General Motors Sides With Trump in Emissions Battle, Splitting the Industry

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: New York Times



General Motors, Fiat Chrysler, Toyota and other auto giants said they were intervening on the side of the Trump administration on Monday in an escalating battle with California over fuel economy standards for automobiles.Their decision pits them squarely against some of their peers, including Honda and Ford, who this year reached a deal to follow California’s more stricter rules.

The automakers that are siding with the Trump administration, led by the industry group Global Automakers, say that the federal government, not California, has the ultimate authority to set fuel economy standards for passenger cars and trucks. It represents the latest dramatic twist in one of the Trump administration’s most consequential rollbacks of regulations designed to fight climate change.

The administration has proposed a major weakening of federal auto emissions standards set during the Obama administration, prompting California to declare that it will go its own course and continue to enforce the earlier, stricter standards. Under the Clean Air Act, California has the authority to write its own clean air rules — and California has now taken the Trump administration to court to defend its authority to set its own emissions rules.

Several other states have pledged to follow California’s lead, meaning that the action has the potential to split the United States auto market into two markets, each selling vehicles with different sets of emissions standards. In July, Honda, Ford, Volkswagen and BMW sided with California in the battle, striking a deal with the state to follow more stringent standards close to the original Obama-era rules. That surprise agreement, which prompted an angry response from President Trump, would allow those automakers to meet both federal and state requirements with a single national fleet, avoiding a patchwork of regulations.

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/28/climate/general-motors-california-emissions-trump.html

[bluestarone]

1. Well

Won't be buying a GM car for sure! and we are in the process of looking!

[onecaliberal]

2. Bye bye GM

[mr_lebowski]

4. Yup ... glad I have a Honda (well, Acura) ... GM is now dead to me (nt)

[onecaliberal]

47. I am driving one right now. I will never buy another automobile from them ever.

[mr_lebowski]

57. Luck of the draw I guess ... I've had 3 cars since 1991 ... all Acura's ... 0 serious issues w/any

My '97 CL, which I took CRAP care of (often going 30K miles w/o oil change) ... made it to 330K and 2017 before I traded it in ... and that was only cause of a leaking H2O pump ... which I'd driven 200K miles on ... almost all of in the desert ...

Best car I ever had, and it's not even close. Pretty much sold me, until further notice ...

[Quackers]

55. They haven't even got everything restarted since the UAW strike.

It’s a dangerous game they’re playing.

[elleng]

59. Fiat Chrysler, Toyota and other auto giants

[democratisphere]

3. Boycott ALL General Motors products.

[Afromania]

5. Awesome, show that forward thinking that required us to bail y'all out the 1st time.

If they go down again because people don't want their cars spewing smoke then let GM fail. (scratch that) Save GM but make sure every single person responsible for the ensuing train wreck is immediately canned without a golden parachute.

[still_one]

6. So what are they saying, they don't have the smarts to meet the standards that Honda, Ford,

Volkswagen and BMW can?

[erronis]

13. Well, I'd be careful about trusting VW's standards.

Just saying.

And I think a lot of other manufacturers are guilty of seriously putting their thumbs on the scale.

[mwooldri]

7. Somewhat shortsighted for GM etc?

A future Democratic administration could simply say "these are the standards and you need to comply now." This would leave GM etc with a load of vehicles that won't comply with the standards put in place.

[Beryllinthranox]

8. As if them taking all those taxpayer dollars during the Bailouts

Wasn't bad enough. Good grief.

[docgee]

9. How stupid of a move is that?

First, they are going to miss out on the biggest state market. Second, the chances are high enough that IQ45 won't be reelected, and a democratic president will go back to Obama's standards or better. The cost for them to double reengineer the fuel consumption on their products would be a huge waste.

[still_one]

11. For them it is a business decision. For some I suspect they believe they can garner favor from

trump, and others they don't have the ability to meet the standards

I am very disappointed in GM when then killed the Volt.

It was a great transition car until the infrastructure was in place.

I now see Toyota, Ford, Honda, and others are now offering or plan to offer in plug-in hybrids, along with all electric, fuel cell, and ICE in their line up

Maybe out of necessity, but from what I see GM is making the same mistakes they made in the 70's, they were not diversified enough

[Beryllinthranox]

15. Isn't Ford only slated to have 2 production cars soon?

Just the Mustang and Focus, so I've heard. I don't see that going too well.

