Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

PSPS

(13,512 posts)
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 01:44 AM Sep 2019

Gun Used in Texas Shooting Was Illegally Manufactured and Sold: REPORT

Source: National Review

Gun Used in Texas Shooting Was Illegally Manufactured and Sold: REPORT

By Jack Crowe
September 5, 2019 5:19 PM

Authorities believe the gun used in the drive-by shooting in Midland and Odessa, Texas this past weekend was illegally manufactured and sold by a Lubbock, Texas man, the Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday. The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is currently investigating a man who they believe illegally manufactured and sold the AR-15-style rifle that Seth Ator used to kill seven people and injure 22 more on Saturday, before he was shot and killed by police.

Ator, 36, had previously attempted to purchase a gun from a licensed seller in January 2014, but failed the requisite background check because he’d been declared mentally unfit by a local court. A nationwide criminal-background check identified the court order and prevented the purchase, according to local authorities.

If Ator did in fact purchase the weapon through a private transaction, its seller was under no obligation to conduct a background check, but could be held criminally liable if evidence emerges that he knew his prospective customer came to him due to a previous background-check failure.


Read more: https://www.nationalreview.com/news/gun-used-in-texas-shooting-illegally-manufactured-sold-report/

90 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Gun Used in Texas Shooting Was Illegally Manufactured and Sold: REPORT (Original Post) PSPS Sep 2019 OP
I don't give a flying fuck. PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 2019 #1
#1 a million times! riversedge Sep 2019 #2
Yup. And once we did and... B Stieg Sep 2019 #3
But the NRA insists the Founding Fathers were talking about Semi-Automatic weapons... ProudMNDemocrat Sep 2019 #4
NRA types think they can defend themselves against government tyranny IronLionZion Sep 2019 #19
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2019 #5
In more ways than one... B Stieg Sep 2019 #9
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2019 #11
Gun manufacturers continued to make 100's of thousands of semi-auto rifles like the AR-15. B Stieg Sep 2019 #25
A ban on all semiauto weapons means most handguns as well NickB79 Sep 2019 #36
Yup. And they need to be banned, too! B Stieg Sep 2019 #37
Good luck with that NickB79 Sep 2019 #40
Really? That's a GOP talking point... B Stieg Sep 2019 #42
Your link supports my statement, not yours NickB79 Sep 2019 #44
70% oppose banning handguns according to your link hack89 Sep 2019 #45
I wasn't talking about hand guns. B Stieg Sep 2019 #47
Take a real look at those Gallup polls hack89 Sep 2019 #48
Who cares? PEOPLE are INCREASINGLY dying from all kinds of guns, some more than others... B Stieg Sep 2019 #50
The vast majority of handguns are semiautomatic hack89 Sep 2019 #49
Didn't use to be paleotn Sep 2019 #52
Certainly since the early 80s. hack89 Sep 2019 #58
and this post melm00se Sep 2019 #67
Yes paleotn Sep 2019 #51
No. Ban removable magazines. On all types of guns. sir pball Sep 2019 #41
That's what the Canadians do, and they can own many semiauto rifles NickB79 Sep 2019 #46
I won't poison my YouTube looking for gun videos, but here's a video to illustrate. sir pball Sep 2019 #55
Canada does *not* ban removeable magazines, per the RCMP: friendly_iconoclast Sep 2019 #80
I said they ban magazines over 5 rounds NickB79 Sep 2019 #87
NY magazine capacity is limited to 10 rounds, not 7. sl8 Sep 2019 #85
0.0 % chance of that one Baconator Sep 2019 #62
Your "optimism" is part of the problem! B Stieg Sep 2019 #66
The 1994 Federal AWB did not actually ban military style rifles hack89 Sep 2019 #26
The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban didn't take any guns off the streets LittleBunny Sep 2019 #75
very true mauserk98 Sep 2019 #89
So, by your "logic," should we take rape and bank robbery laws off the books? Paladin Sep 2019 #90
Their selfish intention to indulge themselves always supersedes everything else. Judi Lynn Sep 2019 #8
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2019 #12
Gun owners are primitive, shabby, stupid, and dishonest? Marengo Sep 2019 #15
Some yeah, some need a reality check BADLY, the evidence is kinda clear? Brainfodder Sep 2019 #34
Many, yes paleotn Sep 2019 #53
