India is banning all e-cigarettes over fears about youth vaping

[crazytown]

Source: CNN

(CNN) India on Wednesday announced a complete ban on the sale of all e-cigarettes, saying the devices posed a health risk, especially to young people.

"Unfortunately, e-cigarettes got promoted initially as a way in which people can get out of the habit of smoking cigarettes. It was to be a weaning process from using cigarettes," Indian Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman said Wednesday after a Cabinet meeting.

"The Cabinet rightly thought it is time and we immediately took a decision so that the health of our citizens, of our young, is not thrown to a risk," she added.

Sitharaman said the deaths of seven people in the US following vaping-related sicknesses had added to local concerns about the impact of e-cigarettes on people's health. Hundreds of people are being treated for lung illness in 36 US states and researchers are investigating if those illnesses are related to the use of e-cigarettes.

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/18/health/india-e-cigarette-ban-intl/index.html

---

The ban covers the ban will cover e-cigarette production, manufacturing, import, export, transport, sale, distribution, storage and advertisement.

India is the second biggest market for cigarettes and tobacco products. From Wikipedia: There are approximately 120 million smokers in India. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), India is home to 12% of the world’s smokers. More than 10 million die each year due to tobacco in India. According to a 2002 WHO estimate, 70% of adult males in India smoke.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

1. Next step,

ban all cigarettes and other tobacco products.

[crazytown]

3. And ban weed, especially weed!

Prohibition is counter-productive

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

4. See post #2.

[Polybius]

14. I wish we would do that

I wonder if we'll ever even see a citywide ban.

[Devil Child]

39. Why? My body my choice n/t

[Jose Garcia]

2. But still allow cigarettes? Brilliant!

[mysteryowl]

5. This is a good example of how important the media is.

If it were not for the media reporting the sick, hospitalized and dead youth from e-cigs, there would have been no changes for the US or any other country.

[crazytown]

6. In a nation where 70% of adult males smoke tobacco

banning vaping makes a no lot of sense.

[Jedi Guy]

8. Bullshit.

From what I've seen, every single person who got sick or died was either vaping THC or buying black market vape juice from some rando on the street. Every single article I read about this either didn't mention that at all or it was buried way down in the umpteenth paragraph.

The media hyped this up far beyond what it should have been because panic sells. Nothing drives clicks like panicked suburban moms freaking out that little Tommy might be vaping until his lungs melt.

[maxsolomon]

25. can you send me some links on the THC vaping deaths?

I quite enjoy it, so I'd like to find out the circumstances of the deaths.

[Jedi Guy]

26. I'll dig around later, sure.

Right offhand I remember there being mention of a chemical called vitamin E acetate, which was present in the THC juices but not in "normal" juice. I think there was an FDA release about it, as well. I seem to recall my wife mentioning she'd seen it online.

If you're into vaping pot, I'd suggest getting one of the tanks that lets you straight-up vape the herb itself rather than going with the THC juices. My brother-in-law runs a vape shop and I remember he sold such tanks. I'll see if I can get a brand and model name for you.

[jayfish]

27. It's not the THC.

thc vitamin e acetate

It's black market THC products that use vitamin E acetate as a thickening agent. Actaully, after reading the following I'm beginning to think it's all coincidence being seized on by BT and the Nanny State.

Hunt for Cause of Vaping Illness Suggests Multiple Mechanisms of Damage

In a case series published on September 6 in the New England Journal of Medicine, which described 53 patients in Illinois and Wisconsin, 100 percent of patients had abnormal lung imaging, one in two showed signs of liver problems, and almost a third had a fever. More baffling, the majority of patients had gastrointestinal symptoms, including nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Callahan says no one knows why. “Someone brought up the idea that this is something like cyclic vomiting syndrome you see in people who smoke a lot of marijuana,” he says. “But this isn’t really the same.”

[maxsolomon]

40. Ah, OK. I'd heard it was black market products.

"Cyclic Vomiting Syndrome" doesn't sound good, either!

[mysteryowl]

32. 6th person died of vaping:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/10/health/vaping-outbreak-2019-explainer/index.html

[obamanut2012]

37. If you get your THC carts from a legal source, you are safe

I alsa enjoy THC vaping, and my carts are from the MMJ dispensary.

