Attorney wants jurors who won't judge client's face tattoos

[Judi Lynn]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Yonnie3 (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Associated Press

Updated 12:54 pm CDT, Tuesday, August 6, 2019



Photo: AP

In this photo provided by East Baton Rouge Parish Sheriff's office shows William Bottoms Jr. The defense attorney for Bottoms, charged with murder, wants jurors who won't judge his client because of his face and neck tattoos, which include devil horns and skull teeth. Most of the potential jurors attorney Jarvis Antwine spoke with Monday, Aug. 5, 2019 said they don't have a problem with Bottoms' tattoos. (East Baton Rouge Parish Sheriff's office via AP)

BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — A defense attorney for a man charged with murder wants jurors who won't judge his client because of his face and neck tattoos, which include devil horns and skull teeth.

The Advocate reports that most of the potential jurors attorney Jarvis Antwine spoke with Monday said they don't have a problem with William Bottoms Jr.'s tattoos.

Bottoms is charged with second-degree murder in the 2017 deaths of two men.

Megan Marie Gaylord was his girlfriend and is scheduled to testify for prosecutors. She told investigators that the four of them did drugs together before a paranoid Bottoms killed the men.

Bottoms' twin brother was killed in April by Mississippi authorities trying to arrest him for being a felon in possession of a gun.

The brothers had several matching face tattoos.

Read more: https://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/Attorney-wants-jurors-who-won-t-judge-client-s-14283702.php

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(Short article, no more at link.)

[jberryhill]

1. I can't see how they would matter as to whether or not he's guilty

[Whiskeytide]

55. It doesn't. But I suspect it will matter ...

... on the issue of whether or not he’s convicted. I would be hard pressed to strike a jury in Alabama on which 50% of the members would not vote to convict on his appearance alone - before openings. At least the lawyer is trying to get out in front of it.

[moreland01]

2. I would totally be influenced by his looks.

That and the testimony of his girlfriend who said that he murdered the men. Why in the hell would you want to look like that?

[rampartc]

10. he had a "girl friend?"

i'd hate to be on a jury for her issues.

i'm sorry, but i can not hire someone with that level of visible ink. i'm wondering why they do it?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

3. I could not be on that jury.

I have difficulty understanding a lot of tattooing, by which I mean someone who's covered much of his visible skin with tattoos. I don't understand facial tattoos, and especially don't understand the kind that make you look like a monster. Because presumably that is EXACTLY what you intended.

[hlthe2b]

7. Me either. The ONLY reason they'd want me over someone else is because

I am firmly against the death penalty. I could not honestly say that the depictions of his tattoos, beyond the tattoos themselves, did not bother me.

I'd suggest the defense make a case for BLIND jurors or have his client appear behind an opaque screen if they feel that strongly and suggest only that the defendant was "disfigured"--because no matter one's attitude towards tattoos, he certainly IS.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

29. I likewise am completely against state sanctioned pre-meditated murder.

Which is actually what the "death penalty" is.

Unfortunately, being against that means you won't make the jury in a capital case.

Alas, I have never been on a jury, and I've only had jury duty once in my life.

[hlthe2b]

35. I was eliminated in voir dire for a murder case because I was quite opinionated about guns

and made it clear that I saw a distinct difference between self-defense and premeditation.

While I genuinely showed up not knowing what the case was or any details whatsoever, I immediately clued in that the defense was very worried about guns and thus strongly suspected (rightly it seems) that they were trying to set up self-defense. As it turns out, I said ALL THE RIGHT THINGS, since right after I was eliminated (with only a handful of jurors selected) they called a conference with the judge and requested a mistrial to pursue a psych evaluation. Two years later they finally convicted him and the fact was he'd argued with his older neighbor for years and after a property dispute, went home to get his AR15 and blew him away. Yet, THAT was what they thought they could sell as self-defense. Amazing!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

41. Fascinating.

The one time I was called for jury duty, sat through almost an entire day of voire dire before I was sent home (not for any reason like yours, but because once they eventually started talking to me, we had a family vacation planned, leaving in two days, airplane tickets already purchased) and about two years later read about the final disposition in the local paper.

