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Wed Aug 21, 2019, 07:47 PM

Faithless elector: A court ruling just changed how we pick our president

Source: NBC

A federal appeals court ruled late Tuesday that presidential electors who cast the actual ballots for president and vice president are free to vote as they wish and cannot be required to follow the results of the popular vote in their states.

The decision could give a single elector the power to decide the outcome of a presidential election — if the popular vote results in an apparent Electoral College tie.
"This issue could be a ticking time bomb in our divided politics. It's not hard to imagine how a single faithless elector, voting differently than his or her state did, could swing a close presidential election," said Mark Murray, NBC News senior political editor.

It hasn't been much of an issue in American political history because when an elector refuses to follow the results of a state's popular vote, the state simply throws the ballot away. But Tuesday's ruling says states cannot do that.



Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/faithless-elector-a-court-ruling-just-changed-how-we-pick-our-president/ar-AAG8tdZ?li=BBnb7Kz

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Arrow 40 replies Author Time Post
Reply Faithless elector: A court ruling just changed how we pick our president (Original post)
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Aug 21 OP
Orangepeel Aug 21 #1
bluestarone Aug 21 #3
bdamomma Aug 23 #35
Retrograde Aug 21 #2
Lars39 Aug 21 #4
LisaM Aug 21 #8
onenote Aug 22 #27
onenote Aug 22 #25
MichMan Aug 21 #5
lagomorph777 Aug 23 #39
BigmanPigman Aug 21 #6
BlueMTexpat Aug 22 #17
JudyM Aug 22 #26
BigmanPigman Aug 22 #28
JudyM Aug 22 #29
BigmanPigman Aug 22 #30
JudyM Aug 22 #31
NYC Liberal Aug 23 #34
bdamomma Aug 23 #36
BigmanPigman Aug 23 #40
Cryptoad Aug 21 #7
htuttle Aug 21 #14
roody Aug 21 #9
El Supremo Aug 21 #10
Marthe48 Aug 21 #11
Igel Aug 21 #12
onenote Aug 22 #24
Polybius Aug 21 #13
YOHABLO Aug 21 #15
onetexan Aug 23 #38
PoliticAverse Aug 21 #16
Recursion Aug 22 #18
DeminPennswoods Aug 22 #19
PRETZEL Aug 22 #21
ProfessorPlum Aug 22 #23
Locutusofborg Aug 23 #32
BadGimp Aug 22 #20
malthaussen Aug 22 #22
treestar Aug 23 #33
MarkmBha1 Aug 23 #37

Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 07:58 PM

1. electors are chosen because they are highly partisan

they aren't random people. it is highly unlikely that an elector would vote in a way that would swing the election.

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Response to Orangepeel (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 08:03 PM

3. I know you're 100% right BUT

This day and age with everything going so shitty, i can't help but feel uneasy about everything concerning our 2020 election! I trust nothing anymore.

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 10:52 AM

35. This regime

wants everyone to think that, not to trust anything anymore, which could be very dangerous for us.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 08:03 PM

2. The faithless electors in 2016

were all Democrats - at least in name - who voted for someone other than Clinton. Republicans tend to be much better about following party directives.

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Response to Retrograde (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 08:04 PM

4. iirc, some were even lobbyists.

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Response to Retrograde (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 08:26 PM

8. Yes, there was one in Washington state

who said that he wouldn't vote for Hillary even if it cost her the election.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 01:09 PM

27. Right. Robert Satiacum Jr., a native American activist, cast his vote for Spotted Faith Eagle.

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Response to Retrograde (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 01:01 PM

25. Wrong. There were both Republican and Democratic faithless electors in 2016

Five electors pledged to Clinton in states won by Clinton cast their votes for another person: 3 for Colin Powell, 1 for Bernie Sanders, and one for Faith Spotted Eagle.

Two electors pledged to Trump cast in states won by Trump cast their votes for another person: one for Kasich and one for Ron Paul.

Three other faithless elector votes were disallowed. Both were in states won by Clinton. In Minnesota, 2 of Clinton-pledged electors voted for Bernie Sanders. And in Colorado, one elector pledged to Clinton voted for Kasich, which is the situation that gave rise to the lawsuit.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 08:18 PM

5. Is bribery permissible?

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Response to MichMan (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 02:34 PM

39. Yes: See Citizens United and many other recent cases.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 08:18 PM

6. Another reason to get rid of the Electoral College

completely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know we need a constitutional amendment to do this but it can be done...look at prohibition.

