HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » Trump says administration...

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:09 PM

Trump says administration looking 'seriously' at ending birthright citizenship

Source: The Hill

President Trump on Wednesday said his administration is once again seriously considering an executive order to end birthright citizenship months after several lawmakers cast doubt on his ability to take such action.

"We're looking at that very seriously," Trump told reporters as he left the White House for Kentucky. "Birthright citizenship, where you have a baby on our land -- walk over the border, have a baby, congratulations, the baby's now a U.S. citizen."

"We are looking at birthright citizenship very seriously," he added. "Itís, frankly, ridiculous."

The president proposed ending the practice that grants citizenship to those born in the United States during his 2016 presidential campaign. He revived the idea last year, saying he would sign an executive order to enact the change. Numerous lawmakers, including several Republicans, quickly pushed back on the idea and argued Trump lacked the authority to make such a change using an executive order. They cited that birthright citizenship is a right enshrined under the 14th Amendment.

Read more: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/458276-trump-says-administration-looking-seriously-at-ending-birthright?__twitter_impression=true

63 replies, 3825 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 63 replies Author Time Post
Reply Trump says administration looking 'seriously' at ending birthright citizenship (Original post)
Mrs. Overall Aug 21 OP
Meadowoak Aug 21 #1
bitterross Aug 21 #7
PaulRevere08 Aug 21 #27
TheBlackAdder Aug 21 #38
not_the_one Aug 21 #46
COLGATE4 Aug 21 #47
keithbvadu2 Aug 21 #52
dobleremolque Aug 21 #2
no_hypocrisy Aug 21 #3
hibbing Aug 21 #4
bucolic_frolic Aug 21 #5
FiveGoodMen Aug 21 #13
NCjack Aug 21 #16
bucolic_frolic Aug 21 #17
FiveGoodMen Aug 21 #18
groundloop Aug 21 #6
Red Pest Aug 21 #8
maxrandb Aug 21 #11
rurallib Aug 21 #12
TeamPooka Aug 21 #20
wasupaloopa Aug 21 #35
Thekaspervote Aug 21 #23
customerserviceguy Aug 21 #36
The Mouth Aug 21 #49
WhoWoodaKnew Aug 22 #60
Freethinker65 Aug 21 #9
TreasonousBastard Aug 21 #10
evertonfc Aug 21 #14
IcyPeas Aug 21 #15
JustABozoOnThisBus Aug 22 #59
flotsam Aug 21 #19
colorado_ufo Aug 21 #21
FiveGoodMen Aug 21 #31
rsdsharp Aug 21 #22
FiveGoodMen Aug 21 #32
MBS Aug 21 #24
durablend Aug 21 #25
Newest Reality Aug 21 #28
FiveGoodMen Aug 21 #34
customerserviceguy Aug 21 #37
IronLionZion Aug 21 #42
Igel Aug 21 #43
Guilded Lilly Aug 21 #26
MBS Aug 21 #29
wasupaloopa Aug 21 #30
area51 Aug 21 #33
ancianita Aug 21 #39
jmowreader Aug 21 #40
Kid Berwyn Aug 21 #41
dalton99a Aug 21 #44
BumRushDaShow Aug 21 #48
duforsure Aug 21 #45
BadGimp Aug 21 #50
katmondoo Aug 21 #51
Chicago1980 Aug 21 #53
Celerity Aug 21 #54
SpankMe Aug 21 #55
tclambert Aug 22 #56
Kablooie Aug 22 #57
muriel_volestrangler Aug 22 #58
Fortinbras Armstrong Aug 22 #61
Nitram Aug 22 #62
malthaussen Aug 22 #63

Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:17 PM

1. The nuts over at free republic are ecstatic over this. They

Think Trump can do it by executive order..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Meadowoak (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:22 PM

7. The same people who thought EO's by Obama were always an over-reach

The lack of consistency in their position does not surprise me one bit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Meadowoak (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:15 PM

27. Yet another example of how little the rethugs think of the Constitution. They will

do anything to protect their version of the 2nd amendment. The other 26 not so much.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Meadowoak (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:57 PM

38. He should start with all of those Russians who fly into his FL properties to give birth and fly back

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #38)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:00 PM

46. Agreed

Imagine about 20 to 25 years from now...