Can you provide percentages and the data used to form those conclusions? Marengo Sep 2019 #70
My own observations paleotn Sep 2019 #76
Oh, so a tiny sample population subject to your own bias. Got it. As for your semantic parlor... Marengo Sep 2019 #82
I shoot with doctors, lawyers and other professionals hack89 Sep 2019 #59
Its sounds nice, but its unrealistic. There are 300 million of them. Theyre NOT going anywhere. oldsoftie Sep 2019 #16
I'd be OK with guns, if people were ALL OK too. Brainfodder Sep 2019 #32
If you take away the legal guns customerserviceguy Sep 2019 #77
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2019 #6
The last five words of your post are operative here jmowreader Sep 2019 #7
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2019 #10
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2019 #13
Finally. A meaning to "illegally manufactured". ManiacJoe Sep 2019 #65
When I was younger, they called them 'zip guns' . Doug.Goodall Sep 2019 #14
Not what is discussed here. House of Roberts Sep 2019 #22
It's called a "ghost gun" gay texan Sep 2019 #23
Ghost guns are the perfect way around background checks. patphil Sep 2019 #24
Well I learned something here today underpants Sep 2019 #27
There's a youtube video MosheFeingold Sep 2019 #74
It's like how they prevent kids from watching some adult content. Brainfodder Sep 2019 #33
yes, you getting the picture gay texan Sep 2019 #38
It's not strictly specific to ARs, any gun can be "80%" sir pball Sep 2019 #56
there is a guy in our neighborhood who makes bullets for his friends. demigoddess Sep 2019 #28
Insurance is based on risk sarisataka Sep 2019 #29
how many people were killed this year? that is a risk demigoddess Sep 2019 #61
High cost, eh? So, only the well-heeled can afford to own firearms? Marengo Sep 2019 #31
Not only that. Calista241 Sep 2019 #78
Agreed, and what of the vast number of racist cops DU believes to exist? How can they be trusted... Marengo Sep 2019 #83
Royalism is alive and well in gun control circles: "Only the good people should have guns" friendly_iconoclast Sep 2019 #79
It strikes me as the epitome of white privilege. Marengo Sep 2019 #84
What's the issue with hand loading for friends? Marengo Sep 2019 #88
Ghost gun from an 80% lower? mitch96 Sep 2019 #30
yes gay texan Sep 2019 #39
Making guns is not that difficult ripcord Sep 2019 #17
Well, I guess we ought to give up and wait for the next available psycho to gun us down. Paladin Sep 2019 #18
Just an FYI ripcord Sep 2019 #20
Glad you do paleotn Sep 2019 #54
Making a reliable repeater isn't that easy sir pball Sep 2019 #57
So a shooting was prevented for 5 years because of the background check IronLionZion Sep 2019 #21
He committed a felony by lying on the background check he failed NickB79 Sep 2019 #35
Let's straighten out the misleading information here discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2019 #43
The best way to slow down this gun mania is a strong license...unless you can confiscate all the gun Sancho Sep 2019 #60
There is not a huge black market for illegally manufactured/imported firearms madville Sep 2019 #63
As long as you're happy. (nt) Paladin Sep 2019 #64
Of course their are.... Maxheader Sep 2019 #68
Who exactly will be rounding them up? hack89 Sep 2019 #69
You've never read wishing .. Maxheader Sep 2019 #71
On this particular subject, that is a fine line hack89 Sep 2019 #72
I'm deadly serious about seizing all assult rifes.. Maxheader Sep 2019 #81
Republicans support an authoritarian society hack89 Sep 2019 #86
Prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law maxsolomon Sep 2019 #73

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,746 posts)
1. I don't give a flying fuck.
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 02:18 AM
Sep 2019

Legal or illegal. That's not important. It's the gun, pure and simple. If people didn't have guns they couldn't shoot people. I know, a totally bizarre concept.

Take away the guns, reduce the shootings. It shouldn't be very hard to understand.

B Stieg

(2,410 posts)
3. Yup. And once we did and...
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 02:47 AM
Sep 2019

it worked (the assault weapons ban 1994-2004)!!!

This ain't rocket science. Fewer guns = fewer gun deaths.

ProudMNDemocrat

(16,481 posts)
4. But the NRA insists the Founding Fathers were talking about Semi-Automatic weapons...
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 02:58 AM
Sep 2019

When they wrote the 2nd Amendment. Bunch of whackos the Wayne LaPierres of this world are.

