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BumRushDaShow

(127,300 posts)
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:07 PM Nov 2019

Potential culprit found in vaping-related lung injuries and deaths

Source: Washington Post



Federal health officials have identified vitamin E acetate in the lung fluids of 29 people sickened in the outbreak of dangerous vaping-related lung injuries. The discovery is a “breakthrough” that points to the oil as a likely culprit in the outbreak that has sickened more than 2,000 people and killed at least 39, a top official said Friday. “These findings provide direct evidence of vitamin E acetate at the primary site of injury within the lungs,” said Anne Schuchat, principal deputy director at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The latest findings point to growing evidence of vitamin E acetate as “a very strong culprit of concern,” she said.

Although the findings announced Friday do not rule out other possible compounds or ingredients that may be causing the lung injuries, Schuchat described the lab results as a “breakthrough” in the investigation. CDC tested for a wide range of substances that might be found, including plant oils and petroleum distillates, such as mineral oil. But, she said, “No other potential toxins were detected.”

CDC officials found vitamin E acetate, an oil derived from the vitamin, in all 29 samples of lung fluid collected from patients who had fallen ill or died from lung injuries. THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, was also found in 23 patients, including three who said they had not used THC products. Nicotine was detected in 16 of 26 patients. Vitamin E acetate, an oil derived from the vitamin, has already been identified in previous testing by federal and state laboratories in vape products that contain THC.

Virtually all the products were obtained on the illicit market. Vitamin E acetate has been used in recent months as a cutting agent or additive on the cannabis black market to stretch the amount of THC in vape cartridges, officials and industry experts have said. The findings are significant because for the first time, scientists have been able to connect results from product testing with clinical specimens from patients, she said.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/11/08/potential-culprit-found-vaping-related-lung-injuries-deaths/



Meanwhile the whole legit vaping vendor community has been tarred and feathered unmercifully.
33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Potential culprit found in vaping-related lung injuries and deaths (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Nov 2019 OP
Apparently it has nothing to do with flavorings TexasBushwhacker Nov 2019 #1
And when will San Francisco SoCalNative Nov 2019 #2
Aren't Newest Reality Nov 2019 #3
Yes. But vape juice has no flavor jberryhill Nov 2019 #9
That's a good question. Newest Reality Nov 2019 #10
The problem with "tobacco" flavor jberryhill Nov 2019 #12
True... Newest Reality Nov 2019 #13
They keep saying "but the children" when it comes to that. BumRushDaShow Nov 2019 #4
I used the Blu e-cigs a few years ago to quit smoking Submariner Nov 2019 #5
But, but, PoindexterOglethorpe Nov 2019 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Nov 2019 #8
"Meanwhile the whole legit vaping vendor community has been tarred and feathered unmercifully. " LiberalLovinLug Nov 2019 #7
"Why have to scoop actual coffee grounds into your coffee maker? So messy!" BumRushDaShow Nov 2019 #11
Sounds great LiberalLovinLug Nov 2019 #15
Yup. BumRushDaShow Nov 2019 #16
This has been the assumption for several months now. nt yaesu Nov 2019 #14
I thought we knew this already? TeamPooka Nov 2019 #17
It seems that some appointees and others BumRushDaShow Nov 2019 #18
Why are so many here celebrating this? rwsanders Nov 2019 #19
You don't need a perscription for cigarettes The Liberal Lion Nov 2019 #21
You act like this would be an isolated incident even though vaping is rampant among teens. rwsanders Nov 2019 #23
The redeeming value of vaping is twofold The Liberal Lion Nov 2019 #25
Yeah, this Withywindle Nov 2019 #31
The redeeming value is no tar. Which is why hospitals in the UK sell vaping products to patients. nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2019 #28
A 14 year old is vaping USAF Brat Nov 2019 #24
Sudafed is behind the pharmacy counter. There is no legitimate reason for flavoring or accessibilty rwsanders Nov 2019 #29
It already is age-registricted. Withywindle Nov 2019 #30
Also, "why are so many here celebrating this?" is kind of a weird question in context Withywindle Nov 2019 #32
Plenty of people with PTSD self medicate with drugs JonLP24 Nov 2019 #33
Like a week after the first reported illness The Liberal Lion Nov 2019 #20
Yup, black market THC carts... Brainfodder Nov 2019 #22
It was a theory lacking evidence Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #26
Link to DW nitpicker Nov 2019 #27