All those Russian/American dual citizens can fly in, set up, and do whatever they want, and we have given them absolute free access. Thanks to turdface allowing his properties to be used for that purpose.

Don't you think that Putin sees this as an easy way to get us? He is always looking at the long term plan....

Apparently there are hotels set up on both coasts, just for rich foreigners to fly in, have the baby and leave, and it is an American citizen. (I don't know if the west coast hotels are the turds... but Miami has them.)

So, on one hand we have POC babies and children, being held indefinitely, and while that is happening they are receiving NO education, so they are angry AND uninformed (and if they grow up in the US, angry and uninformed, they will also have easy access to guns of any kind)

and

on the other hand we have a perfect birthing and incubation of Russian infiltrators, with money to do whatever they want, hell bent on causing maximum chaos...

What could possibly go wrong?

I have no problem with making it a little more difficult to being an American citizen.

That DOESN'T mean I am in agreement with turdface. There can be a rational and workable solution.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Meadowoak (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:02 PM

47. They're literally pissing their pants at the thought

that Dumpy and his minions can take away the citizenship already children born in the US under the terms of the 14th Amendment - so much so that many are hoping hope against hope that Dumbshit "makes it retroactive, 50 or 60 years". This is some serious stupid, combined with an extra helping of cray cray.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Meadowoak (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 09:46 PM

52. Precedent for an EO to cancel the Second Amendment.

Precedent for an EO to cancel the Second Amendment.

You're sure about this, FR?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:17 PM

2. But how will Mar a Lago and other Trump properties cope

without those wealthy pregnant Chinese and Russian women who wait for their child to be born in the U.S.?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/birth-tourism-brings-russian-baby-boom-miami-n836121

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:17 PM

3. THAT won't go over bigly with the Russian and Chinese oligarchs who

get Tourist Visas for certain pregnant women with the purpose of giving birth in this country and obtaining a passport and a Social Security card.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:17 PM

4. The racism is in full bloom today n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:17 PM

5. I think I know what they mean, but but but

strictly speaking, "ending birthright citizenship" means no more new naturally born citizens. This would lead to population collapse.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:34 PM

13. The population wouldn't collapse

We'd just all be slaves instead of citizens with rights.

And that is EXACTLY the point!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:49 PM

16. Those with money will buy citizenship. The rest of us will be their slaves. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:54 PM

17. If that is what they intend they misread America in every sense

They would provoke a fight to the finish. Live free or die. Americans don't often live that way because they enslave themselves willingly to debt, laws, rules, regulations, but just try to take it all away and they will respond.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #17)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:55 PM

18. They have been taking it away and we haven't responded.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:18 PM

6. Since tRump is the Chosen One he's above the Constitution

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:22 PM

8. 14th Amendment, Section 1

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Executive order to block birthright citizenship - total bullshit. Trump is not a king (not of the USA or of Israel) and certainly not the second coming of God.

Basically, what we have is a man flailing around trying to find something to save his dying presidency. We have had enough (Dayenu!) of him and his enablers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Red Pest (Reply #8)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:26 PM

11. Below captures where I'm at with this shitshow

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Red Pest (Reply #8)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:28 PM

12. Almost makes you wonder if his SCOTUS would rule in his favor

on a challenge to such an EO.

Seems pretty black & white to me, but I am no Supreme Court justice beholden to Trump or the right wing in this country.

Welcome to DU

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rurallib (Reply #12)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:55 PM

20. That's when we find out how corrupt the Court is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rurallib (Reply #12)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:37 PM

35. It would give us a reason to impeach them all if we gain control Of Congress.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Red Pest (Reply #8)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:05 PM

23. Thx for pointing us to the 14th amendment

Donít think SCOTUS would even touch that. Conservative or no

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #23)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:44 PM

36. The key phrase is

"...and subject to the jurisdiction thereof..."

Clearly, a child born to a foreign diplomat stationed in the US is not a US citizen. It could also be argued that if an invading army conquered part of the US, that children arising from such a circumstance also would not be covered by the Amendment.

