Majority of voters support free college, eliminating student debt

[riversedge]

Source: theHill




9/12/2019

A majority of voters said they support the idea of free state college and canceling student debt, according to a Hill-HarrisX poll released on Thursday.

The survey found that 58 percent of registered voters said they would support a proposal that would make public colleges, universities and trade schools tuition-free. The same group also said they would back a plan eliminating all existing student debt.

Forty-two percent of respondents said they would oppose such a proposal.

Democrats were more likely to support the idea of free state college and forgiving student debt.

Seventy-two percent of Democratic voters said they are in favor of making higher education tuition-free and eliminating student debt, compared to 40 percent of Republicans. Fifty-eight percent of independents, meanwhile, said the same........................

Read more: https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/461106-majority-of-voters-support-free-college-eliminating-student-debt

[wasupaloopa]

1. The majority of people support free anything.

[oldsoftie]

9. Someone needed to say it.

Glad I wasnt the first.
The poll should have also asked if people were willing to pay higher taxes to fulfill that goal

[5starlib]

38. This! Plus, the devil is in the details...

Like who will pay for this free stuff and where the money will come from.

[OKNancy]

2. Eliminating student debt would cause a lot of resentment for those who pay their's

Eliminating student debt would cause a lot of resentment for those who pay their debt. Some who skipped other things to meet their obligations.

[bucolic_frolic]

7. It's a real lunch pail issue that divides Democrats

into those who pay and perhaps don't have qualified students or no kids, and those who want free education so they can overconsume in other areas of their lives - pay the mortgage, travel, consumer goods - at the expense of the rest of society.

I'll take it one step further. In 2016, gender-of-choice bathrooms didn't play well with conservative and some religious groups. No surprise. I thought it was moving too fast and us Democrats would pay a price for it. I think we did.

Loan forgiveness is such an issue. Anyone who has repaid a loan or lost a house to foreclosure is not going to like loan forgiveness for educated students, no matter how hard they are struggling. We can delay repayment, stretch our payments, subsidize interest rates, limit repayment to a percent of income - but loan forgiveness is a bridge too far for those who have or meet their loan payments.

[JonLP24]

19. We were foreclosed on I support this issue

More than tax breaks for the wealthy, corporate welfare, defense spending, and sports stadiums.

[JudyM]

33. Right on. We need to keep showing that it's a trade-off, and let the voters choose.

It’d be great if some university added up all the corporate welfare, at least. Military spending is so superficially dissected by the media that most voters are just gut-reaction one way or the other. We’re paying, we should see the bills!

[angrychair]

36. All of those things are ridiculous copouts

Sorry, not to be short and it's not my intention to be rude but this is an incredibly sensitive topic for me.

My own issues aside, I'll use a current day situation as an example.

We live in a state that is slightly on the affordable side for its public university system, WA, and my son starts college next week.
According to the school, their tuition and room and board is $24,000/year (again, this is a public university and cheaper than others in the system)

So a 4 year education would cost roughly $96,000 (not counting classes that cost extra but may be needed to meet graduation requirements)

So a freshly graduated college student with the much hailed business degree, if they are lucky, might get an starting salary of $25 to 35,000/yr. (Being very generous here, it's more likely less)
Rents for a 1bd apartment in my area $1800/month (that is low end) and their student loan repayment will likely be $700-900/month (standard repayment plan). Student loan repayment is always based on gross, not net, salary. Yes, a person may qualify for lower payments but that doesn't stop interest accruing. Paying $200/month isnt even touching the principal.

We do that math from above and we get $30,000. Likely their entire gross salary (if they are lucky). We didn't even talk about all the other living expenses or taxes, healthcare or 401k contributions or saving for emergencies.

Let's not even mention the job market. My wife recently graduated with an AA in medical records coding and got a national coding cert but no one will even interview her without experience in coding. She has resorted to medical receptionist jobs. She has applied to 48 different jobs and had several interviews but literally hundreds of people are applying for anyone of these jobs. The last job she got an interview for, a barely minimum wage receptionist job at a dental clinic, received over 400 applications. We do not live in a high population area. No job and her student loans are coming due soon. We already are barely getting by as it is.
So check your self-righteous indignation about free loaders trying to get over on the system. The reality is it's not that black and white or ever that simple.