IronLionZion

(45,256 posts)
19. NRA types think they can defend themselves against government tyranny
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 09:28 AM
Sep 2019

yet also claim blue lives matter

Many police chiefs across America support better gun control laws.

Response to B Stieg (Reply #3)

B Stieg

(2,410 posts)
9. In more ways than one...
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 03:47 AM
Sep 2019

Last edited Mon Sep 9, 2019, 09:39 AM - Edit history (1)

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/did-the-assault-weapons-b_b_9740352

But while the stats are the stats and definitions are just starting points, the nature of mass shootings was very different as a result of the ban.

"One thing is clear: Assault weapons like those once restricted by the ban were used in the most memorable events that have defined the current era of random massacre, including at Sandy Hook in 2012, Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., in 2018 — and this month in Texas and Ohio.

They are the emblem of the nation's soul sickness over these tragedies."

If you arguing this right-wing talking point, why are you here? (looks Like he left UCAL professor)

New "stats" btw

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/americans-of-both-parties-overwhelmingly-support-red-flag-laws-expanded-gun-background-checks-washington-post-abc-news-poll-finds/2019/09/08/97208916-ca75-11e9-a4f3-c081a126de70_story.html

Response to B Stieg (Reply #9)

B Stieg

(2,410 posts)
25. Gun manufacturers continued to make 100's of thousands of semi-auto rifles like the AR-15.
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 11:47 AM
Sep 2019

Exactly. That's why the prohibition needed/needs to be stronger.
The key is to ban semi-automatic weapons, regardless of facile sights, add-ons or hard points.
And, Mr. Stats, don't forget Darryl Huff!

However, why are these weapons needed, in your opinion?
Or do you like mass casualty events?

NickB79

(19,111 posts)
36. A ban on all semiauto weapons means most handguns as well
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 05:08 PM
Sep 2019

And Heller's ruling in the USSC specifically stated citizens have a right to own handguns in common use for home and personal defense. And tens of millions of Democratic and Independent voters own such guns.

Beyond that roadblock, are you aware of pump-action rifles and shotguns that emulate AR's and AK's? Virtually the same rate of fire, same cartridges used, same detachable magazines. All exempt from assault weapon bans.

B Stieg

(2,410 posts)
37. Yup. And they need to be banned, too!
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 05:50 PM
Sep 2019

ANYTHING that creates mass casualties with one or multiple trigger pull needs to be BANNED.
So, no, you can still have your pistols for home defense (although Heller needs review), just no semi's there either.
YOU don't need those weapons for home defense or for hunting...
And yes, as a librul I've shot most, including Ak's and M-16's.

NickB79

(19,111 posts)
40. Good luck with that
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 11:10 PM
Sep 2019

We're currently fighting to ban features found on a few percent of the scariest guns (not even the actual guns themselves, since you can still buy featureless, legal AR's and AK's in places like California and New York); you're advocating banning around 75% of all guns owned in America if you're planning on lumping semiauto handguns and pump-action guns in there.

The Democratic Party will never win any state in the Midwest again when you grab everyone's hunting shotguns.

NickB79

(19,111 posts)
44. Your link supports my statement, not yours
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 10:28 AM
Sep 2019

71% are against a ban on handguns, and the only mention I found of banned semiauto weapons was in regard to assault rifles. And nothing about your idea to ban pump-action guns like the vast majority of hunting shotguns.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
48. Take a real look at those Gallup polls
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 11:25 AM
Sep 2019

Look at past 20 years or so. Support for gun control oscillates within a constant band around 50% plus or minus 10 %. We have been here before and nothing changed. There has been no sea change in public attitudes so nothing will really change.

B Stieg

(2,410 posts)
50. Who cares? PEOPLE are INCREASINGLY dying from all kinds of guns, some more than others...
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 02:27 PM
Sep 2019

You really want to make this much of an argument based on stats?
You do realize that every civilian gun death is unnecessary?
Or do you want to ignore events like Sandy Hook and the almost uncountable numbers of mass casualty events are good!

And things will change.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
49. The vast majority of handguns are semiautomatic
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 11:52 AM
Sep 2019

So you are for banning the vast majority of handguns. Kind of splitting hairs there, aren’t you?

paleotn

(17,778 posts)
52. Didn't use to be
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 03:40 PM
Sep 2019

Not that long ago they were revolvers. Mass ownership of semi-auto handguns is a relatively new phenomenon. But I guess innocent people simply have to die so others can own them. Nice.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
58. Certainly since the early 80s.
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 05:24 PM
Sep 2019

Once the police shifted from revolvers so did the public.

