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[left-of-center2012]

This message was self-deleted by its author (left-of-center2012) on Thu Sep 12, 2019, 06:50 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[ashredux]

1. WTF?

[redwitch]

2. WTF

I hate these bastards. Is it enough yet?

[AJT]

3. Well, John McCain would not have been eligible to be president.

I believe he was born in Panama while his father was stationed while in the Navy.

[onenote]

8. Wrong. He was born in the Panama Canal Zone and there is a specific statutory provision

relating to children born to US parents stationed in the Panama Canal Zone.

[AJT]

9. Is that still true?

In 1999 final control of the Canal and its Zone reverted back to Panama.

[onenote]

15. 18 USC 1403

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1403&num=0&edition=prelim

[Ramsey Barner]

22. McCain's natural-born citizenship is still in question.

He was born in 1936, and the first statute granting citizenship to babies in his circumstances was passed in 1937. Then there's the issue of whether a statute can confer the same status as the Constitution. Here's some background:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/07/there-was-a-very-real-birther-debate-about-john-mccain/?noredirect=on

[onenote]

29. The fact the law was passed in 1937 is irrelevant

By its term it applies to anyone born in the Canal Zone from 1904 forward. As for whether Congress can define what constitutes a "natural born" citizen -- well, Congress passes laws implementing Constitutional provisions all the time and there is nothing in this law that is plainly at odds with the meaning of the ambiguous term "natural born."

[AJT]

25. Thanks!

[rainin]

4. This is outrageous! There is no one he won't f*ck!

[Brainfodder]

57. When I heard he allegedly stiffed even his lawyers, I had my answer?

Things people ignore are more upsetting sometimes than future deeds?

He is a walking RED FLAG at this point?

[Backseat Driver]

5. WTF?

[rampartc]

6. who is thinking of this stuff?

[pazzyanne]

13. My guess is little Stevie Miller.

Who else thinks up evil 24/7?

[Harker]

34. We could start a list... n/t

[OAITW r.2.0]

52. Dividing the ranks? Putin scores again!

Nftn

[Thekaspervote]

7. That will never stand

[Haggis for Breakfast]

21. You're GD right.

Is there nothing he WON'T do to FUCK with US troops serving overseas ? Commander-In-Chief, my ass.

First, it was screwing with the housing and benefits of the stateside families.

Then it was "Well, they knew what they signed up for."

Then he soiled himself when he denigrated and insulted Khizr and Ghazala Khan, the parents of a fallen soldier.

He also failed to call the families of fallen soldiers (Remember Sgt. LaDavid Johnson who was killed in an ambush in Niger ?). When he was finally embarrassed into doing so, he was insensitive and dismissive. [Do you know that Myeshia Johnson has yet to get a full accounting of her husband's death and was NEVER allowed to see his body ?] FL Rep, Frederika Wilson, who was a personal friend of the Johnsons, gave an accounting of trump's egregious handling of the death. He then insulted her and called her a liar.

He went overseas to speak to troops and LIED to them, telling them that they were getting a 10% raise in pay, and claimed that HE had done this all by himself. He also said that they hadn't gotten a raise in years (more BS), but that HE had secured this for them over the objections "of many people."

Cadet Bonespurs McMushroomDick is unfit to be ANYBODY'S Commander-In-Chief. His handling of military affairs has shown time and time again just how in over his head he is.

He is an insult to everyone in (or out of) uniform.

[regnaD kciN]

10. I'm not sure this is quite as it is being reported...

Although outrageous anyway, I think this mainly applies to children of U.S. permanent residents serving overseas. Previously, such children would be considered to have been born in the United States.

I see no way that the administration can change the principle that a child of a U.S. citizen born overseas is automatically a citizen at birth.

[LisaL]

26. Well the article clearly states children of US citizen parents. So parents are US citizens.

[Lonestarblue]

11. Can this be real?

The US maintains dozens of military bases outside the US, and families in non-combat locations reside on or around those bases. Diplomatic personnel reside around the world. So now Trump/Miller are saying that any children born outside the US will have to get in line to apply for citizenship. Trump has slowed the green card approval process so much that the backlog is now decades long. And he wants to end family-based immigration, so these children could be out of luck.