[MichMan]

43. That would appear to be a very poor ROI .

Borrowing 100k to earn a business degree for a job paying 30k per year is a very poor ROI when compared to an alternative. That salary equates to an hourly wage of around $15 per hour, which many people without a 4 year degree make even in low cost of living areas.

Anyone considering taking out loans needs to seriously analyze the ROI before selecting a field of study and a learning institution. Given your example, it would make little sense to undertake that amount of debt for those potential earnings.

I suggest your son study something else (STEM related) that would justify borrowing that amount of money, or take the first two years if classes at a community college and then transferring.

People who can engineer, design, program, manufacture, or repair automation and robots will likely be in very high demand earning high wages with either degrees or skilled trade certificates. If I was a youngster contemplating a career, that is the direction I would go.

[Bradical79]

12. True. Lots of petty short sighted selfish people out there.

[Grokenstein]

16. THANK you.

Education is an investment in our nation's future. If we tell immigrants they're not welcome and refuse to educate our own--or make education affordable--who the hell's going to do...well, anything?

[RandiFan1290]

23. Yeah, I hear that a lot from the republicons. nt

[BeyondGeography]

25. Yup, it's a little like let's not find a vaccine because it would be unfair to previous victims

Keep the cruelty in place so you can suffer like me.

I’ve paid off loans for myself and for my children and would be thrilled to see this burden lifted from 44 million Americans.

[obamanut2012]

41. +1

[Freethinker65]

28. I am one of those people.

Increase my taxes for tuition free public universities? OK, given some conditions like a cap on total credit hours over some period of time, declaring a major and maintaining a certain GPA, etc.

Reducing and/or eliminating interest payments on current student loans requiring only paying back the principle or amount borrowed for tuition (and perhaps university provided room and board)? Ok

Blindly eliminating all current student debt with the strike of a pen? Absolutely not!

There are currently families that sacrificed much to put away some money for their kids education so they would have less debt upon graduation. There are currently lots of college graduates, and students that are attending the schools they are, that chose to attend schools based on not wanting to rack up piles of debt.

Damn right there will be resentment. To now learn they would have been better off to keep the money they saved college and/or already spent on college, and take out loans to attend state schools because you wouldn't need to pay them back will cause more division and anger.

Also, I believe most proposals are for free tuition only. Many students took/take on extra debt for room and board, supplies, transportation, medical, personal items, travel, etc. while they are attending full/part time college. Cancelled debt for tuition only will not, and should not, reduce those loans to zero.

Those loans were a contract and it was always known they would be needed to be paid back. They were not a grant. I understand many young students did not realize what they were getting into when they signed up for those loans and were urged to max out and spend away. I sympathize with them and believe they were taken advantage of and would have no problem readjusting or eliminating the interest payments. If those were government backed loans, taxpayers will eat it. Fine. The principle should be paid back.

[trc]

32. Now this makes absolute sense, thank you.

I am currently carrying over 120K in student loan debt for 3 people. My own loan is on interest only repayment and that is almost $500 a month. So, eliminate the interest on current student loans allowing all payments to principal, no one can get angry at that, I hope anyway. All debt is repaid to the government, no one gets a free ride and we boost the economic well being of new and old students alike.

[OKNancy]

34. Watch it. You will be accused of being a Republican and/or

greedy and selfish.

FWIW, I agree with you. Offer to refinance old loans, expand Pell grants for new students, free community college...all fine with me.

[Freethinker65]

35. thx for the support. So far, so good

I think we need to speak up, even in places like DU.

[angrychair]

37. The responses from Dems

On this subject always shocks me.

It's as if they think people are out trying to screw people and get something for nothing.

People get loans because they cannot afford an education and student loans are literally the only option.
Yes, its a "contract" but one they are forced to accept as the only alternative to improve their lives and create new opportunities.