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 01:27 AM

17. THIS!!!!!

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 01:03 PM

26. + 1 (trillion)

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Response to JudyM (Reply #26)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 05:41 PM

28. Even Lawrence Tribe mentioned this in an article today.

"The Constitution is not perfect. It has any number of flaws, such as the Electoral College. But despite its structural flaws the United States Constitution is pretty good — if we have the right people leading the country. But if you have a Congress of the United States that has no interest in doing anything but getting re-elected, and if they're slavishly following one leader and they're unwilling to hold them to account, then the United States and the American people are really in trouble."


https://www.salon.com/2019/08/22/constitutional-scholar-laurence-tribe-if-the-framers-could-be-resurrected-theyd-want-impeachment/

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #28)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 10:32 PM

29. Apparently we need an enforceable code of conduct for Congress

that includes “people/country over party” and “people over donors,” etc.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #29)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 10:38 PM

30. I don't think some members of Congress

even classify as "people" at this stage of the game. They seem to resemble pod look alikes from Invasion of the Body Snatchers. They may look like people but they do NOT act like people.

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #30)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 10:58 PM

31. Lol, some do not even look like people!

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 10:49 AM

34. It'll happen as soon as a Republican wins the popular vote but loses the EC,

something that so far has only happened to Democrats.

About 5 minutes after it happens to a Republican, every GOP legislature in the country will be ratifying the amendment.

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 10:57 AM

36. I thought states were working on this

to eliminate the electoral college.

found this article:

https://www.businessinsider.com/states-national-popular-vote-compact-electoral-college-president-election-2019-4

snip of article:


14 states and the District of Columbia have joined a movement to bypass the Electoral College and join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, in which member states pledge to give all their Electoral College votes to the winner of the popular vote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

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Response to bdamomma (Reply #36)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 03:58 PM

40. I read about this before too.

I think the blue states are slowly accepting it but the red ones are not (naturally).

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 08:20 PM

7. Rumor control has it

Trump and Oligarch bud are busy setting up off shore shell company accounts for 270 electors.......

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Response to Cryptoad (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 11:01 PM

14. Had the same thought

The list of potential targets for bribery and blackmail just got longer.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 08:45 PM

9. Another issue but related

A few Democratic superdelegates voted for the candidate that did not win their state's primary.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 08:53 PM

10. BFD

Interference in our elections by Russia is a far greater issue.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 09:24 PM

11. Can the ruling be appealed?

Its a federal ruling, might it go to the s.c?

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Response to Marthe48 (Reply #11)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 10:20 PM

12. I remember when this case was filed.

My first thought was, "Constitution doesn't place limits, states won't be allowed to."

I may not like faithless electors, but in certain circumstances I could see them saving a lot of pain, cost, time, and, well, pain--it's worth saying twice). I also think that having states dictate to the Constitution is a bit strange, even if it's something I like.

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Response to Marthe48 (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 12:54 PM

24. yes, and given that it was a 2-1 decision, I would expect either a petition for rehearing

by the entire 10th circuit or a petition for certiorari to the Supreme Court.

The two judges ruling that faithless electors can't be compelled to vote a particular way were an Obama appointee (who wrote the opinion) and a GWBush appointee. The dissent came from a judge appointed by Bill Clinton.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 10:35 PM

13. Good ruling IMO

We might not like the EC, but it's in place at the moment.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 11:26 PM

15. The Electoral system must be terminated. It's a farce. It's anti-democratic IMO.

Same with Super Delegates. BShite.

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #15)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 02:28 PM

38. agree - K&R

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 11:33 PM

16. It really didn't change "how we pick our president". Also few really think "faithless elector"...

Last edited Thu Aug 22, 2019, 01:08 PM - Edit history (1)

laws are constitutional.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 02:59 AM

18. Honestly I can't think of an argument in the other direction

It's hard to say that's not the clear sense of the Constitution.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 04:19 AM

19. This is how the Electoral College was intended to work

by the Framers - as a check on putting an unfit candidate, who might be elected by popular vote, in the office of president.

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Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 11:41 AM

21. Totally agree

I think it's the evolution of states adopting "winner takes all" is the bigger issue, not the actual framework.

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Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 12:34 PM

23. and we see that it is a failure at its one job

of keeping unfit candidates out.

Ironic that the EC in trying to prevent unfit candidates by popular vote, has delivered to us an unfit candidate via the electoral college.

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Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 01:19 AM

32. But it could also work just the opposite

One elector could put an unfit candidate, who might have LOST the popular vote in the office of president. Sound familiar?

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 11:27 AM

20. Yet another opening for Trump, the GOP and Putin to steal our 2020 Elections.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 11:53 AM

22. The judge could hardly have ruled otherwise.

There would be no point to the Electoral College if electors simply followed the popular vote.

Wait a minute...

-- Mal

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 09:38 AM

33. The original intent seems to me to be

that his be the case and it should have worked that way in 2016. The whole point was for them to save us from a deranged mad president. The winner take all in each state election was passed later, probably thinking that it made it the will of the people, but since the number of electors per state is the number of representatives plus 2 for Senators, the per-Senator votes allow the distortion that makes it possible for the popular vote winner to lose.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 11:06 AM

37. Gov't.

America needs a new form of government - now!

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