You realize in that time we cut our gun murder and man slaughter rates in half?

paleotn

(17,778 posts)
51. Yes
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 03:35 PM
Sep 2019

And at one time black people were considered property, as were wives. Legal precedent changes as the world changes. The lives of innocent people demands that it does.

sir pball

(4,726 posts)
41. No. Ban removable magazines. On all types of guns.
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 12:21 AM
Sep 2019

A lever action, or pump action, is just as fast firing as a semiautomatic. There's a couple of models of pump action ARs already, and one or two detachable magazine leverguns, so ban semiautos and that market will absolutely take off.

Ban all removable magazines over 5 rounds, be they for semiauto, lever, pump, bolt, single-shot, whatever - if the ammo goes in a separate, easily swappable container, make it illegal.

NickB79

(19,111 posts)
46. That's what the Canadians do, and they can own many semiauto rifles
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 10:30 AM
Sep 2019

I've advocated in other threads that a ban on high-capacity magazines is much more doable than a gun ban.

Canada does 5, New York 7, and California 10 rounds.

sir pball

(4,726 posts)
55. I won't poison my YouTube looking for gun videos, but here's a video to illustrate.
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 04:47 PM
Sep 2019

An actress, not even a gunsane, shoots both a pump-action and lever-action very fast. Add easily replaceable magazines in and it's just about as devastating as a semiauto.

Also, the music is awesome. As is the show.

&t=171s
 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
80. Canada does *not* ban removeable magazines, per the RCMP:
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 11:08 PM
Sep 2019
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/bulletins/bus-ent/20110323-72-eng.htm


Magazines designed to contain rimfire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a rifle do not have a regulated capacity. However, magazines designed to contain rimfire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic handgun are limited to 10 cartridges. Magazines designed or manufactured for use in both rifles and semiautomatic handguns are subject to the handgun limit of 10 cartridges...

...Magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic rifle are limited to five cartridges. However, magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a rifle other than a semiautomatic or automatic rifle, do not have a regulated capacity. Magazines that are designed or manufactured for use in both semiautomatic rifles and other (non-semiautomatic) rifles are subject to the semiautomatic rifle limit of five cartridges.


NickB79

(19,111 posts)
87. I said they ban magazines over 5 rounds
Tue Sep 10, 2019, 08:36 AM
Sep 2019

I see that rimfire magazines are 10, but your link says 5 rounds is in fact the limit for semiauto centerfire if the magazine is removable.

sl8

(13,584 posts)
85. NY magazine capacity is limited to 10 rounds, not 7.
Tue Sep 10, 2019, 08:11 AM
Sep 2019
https://safeact.ny.gov/gun-owners

Initially, the SAFE Act prohibited loading more than 7 rounds in the magazine, with exceptions, but, last I heard, the courts shot down that part of the Act.

Appeals court upholds SAFE Act but rules against seven-bullet limit
https://buffalonews.com/2015/10/19/appeals-court-upholds-safe-act-but-rules-against-seven-bullet-limit/

Not sure if there have been more recent developments.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
26. The 1994 Federal AWB did not actually ban military style rifles
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 11:51 AM
Sep 2019

once manufacturers made the cosmetic changes the law demanded, they went on selling rifles. The AR 15 was banned by name so Colt made the necessary changes and sold it as the Colt Sportsman.

The rifle Adam Lanza used at Sandy Hook was legal to sell and own under the 94 AWB. It was also legal under CT's even stricter AWB - it was not legally an assault weapon.

 

LittleBunny

(22 posts)
75. The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban didn't take any guns off the streets
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 06:04 PM
Sep 2019

What it did do, however, was turn the AR-15 into the most popular firearm in the United States.

mauserk98

(8 posts)
89. very true
Wed Sep 11, 2019, 09:51 AM
Sep 2019

I didn't own an ar-15 platform rifle. I did buy one in response to the ban. The fastest way to get people to want/buy something is to tell them they can't have it.

Paladin

(28,202 posts)
90. So, by your "logic," should we take rape and bank robbery laws off the books?
Wed Sep 11, 2019, 10:55 AM
Sep 2019

After all, some sick bastards want to engage in those pursuits, and those laws are telling them they can't do it.

