is bordering on sexual harassment. It ridicules a person while also sexualizing them. This is not appropriate conduct.

[ancianita]

3. Very unprofessional. A teacher who makes fun of a student's appearance is stupid.

This is what happens when instructors come from subcontracted companies without proper training on instructional attitude, methods.

Not saying anyone should be killed for this stupidity, either. All the adult students of the class should have filed the complaint along with one singled out by the teacher, in my view. They're not there to play games.

[bluedye33139]

7. Classroom management is a thing.

I would be interested to see what kind of training the instructor had. This is just unbelievably bad.

[getagrip_already]

26. Imagine that - a military instructor insulting recruits... who ever heard of such a thing?

Surely it's not military culture to insult recruits or trainees in order to weed out the bad candidates?

Tell me it isn't so!

[ancianita]

29. James Day worked for a subcontractor to the military, was not military himself. But I get your point

I worked on base at Fort Gordon, GA, back in the day, saw military instructors insult, usually in field training sessions but not the classroom.

We "get" military culture, but this Saudi obviously didn't get our civilian culture, nevermind our military culture. So there's that to consider.

[bluedye33139]

34. Members of the same military

This practices occur within one's own organization. The behaviors are meant to promote group cohesion.

A temporary subcontractor dealing with international trainees is not in the same situation.

[tblue37]

33. +1. nt

[Elmer1007]

4. Dont see it that way.

Looks to be a reference to the student having a stash of porrn. Maybe looking at some when supposed to be studying. Porn appears to be illegal in Saudi Arabia withe producers subject to death penalty

[Ingersollman]

5. Possibly.

But if you look at the killer's picture, you'll see why he was called "Porn Stache", as in porn mustache. Not saying that it was alright for the instructor to call him that, just saying I can see where the nickname came from.

[bluedye33139]

6. I can see where the instructor derived the content of the insult

But the reason why an instructor ridicules an individual in a classroom has to do with the ego of that instructor and an aggressive desire to demean and harm the individual that is targeted.

I taught for years, and I learned early on that when you have the entire attention of the room and you target an individual, you are playing with fire.

[okaawhatever]

15. Porn Stashe refers to a character from the TV show Orange is the New Black. One of the

guards was nicknamed Porn Stache. It's a thing.

You can google for multiple pictures/articles.

[bluedye33139]

23. I'm familiar with this. He likely was not.

In a speech situation, one cannot assume that one's own cultural references are coming through. Also, the reference to the type of facial hair that men in pornography have is problematic. Edgelords made it a norm in our culture, but for most people speaking English worldwide, the reference would be interpreted much differently.

An instructor using this kind of an insult to demean and degrade someone in a classroom is playing with fire.

Such conduct is astonishingly unprofessional.

[marble falls]

8. Porn 'stash, and that expression has been used lots of times here in the US as in ...

Steven Colbert saying something like this about Trump aide: "Joe Doaks, assistant to Jarod Kushner and man who really rocks his porn 'stash (porn mustache) ....."

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=porn%20moustache

porn moustache
aka porn 'stash

the close and neatly trimmed moustache not extending beyond lips word by adult film actors, especially Ron Jeremy
Buck told friends he was an actor, but they could tell he was only in stag films because of his telltale porn stash.
by chromedome December 07, 2003


?quality=65&strip=all

[bluedye33139]

21. I'm not sure how a photo of Ron Jeremy is unrelated to porn

I'm not persuaded that you showing me a photograph of a porn actor indicates that references to this are not references to pornography.

Can you see how telling someone they remind you of a person from pornography is not unrelated to pornography? Can you see how that would be an inflammatory topic to invoke while insulting someone?

[marble falls]

25. Me either, he has a porn 'stache, too.

[Devil Child]

20. Yikes, killing people for perceived insults is problematic.

It kills a person while also dehumanizing them(literally). This is not appropriate conduct.

The shooter appears to be a radical Islamist incel with a murderous axe to grind. Fuck him.

[bluedye33139]

22. You have no knowledge of this person's faith

You have absolutely no direct knowledge of this person's faith, do you? Can you tell me what imam he follows?

My experience with Saudis is that most of them belong to moderate or mainstream mosques.

My expectation would be that this was a response to being directly challenged in public. I would chalk this out to a cultural difference. He likely felt that his honor was at stake as a human being.

But if you have data on his mosque and sect, I would be happy to hear it.

[Devil Child]

28. He is Islamic and he quoted Bin Laden on his Twitter before the attack

It is a cultural difference. Islamic extremist intolerance for US citizens helped shape his decision making.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1YC0K3

[bluedye33139]

31. You sound like Chris Butler

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/10/03/islamophobic-world-view-of-tulsi-gabbards-guru-revealed-in-unearthed-recordings-can-she-still-run-for-president/

[Devil Child]

37. You sound like you have nothing to refute the reality of who and what the shooter is

I care little for dancing around sensitivities or an overly broad umbrella of “islamophobia” in trying to hide this under a “more sensitive and understanding” workplace violence excuse.

