EU vows to hit back over US tariffs as businesses count cost

[groundloop]

Source: ABC News

The European Union warned Thursday it will retaliate against the U.S. decision to slap tariffs on a range of the bloc’s exports - from cheese to wine - that could cause job losses in Europe and price increases for Americans.

The Trump administration’s decision to put new import taxes on EU goods worth $7.5 billion opened a new chapter in the global trade wars that are heightening fears of a global recession.

The latest tariffs target large aircraft but also many typical European products such as olives, whiskey, wine, cheese and yogurt. They will take effect Oct. 18 and amount to a 10% tax on EU aircraft and steep 25% rate on everything else.

<snip>

It all adds up to a grim outlook for exporters and manufacturers, which are cutting down on investment.

Read more: https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/eu-vows-hit-back-us-tariffs-businesses-count-66029285?cid=clicksource_4380645_null_headlines_hed

[iluvtennis]

1. trump is such a fool. doesn't he see that these trade wars will have huge implications on the US

economy. It's aircraft and olives/whiskey/wine/cheese now, later it'll be European cars (BMW, Volvo, Audi, etc).

What an asinine policy.

[Farmer-Rick]

2. Well, maybe these American filthy rich capitalist can start investing in this country

And bring back manufacturing to this country?

This would be more easily done if we had a rational economic policy and not allow a crazy president to manipulate markets and foreign countries for his own personal proffit and little Putin's revenge.

Tariffs used strategically, not as punishment, along with a buy American policies could invigorate our economy. Leave it to the GOP to f*ck it up.

[DBoon]

4. I would amend the tax code to discourage offshoring manufacturing.

International trade itself isn't the problem, it is chasing the lowest cost labor that drives wages down

[Farmer-Rick]

5. That's a very good start.

[maxsolomon]

9. You can't manufacture French Wine in the US

Or Jarlsberg Cheese.

Or Scotch.

[Farmer-Rick]

11. So true but that does not make for good economic policy on its own.

[maxsolomon]

15. The OP and the Tariffs are about trade.

Sure, bring back jobs sent to Chiner 30 years ago, but there's not much on that list that we manufacture, unless the goal is to make California wine or olives more competitive against European imports. These are goods that aren't out-competing American brands, except in terms of quality.

Many of them are endemic and cannot be made here. Wine, for instance. You cannot manufacture Terroir.

[GulfCoast66]

10. Respectfully disagree. This is what tariffs look like.

The idea you can do it rationally is wishful thinking.

If we want other countries to buy our products we have to allow them to sell theirs here. After WWII we had all the manufacturing in the world and people had to buy from us. We will never return to that paradigm. And bitch as we may against China, and I agree there is lots to bitch about, many things are now too expensive to make there because their workers are being paid more and have higher expectations. They truly have lifted 700 million people out of poverty and it is a sight to see. Was there twice in 2016.

Higher wage countries can make and sell high end products and more importantly services.

Germany is thriving yet aren’t making Blue Jeans and Nike’s. But high end industrial equipment.

And the only reason we started believing that manufacturing has some magic that makes it higher paying is because they were unionized and fought for those wages. Other trades or crafts not so much.

There is no reason that if we had renewed support for Unions Wal-Mart workers would not make a living wage. They are profitable enough.

Those on the left blaming the loss of high paying jobs on exporting work have bought into the right wing narrative that unions make workers too expensive. Not all work can be offshores and all worker should get a decent wage. And we still make some good high end stuff here. Deere and Caterpillar being only 2 examples. Hell, even my Toyota Tundra is considered one of the top 10 most American made vehicles. Not a unionized shop, unfortunately, but the union wages others pay keep their pay high.

Look at GM. Two tiered work force made up of many part time Union members with no hope of ever being full time. Meanwhile in Germany auto workers make over $50 an hour. And unions are supported strongly by law and even have members sitting on the Board.

Before Unions we were the most dynamic industrial nation on earth. And those manufacturing employees were treated as disposable commodities.

Have a nice evening. Interesting conversation.