Helpful hint: Better choose another Username. Bolt action rifles like the K98 aren't very popular amongst the small number of pro-gun types here at DU. Go for something snappy, like "100RoundMagazine." You're welcome.

Judi Lynn

(160,217 posts)
8. Their selfish intention to indulge themselves always supersedes everything else.
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 03:34 AM
Sep 2019

Primitive, shabby, stupid people. They aren't people decent people would want to know, or see anywhere.

Their guns, apparently give them the feeling of importance they would never get any other way. Totally ignorant, and fear-driven.
What would they do without their guns?

They'd have to act like honest citizens.

Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #8)

Brainfodder

(6,423 posts)
34. Some yeah, some need a reality check BADLY, the evidence is kinda clear?
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 03:55 PM
Sep 2019


The whole thing is childish .












paleotn

(17,778 posts)
76. My own observations
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 07:04 PM
Sep 2019

over a significant number of years. Many and Others doesn't mean all, by the way. Touchy much?

 

Marengo

(3,477 posts)
82. Oh, so a tiny sample population subject to your own bias. Got it. As for your semantic parlor...
Tue Sep 10, 2019, 07:12 AM
Sep 2019

Trick, the implication is clear so don’t bother to pretend otherwise. For whatever it’s worth, this particular version was a favorite of the infamous Iverglas. Transparent as she eventually admitted.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
59. I shoot with doctors, lawyers and other professionals
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 05:42 PM
Sep 2019

Both my wife and myself are educated professionals. You really don’t personally know any real gun owners do you?

oldsoftie

(12,410 posts)
16. Its sounds nice, but its unrealistic. There are 300 million of them. Theyre NOT going anywhere.
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 08:20 AM
Sep 2019

If we could start over and have NO guns, like so many other countries, things would be different. We cant. Cats outta the bag.
Easier to try to get rid of high capacity magazines.

Brainfodder

(6,423 posts)
32. I'd be OK with guns, if people were ALL OK too.
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 03:18 PM
Sep 2019

Chances of that? 0

Why?

Too much $ in it, and greedy dipshits do dipshitty things and act entitled to be dipshits?

Starts at the top....




customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
77. If you take away the legal guns
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 09:19 PM
Sep 2019

only the illegal guns will remain. Yes, they'll be damned expensive, but not unobtainable.

Response to PSPS (Original post)

jmowreader

(50,451 posts)
7. The last five words of your post are operative here
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 03:12 AM
Sep 2019

The person in question transferred one of his homemade guns to another person, so according to the BATF he's a gun manufacturer and needs all the paperwork.

Response to jmowreader (Reply #7)

Response to jmowreader (Reply #7)

gay texan

(2,403 posts)
23. It's called a "ghost gun"
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 10:01 AM
Sep 2019

And its specific to an AR-15 and its variants.

The main piece of the AR-15 is the lower unit and it usually contains a serial number. It can be made of aluminum or high grade plastic.

In order to get around the BATF laws, you simply purchase an unfinished lower unit for $100 to $200 bucks. The hole for the trigger and the clip are solid and need to be machined. It's not "technically" a gun. Therefore, anyone can buy it as long as you have the cash.

You would think this is a difficult thing to do, but it isnt. You simply buy a jig that fits over the unfinished lower unit and with a drill and a dremel it's pretty much finished.

You then go online and purchase everything else you need ( barrel mechanics and furniture) and presto, you have a fully functional AR-15 that the BATF has no idea exists. Hence, the "ghost" moniker.

If this scares you, it should. This happens daily. It's a bunch of grey area bullshit that's being exploited.

patphil

(6,029 posts)
24. Ghost guns are the perfect way around background checks.
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 11:09 AM
Sep 2019

It shows how inadequate a background check is.
Anyone can buy the separate components and make the gun.

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
74. There's a youtube video
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 05:00 PM
Sep 2019

(Or there was) of a guy who made an AK-47 out of a garden shovel.

All it takes is a modicum of mechanical ability to make a weapon. It's not hard. They are made all day long in Afghanistan and Africa with equipment and resources that are a fraction of what is available in the USA.

There's really no way to stop it.

Brainfodder

(6,423 posts)
33. It's like how they prevent kids from watching some adult content.
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 03:22 PM
Sep 2019

You swear to us that you are 18+ if you click here to ENTER!

Whose that stop?