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
10. That's a good question.
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 03:17 PM
Nov 2019

Well, I have vaped in the past and there were various "tobacco" flavors, so that is all I can think of as a replacement. Either that, or bland and flavorless, huh?

It seems like the tobacco industry gets a boost here somehow? From my research, without harmful adulterants, vaping is far safer than smoking.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
12. The problem with "tobacco" flavor
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 03:19 PM
Nov 2019

Is that one of the ways vaping helps people quit smoking is that it breaks the tie between nicotine and the flavor of tobacco.

I don’t smoke now, but when I vaped, I found that cigarettes tasted awful again.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
13. True...
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 03:23 PM
Nov 2019

That's a good point.

The "tobacco" flavors I tried were not the same as the nasty taste you get from a cigarette, especially after you have gone to vaping for a while. They were more like how pipe tobacco smells, etc. I guess you could say variants on the theme.

From what I gather, the emphasis is on sweet, delicious candy/cake, fruity, etc. So, we will have to see how that pans out.

It would nice to get past the overreaction to this. Maybe some regulation of the juice would be good to avoid cheap substitutes and garbage added. The stuff I used was made in store with simple, fresh and clean ingredients.

BumRushDaShow

(127,300 posts)
4. They keep saying "but the children" when it comes to that.
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:41 PM
Nov 2019


I don't know what is going to happen once marijuana usage spreads further with the state bans being lifted.

There is this odd cognitive dissonance about MJ use vs vaping vs analog cig use that is mind boggling (and I am a vaper).

Submariner

(12,485 posts)
5. I used the Blu e-cigs a few years ago to quit smoking
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:56 PM
Nov 2019

used in combination with the Nicoderm patch, it took the edge off nicotine addiction enough that I could quit for good. The brand I used did not have all that smoke shown in the picture. Just little puffs of light smoke.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,746 posts)
6. But, but,
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 03:00 PM
Nov 2019

if people weren't vaping in the first place. If they weren't smoking cancer sticks to start with.

While I don't wish any ill on people, it's hardly breaking news that smoking is Very Bad For You, and it shouldn't come as a surprise that vaping might also be.

Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #6)

LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
7. "Meanwhile the whole legit vaping vendor community has been tarred and feathered unmercifully. "
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 03:01 PM
Nov 2019

It almost makes me suspicious of the origin. But even if this is just a unintended mistake due to black market incompetence and ignorance, it is being used to tarnish the whole industry.

Vaping raw leaves is waaaaaaaaay more healthy than smoking leaves. I blame over commercialization. Making the product into a smaller, easier to package and promote, concentrated in oil, that you can just pop in like the new coffee pod industry offers consumers. Why have to scoop actual coffee grounds into your coffee maker? So messy!

BumRushDaShow

(127,300 posts)
11. "Why have to scoop actual coffee grounds into your coffee maker? So messy!"
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 03:19 PM
Nov 2019

I grow my own coffee (plant).*

(*of course it's got another 5 or so more years before it blooms and fruits but that's okay )

LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
15. Sounds great
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:17 PM
Nov 2019

Roast them yourself too. I had a friend that showed me how to roast green beans yourself.
Buy a hot air powered popcorn utility, you can find them used at garage sales, or craig's list cheap. Roasts them perfect, you can roast as dark as you like.

BumRushDaShow

(127,300 posts)
16. Yup.
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:26 PM
Nov 2019

I had a blooming/fruiting tree about 15 years ago and tried it with a handful of berries I harvested. It wasn't easy though because after removing and cleaning the beans (2 per berry or "cherry" they call it) the seed coat had to be scraped off before roasting. Bit of a hassle but that's the fun I guess.