[still_one]

24. This year Ford is releasing both Escape and Explorer hybrid, and first quarter of

2020 they will release a plug in hybrid version of the Escape

Toyota will release a plug in hybrid version of their RAV4, and are moving most of their lineup to offer a hybrid version along side an ICE. Honda, Hyundai, KIA, etc are also moving agressively toward hybrids and or electric in their lineup

No question that the trade war caused a lot of damage to auto maker especially American automakers

The GM brand is a big seller over in China

The LA and Tokyo auto showed off a lot of these fuel efficient vehicles for production next year

GM a few years back redesigned the Impalla with rave reviews and accolades, and now put it on the same chopping block as Volt, Cruize. Now maybe they had no choice because they may not have been selling, but GM made it clear they want to push toward muscle cars and SUVs, along with the promise of all electric,. I think GM is making some stratgic mistakes, which they might be able to reverse, but by cutting recent cars from their lineup, i think customers may lose confidence in buuyingnew models from them

Time will tell

[Beryllinthranox]

42. Certainly.

I meant passenger cars only, not SUVs. But not having hybrids in all classes ane EVs might hurt them too. Thank you for the additional information! Lots there I wasn't aware of.

ETA: Chinese people love their Buicks. Major status symbol over there. I just wish they can green up.

[still_one]

44. Exactly. You are aware of the brand name they like too, Buick. Bravo!!!

[still_one]

30. If they don't sell vehicles, for whatever reason, what do you suggest?

[CentralMass]

12. Smell you later GM.

[sakabatou]

14. So damn short-sighted

[byronius]

16. They'll never live this one down.

I was considering buying a Volt or other GM electric.

Oops.

Wrote them an email about the cost of dabbling in Nazism.

[Miguelito Loveless]

22. Do buy electric

, but consider a used Volt or Bolt not bought from a GM dealership.

Great deals to be had, and the cars are very reliable.

Used Teslas are available, but pricey compared to similar mileage vehicles.

I have been driving electric since 2014 and will never go back to gasoline.

[byronius]

23. I've sworn to never buy another internal combustion engine.

Used Volt sounds good. My friend bought one and loves it.

[Miguelito Loveless]

31. We have owned one

And have friends who own them. They are EVs with training wheels and can quell anyone’s range anxiety. The 2016-2019 Volts have 53 miles of electric range, but can then tap the gas generator for 350 more miles.

When we had one, our gasoline use dropped from 800 gallons a year to 48.

[still_one]

26. They put the Volt on the chopping block. End of the line for that model. Whether they will

incorporate that technology in future vehicles is uncertain.

[Miguelito Loveless]

34. I know, but a lot were leased

and there are a fair number available on the used market. Cutting the Volt was what convinced me they were NOT serious about transitioning to EVs.

[MichMan]

38. The Volt sold poorly

It didn't make any sense to keep producing them as consumers walked right by them to buy trucks, SUV and crossovers instead.

It was essentially replaced by the Bolt. GGM has several new electric vehicles coming out in the near future

[Miguelito Loveless]

56. It sold "poorly"

because GM never tried to sell it. No ads, no sales training, nada. I went to multiple dealers in my state and a third of them denied the car existed. When I found one, it was rarely charged, and when I asked questions, the salesmen were clueless and anxious to sell me a gas car.

I finally found a used 2017 for 60% of its original price with 6200 miles on the clock. At 50K miles it has had one problem with the radio, repaired under warranty. My only expense has been tire rotation. Just sold it to a friend of mine and they have put another 5K miles and still going strong, with battery still retaining 100% capacity.

The Bolt is now getting similar treatment. Benign neglect.

Another friend who is a pediatric nurse who does home care, swears by her Bolt, but had a hell of a time getting answers when she went to buy one. Same attitude and problems as the Volt. I finally helped her find a used 2017 90 miles away, and she has been driving it for about a year now, 100-150 miles a day.

The Tesla Model 3, available in the same price range, sells 8 times as many cars per month as the Bolt.

GM is not serious about selling EVs.

[Auggie]

17. I predict California will not back down

[Miguelito Loveless]

18. Time to go electric

and buy the only real American made car.

[yaesu]

19. I would never buy a government motors car anyway but will not touch any auto product

that sides against the environment for profit.

[bucolic_frolic]

20. Following California's rules requires money and superior engineering

If you won't or can't commit to it, there is a reason.

[BigDemVoter]

21. Buh-Bye, GM. . . Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. . .

I wouldn't buy a GM vehicle for anything in the world, especially now that they are, unsurprisingly, reboarding the Pussy-Grabber Express.

[NickB79]

25. Anyone know if Nissan or Hyundai have sided with Trump or Cali?

A Nissan Leaf EV or Hyundai Kona EV are high on my list for my next car.

[MichMan]

27. Perhaps given customer preferences towards trucks and SUV and the current price of gasoline

General Motors doesn't believe that their customers will buy enough electric cars to meet those standards resulting in hundreds of millions of dollars in fines to the automaker.

Also, the UAW was pretty adamant in the recently settled strike that GM produce all internal combustion vehicles in the US.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

29. Do NOT boycott UAW made cars......

The hurts the workers, your fellow Americans. They are consumers too. Taxpayers with mortgages, college loans, keep the economy going.