Yeah, thought so.

gay texan

(2,403 posts)
38. yes, you getting the picture
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 10:07 PM
Sep 2019

But it's crazier than that.

The outfits that manufacture this bullshit KNOW damn well and good what they are doing. But they dont care because they feel they are "sticking it to the libs"

It's really that fucking stupid, no joke....

They honestly don't give a fuck because they think that the BATF is this all knowing, all seeing entity that is just poised and ready to come and take away all of the guns from those proper, white, god fearing patriots. Their logic is that an untraceable gun, means that you have a wildly successful chance of defending yourself from the great government intrusion that's quite sure to happen once Hillary, Pelosi, and Soros get their act together.

Seriously, i'm not making this up. That's their thought process...

sir pball

(4,726 posts)
56. It's not strictly specific to ARs, any gun can be "80%"
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 04:55 PM
Sep 2019

Any gun you manufacture at home is exempt; the BATF rule is that as long as you do at least 20% of the work yourself, you're fine.

It's just that nobody really wants to build a bolt-action rifle themselves (and I suspect an 80% bolt-action receiver would be hard to finish, but I digress) - the only folk who want unserialized guns are the same kind of folk that want multiple ARs.

demigoddess

(6,640 posts)
28. there is a guy in our neighborhood who makes bullets for his friends.
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 01:43 PM
Sep 2019

we need stronger enforcement to get rid of gun danger to our children. We need high cost gun insurance and yearly inspection by the police to make sure they are correctly stored and sold only to checked customers. If a guy has fewer guns than last year, where is the receipt and background check on the buyer?

sarisataka

(18,216 posts)
29. Insurance is based on risk
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 02:02 PM
Sep 2019

And priced accordingly.

I practice what I preach and have firearms insurance; I wish all my insurance cost as little as that does.

Calista241

(5,584 posts)
78. Not only that.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 10:46 PM
Sep 2019

Apparently the police are just not busy enough, so making them go see and ‘inspect’ 300 millions guns and their owners every year will be a good use of their time.

 

Marengo

(3,477 posts)
83. Agreed, and what of the vast number of racist cops DU believes to exist? How can they be trusted...
Tue Sep 10, 2019, 07:17 AM
Sep 2019

To apply these news laws fairly and without prejudice to people of color?

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
79. Royalism is alive and well in gun control circles: "Only the good people should have guns"
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 11:03 PM
Sep 2019

I'll repeat something I posted at DU back in 2010:

1. It would be regressive.

The better-off could afford what they want, while those people would be limited in what they could afford for self-defense.

And since there is no demonstrable link on the number of firearms someone owns and their likelihood in doing something criminal
(if you are law-abiding while owning one gun, chances are you'd still be law abiding if you owned several dozen-
as many collectors do), this is purely a class-based attempt to disarm the working poor no matter the fine words it
comes wrapped in.

and

2. It would be racist, as unfortunately in this country, skin color is a rough guide to income levels.

ripcord

(5,084 posts)
17. Making guns is not that difficult
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 09:17 AM
Sep 2019

Any competent machinist has the skills and many have the equipment, I could do it without much problem but prefer to crank out parts for high power rocketry.

Paladin

(28,202 posts)
18. Well, I guess we ought to give up and wait for the next available psycho to gun us down.
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 09:26 AM
Sep 2019

Thanks for the inspiring remarks.

paleotn

(17,778 posts)
54. Glad you do
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 03:48 PM
Sep 2019

Because in my mind, manufacture of the other should land you in jail for a very very long time. A far greater danger to society than pot.

sir pball

(4,726 posts)
57. Making a reliable repeater isn't that easy
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 04:56 PM
Sep 2019

It is trivial to build a single-shot firearm, it's basically a pipe.

Building a reliable, functional semiauto is a lot harder.

IronLionZion

(45,256 posts)
21. So a shooting was prevented for 5 years because of the background check
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 09:33 AM
Sep 2019

This is why we should make it harder to get, not easier. Responsible mentally fit people will still be able to pass the background checks, so we need to close the private sale loophole. If people want to make guns, they can sell it through a licensed dealer who runs a nation-wide background check first. Same with gun shows, do the background checks ahead of time before the show, like when people register or buy tickets. It can be similar to TSA precheck for flights.

NickB79

(19,111 posts)
35. He committed a felony by lying on the background check he failed
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 05:04 PM
Sep 2019

If the ATF were properly funded, he would have been arrested for that alone.

Instead, we currently do nothing and let them walk free because the ATF has been gutted over the years.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,470 posts)
43. Let's straighten out the misleading information here
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 10:24 AM
Sep 2019

What makes manufacturing a gun from an 80% lower illegal?
* For the most part, nothing. You can buy an 80% lower through the mail or online and have it delivered. You can finish it (making a firearm according to the law) and keep it for personal use. In supposedly nearly "gun free" Australia, gangs are manufacturing full auto assault rifle and machine pistols. These designs are easily within the skill of typical machinists.
* What is illegal is to then sell the gun without having a serial number engraved and recorded.
* What can make the manufacture illegal is where your intent or demonstrated history is to manufacturing and transfering the firearms to others.

Sancho

(9,065 posts)
60. The best way to slow down this gun mania is a strong license...unless you can confiscate all the gun
Sat Sep 7, 2019, 06:03 PM
Sep 2019

People Control, Not Gun Control

This is my generic response to gun threads where people are shot and killed by the dumb or criminal possession of guns. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70’s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that weren’t secured are out of control in our society. As such, here’s what I now think ought to be the requirements to possess a gun. I’m not debating the legal language, I just think it’s the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because it’s clear that they should never have had a gun.

1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a regularly renewed license. If you want to call it a permit, certificate, or something else that's fine.
2.) To get a license, you should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc. This check is not to subject you to a mental health diagnosis, just check on your superficial and apparent gun-worthyness.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learner’s license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home. (If you want to argue 18 or 25 or some other age, fine. 21 makes sense to me.)
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) when outside of home. Guns should be secure when transporting to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and special carry circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.). If you are carrying your gun while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you lose your gun and license.
9.) If you buy, sell, give away, or inherit a gun, your license information should be recorded.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, are served a restraining order, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process.

Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a driver’s license you need a license to fish, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.

madville

(7,397 posts)
63. There is not a huge black market for illegally manufactured/imported firearms
Sun Sep 8, 2019, 12:01 PM
Sep 2019

Because they are readily available legally. It will be like any other prohibition, it will create a black market and business opportunity just like drug and alcohol prohibitions have done. Instead of money flowing to gun manufacturers it would then flow to the mob and the cartels who would set up manufacturing operations since gun manufacturing is basically just a small machine shop.

With automated CNC machining these days you don't even need highly skilled machinists either and high capacity magazines molding or 3D printing is easier than ever.

Since the gun may have been illegally manufactured and sold the background check argument is moot if they were already commiting felonies, one more wouldn't matter.

Maxheader

(4,366 posts)
68. Of course their are....
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 07:56 AM
Sep 2019


That's why they all need to be rounded up and confiscated..All the gun sellers should have records of purchases..start there..Homemade assault weapons would stick out like a sore thumb...

hack89

(39,171 posts)
69. Who exactly will be rounding them up?
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 08:25 AM
Sep 2019

Last edited Mon Sep 9, 2019, 01:37 PM - Edit history (1)

you really think the federal government is going to mobilize to seize all these guns? That's some pretty magical thinking there.

How quickly do you think red states and cities will declare themselves 2A sanctuaries and refuse to comply?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
72. On this particular subject, that is a fine line
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 01:41 PM
Sep 2019

there are some that are deadly serious about seizing all guns.

It is frustrating because there are actual solutions that could be implemented - I find wishing comments just muddy the water because they act more like litmus tests on guns in general instead of useful contributions to a ongoing conversation. They just generate more hate and discontent.

Maxheader

(4,366 posts)
81. I'm deadly serious about seizing all assult rifes..
Tue Sep 10, 2019, 06:48 AM
Sep 2019


Multi mag weapons...The rest need registering...the arm of the law needs a quarter of the defense budge to hire personel to maintain a new computer system with EVERY owner of firearms in its data base..
One of the findings of the brady gun bill report was that even if a proper system was in place to keep track of guns it was way short of staffing support..As far as enforcing this...use the national guard..some of them probably have mideast combat experience...Might come in handy for the "problems" that come up..

hack89

(39,171 posts)
86. Republicans support an authoritarian society
Tue Sep 10, 2019, 08:34 AM
Sep 2019

Last edited Tue Sep 10, 2019, 09:41 AM - Edit history (1)

Dems stand for individual freedoms. I don't want to live in a surveillance state. I don't trust police like you do.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Gun Used in Texas Shootin...