A woman was accused by the insurance company of deliberately burning her car to collect insurance money. The original jury convicted. On appeal, the conviction was thrown out with the judge saying in effect, "I cannot believe that this was ever allowed to go to trial since it is beyond obvious that the car was stolen from this woman and she did not set it up to collect the insurance."

[RobinA]

45. Are You From PA?

We have a very similar case. Just convicted the guy. Judging by the newspaper coverage, the dead guy was a horse’s ass who taunted the killer.

[hlthe2b]

46. No.. this was a case from Northern Colorado from 2015... Sadly, similar cases are probably all

too frequent.

[MicaelS]

40. Murder is defined as ...

Unlawful killing with malice aforethought.

The key word is unlawful.

If the state says it is legal, it is not murder.

It is state sanctioned homicide.

And there is no place for an anti-DP juror, on a capital case.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

42. I'm sorry, but premeditated murder is

pre-meditated murder. The excuse that the state is doing it so it's okay just doesn't hold water with me.

For those who claim to be Christians (I don't, and I make no assumptions about you) I don't see any wiggle room in the commandment that says "Thou shalt not kill." A Jewish friend of mine once said that the original Hebrew is even more direct. "No kill."

Anyway, while I understand while an anti death penalty juror probably ought not to be on such a jury, that does tend to stack things against the defendant.

I suppose, were I called to jury duty in such a case, I could lie about my beliefs and then create a hung jury, but that's a degree of dishonesty I don't think I could pull off. I'd say at the very beginning that I could not convict if it meant the murder by the state.

[RobinA]

47. I Am Not Sure

whether I could lie under those circumstances. I’ve thought about it, and I wouldn’t rule it out.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

59. Playing devil's advocate: So state imprisonment is kidnapping by your logic.

The excuse that the state is doing it so it is okay just doesn't hold water with you.



(NB: I am anti-death penalty. Death is so final.)

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

61. No. Not really the same thing.

Close, but no cigar.

There was an article in my local paper (the Santa Fe New Mexican) a few days ago about how carrying out the state sanctioned pre-meditated murder (which is the only way I will refer to it any more) has such a terrible affect on the people involved. Honestly, I wish that more people in the process would say, "I don't believe in killing, and I won't participate in this". Maybe then the murders would come to an end.

Alas, far too many people go along with the notion that it's simply part of the legal system.

[UpInArms]

63. I agree with you

And would add ..

You cannot prove that killing someone is wrong by killing someone else

[Liberal Veteran]

21. Honestly, I want to be on the jury of the tattoo artist who did this.

I'm all for self-expression and stuff, but that's the kind of ink that essentially ruins one's chances in life permanently.

[CatMor]

31. I agree about the tattoo artist willing to do that ...

it seems someone wanting that done to themselves have some mental problems. I feel the same way about plastic surgeons willing to accommodate people wanting extensive plastic surgery.

[Mike Nelson]

4. No problem for me...

… and I would say so during questioning. I'm not a tattoo person, but I know some and have no aversion to them at all...

[Little Star]

5. I'm glad I'm not in that jury pool.....

How could I ever stop myself from thinking idiot every time I looked at him?

[Ponietz]

6. Appearance and demeanor are always relevant.

The defendant (or other witnesses if he does not testify) is/are free to offer evidence to the jury about his appearance.

[zanana1]

66. Looking at him, I wondered...

Does facial hair and scalp hair grow through tattoos? Are the hair follicles compromised?

[stopdiggin]

8. they're lying (nt)

[lunasun]

9. Just look for all those people who claim they don't see color

[BigOleDummy]

11. I probably

couldn't serve on that jury either to be honest. I mean, in my opinion, someone who does THAT to their face has already given up on being a part of society. I'd be interested to know how long he has already served in prison and for what prior to this episode. If indeed he has served time before.