A four year public school education in my state is $96,000 or more. While a college degree is literally required to even be considered for many jobs, entry-level jobs, even with a degree, start in the $25-35,000 range. If you can actually get one before your student loans become due.

Fyi, even with no interest, a $96,000 loan repayment, over 10 year, even with no interest, is $800/month

The main point is that a person getting an education and improving themselves makes for financial and emotional stability and a more resilient economy as well as a more informed electorate (college educated people are more reliable Democratic voters and more likely to actually vote)
A college education benefits everyone.

[Freethinker65]

39. A college education benefits those that use it wisely

My son spent the last three years coasting and having fun at college. He lost part of his scholarship. He could have taken loans to make up the difference, but he will not be returning at this time.

If the only reason you want to go to college and take out, as you say, a 96k loan is to get a job making 35k perhaps there are better options?

Being a liberal, I think getting an education and learning is more important than the money you make at a job, but perhaps not going into 96k debt should also be factored into any decision you make.

I know recent National Merit Scholars that chose the colleges they attend by how much debt they would/wouldn't have upon graduation. I know people who worked while attending college that surpassed those with only academic skills in the workplace. I know anecdotally a lot of people that have done quite well, or better, financially without a college education. I also know many people, like myself, that had a wonderful education but chose not to pursue a high paying career.

College is not the only place to learn, but tuition assistance at state schools should be made available for those that want to attend.

So once again, I would support taxpayer/state/federal funded tuition for students who want to go to college and maintain threshold grades for a degree.

I do not support forgiving loans already made, though I can see the argument for reducing or forgiving interest payments to those that were taken advantage of that did not understand what they were getting into when they took out the loans.

[obamanut2012]

40. None from me, and I was screwed over mighty on my loans

Which meant it took almost 20 years to pay off because of the lies, and it really depressed my quality of living for many years.

Which is why I 100% believe in forgiving student loans, and free public university education. We are a rich country, and a modest tax on rich people and corporations would pay for many, many things, including this.

[Fresh_Start]

3. will the majority of voters support paying higher taxes so that

other people can have free college?
If so, they should immediately contact their own state legislatures and say RAISE MY TAXES..

The federal government only "owns" a handful of schools. Think West Point, Annapolis...all other schools are either state or private....

[Hoyt]

5. Good point.

[bucolic_frolic]

6. Yup. SOMEBODY has to pay for it!

Faculty doesn't work for nothing. Heating buildings and maintaining them isn't free. In their own niche, palatial Taj Mahal campuses mirror $900 million football stadiums. It's all taxpayer free! No one has to pay for anything!!

[oldsoftie]

10. And the administrators to student ratio grows every year. MORE payroll.

[bucolic_frolic]

4. Anything that's free, you get more of it

More overeducated people. This will grow the inequality/cultural/demographic/regional schism really well.

Quality in education is important too, and this will separate private higher ed from public. States cut support to state institutions in recessions.

I just think students should pay something that is not insignfiicant.

And forgiving debt? Why? So they can consume, buy sports cars and McMansions, as I've heard so often, get on with their lives? Why should the rest of us pay for that? You undertook the debt, you knew what you were getting into, you have the higher income streams from that education. I've done without, saved, paid for my education, why is yours free all of a sudden?

I think free college and total loan forgiveness is a really flawed idea.

[Bradical79]

13. "Overeducated"?

Not sure I understand what you mean.

Edit: Do you mean credential inflation? The devaluation of your degree?

[bucolic_frolic]

24. Overeducated means career underachievement

Yes there are degrees that aren't worth much too.

[eggplant]

29. College isn't just about job training.

[Bradical79]

30. I'm not getting it

I think I need an example of what you're talking about. Career underachievement seems like more of a problem with the current situation in that the costs make it less likely your degree will lead to financial success.

[obamanut2012]

42. lulz

wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

[Polybius]

11. And I support free health insurance for pets

It'll never happen though.

[Opel_Justwax]

14. The States can do this.

California has free tuition for some community college students.