[coti]

50. Agreed, the media did a disservice here- like failing to remind people that TOBACCO kills a HALF

MILLION PEOPLE per year just in the United States, and that vaping is helping to prevent those deaths.

[jayfish]

10. This Is A Good Example of How the Media Foments Hysteria.

The advent of vaping was the first real chance we've had to make rapid, substantial, progress against cigarette smoking. It's all being tossed out the window because of media hysteria and the people who fall for it.

[Newest Reality]

28. Exactly.

Isn't it nice to see governments acting hysterically? I mean, sure, people can do that based on the way media treats things, but having mature people in office making decisions like that indicates some rather low quality governing. What else will they get overly concerned with that is not most important or vital, would be the question?

It really makes no sense at all unless their tobacco industry, (which I think includes a lot of ours) is up in arms and looking for a way to edge out competition.

[jayfish]

29. Vaping Was The Competition.

See post #16.

Small, independent, shops depend on flavors because adults who want to quit smoking like flavors other than that of a cigarette. Draconian bans roll up the small shops then BT is there with real cigarettes and "tobacco flavor" e-liquids to reap the benefits. This was foreseen years ago.

[The Liberal Lion]

15. WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Clearly you've read none of those actual reports but rather just the headlines. Had you actually read you would had seen that those who got sick DID NOT GET SICK FROM NICOTIENE CONTAINING E-LIQUID.
The "media" has fooled you.

[metalbot]

30. Here's a pretty typical example

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/11/health/vaping-lung-illness-illinois-teen-profile/index.html

Headline:

"After vaping-related illness, teen now has lungs like 'a 70-year-old's'"

Reporting:

Six paragraphs of tragic-young-ecigarette-user succumbing to a lung illness, then one paragraph that mentions in passing that he was smoking THC, then another 16 paragraphs of dangers of e-cigarettes, then another brief mention of THC, then several sections, including one describing lawsuits against e-cigarette manufacturers, then at the very end a discussion of the THC and Vitamin E connection. If you didn't read until the very last section, you'd be concerned that we were dealing with a health crisis relating to the eCigs that are being sold as a nicotine delivery system.

It's possible that it isn't _just_ THC ecigs that are the issue - there's plenty of people who still do kitchen-sink mixes of custom nicotine fluid.

[The Liberal Lion]

33. Replyin to a specific passage in your post

You said "It's possible that it isn't _just_ THC ecigs that are the issue - there's plenty of people who still do kitchen-sink mixes of custom nicotine fluid". I'll put it this way, I've been making e-liquid for myself for six years now. One of the first things I learned was never to use flavorings from the supermarket because they could contain oils, oils that would lead to lipid pneumonia. This, lipid pneumonia, as far as I understand has been the diagnosed lung illness in these cases. Most people who do DIY e-liquid learn from the same places I did. Very few just try to make e-liquid without some guidance. That being said, it's possible that people try to make e-liquid with supermarket flavorings, specifically using orange, or cinnamon or lemon flavoring which beyond doubt contain oils, and could contract a lung illness as a result. However, these cases would be limited and in no way justify a flavor ban on commercial liquid and certainly not a complete ban on vaping in general. Commercial e-liquid makers use flavorings that are designed for vaping.

But we need to take this further, why does vaping have to be healthy for people to retain their freedom to vape? This is the proper question. Are not people free to use their bodies as they please? How is it at all justified to take away flavors that adults like just because children and teens may like them too? Teens like orange juice, if a teens dies in an auto accident because they were drinking should we ban orange flavored alcohol because teens like the flavor orange or should we just enforce the law stating that those under 21 or 18 aren't allowed to purchase and/or consume alcohol and prosecute those who supplied the alcohol. And then even what if that teen drank homemade moonshine and the teen become alcohol poisoned? Would we stand for an alcohol ban because the teen drank homemade moonshine? I think not.

As far as I'm concerned this is not an issue of health, but rather an issue of freedom. If teens are vaping, then go after those who are supplying it to them, don't punish me (which they can't since a) I make my own juice, b) I anticipated a ban and have seriously stocked up on hardware, and c) they can't ban the raw materials to make e-liquid because doing so means banning food flavorings) for exercising my freedom in harm to no one besides potentially myself.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

42. Why does vaping have to be healthy for people to retain their freedom to vape?

Good point. Maybe it should be made very dangerous, so sensible people won't vape, and the rest will receive the appropriate Darwin award.

[jayfish]

44. Why?

Why are you advocating fro the death of people who vape? What's the fucking beef? Anyone else you want dead because they do something you don't like? Disgraceful!

[The Liberal Lion]

46. Your comment is in no way helpful nor would anyone find it witty even if they were anti-vaping

At best your post is troll-like at worst it's inflammatory and adds nothing of value. Despite your attempt to categorize yourself as "sensible" you produce a post that can only be though of as childish in an adult conversation. If you can't understand a point dealing with fundamental freedom you should perhaps not comment on American political threads. A requisite understanding of basic American civics is perhaps too lacking in yourself. Good day.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

60. But we know smoking is deadly, and people

are free to smoke, albeit with restrictions on where they can smoke.

Since vaping is seen as an alternative to cigarettes and the like, I see no reason why it must remain safe. Unless, you and the others criticizing my post think that unless vaping is completely safe (which quite frankly it probably never will be) then it must be made illegal. Which isn't going to happen.

People will cheerfully vape themselves to death as they currently smoke themselves to death. And those of us opposed to such things get categorized as haters.

Having watched my older sister die from the results of smoking as made me more adamantly opposed to smoking in any form.

But go ahead and smoke and vape if that's what you want. But you will get zero sympathy from me when you start suffering from the bad effects.

[The Liberal Lion]

61. While I apologize for misunderstanding your post

I require no sympathy for choices I personally make, and in this was the point of my post about why does vaping need to be healthy. While I would not categorize vaping as a "healthy" activity you should know that vaping is not smoking as smoking requires combustion and there is zero combustion in vaping, I can tell you that you being adamantly against vaping on the basis of your feelings towards smoking is misplaced. Like many who don't vape and don't smoke you misunderstand vaping. You see perhaps the plumes of vapor and a conditioned response is triggered that produces the same thoughts and feelings associated with seeing someone smoke. In your case these thoughts and feeling are associated with loss and tragedy. I understand this and I find it unfortunate that you had to lose a loved one to tobacco smoking. That being said and regardless of whatever misconceptions you have about vaping you are free to be anti-vape. That's your prerogative as a free individual. It's not my place to take that away from you. However, I would urge you to know exactly why you are against vaping, because your stated reasons are unfortunately incorrect. I will not categorize you as a hater, I will just say, based on your own words, you don't understand what you are hating.

If you are interested in learning, however, you may start here: https://reason.com/2016/05/02/royal-college-of-physicians-says-vaping

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

62. What I really don't get is why people take up smoking in the first place.

Especially since the Surgeon General's report which came out in 1964.

Almost no one enjoyed their first cigarette, and so I'm doubly astonished that anyone would persist in doing anything so unpleasant for the dubious pleasure of avoiding withdrawal symptoms.

[The Liberal Lion]

63. You are absolutely correct

Cigarette smoking has a taste that is absolutely horrible. I started smoking when I was 12 and I smoked for 30 years thereafter. Every cigarette I smoked I hated the taste. However, the reason that I continued smoking after the initial awful experience of my first hit is that quite simply I received my first head rush or high. I will tell you, however, that head rush or high feeling goes away, just like with all over used drugs that cause a psychoactive reaction. But in place of that high one's body becomes dependent of what smoking brings and the effects of withdraw are in fact extreme. I don't think the effects are as extreme as with heroin, but then again I've never done heroin. They say that tobacco smoking, especially cigarette smoking, is particularly addictive not necessarily due to the nicotine, but rather the other multitudes of chemicals produced by the combustion. I don't have the facts and figures on this, but I have observed in myself and in other vapers that as one becomes a more advanced vaper one lowers one's nicotine intake by virtue of lower and lower concentrations of nicotine in one's e-liquid. I initially stared vaping eliquid that contained 2.4 mg/ml of nicotine, now I vape primarily at .03 mg/ml and many times, because I create my own e-liquid and am constantly testing it, I vape at zero mg/ml. Further, a significant portion of people who vape as a smoking cessation tool successfully quit vaping too. I vape now as a hobbyist. I enjoy the artful pieces that are utilized in vaping, we call them mods and atomizers, I enjoy creating e-liquid flavors that are a realistic representation of the food item it set's out to imitate (for instance I recently created a lemon meringue pie e-liquid that would make you think you are actually eating that item), and I absolutely enjoy the flavor provided by vaping. Again, I will stress this is not a "healthy" activity, healthy would be not to vape, but it is most certainly not a deadly activity as smoking. Vaping, as well, I don't think is an activity that is for people who have never smoked. Again, it is not my goal to remove anti-vaping from your sights, but understand it is in no way smoking nor does it carry the same dangers as such. It is on the one hand perhaps the best tool to help people quit smoking and relive them of an addiction to nicotine and the other chemicals produced with the combustion of tobacco, and on the other hand, as freedom relates, it is a hobby that represents a drastically harm reduced way for people to enjoy either nicotine delivery or the practice of collecting unique and artful pieces.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