BumRushDaShow

(127,300 posts)
18. It seems that some appointees and others
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:37 PM
Nov 2019

were trying to parlay it into banning it all.... and then "science" maybe won out for now...

rwsanders

(2,585 posts)
19. Why are so many here celebrating this?
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:16 PM
Nov 2019

Everyone here is an adult, so if you choose it, or if it has helped you with quitting smoking, that's great.
But remember, nicotine is still a drug and the e-cigs are still a drug delivery system and should require a prescription.
Let me give you a personal view of the vaping:
We have adopted a 14 year old (was 12 when he moved in) and he has started vaping. He has a trauma history, with diagnosis of PTSD, AHDA, chronic depressive disorder, RAD, etc. He is looking for something to ease the pain. He has also grabbed random pills. So now he is addicted and when he doesn't get his fix, he stomps around the house like a caged animal. And when he finds that this drug didn't numb him, he'll be ready to move onto something else. Which might be manageable if he was the only consideration, but we have to worry about his 2 younger siblings trying to follow his example.
So your ease of accessibility is creating a nightmare in my house.

The Liberal Lion

(1,414 posts)
21. You don't need a perscription for cigarettes
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:27 PM
Nov 2019

I'm not sure I understand the basis from which you debate. Why should your personal experience be the basis for a nationwide policy?

rwsanders

(2,585 posts)
23. You act like this would be an isolated incident even though vaping is rampant among teens.
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:39 PM
Nov 2019

There is no redeeming value to vaping except as a drug delivery system.
I'm not going to debate this, but there is no reason that these products should be widely available. If the smell is the appeal, buy a scented candle.

The Liberal Lion

(1,414 posts)
25. The redeeming value of vaping is twofold
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:58 PM
Nov 2019

1. It is one of the best tools available for smoking cessation. It is one of the best because not only does it deliver nicotine (as you correctly stated), but it also mimics the actual feel and motions of smoking, thereby helping folks reduce the urge to use a cigarette. Cigarette smoking is FAR more than just nicotine delivery. There is a whole ritual associated with it that brings pleasure. Vaping helps mimic this while reducing exposure (notice I did not say eliminate) to harmful toxins found in cigarette smoke.

2. It is an effective method for reducing nicotine dependence in those who want it. And this effect comes by way directly of the varied flavors available. As a person advances in vaping they necessarily reduce the level of nicotine in the e-liquid used. Because of the flavors available other than tobacco flavor people who vape tend to move on to more and more powerful devices. The more powerful the device the less nicotine they can actually tolerate in their vape. Many either vape low to zero nic e-liquid or outright just quit.

You may say, well none of these effects would preclude one from getting a prescription to experience them. And you would be right. What would happen, however, is the cost of vape equipment and e-liquid would skyrocket due to the now limited market. Part of the allure with people who smoke even trying vaping is that at the outset vaping is more economical. However, restricting access by way of prescription would send many manufactures out of business and few would remain. Price would necessarily increase. As a result fewer and fewer people would be able to receive the benefits from this technology. This would then cause smoking rates to increase where as a direct result of vaping smoking rates are decreasing.

There are other benefits to vaping, and I suppose you may never know them. Good for you. These that I named above are the most important, however.

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
31. Yeah, this
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 02:29 AM
Nov 2019

The main reason I dropped cigarettes for vaping 5 years ago was the cost of cigarettes being something I could no longer tolerate or comfortably afford (they're around $15 a pack in Chicago due to taxes). At the time, I had no health insurance and no regular access to a doctor to prescribe anything. If I'd had to rely on prescriptions to get vaping stuff, I would still be a cigarette smoker today, and in much worse health.

USAF Brat

(40 posts)
24. A 14 year old is vaping
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:48 PM
Nov 2019

and has to be getting their supply somewhere. Do you know that it's illegal to sell these products to children under 18 in most places? Even to buy online you have to be able to provide a valid ID. Maybe you should be checking to see who it is that is supplying your minor with these products?