[bluedye33139]

38. It's ignorance, not islamophobia

[tblue37]

32. Yes, and Saudis are *very* conservative about sex, so it would have really riled him. nt

[bluedye33139]

35. Yeah. I mean I'm not saying it was okay to shoot people

I'm just saying that it was also highly, highly inappropriate to use this kind of talk in a public setting in such a situation.

[NonPC]

2. Could Be That, too

Being friends with several ex-military instructor pilots, I have hears stories about Saudi pilot trainees. Seems these guys are NOT the brightest and the best -- rather -- they are either related to or closely tied to the Royal family. Being a Saudi military pilot back home is prestigious. Thus, it takes much more training time to get these guys thru the course so that they don't kill themselves or anyone else. Forget any ability to perform in battle. That's why the US has to send planes and pilots to defend Saudi Arabia. Wouldn't surprise me that this was the situation.

[marble falls]

9. The most troubling aspect after the mayhem involved is that this training was being done ...

by private contractors.

The military is just another area where there should be NO privatization.

[ancianita]

11. It's too late to change that. The US Military has subcontracted since Kennedy, maybe earlier.

I would say that the subcontractor's contract should be cancelled, or changed to stipulate verifiable teacher training before the put any teacher in any military base classroom.

[hack89]

17. Military flight training has been privatized for a very long time and has been effective.

all the instructors are ex-military with years of experience. It is the most effective way to train pilots - the active duty pilots are needed to fill operational billets.

There are many places where privatization make sense - running the food service on base is a good one as are janitorial services. Depot level maintenance of vehicles and aircraft is another.

People forget just how small the military is now - there are not a lot of bodies for non-combat related jobs.

[Miguelito Loveless]

12. Was he referring to "stash of porn"

Or the "stache" (mustache) supposedly worn by porn stars (see many policeman).

[ancianita]

13. Oops. My mistake. I'll withdraw my previous post. Day referred to his appearance, most likely.

[Miguelito Loveless]

14. No reason to, legit story

but I couldn't see the full story so I was asking for context.

[ancianita]

16. So far, we have enough context to see that Day referred to his mustache, not some net "stash."

So I was just trying to clear up my previous misunderstanding.

Thanks for your posts.

[no_hypocrisy]

18. The shooter was Muslim. Referencing him with porn

could be construed as an insult to his religion and/or culture. He wasn't brought up in a culture where porn is accepted.

[Devil Child]

19. He was insulted? Oh well I guess it's alright he went on a murder spree then

No one to blame in my mind except the murderer.

[dchill]

27. Exactly.

[ancianita]

24. Understanding his religion/culture does not excuse his ignoring our laws/culture. He cannot

Last edited Tue Dec 10, 2019, 11:38 AM - Edit history (1)

impose his religious/cultural practices on anyone, any place in this country.

No matter whether he was Muslim, atheist or Christian; no matter whether his feelings were correctly construed or not, we in this country are not brought up in a religion/legal culture where murder for any "insult" is accepted.

Do Saudi Muslims have any rules about honoring the religions and laws of other countries? Hardly.

How do I know this? Because I've spent more time than most Americans with Muslim students; attended University of Chicago's conferences on Islamic studies, where entire panels of students and Qu'ranic scholars spoke, speakers who engaged in Q & A re Qu'ranic education, and the Qu'ran as the very basis of Islamic culture. I've read the Qu'ran three times cover to cover.

I've come to conclude, based on reading Muslim writers, based on the few conversations any Muslims have given me time for, that they are raised only to appear to assimilate, but they don't intend to actually become American, with nationalized citizenship secondary to living their religion. They are taught that All non-Muslim parts of the world are dar al-harb, where infidels deserve no expectation of peacemaking from Muslims.

I could go on, but calling someone Muslim carries many more ramifications than some implied respect for his religious identity.

[Happy Hoosier]

30. It's referring to his mustache....

It's looks like a 70's "porn star" mustache... and for anyone familiar with aviation, pilots, and some folks closely associated with military aviation usually acquire a slightly embarrassing "callsign" sometime in their early career. I acquired one when I was flight test engineer. It's not a big deal.

Dude had a pornstache....

?imwidth=1200

[DeminPennswoods]

36. All pilots have nicknames

That's probably what this instructor had in mind, but he should have been sensitive to the Saudi culture with regard to religion and sex.

[ancianita]

39. You can just as logically say that the Saudi student should have been sensitive to American military

culture.

Just sayin.'

[ck4829]

40. Maniac's feelings got hurt?