Obviously any Democratic president will overturn this policy, but this is outrageous. The very people who are protecting the US are now being told that their children cannot be US citizens. And you can bet that the children of white service members would get preference over the brown ones!

There is no bottom for how low Trump can go.

[onenote]

12. Immigration law is complicated and I think this action is being misunderstood.

The actions proposed to be taken relate to INA 320 and INA 322. These provisions apply to situations in which a foreign-born child does not acquire U.S. citizenship at birth For example, INA 320 applies to a child adopted by a U.S. citizen parent if the child satisfies the requirements applicable to adopted children under INA Section 101(b)(1). I do not think it applies to every child born to a US citizen parent who is in the military, although it may impact certain situations.

[mr_lebowski]

47. As I said last night, I agree ... the Hill is misreporting this, and everyone is falling for it ...

C'mon people ...

[Farmer-Rick]

55. The child citizenship law has a caveat that Traitor Trump is using to f*ck over the military.

The Child Citizenship Act of 2000 is a United States federal law that allows certain foreign-born, biological and adopted children of United States citizens to acquire United States citizenship automatically. ... The Act is known as Public Law 106-395, and is codified at 8 U.S.C. §§ 1431-33.

Here is the caveat that Traitor Trump's demons are using to f*ck over the military:

There is a special provision for children not residing in the United States when the law took effect; the US State Department states: "Children who acquire citizenship under this provision do not acquire citizenship automatically. They must apply to the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services in the Department of Homeland Security (USCIS) and go through the naturalization process."

Time for the "Evil One" to get more evil. And the crazy religious right thinks Traitor Trump is the Messiah....he's the evil described by Matthew

When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in the heart; this is what was sown on the path (Matthew 13:19).

[Mr.Bill]

14. The full story in the link explains it better.

It only affects a small amount of people.

[onenote]

17. +1

[Backseat Driver]

16. I thought those fundies

considered life beginning at conception--not birth? International flights home better have some free 1st class seats held back for our soldiers and foreign service folks - not even 9 months out from implementation? Disgusting and revolting policy!

So those Russians wanted to speak about adoption, huh? Adoption of what, not who, would be my question.

[Perseus]

18. I just hope that it opens the eyes of many on the military

Republicans are not the military friends, they just like to say so and yes its true they give a lot of money to the military, but it is money that comes back to them, they don't do it to support the military, they do it for the corporations that will give money to their campaigns.

[Scarsdale]

32. What about the foreign

women from Russia and other places, who come to the US to give birth so their child gets U.S. citizenship? Are THEY more entitled than service family members?

[ManiacJoe]

43. They are being targeted in a separate part of the same policy change.

[sakabatou]

19. That can't be legal

[left-of-center2012]

20. More from another source

Trump Admin Wants to Limit U.S. Citizenship for Kids Born Abroad

... if the child’s parents only became citizens after their child was born, parents will be required to apply on their kids’ behalf before they reach age 18 in order to obtain citizenship—and will usually be required to have obtained five years’ residence in the United States beforehand. Under the new policy, their time serving the U.S. government won’t count towards that time.

“The policy change explains that we will not consider children who live abroad with their parents to be residing in the United States even if their parents are U.S. government employees or U.S. service members stationed outside of the United States,” USCIS spokesperson Meredith Parker told Task & Purpose. “As a result, these children will no longer be considered to have acquired citizenship automatically.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-admin-wants-limit-u-211711089.html

[JI7]

23. how about prostitutes that come and marry fugly old men ?

[Scarsdale]

33. They are alright, they

can have their families come over, too. Even if they came here to be "escorts"

[UpInArms]

24. From another source

https://amp.businessinsider.com/trump-us-troops-kids-born-overseas-dont-get-automatic-citizenship-2019-8

Children born to US service members and government employees overseas will no longer be automatically considered citizens of the United States, according to policy alert issued by US Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) on Wednesday.

Previously, children born to US citizen parents were considered to be "residing in the United States," and therefore would be automatically given citizenship under Immigration and Nationality Act 320.

Now, children born to US service members and government employees, such as those born in US military hospitals or diplomatic facilities, will not be considered as residing in the US, changing the way that they potentially receive citizenship.

... snip ...

According to USCIS, previous legislation also explicitly said that spouses of service members who were living outside the US because of their spouses were considered residing in the US, but "that no similar provision was included for children of U.S. armed forces members in the acquisition of citizenship context is significant."

That is one of the reasons why USCIS has now decided that those children are not considered to be residing in the US, and therefore will not be automatically given citizenship. Instead, they will fall under INA 322, which considers them to be residing outside the US and requires them to apply for naturalization.

[mr_lebowski]

48. This representation, like The Hill story, sounds like bullshit as well ...

This is not what this rule change means.

[leftieNanner]

27. So John McCain

Would not be a citizen because he was born in Panama??? That's nuts.

Steven Miller has been putting in a lot of overtime.

[Sapient Donkey]

40. No, this wouldn't have affected him

This seems to mostly affect people who are not citizens while working for the US government overseas, have kids, and then become naturalized after their children are born. It sounds to me like those kids would then have to reside in the US for a certain number of years before they turn 18 so that the can become US citizens. So, unless McCain's parents were not US citizens then he would not have been affected by this.

That being said, I wonder how this will impact people in this situation who may be past the point in which their children can become citizens (13 years and older) Will these kids become stateless, or will there be something in place to ensure that doesn't happen. *edit* Actually, I guess that wouldn't be a risk since that kid should have citizenship of whatever country they are in, right?

*That's, of course, if I am understanding this correctly. I'm kinda stupid, so I may be interpreting this incorrectly.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

28. Is there anyone he won't piss off.

[Cryptoad]

30. It according to how dark their skin is,,,,,,,

[Scarsdale]

31. I gave birth to two

of my children at US Air Force base hospitals, and they are considered US citizens. One in the UK, one in Germany. Their father was a service member, and I am British. U.S. bases overseas are considered U.S. territory.

[Skittles]

36. same with two of my brothers (British mum)

f*** Trump

[onenote]

49. The new policy guidance doesn't impact such a situation today

Before and after this policy guidance change, a child born outside the US to a US citizen parent and a foreign national gets citizenship at birth so long as the US citizen parent was, at any point prior to the birth, physically present in the US for five years (not necessarily continuous) and two of those years were after the age of 14.

[lillypaddle]

35. Born in Erlangen, Germany, in 1947

at my Mother's home, via a midwife. I have a German birth certificate showing my American army father and my German mother's names. I have NEVER had my birth certificate questioned - I got a passport easily in 2000, but it's now expired.

This is unfuckingbelievable.

[Keg Stand]

37. I'm so sick of of watching Trump see just how low he can go and this time he's topped himself.

I can't wait to vote against that asshole.

[rickford66]

38. The GOP considers a fetus is a person at conception.

So to prove your child is a US citizen, you will have to prove no conception takes place after every sex act while out of the country. To quote Trump ... "When will it end ?"

[Kilgore]

39. Not exactly accurate

Reading further down the story one finds...

USCIS issued a clarification to the rule later Wednesday, explaining that the new rule would only affect three categories of people: Children of non-U.S. citizens adopted by U.S. citizen government employees or service members; children of non-U.S. citizen government employees or service members who were naturalized after the child's birth; and children of U.S. citizens who do not meet residency requirements.

And

“This kind of memo is the sort of thing that you don’t put out to the general public without a very bold-faced letter executive summary saying ‘Here’s what this does not do,’” said Bradley Moss, a lawyer with expertise in national security.

“This changes nothing if you are a child born overseas to two U.S. citizens on a military base or just overseas in general – you are fine as a matter of law … you are still considered a U.S. citizen so long as one of your parents had been a physical resident within the United States," he added.

[Keg Stand]

41. This is better.

Last edited Wed Aug 28, 2019, 09:35 PM - Edit history (1)

“This changes nothing if you are a child born overseas to two U.S. citizens on a military base or just overseas in general – you are fine as a matter of law … you are still considered a U.S. citizen so long as one of your parents had been a physical resident within the United States," he added.

[Kilgore]

42. Yep

[Scarsdale]

44. I wonder if this is

directed at the Hispanics who joined the service after being told that citizenship would be on a fast track for them after their service?

[The Newseum]

45. will it get him impeach after the new turn in Trump tax return matter.

Looks like he is done.
http://www.thenewzeum.com/Home/ReadMore/456-Deutsche_Bank_disclose_tax_returns_that_are_tied_to_Donald_Trump

[trueblue2007]

46. i want him gone

Last edited Thu Aug 29, 2019, 04:12 AM - Edit history (1)

[kimbutgar]

50. He's also taking away voting rights of military people overseas by raising postal rates

So this is just one more chip away he is doing to hurt the military.

And sadly they will still vote for him in 2020 because rush on the armed forces radio tells them he is the greatest president ever in their lifetimes.

[OAITW r.2.0]

51. Putin scores again....tired of winning?

Nftn

[Haggis for Breakfast]

61. Not Putin

This has Stephen Ratfucker Miller's fingerprints all over it.

[duforsure]

53. trump, putin's puppet

Hates service members unless they can get him out of trouble, and why any service member would support such a traitor is beyond me. HE hates America or he wouldn't be doing this.

[George II]

54. What a scumbag! This would mean that John McCain wouldn't be an American citizen...

...unless he went through trump's arduous procedures.

He becomes more hateful by the day.

[onenote]

56. No it wouldn't.

First of all, there is a separate statutory provision, unaffected by the policy guidance, that addresses children born in the Panama Canal Zone after 1904.

Second, even without that provision, nothing in the new policy guidance changes the fact that a child born overseas with two US citizen parents acquires citizenship at birth.

You should delete your erroneous post.

[left-of-center2012]

58. This info ...

This info is posted on numerous news websites and is on cable news.

[onenote]

59. Link?

[left-of-center2012]

60. Link to "numerous news websites and cable news" ?

Google is your friend:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Trump+officials+say+children+of+US+service+members+overseas+will+not+get+automatic+citizenship&oq=Trump+officials+say+children+of+US+service+members+overseas+will+not+get+automatic+citizenship&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i61&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[onenote]

62. Yes. Google is my friend.

Not one story even mentions the separate Panama Canal Zone law that applied to and continues to apply to persons in McCains situation.

But more importantly, once people actually looked at the policy guidance, it became clear that it impacts only a small set of circumstances, none of which describe the McCain situation. Specifically, the only situations to which the policy guidance applies are:
parents who adopted children while serving abroad
parents who became U.S. citizens after their children were born
parents who are U.S. citizens but have never lived here
recently naturalized citizens who have not met the U.S. residency requirements to transmit citizenship to their children automatically

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/29/755506286/what-do-new-citizenship-rules-for-kids-of-u-s-military-workers-abroad-mean

So, as I said, you should delete your post suggesting that this policy guidance would have impacted McCain's citizenship status.

[left-of-center2012]

64. This

Last edited Fri Aug 30, 2019, 10:55 AM - Edit history (1)

Putting you on "Ignore"

[onenote]

66. Being ignored by someone who can't get his/her facts straight? I'm heartbroken.

[Totally Tunsie]

63. I have to wonder if this isn't Chump/Miller's perverted way

of discouraging families to be in residence with the military spouse in an overseas locale. IOW, let the "little woman" stay here in the States where she belongs, put off having kids until service severance, keep government expenses to the minimum.

It's much like the move west of government offices caused 50% of the affected department to resign. A negative? Nope. Mulvany is now crowing about how this natural attrition was a brilliant move on tRump & Co.'s part, for which they should be applauded.

Despite the vulgarities of this administration, one has to wonder at its ability to spin every damn story to be in their favor, each and every time. I can't even imagine the workings of the minds involved in the governing of our nation.

Stephen Miller, Stephen Miller, Stephen Miller...

[onenote]

65. This doesn't impact couples where both are US citizens

which almost certainly is the majority of situations involving married overseas military and government employees. And even if only one of the couple is a US citizen (and the other a foreign national), the new policy guidance rarely if ever would have any impact since the child of such a couple, if born overseas, still is a citizen at birth if one of the parents was physically present (at any time prior to the child's birth) in the US for five years, 2 of which were after that parent was 14.