The Trump administration will use that line of reasoning with the SCOTUS.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #23)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:51 PM

49. Their argument is that the 14th was *entirely*

about ensuring that slaves and their children would be citizens. I do think that was the original intent, but the wording of the Constitution is what it is regardless of any original reasons; anyone who doesn't like what the Constitutions says needs to get it changed rather than bitch or try to override it, left or right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Red Pest (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 08:59 AM

60. EVERYBODY read the last paragraph above.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:24 PM

9. Ah yes. Overturning the US Constitution by Executive Order

Why hasn't anyone one else tried that before???

Ailto and Thomas might go along with it, and Kavanaugh if you give him a keg or two.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:46 PM

14. Impeach

This statement alone should be the alarm to start impeachment hearings. This is as dangerous a statement as you can make. The very Constitution is on the line.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:49 PM

15. let's just all self-deport ourselves unless

you are Native American. and start all over again peacefully.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to IcyPeas (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 06:52 AM

59. Native Americans are probably descended from Siberian migrants ...

... who crossed the Bering Sea and inhabited a continent. And none of those migrants had green cards.

So we all need to leave, with the horses we rode in on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:55 PM

19. Go fuck yourself with a steaming corn cob you traitorous unpatriotic moron N/T

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 02:59 PM

21. Wouldn't that be a great tool for coercion?

"Become a Republican (Trumpian?), vote accordingly, or have your birthright citizenship yanked.

If it can be done for one, where would it stop?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to colorado_ufo (Reply #21)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:26 PM

31. They're working on their master loophole. It's been done before.

The 1936 Soviet Constitution, adopted on 5 December 1936 and also known as the Stalin Constitution, redesigned the government of the Soviet Union. It nominally granted all manner of rights and freedoms, and spelled out a number of democratic procedures. In practice, by asserting the "leading role" of the Communist Party, it cemented the complete control of the party and its leader, Joseph Stalin.

[Emphasis mine]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Constitution_of_the_Soviet_Union

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:03 PM

22. Donnie, which part of the 14th Amendment don't you understand?

Oh, wait. Sorry.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rsdsharp (Reply #22)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:28 PM

32. The part where it's not up to him

And maybe that isn't true. If we treat our constitution like "just a goddamned piece of paper" then that's all it is.

Why isn't the whole country up in arms by now?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:08 PM

24. Since when can you repeal a constitutional amendment by executive order? n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MBS (Reply #24)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:11 PM

25. Guess we may find out!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to durablend (Reply #25)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:17 PM

28. Yeah!

Well, I insist that he makes his royal decree retroactive and we will all have to GTFO, which means that the Indigenous peoples get all their land back and that's the only good that would come of it.

So, when will we start packing up to leave and how will the transition of government be handed over to the American Indians? Inquiring minds want to know.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MBS (Reply #24)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:29 PM

34. Since his opposition took impeachment off the table.

Again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MBS (Reply #24)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:47 PM

37. You can tweak words in an Amendment

Until the 21st Amendment repealing Prohibition was ratified, the Volstead Act allowed malt beverages to have up to 0.5% alcohol by volume. While the effort to write, pass, and ratify the 21st was ongoing, FDR issued an order which changed the 0.5% to 3.2%, so Americans could have beer again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MBS (Reply #24)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 04:51 PM

42. I feel like we should repeal the 2nd amendment next

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to IronLionZion (Reply #42)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 05:14 PM

43. Many want to reinterpret it.

At least some by EO.

It's been done a few times, with different laws and provisions. Saying that it's only the formal militia, or that arms aren't the heirs to 18th-century firearms but precisely 18th-century firearms, or that "bear" only includes inside your house and to a local firing range (but nothing more) aren't that dissimilar.

Upthread there's a Soviet example. On the other hand, the Soviet constitution gave the rights to gun ownership. Except in practice you needed registration, training, permission, the gun had to be kept in a gun locker under militia or gun-range supervision, and if you wanted to transport it for, say, hunting you needed a special permit. (The right to own firearms was as carefully expanded and broadened as the right to freely practice religion.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:14 PM

26. OUT. NOW. Any excuse is spineless. OUT. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Guilded Lilly (Reply #26)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:18 PM

29. + 1000 n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:22 PM

30. He is driven by hate. A life lived as he does generates such negative karma

that he will be reincarnated as a fly who eats shit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:28 PM

33. Will it be done retroactively?

I believe Barron Trump was an anchor baby.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 04:11 PM

39. Why are we automatically talking about adjusting to this. No. Take his ass to court. We won't lose.

This is to keep his opponents busy reacting, and his base mollified.