Full disclosure , I have 2 tattoos myself on my left arm. No "sleeve" just a Roman numeral 2 and an eclipse of the sun but they are at least (somewhat depending on your views) tasteful and more importantly "hideable".

[Runningdawg]

12. Nope sorry. Actions have consequences.

Prove to me they were all placed there against your will and we can talk.

[Codeine]

13. I don't see anything immediately offensive.

Two iron crosses on the neck, but they have fleur-de-lis symbols atop them, so it may have more to do with New Orleans than any kind of Nazi shit.

I’m okay with his look.

[milestogo]

14. Get some blind jurors.

[brooklynite]

15. Nothing that a nice suit wouldn't address...

[Dave Starsky]

16. Gully Foyle is my name.

And Terrra is my nation.
Deep space is my dwelling place,
And death's my destination.

I'm sorry. This guy just reminded me of a famous science-fiction book I once read, about a guy whose face was all tatted up. Except the guy in the book wasn't happy with that.

[BigOleDummy]

48. The Stars My Destination!

Great book by an outstanding Science Fiction author , Alfred Bester.

[Dave Starsky]

52. It is one of my favorite books of all time.

Alfred Bester was a terrific author. The Demolished Man is another classic of his.

But The Stars My Destination is the book I still keep thinking about every now and then, despite having read it decades ago.

[BigOleDummy]

54. Indeed!

How can you forget it once you've read it? I agree about The Demolished Man too, a classic in every sense of the word. Mr. Bester wasn't very prolific but man did he do it right! If memory serves me correctly The Stars My Destination won the very first Hugo award. He wrote a few short stories too and they are worth the time to seek out.

[Ilsa]

56. I keep wondering what his childhood was like,

if it caused it to want to look like that. He could have been a handsome man.

[Vinca]

17. Right off the bat he's guilty of being a fucking moron.

[Jake Stern]

18. I've declined to hire somebody with face tats

The store was smack dab in the middle of several retirement homes and elderly folks made a huge part of our customer base.

He was disappointed but the last thing I needed was an 80 year old lady stroking out when this dude walked up to assist her.

Appearances matter, folks.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

30. Yes, appearance absolutely matters.

Okay, I suppose I can understand getting a tattoo or two, but they ought to be reasonably easy to cover up. Especially if you ever seek gainful employment anywhere.

I know my age is showing. I'm 70. I am very glad neither of my sons has ever gotten a tattoo. Even though I would say it's their choice

[Jake Stern]

38. A close friend from college has quite a few tats on his hands/lower arms

but covers them with makeup when he's at work. He's a nurse and does it for much the same reason I mentioned: doesn't want to cause someone to be weirded out.

[LisaM]

36. While I don't LOVE tattoos, I can handle most of them. Not this.

I did get into it with a friend once (well, she got into it with me) because I thought it was inappropriate for a restaurant server to have tattoos with maggots coming out of coffins eating dead bodies. If that doesn't take your appetite away, then you don't have nearly enough imagination. She chastised me for hating tattoos. I just don't think pictures of corpse-eating maggots add much to my restaurant experience.

[Jake Stern]

39. That would be an "either you cover it up or you're out" kind of thing

Not appropriate. As I mentioned in another reply a friend from college has several tattoos on his hands/lower arms but covers them when he's at work.

[FiveGoodMen]

19. Yeah, good luck with that!

[Liberal Veteran]

20. What face? All I see are tattoos.

Just saying. Guess I'm out of the jury pool.

[msongs]

22. when someone shows you who they are...lol. nt

[blugbox]

23. Please ignore the fact that my client isn't afraid to commit to incredibly stupid actions

Especially since my client is accused of committing an incredibly stupid action.