The problem is with the Industry leaders, not the people who build the cars. My husband is retired UAW among his list of jobs he has had.

[dem4decades]

32. Is Ford a UAW made car? Then make it a Ford

[still_one]

36. This is the problem I think, some folks tend to fly off the handle and don't understand

the complexities involved.

I think more of the blame is with who is running the government now. Most of fthe industry leaders were moving in that direction anyway until the administration change.

Companies have to survive, or people lose jobs

I think the big problem GM appears to have right now is they are not diversified not. There may be good justifications for that, but I think this will hurt them in the long term. They need to be able to move fairly quickly between technologies more so today than ever before.

[Evolve Dammit]

35. GM products SUCK. Have since the 90's.

[kimbutgar]

37. California is a huge purchaser of new autos

They will be losing a large market. If they go ahead my current auto from GM will be my last.

[hatrack]

39. Congratulations, GM!!

You've just made it to the list of OEMs whose cars I will never buy or lease.

Thank you for slightly simplifying my life!!

[roamer65]

40. My next car will be a Subaru.

That seals it.

My Cruze is a great car, but they killed it. Now this bullshit. I’ll buy an Impreza instead.

[levp]

45. What is Subaru's position?

Most of their cars are PZEV anyway...

[roamer65]

50. Subaru is heavy into recycling and waste reclamation at its Indiana plant.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/custom-media/scjohnson-transparent-by-design/zerowastefactory/

[MichMan]

41. Not just GM, but also Toyota and FCA

[denvine]

43. I've always owned Toyotas.

Oh well, goodbye Toyota, you really screwed this up. I'm really surprised they jumped on the Trump bandwagon.

[Owl]

46. Buying a new Ford next year.

[Kid Berwyn]

48. Strategic Stupidity is a GM Hallmark.

Pass the petroleum, Putin!

[Dawson Leery]

49. No more bailouts, and that means NONE!

[truthisfreedom]

51. Weird. I'm driving two vehicles, a gas hog Ford Raptor (I need it) and

A Tesla. Neither sided with the pumpkin face.

[Takket]

52. but... but... what about "state's rights"???

[Freethinker65]

53. Stupid long term move. The world will not want, nor need, inefficient gas guzzling cars.

There might still be demand for gas powered trucks, but not cars.

Short sighted and dangerous for the companies and the planet.

[imavoter]

54. I'll stick with my Honda n/t

[rockfordfile]

58. Stupid of GM to piss off Americans

[LiberalLovinLug]

60. So Obama saves GM with a bailout, over the objections of the Republicans at the time

I think even Trump weighed in on it.

And this is how GM pays back Obama...by siding with Trump over Obama's fuel standards he set in place?

[mahatmakanejeeves]

61. Toyota is the only major automaker whose overall US fuel economy and CO2 emissions is getting worse.

Yeah, but it's not exactly a whole lot worse. It's a tiny budge.

David Fahrenthold Retweeted

If you're shocked at Toyota siding w/ the Trump administration agnst California's right to set stricter auto emissions rules, you may also be surprised that it's also the only major automaker whose overall US fuel economy and CO2 emissions is getting worse. (Data: EPA)

Link to tweet

Meanwhile, Honda -- which has sided w/ California and agreed to follow its stricter emissions rules -- led the industry overall for MY2017, w/ the lowest average new vehicle CO2 emissions & highest fuel economy. It also improved more than any other automaker in 2017. Coincidence?

Link to tweet

This data and more in the latest EPA Automotive Trends Report, which summarizes info about new vehicle greenhouse gas emissions, fuel economy, technology, and automakers' performance in meeting emissions standards

Link to tweet

Also note: GM and FCA, which are also siding with the Trump administration against California on emissions rules, are at the very bottom of the pack in terms of both fuel economy and CO2 emissions performance

Link to tweet

And Toyota may once have been known for its cutting-edge hybrid tech (the Prius), but the automaker has not been very enthusiastic in developing other emerging technologies of late

Link to tweet

Big reason for Toyota's poor performance? It's been selling more trucks and SUVs. That might be good for its bottom line, but it's bad news for climate. Research shows that SUVs are now the 2nd largest contributor to the increase in global CO2 emissions.

Link to tweet

[Vinca]

62. Toyota is a big disappointment when it comes to trucks. I looked at new ones

last week on the lot and they're twice as big as they used to be. And cost a good $10,000+, too. We'd buy a new truck in a heartbeat if we could find something the size of a mid-1980's Toyota pickup.

[BumRushDaShow]

63. I'm surprised they included VW in that tweeted data

given the mess with diesel-gate.

[raccoon]

64. Nissan sided with DT as well. Nt