[Farmer-Rick]

12. First using German is an unfair comparison because they have codetermination laws

It doesn't solve all corporate fraud and abuse but it does solve a lot of it.

Up until 1913, the US had no taxes except tariffs and it worked just fine. After that, tariffs still made up a huge part of the US tax base. Done rationally and accompanied by rational economic policy, it works well and did work well for decades in the US.

No I don't think unions make workers too expensive. I think unions merely level the playing field for workers. That's why Germany's codetermination is so successful.

I really don't see how we as a country can survive on a tax base of overworked service providers income. Corporations aren't paying taxes, the filthy rich aren't paying taxes. The poor can't afford taxes. Where are the middle class, home buying, college educated service workers? I just don't see how that can be successful for a nation as large as the US.

[GulfCoast66]

13. This is what is so difficult about trying to communicate on line.

Rather than face to face as we evolved to do. I think we pretty much agree on almost all issues. Over a beer or soft drink you and I would agree on most things.

I certainly agree corporations and the rich are paying nothing and it has to change.

And there are reasons for that. Allowing stock options for executives was illegal before the early 80s. So executives had to be paid an actual salary. And if it got too high it was taxed at 70%. To me this is the most detrimental change we ever made. It forces executives to think short term rather than trying to earn a very good salary for the long term and retire rich after running a successful company not driven by Wall Street. And if an executive does that I don’t begrudge them retiring rich. But our current laws actually encourage them to drive up profits, damn the employees, and then bail before the house of cards comes crashing down.

And when I said services I mean things like Banking, IT, and other well paid companies. It’s what London has thrived on. But Brexit will kill that goose laying the golden egg!

And I disagree that even real service worker cant make good money. Their corporations sure do. Their is just no legal mechanism to force a percentage of the profits going to the worker.

Again. Good discussion. Unfortunately it is late. If you respond I will in the morning.

Have a nice evening.

[Farmer-Rick]

14. Yeah I agree with you

I guess I was hoping you could describe what a service based economy would look like and you did give me some tantalizing clues.

Your argument that service corporations make huge profits is a very good point. Forcing profit down to the worker is not something you often see in the service industry but it could be.

Yeah, how we allow corporations to pay their CEOs and how we tax them does definitely have a huge impact on our economy. I can see that in your description of the sytem.

Thanks for the info. If you have more ideas on how a service economy would work, I would really like to read them.

[GulfCoast66]

16. So we raise minimum wage to a decent amount. Or not do decent.

Say $15 an hour. Service workers in France don’t necessarily earn more than that. Although many do. But...

No healthcare costs, no having to save for college and subsidized housing if needed. Their kids get very well fed at school as party of just, well, going to school. And I could go on.

It not only what we pay people but what we force them to pay.

[The Liberal Lion]

3. These trade wars make so little sense for America and it's allies

they can only be originated in the mind of putin.

[Firestorm49]

6. Tariffs should be last resort after full fledged

negotiations fail, unlike this amateur sham of an administration that wouldn’t know how to work a deal if it was laid upon their lilly white asses. I’ve read nothing about true negotiations, only revenge - hardly a bargaining point. Very crude.

[Igel]

8. These follow a WTO ruling that following 15 years of litigation and years of negotiation before that

The tariffs are also being submitted to the WTO for approval.

In short: Europe acted badly, insists it was good all along, and is complaining about the proposed punishment.

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-10-02/wto-tariffs-airbus-us-eu-trump

The only reason I knew this is because one announcer I heard, in saying how bad Trump was and how this is unilaterally part of his trade war, said, "after a WTO ruling unfavorable to Europe." A small crack that let enough of the other 2/3 of the story be visible to elicit curiosity.

Notice that "15 years" means both Bush II and, for a longer time, Obama, supported the litigation.

[jcgoldie]

7. I just saw a story on local St Louis news about new tariffs on EU...

They blamed "Washington"... "DC"... and "the US" for the tariffs that will cause higher prices... Trump's name never fucking came up! How about that!

[BlueIdaho]

17. No one wins a trade war.

No matter how much Aderall they snort.