Connor Betts, 24, ID'd as Dayton, Ohio Shooter

[Richard D]

Source: Daily Beast

The Dayton, Ohio, shooter is 24-year-old Connor Betts of Bellbrook, Ohio, law enforcement officials told CBS News, and a law enforcement official confirmed with The Daily Beast.

His sister, Megan, 21, and an unidentified male were found shot in a car near where the mass shooting occurred.

Initial reports by The Dayton Daily News, which purchased a background check of the suspect, indicate that Betts did not have a criminal record except for minor traffic violations. An initial sweep of his known social media profiles show no obvious link to any extremist ideolo

Read more: https://www.thedailybeast.com/connor-betts-24-idd-as-dayton-ohio-shooter

[Traildogbob]

1. Wrong

The obvious link to extremist ideology is a high velocity long gun that killed 9, injured dozens in 1 minute. That link is nation wide. If we refuse to take weapons of war away, then I propose that if you own them we confiscate your AM radio, TV and your bible. There is your obvious link to 250 mass shooting since January 1, 2019.

[ancianita]

2. +1 for the case of fear climate as toxic influence

[oldsoftie]

6. Apply that standard to every other crime & see where it gets you.

There are 100s of thousands, if not millions, of long guns out there that dont get used by a murderer & arent owned by extremists. By your logic we should also ban rap music, video games, paint ball, movies with violence, etc., because they too promote hate and killing.

[SansACause]

10. Who was ever killed by rap music?

This is about guns that can fire 45 rounds per minute.

[Traildogbob]

19. Self delete

I self deleted 2 long posts in response to "let's do nothing" gun humper. May as well talk to my big toe. Until they have a loved one slaughtered by a white wing tRumpster, it is a huge waste of time. Same shit, rap music, video games, mental illness. I will agree to one point, it is not as much the guns as it is white wing hate radio, trump and warped religion. But a rapid killing machine in the hands of those will be the end of this country, if we do nothing. Going hiking with my black, lesbian liberal, love everybody Labrador. Pray I don't get shot. Oh fuck, prayers ain't gettin nothin done. I stay off trail in very rugged strenuous forests. Most tRumpers can't get there. Their bellies and long guns would get entangled in the rhododendron thickets. Peace all, stay safe my DU family.

[DeminPennswoods]

3. Betts' sister was shot at the scene. She is one of the 9 victims

The reports about her boyfriend also being killed is unconfirmed.

[dawg day]

29. So-- he went there to shoot because his sister was there?

She was partying with people (and maybe boyfriend) so he shot her and everyone around her?

It's really puzzling. The El Paso shooter was just a vicious QAnon type killer, apparently, but this about this killer going to where his sister was out having fun... I guess at some point the family, what's left of it, will explain as much as can be explained.

[DeminPennswoods]

34. Apparently she was one of the first few victims

The Dayton police chief said she wasn't the first, but one of the early victims. It seems now that whoever the 2nd guy was, he might not have been her boyfriend, but a friend of the shooter. It's really unclear now how this person is connected to the shooter and his sister.

The shooter, his sister and this other guy all drove there in the same car, but he seperated from the other two at some point before the shooter began firing.

[billh58]

4. The NRA has made

the use of a gun to settle real or imagined personal issues the norm (see stand-your-ground laws and their use). The constant message of the need for a gun for "personal protection" reinforces that norm and perpetuates the use of violence as a problem-solving mechanism.

We need to regulate who, and under what circumstances, gun ownership and use is reasonable and warranted. Thorough background checks, and interviews with neighbors and associates are a good starting point. Many jobs require these steps, so why not something as consequential as purchasing a deadly weapon?

The common NRA right-wing response to these proposed requirements is: "my Second Amendment constitutional rights cannot be infringed!" No "right" is absolute, and all are subject to lawful regulation, and even the real military (militia) recognizes that need.

[oldsoftie]

7. What gets me is that many NRA members actually support laws the NRA blocks.

THEY need to start putting the pressure on the NRA.

[Kaleva]

13. What gun laws do many NRA members support?

"The only legitimate poll of NRA members ever done was a national scientific survey commissioned by NRA. It surveyed 1,000 randomly-selected NRA members across the country and found that NRA members are united on today’s issues.