[certainot]

15. years ago americans also wanted single payer. but democrats ignore talk radio so cons in

40 states with 80 senators, dominated by team limbag, get to convince media that they are what the people want

[Sapient Donkey]

17. This is probably a stupid idea I haven't fully thought through

but I would like to see free community college and other comparatively priced education. But instead of it being some sort of rigid system that forces everyone down the same path of going to only traditional college, it also gives the flexibility for those who would find more benefit down a different path. Determine what the average community college cost should be per year and have that be set across the country. Then give every person an education account in which they control how that money is spent on educational opportunities. So maybe they just need to take some courses from some vendor to get certified on something. They should be able to submit that and get it approved, and then use that to get exactly what they need for their specific situation.Of course they can choose to go to a traditional community college and have it covered. If someone wants to put that money toward their more expensive school to continue their education, then they can do that too and be less likely to have to take out loans. If they don't spend it, then okay, but it doesn't rollover.

I would even like to see things like online learning sites like safaribooks or coursera qualify for these funds.

/ramblings

[JonLP24]

18. Other countries are able to pull it off

I support this over tax cuts, corporate welfare, defense spending, etc.

I'm surprised this thread is full of conservative talking points.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/569884/

https://m.

[Grokenstein]

20. I know, right?

When the comments on a site as pro-Warren and pro-Bernie as DU abruptly start shouting down funded education or all, ignoring European successes with same, I smell a wet trump.

[Humanist_Activist]

44. Most people on DU are conservative Boomers, if the Republicans weren't so against...

some specific issues they may support and are so intent on dismantling Medicare and Social Security, they would be Republicans.

[Yavin4]

21. There's no path to the middle class without some sort of advanced training/education post-HS

That's a simple fact. Without college or some other high level vocational training, you won't ever be able to work your way into the middle class no matter where you live. Long gone are the days where you could work a union job some where and buy a house and raise a family on one salary.

So, we've got to puzzle out how to increase the skill levels of our citizens so that they can compete for jobs. Otherwise, we're going to have to supplement them with direct payments to shrink the income gap which will cost a lot more than funding advanced training.

[bucolic_frolic]

22. Very true

The good jobs are in the skills learned. Technical skills - programming, math, science, medical fields. But also auto mechanics, plumbing, computerized manufacture. Find a niche and fill it. But specific skills can bite later in life if the skillset changes, there is recession, or an industry becomes obsolete. All eggs, one basket in other words. Many an electrical engineer needs retraining by their 50s.

[Yavin4]

27. Life long learning should be taken into consideration.

I'm in my mid-50s, and I'm back in school acquiring another degree.

At the end of the day, how do we wanto combat poverty and increase economic mobility? Direct payments/subsidies to people or invest in their training/education?

Gig jobs aint going to do it.

[Newest Reality]

26. Some Factors

That have been touched on a little in the thread:

The first is that the "free" part is really an investment that can pay many dividends in the future. That is, if automation and AI don't significantly change.

It is obvious to me that the high costs and huge loans create a significant amount of debt. This can prevent students from reaping the rewards of their education in the form of home purchases, investments, etc, that would then stimulate various sectors of the economy. Right now, too much is going into the debt system itself, (as interest) and the education institutions.

Another factor is that there are many more benefits to having a citizenry that is well educated and there are many studies that show the impact of higher education overall. In this case, it is a rising tide that does lift all boats in the harbor.

In a technology and data-driven world, how does it make sense not to have all forms of education take priority? It is rather dystopian and would certainly play into the ongoing inequity that is reaching an absurd imbalance and forging a rather Neo-Feudal system where the wealthy will own everything, (and there are indications that is possible in a few decades) and we get a serfdom.

I think a lot more is riding on this and that the "free" part is not the main issue, it is the necessity that drives it for the collective good.

[roamer65]

31. Cut me a check for all the money I paid back and I'm good with it.

...and I do want back interest on it.

Keep in mind that any debt forgiveness will be counted as taxable income. That rule definitely should not change.