[ripcord]

24. I don't think I could serve on that jury

I have no problems with tattoos but I would definitely assume the subject matter was part of who he is.

[TexasBushwhacker]

25. Geez. There's makeup that covers tattoos n/t

[LisaL]

27. My feelings exactly. How are you going to find 12 people not influenced by his tattoos and how

would you know that they are actually not influenced by his tattoos? Using make up to cover them up would be a lot easier.

[Skittles]

26. I can honestly say I would always judge based on the evidence

they need to PROVE their case beyond a reasonable doubt, REGARDLESS of what the person looks like

[bronxiteforever]

28. The demonic glowing red eyes could also be a problem n/t

[Lulu KC]

64. +1

[OnDoutside]

32. There really should be a law against allowing facial tattoos, to save

these idiots from themselves.

[mr_lebowski]

33. Aside from how 'fair' a juror I would be in such a case (I'd like to think I'd still be fair) ...

That's still an incredibly dumb thing to do yourself in today's society.

I'd almost respect it MORE if it was a bunch of swastika's and Klan symbols ... at least you were doing it for some tangible reason ... not just a bunch of random, meaningless crap, signifying nothing other than ... I'm a tough-guy, stay out of my way.

As an aside ... underneath the ink, he looks like a reasonably good-looking kid. Has good skin and features, strong jaw, blue eyes, etc.

It's a shame to see someone f*** themselves up in this way, IMHO.

[whistler162]

34. This is why we have the option

of trial by judge!

[3catwoman3]

37. "You never get a second chance to make a first impression."

Count me among those who could have a tough time not reacting negatively to this. Perhaps I should be nobler than that, but it seems I'm not.

[Dave Starsky]

43. Count me among them, as well.

But, then, I have never understood the basic philosophy behind having someone inscribe permanent pictures on your body--most of which no one else would ever understand or appreciate.

[3catwoman3]

49. I would not even tattoo my kids' names on my...

...body, even somewhere that couldn't be seen, let alone anything else, and certainly not anything as disfiguring as that.

A while back, there was a thread here on DU with links to very creative tattoos that had been designed by some very talented tattoo artist to disguise scars, birthmarks, etc. I was impressed with the imagination and talent of the artists.

I don't know if this is the same link, but check it out:

https://www.pinterest.com/drchrysopoulo/tattoos-to-hide-scars/?autologin=true&lp=true

[BlancheSplanchnik]

44. I was a tattoo artist, but I wouldn't have done *that*.

I refused a guy who wanted an Iron Cross and a talked to a girl who wanted a pot leaf in a visible spot.

[3catwoman3]

50. Did you ever do anything like those...

...in the link I posted just above?

Here it is to make it easy.

https://www.pinterest.com/drchrysopoulo/tattoos-to-hide-scars/?autologin=true&lp=true

[BlancheSplanchnik]

67. No I never did any scar coverups. Those are gorgeous!!!

I only worked at the shop a short time, it closed a year after new owner took over.

[spike jones]

51. A paper bag over his head would seem appropriate. n/t

[lapfog_1]

53. el diablo

/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/343?cb=20160620233843

[PatrickforO]

57. I don't think I would have gone with the full-face tattoo, and most particularly the

Satan motif.

I feel bad for him that he chose to do this to himself.

[Raine]

58. No way could I not be influenced

and not be biased, I can't unsee that!

[GReedDiamond]

60. Future post-prison job opportunity?...

...Walmart Zombie Greeter

[olddad65]

62. gonns be a challenge to find a jury of his peers

[zanana1]

65. If he hadn't killed two people, I'd feel sorry for him.

Being stupid enough to tattoo your face into oblivion is pathetic.

[hunter]

68. He'd be scary if he was wearing a red MAGA hat.

wikipedia

I report for jury service faithfully but I've never served on a jury, possibly because I always speak my mind.

[Yonnie3]

69. Locking after a review by Forum Hosts

Not important news of national interest.

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