64. Thank you for your insight and your explanation.

[Rainbow Droid]

24. And Reefer Madness was a documentary that saved America.

It kills me that people are perfectly content to let others think for them.

It kills me that these same people take strong positions on issues that they never put any effort into understanding.

But what kills me the most is that here in 2019, deep into the fucking Information Age, it takes only the tiniest bit of effort to learn the facts and understand the issues... and the vast majority refuse to try, can't be bothered to care, or prefer their own "facts".

These shameful behaviors degrade the entire human race.

[htuttle]

7. Have you ever smoked a bidi?

It's an Indian cigarette, almost more of a cheroot. Rough looking things, like a cross between a cigar and a cigarette, that make you cough badly. Youth in India have no trouble getting them.

Aside from bathtub THC cartridges, they are probably far worse than vaping.

[onetexan]

11. LOL was gonna say, they have much stronger cig varieties over there

and 70% of their male population smoke. It's a cultural thing.

[jayfish]

12. When I smoked...

I heard about bidis on NPR, of all places. I smoked them for about month before coming to my senses. They are rotten devices.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

13. bidis are good

for rolling joints.

[Zorro]

35. Oh yeah I smoked bidis in India

A truly vile cigarette, even worse than some gawd-awful English brand I tried decades ago.

[JonLP24]

57. Yes I have

From a TCN from India when I was deployed.

[virgogal]

9. The Indians in the US are reaping the benefits,though.

In my town the convenience stores are primarily Indian owned and they just took over the only vape shop. Personally I find this entire thing akin to hysteria and I’ve never vaped.

[jayfish]

16. "Shares in ITC (ITC.NS), India's top cigarette maker,...

ended up nearly 1%, while its rival Godfrey Phillips (GDFR.NS) surged 5.2%. E-cigarettes form just a tiny part of their product range."

India bans e-cigarettes as global backlash at vaping gathers pace

This was the plan all along folks and you continue to fall for it.

[The Liberal Lion]

17. As I take a pull from my atomizer and vape this delicious chocolate candy bar e-liquid I made

I think what utter shit all these bans are.

Vaping is a good SOLUTION for the reduction of the high public healthcare cost caused by burning tobacco.

Looks like some Indian "government" official just got his or her pocket stuffed with a lot of big tobacco dough.

Shameful!

[jayfish]

18. Yup.

People like us (DIYers) will be fine. Millions of new smokers, including precious little babies, won't be so lucky.

ON EDIT: Care to share that recipe? Got any good RY4 ones?

[The Liberal Lion]

19. The chocolate bar needs still a little work. It's delicious but still not good enough

I have a banana RY4 for pods I'm working on. But I can share my Max VG Banana/Pistachio RY4 with you:

TFA acetyl Prazine .5%
FW Butterscotch ripple 2%
TFA Dulch de Leche 1%
FW Hazelnut 2%
Xian Taima Latakia .5% (can substitute FA latakia at .5%)
TFA Pistachio 5%
TFA Ripe Banana .2%
TFA RY4 Double 4%
Cap Sugar Cookie 2%

Enjoy!

[jayfish]

20. Banana/Pistachio RYA?

That sound ridiculous! Thanks!

[The Liberal Lion]

21. LOL, typo.

I corrected it to RY4

But it's delicious, the latkia makes it smoky. Blends well with the spiciness of the ripe banana

[The Liberal Lion]

22. If you end up making it I would really like your feedback

[jayfish]

23. Will do. -NT-

[jayfish]

58. I Just Put An Order In For 2l...

of nic base. All of the other flavors will take a little more time to acquire though.