As for candy flavors in vape juice, there are also candy flavors in liquor. Shall we ban liquor too? OHhhh, right we already tried that with not so wonderful results. There are also -somewhat just to be snarky here - candy flavors in candy and desserts, perhaps we should do something about that too because all that sugar is bad for children. Oh - wait a minute - that's why children have parents and guardians; to tell them no when appropriate.

Almost anything in this world can be abused. The answer is not to systematically ban everything that can conceivably be bad for us but to recognize these things and communicate the dangers to our young people and regulate the behavior associated with these things.

I am truly sorry that things are "a nightmare" at your house but I don't think that legislating about this and restricting a product that has truly helped millions around the world to quit smoking cigarettes is the answer.

rwsanders

(2,585 posts)
29. Sudafed is behind the pharmacy counter. There is no legitimate reason for flavoring or accessibilty
Wed Nov 13, 2019, 07:01 PM
Nov 2019

The problem with these products is that there is no parental controls, a highly addictive substance is freely passed around schools. Heck our kid doesn't even have cash to use.
Don't see why so many people are getting worked up over a reasonable control.
Geez, this thread is like reading a right-wing forum.

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
30. It already is age-registricted.
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 02:26 AM
Nov 2019

I don't know where you live, but here in IL vaping products can't be legally sold to anyone under 21 (until recently it was 18). They've NEVER been unregulated and legally sold to minors. Of course teens will get them through back channels just as they've always done with alcohol and cigarettes and other drugs - but it's not as if laws aren't in place to at least try to prevent this.

It's an already adults-only age-restricted product. There's no more justification for banning flavored vapes than there is for banning sweet fruit-flavored alcoholic drinks and cocktails - which are also attractive to kids, I guess. If a pina colada cocktail is legal for adults, why shouldn't a pina-colada flavored vape also be?

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
32. Also, "why are so many here celebrating this?" is kind of a weird question in context
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 03:07 AM
Nov 2019

Why are so many people celebrating that the actual harmful ingredient that killed people has been found? Um....so maybe we're celebrating that that particular deadly ingredient is now known for sure and can be cracked down on so it won't kill any more people? So at least people know what to test for? These people were vaping something akin to the very poisonous preparations that were widely sold underground during Prohibition when safer alcohol was harder to come by.

We're also celebrating maybe there'll be less scaremongering about something that, while not totally harmless, is a HELL of a lot less harmful than either cigarettes or this horrifying Vitamin E additive (that no reputable vape company uses). That's...not at all a right-wing position. Right-wingers are ALL about the urban-legend-based scaremongering.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
33. Plenty of people with PTSD self medicate with drugs
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 04:57 AM
Nov 2019

It is common for adults back from war to develop drug or alcohol problems. I don't know what to do about your situation. When I was a teen I could smoke cigarettes easily so the best is don't sell to anyone under 18 or give nicotine products to anyone under 18.

The Liberal Lion

(1,414 posts)
20. Like a week after the first reported illness
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:22 PM
Nov 2019

It was reported that vitamin E acetate was the culprit AND it was because of it's use in blackmarket THC cart. Regardless America decided to catch it's hair on fire and demonize nicotine type vaping. No, people are not dying from nicotine vaping. No there is not a teen vaping epidemic AND if you want teens to not vape (good luck) all you have to do is enforce the laws on the books.

Brainfodder

(6,423 posts)
22. Yup, black market THC carts...
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:27 PM
Nov 2019

I have toked off about 8 dispensary vape carts over the past two years, I prefer flower through water pipes, but it is what it is, and no issues, I interact with other tokers, none have reported any issues with dispensary carts.

Voltaire2

(12,625 posts)
26. It was a theory lacking evidence
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 06:58 PM
Nov 2019

the news here is that the evidence supporting the theory is showing up in the autopsies of the victims.

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