That's IT.

Wait until he actually does something.

Then wait until lawyers actually do something back.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 04:14 PM

40. That's a hellaciously strong executive order he can issue...

If he can issue an EO to overturn the 14th Amendment, he can also overturn the parts of the Constitution that require presidential elections, impose term limits, ban cruel and unusual punishment, mandate speedy trials...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 04:49 PM

41. Start with Barron.

Melania is an illegal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kid Berwyn (Reply #41)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 05:16 PM

44. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kid Berwyn (Reply #41)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:32 PM

48. You can go back even further to

his oldest 3. Ivana was an "illegal" as well until 1988.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 05:34 PM

45. This is just the start

He'll then go after all minorities and opposition groups , women, disabled people, and everyone who isn't as corrupt as he is. Just like putin did, hmmmm.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:51 PM

50. There seems to be no depths of cruelty he's not willing to plum...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 07:14 PM

51. I think my Grandparents on both sides came here legally but I would have no way of proving it.

I could be deported but to where. On my fathers side they are from Quebec On my mothers they are from Poland. No idea of where in Poland and I don't know if they were citizens. This was at the turn of the century and Poland never had stable borders. I am sure I am not the only American with this type of problem. As a protester the Trumpers could decide to deport non supporters of this regime.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 09:56 PM

53. Funny thing...

Melania Trump becomes a citizen in 2006, which is the same year her kid was born.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chicago1980 (Reply #53)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 10:51 PM

54. Barron was born March 20, 2006, so conceived in 2005 (thus alive, according to RWers) before Melania

was a citizen. IF she was illegally here, then that opens up an interesting can of worms. Rump himself was a citizen, so I guess he would shoot that angle. Melania someday needs to be stripped of her citizenship IF she committed fraud to get it and summarily deported back to Slovenia, back to the minor leagues of gold-digging and grifting. Same for her chain-migration grifting parents.

The actual Trumps (and Jared Kushner) all belong in prison for life, save for Barron and Tiffany. Also, ALL their entire family fortune (and Jared Kushner's) needs to be seized for reparations to humanity.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 11:14 PM

55. I say - let 'em do it.

Say he does the executive order, nullifies the portion of the 14th amendment that deals with birthright citizenship and it goes to courts and somehow Trump prevails.

This would become a solid, parallel and and unambiguous precedent for nullifying the 2nd amendment and getting real gun reform accomplished. So, the next time a Dem occupies the White House (and there WILL be a next time at some point) we can win on that issue using the Republicans' own rules.

They can eat my ass. All of them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 01:21 AM

56. Isn't Donald Trump himself a citizen just because he was born here?

He'd never be able to pass a citizenship test.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 01:37 AM

57. So a president's executive order can override the Constitution?

Sounds nice. Then he can override the 1st amendment and really get to work on the country.
Easy peasy!


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 04:23 AM

58. So it's fine for Trump to call the US Constitution "ridiculous", but he throws a tantrum ...

... when a discussion is called "absurd"?

I wonder if this is what the tantrum was designed to push down the news order.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:17 AM

61. The issue of birthright citizenship came before the Supreme Court in 1898

United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898). Wong was born in San Francisco, the son of a Chinese couple who, because of the Chinese Exclusion Acts, were legally prohibited from becoming US citizens. Wong had gone to China to visit relatives, and on return to the US, was refused admittance under the Chinese Exclusion Acts. He sued, saying that under the Fourteenth Amendment, his birth in the US made him a citizen.

The Supreme Court, by a vote of 6-2, agreed with Wong. Justice Gray wrote the majority opinion, which basically says that everyone, with a few specific exceptions -- chiefly the children of diplomats -- born in the US is a US citizen. He has a very interesting discussion of the term "natural born citizen". See https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/169/649

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 11:37 AM

62. Trump still hasn't read the constitution.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mrs. Overall (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 11:56 AM

63. Can an XO Trump the Constitution?

It sure can if nobody does anything about it.

-- Mal

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread