Dems Torn Over How Much to Punish Rudy Giuliani for Ignoring Subpoena

[brooklynite]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Daily Beast

House Democrats are torn over how to respond after Rudy Giuliani gave them the equivalent of a massive middle finger on Tuesday, telling them he would completely ignore the subpoena that they served him for documents related to his expedition to dig up dirt in Ukraine on the Bidens in order to benefit President Trump.

To some Democratic lawmakers, the idea of Trump’s personal attorney skating by without a punishment while the courts decide whether he has to comply with their subpoena is infuriating. And it dredges up bad memories of their struggles to hold Trump administration officials to account for ignoring subpoenas over Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation. In response, they want Giuliani to feel some pain, either personally or financially.

“You don’t get to say no to a congressional subpoena,” said Rep. Jim Himes (D-CT), who serves on the House Intelligence Committee, which is spearheading the impeachment inquiry. “That’s not a thing. That is a crime. He’s gonna show up, or he’s going to get fined, or he’s going to go to jail.”

But the party’s leadership is increasingly convinced that its Ukraine-focused impeachment inquiry is getting results—and that going after Giuliani with threats of contempt of Congress would turn a success into a show that unnecessarily muddies the waters.

Read more: https://www.thedailybeast.com/house-democrats-torn-over-how-much-to-punish-rudy-giuliani-for-ignoring-subpoena?ref=home

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

1. Torn?! Lock Rudy's ass up!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[lagomorph777]

6. It's not complicated. Lock him up. Then watch other witnesses soften right up.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

7. Exactly!! Time to play hardball with these mothafuckas!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[jrthin]

12. It really isn't. Just lock his ass up and see what happens. Basically,

follow the rule of law.

[NotHardly]

25. EXACTLY

[evertonfc]

2. weak

Dems have a history of being spineless. It's why we lose fights we should win. Lock his ass up or continue being ignored.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

8. Abso-fuckin-lutely... it's not complicated!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Catch2.2]

26. Exactly!!!

Come on Dems, time to grow a spine! Stop being so scared!

[CanonRay]

3. Leadership is dead wrong. Again

You cannot let complete disregard for the law just slide.

[Nay]

4. Oh, FFS. Himes is totally correct -- Giuliani should be arrested and dragged

to jail for contempt TODAY.

And we wonder why the Pubs despise us! And why Dems are so tired and despondent. We are waiting for our leaders to actually do the right thing without handwringing and wondering how it will look! You CAN do two correct things at once, can't you??

[rurallib]

5. put his ass in jail

It is well past time that their obstruction is met with some serious punishment. Someone has to be first. If anyone is deserving of that honor I would say Rudy is.

[softydog88]

9. If I did a tenth of what Rudy did, I would be in jail!

Hmm...where have I heard that before?

[BumRushDaShow]

10. His ass is probably gonna be fried during the upcoming Grand Jury

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142381833

Also from AP -

Ex-Rep. Sessions subpoenaed in Giuliani grand jury probe
By MICHAEL BALSAMOyesterday

WASHINGTON (AP) — A federal grand jury has subpoenaed former Republican Rep. Pete Sessions for information about his interactions with Rudy Giuliani and several associates who were indicted last week. The former lawmaker from Texas is cooperating with investigators and will turn over documents in the coming weeks, said Matt Mackowiak, a spokesman for Sessions.

The subpoena is part of an ongoing investigation based in New York that includes an inquiry into the business dealings of Giuliani, according to a person familiar with the probe. The person wasn’t authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity. Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, is the personal attorney to President Donald Trump.

The Wall Street Journal, which first reported the Sessions subpoena, said it specifically sought documents related to Giuliani’s business dealings in Ukraine and his efforts to oust the U.S. ambassador in Kyiv, as well as information about interactions between Sessions, Giuliani and the four men who were indicted in the Southern District of New York. Those men include two Florida businessmen, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, who are associates of Giuliani and tied to the Ukraine impeachment investigation. They were charged last Thursday with federal campaign finance violations in connection with a $325,000 donation to a group supporting Trump’s reelection.

The federal investigation comes as House Democrats pursue an impeachment inquiry into Trump’s dealings with Ukraine, including a summertime phone call in which he pressed Ukraine’s president to investigate baseless corruption allegations against Democrat Joe Biden. Giuliani had also been asking Ukrainian officials to dig up dirt on Biden and also pushed for the ouster of the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch. Prosecutors allege that Parnas urged a congressman to promote efforts to push out Yovanovitch around the same time that Parnas and Fruman committed to raising more than $20,000 for the politician.

https://www.apnews.com/94f15d13800d41a5b84644299f05dad6

[abqtommy]

11. Gitmo awaits all the ingrates.

[RobertDevereaux]

13. Immediate consequences for this traitor!

[grumpyduck]

14. Okay, so let me get this straight...

The Dems are torn over whether to enforce their subpoenas and DO THEIR JOBS?

Pathetic.

And please don't go off on me for trashing Dems. I just want them to grow a spine.

[Catch2.2]

28. Agree 100%

Be careful though. Last time I made a similar post like yours, DU deleted it for "criticizing Democrats". I am not anti Democrat, I just want them to do their jobs!

[MyOwnPeace]

33. Times 2!

Yeah, Catch, I got the same thing!

And my post was for the same thing - JUST DO YOUR JOB!!!!!

(hope you get to read this before it's gone..... )

[Catch2.2]

36. Yup

I'm just giving constructive criticism, which should not be confused with Dem Bashing. We should start to worry when we can't voice our concerns about our own party.

[MyOwnPeace]

40. Again, I agree..........

especially on a site that is supposed to be honoring and encouraging/supporting true Democratic beliefs and actions!

[gibraltar72]

15. Lock him up.

And ten grand a day fine. Probably the money wouldn't matter to him, but the lower paid staffers that are watching might get it.

[MyOwnPeace]

34. Money's no worry.......

A steady stream of Rubles can fix anything!

[Lebam in LA]

16. Throw is a$$ in jail

Nothing to be torn about

[beachbumbob]

17. all they need to do is look at what power they have and go all in, no more meaningless letters or

threats. Time to do the real thing or trump and admin will continue to thumb their noses at the house leadership as they have done for months

[turbinetree]

18. Subpoena..............................

“You don’t get to say no to a congressional subpoena,” said Rep. Jim Himes (D-CT), who serves on the House Intelligence Committee, which is spearheading the impeachment inquiry. “That’s not a thing. That is a crime. He’s gonna show up, or he’s going to get fined, or he’s going to go to jail.”

Maybe the so called mayor and lawyer should look up what subpoena means, maybe, he skipped that part when he was in law school, or better yet maybe, just maybe, he can relive his time when he was prosecutor to find out what "he" did when people are doing what he is doing, just to refresh his treasonous mind............................ he locked them up.................but since he has left his principles at the trump door of shit............................his ass should be locked up..............................


https://litigation.findlaw.com/going-to-court/what-is-a-subpoena.html

[MyOwnPeace]

35. You do have a way with words!

"he has left his principles at the trump door of shit"

[Miguelito Loveless]

19. "But the party's leadership..."

If people can ignore your subpoenas, you are not "leaders"

Q.E.D.

[McKim]

20. Time for Jail

Time for Jail to all those who don’t respect our laws!!!!! Lock them up! Why are they so afraid? I guess they feel like battered wives, afraid.

[Hotler]

21. FUCK!...............................

It's pretty damn bad that we let a squid like Rudy flip us off without a fight.

[raccoon]

22. Republicans have no respect for the law. Nt

[MineralMan]

23. Make an example of the SOB.

He has no official government standing, since he styles himself as the "Personal Attorney of the President." Call him in to ask him what the Hell he was doing messing around with foreign policy in Ukraine as a private citizen. If he doesn't show up, toss him in jail for Contempt of Congress.

Make him an example, pour encourager les autres.

[IcyPeas]

24. "Dems are torn"

I wonder which Dems want it and which Dems don't. the repubs wouldn't hesitate.

[Vinca]

27. I suggest we send them a crate of balls. Enough already. Lock his ghoulish ass up.

[MyOwnPeace]

41. Boy, there's a visual!

[nykym]

29. Send any and all info

on Rudy's earning and financial deals to his ex wife's attorney.
He claims he is broke and can't pay alimony.

[pamdb]

30. Lock him up

Lot Giuliano’s fat asscup.

[polichick]

31. Being torn over justice is pathetic.

[safeinOhio]

32. Might start with getting him

disbarred. He counts on his law license for income.

[tavernier]

37. Susan McDougal served 18 months for ignoring subpoena

in White Water case.

[louis-t]

44. From what she said, she had already testified.

They wanted to bring her back again and try to force her to change her testimony.

[tavernier]

46. My point being that it is acceptable for them to jail

people who they feel have broken the law, but Democrats don’t have that right. They always get away with this kind of crap because they always yell and holler and push and snarl, like rabid dogs. And we back down.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

38. Talk is cheap. NT

[Marthe48]

39. Here's what we'll get if they don't enforce:

dick cheney held secret meetings with corporate energy leaders and refused to divulge who attended those meetings. As far as I know, he was never made to make any part of the meetings public.

https://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Dick_Cheney_Energy_+_Oil.htm

Now we have this, the next generation of liars, crooks, robber barons and traitors.

[MyOwnPeace]

42. SO many examples............

Why question - why wait???

Lock him up, as well as others that refuse to show up, and let the courts release them if they see fit.
But the courts might be kinda' busy right now what with all of the other "We-don't-have-to" claims going on as presented by the IQ45 liars, crooks, and thieves.

[louis-t]

43. They CANNOT let him get away with it.

We either have laws or we don't.

[crickets]

45. "he's going to get fined, or he's going to go to jail"

Why not both?

[LiberalLovinLug]

47. How can you not do two things at once?

And how exactly is it "muddying the waters"? when it is a direct cause and effect of an illegal action connected to the inquiry?

I wish the old established guard in the party, frightened they may get a little sea sick if they rock the boat, did not have so much power to suppress real action from the party, and instead side with static paralysis, on pushing back on Republican defiance of the law. The blind leading the wide opened eyes.

[amcgrath]

48. Liberty and justice for all ?

We recently saw a young black guy jailed for oversleeping and being late for jury service.

Now we have a rich white guy telling congress to go and fuck themselves.

Which one of these suggests the most contempt ?

[Omaha Steve]

49. After a review by forum hosts....LOCKING

This is analysis.