[The Liberal Lion]

59. Right now I have

960 ml of 100 mg nic in PG in the freezer, and 720 ml of 36 mg in VG as well in the freezer. I'm a little worried about them restricting access to nicotine, however. I get high quality nic derived from eggplant for my e-liquid creations. I'm no longer living in the states (and I left for various reasons related to this current "government&quot so I'm not worried for myself and my shop as it relates to the US flavor bans. However, my nic supplier that I trust is in the states. If they restrict access to nic in the states then I'll have to depend on nic from China of dubious quality. I'm wondering right now if I should get more nic from the states now. I'm trying not to panic, but as usual with this "government" it's hard to predict what direction they will take, except for the most terrible direction.

[EllieBC]

41. It's harm reduction. But smoking cessation isn't a sexy cause.

Harm reduction for IV drug users is way sexier and supportable. Everyone just hates smokers. So no one cares about harm reduction for them.

I just ordered a lot of liquid and coils for my husband. He stopped smoking thanks to vaping. I intend to keep it that way.

[The Liberal Lion]

47. Great post

You as well may want to ask your husband to learn how to rebuild atomizers if he doesn't know how to already. Also learning DIY e-liquid making may be worthwhile if it really gets bad. Some really delicious e-liquid can be made with just three flavorings. There is a mixer on youtube who specializes in three flavor recipes, and let me tell you as someone who has made his recipes, they are delicious. Here is one I made and thought was divine:

&list=PL63Vg-H6qaoz5UIWfbE9IjJao24_6Q-nf&index=17

[SCVDem]

31. It took a while to have tobacco related cancer deaths.

Vaping isn't that old, so the speed which there are causalities is troubling.

As for India, my first thought was "Black Market!"

That's not good, especially if they tag fake juice as the culprit in the deaths.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

43. I had been thinking about pointing this out.

Glad you have done so.

There's a famous story of a medical school professor in the early 20th century showing his students the tumor-ridden lungs of a man who'd died of lung cancer saying, "Look closely. You may never see another example of this in your careers."

After a few decades lung cancer became a leading cause of death in men, thanks to smoking, although it took a few more decades for women to catch up, almost, in lung cancer because they started smoking later.

Many of the ill effects of smoking take many years to manifest. I'm sure the same will be true of vaping.

[jayfish]

45. I've Been Vapping...

for almost 10 years. I smoked for 15 years. At my last checkup as was given a bill of health equivalent to that of a non-smoker and the "never smoked" check-box was checked for me. ...and I'm not a special case.

[The Liberal Lion]

48. Your point might make sense

IF we saw in short and long term vapers sustained or continued degrading respiratory and circulatory conditions that were present when they were smokers. In fact the opposite is true, we see IMPROVED respiratory and circulatory conditions in those who have switched to vaping from smoking. This is a fact. Your conclusion as stated in your above post is conjecture. I don't think you are a medical doctor, nor do I believe, from the way you talk, that you have any kind of scientific education.
These guys do:
https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/news/promote-e-cigarettes-widely-substitute-smoking-says-new-rcp-report

[coti]

51. Well, you can always hope! nt

[PhoenixDem]

34. Good for India

I hope the FDA would follow suit

[jayfish]

36. So Let Me See If I Have This Straight

Last edited Thu Sep 19, 2019, 11:14 AM - Edit history (1)

In a country of 1.33 billion people where 14% (187million) of the population smokes, it's a good idea that a safer alternative to cigarettes has been outlawed? While cigarettes themselves are perfectly legal.

Get a grip people! Please!

[coti]

55. A MUCH safer alternative to cigarettes, which kill half a million Americans per year.

Who knows how many Indians.

[The Liberal Lion]

49. Why do you want to take away someone's freedom

even if it harms them, when it in no way harms you?

[Devil Child]

38. Media and government holding hands to protect tobacco/cigarette industry

Tobacco industry shows it still wields powerful influence with this sudden and coordinated crackdown on e-cigs. "For the children" is how it's packaged for easy consumption.

What a joke.

[coti]

52. Leading, of course, to the conclusion that e-cigs should be banned, NOT tobacco. Makes sense! nt

[JonLP24]

56. Now I know India has tobacco

I smoked something called a beedie from a TCN from India.

[flibbitygiblets]

65. Anyone else wonder if the traditional cigarette companies are behind the vape scare propaganda?

Sure would be nice for them if all these people who used to use e-cigs suddenly had to go back to smoking...