92 percent oppose banning the sale of firearms between private citizens.
92 percent oppose background checks on the sale of firearms between private citizens.
89 percent oppose banning so-called “assault weapons.”
93 percent oppose gun registration.
91 percent SUPPORT laws to keep guns out of the hands of people with mental illnesses."

http://blog.joehuffman.org/2018/07/04/poll-of-nra-members-on-gun-control/

[IronLionZion]

45. Do you have evidence of this?

[oldsoftie]

48. Yes, of course. There are many stories & polls out there showing similar results.

https://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2018/feb/27/tim-ryan/after-parkland-shooting-ohio-congressman-said-70-8/

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/377455-poll-most-nra-members-support-comprehensive-background-checks

Depending on the suggested law, but even the registry is supported by a number of NRA members

[Jedi Guy]

14. Personally, I think interviews with associates and neighbors is a bridge too far.

There's too much room there for personal animus and subjectivity, particularly with neighbors. I imagine quite a few people here on DU would, if approached for an interview because a right-wing neighbor was looking to buy a gun, do everything they could to torpedo that process. Or what if my neighbor just doesn't like me as a result of a clash of personalities? Or because they're salty that I don't mow my lawn as much as they think I should? The opinions of my neighbors and associates should have no bearing on whether or not I can exert a Constitutional right.

Thorough background checks, on the other hand, are objective and consider only the facts. There's no opinion shading the information in a background check. The NICS database isn't going to say bad things about me because it doesn't like me or my politics.

[billh58]

17. Many companies and governments

use neighbor and associate interviews to vet job applicants. I have been through a few, and no one (to my knowledge) has ever bad-mouthed me for personal reasons.

I admit that it could happen, but the interviewers are normally trained to spot "grudge" information, especially if it only comes from one individual. I'm talking about uncovering excessive alcohol or drug use, abuse of family members, aggressive behavior -- things that a regular background check would not reveal.

[dawg day]

31. A neighbor of mine applied for a job with a government contractor-- not even defense-

And everyone on our street was interviewed by the background checkers. (We all liked her and said good things.)

Her job was processing some minor reports for a minor agency, not even in the DC area. We couldn't believe they'd go to that much trouble.
But that's too over-the-top for someone who wants to buy an assault rifle? I don't think so.

[Jedi Guy]

36. I recognize that, and have been through it myself when I worked for a police department.

The difference here is that getting this or that job is not a Constitutional right. To me, adding that sort of thing is a bridge too far because it's incredibly subjective. How much alcohol use is "excessive"? If I have a couple of beers with dinner every night, is that too much? What kind of drug use is "excessive"? If I smoke a joint every couple days, is that too much? Who gets to define what is or isn't excessive? Any allegations of abuse or aggressive behavior, unless backed up by evidence, are just that: allegations.

[marble falls]

5. At the very least he's got to be an Incel.

[lunasun]

28. At the least . Bullied women in HS see my post #27 for link

[DeminPennswoods]

8. At the 4PM presser, the Dayton Police Chief said

Betts, his sister and the boyfriend all went to the area together in the same car, but they seperated at some point. The Chief also said the sister wasn't the first victim, but one of the next several. There can't be any doubt, Connor Betts knew he was killing his sister.

With this being a big dining and entertainment area, I'm sure there are cameras everywhere and Betts' movements will be traced from the time he got out of the car until he started shooting. It will take at least a few days to figure out Betts' movements and his motive.

The Chief also said Betts was engaged and killed within 30 seconds. The number dead and wounded are testiment to how much damage can be done by an assault weapon in a very short time.

[yardwork]

9. That shows the kind of weaponry he had. Killed 9 in less than a minute.

Imagine a six minute response.

[SansACause]

11. 45 rounds per minute

That's the kind of firepower any moron can have. And the velocity of the rounds ensures one shot, one kill. That's what they were designed to do.

[Jedi Guy]

15. "And the velocity of the rounds ensures one shot, one kill."

That's clearly nonsense, given that there were survivors of this incident who were injured. And that's been the case with every other mass shooting where these types of weapons were used.

[DeminPennswoods]

20. Depends on the exact ammo, but a round

from an assault weapon can do a lot of damage. Also, some of the injured may not have been from gunshot, they could have been hurt in/by the fleeing crowd.

[Jedi Guy]

37. The point is that getting shot by an AR-15 isn't "one shot, one kill."

Plenty of people have survived being shot by an AR-15. That's not to say that it's okay that they got shot. It isn't okay. But AR-15s aren't magical death rays.

[SansACause]

44. Actually, they are.

A head or torso wound is pretty much instant death. The velocity of the round disintegrates tissue upon entry. You can take the victim to a hospital, but when their internal organs have been converted to hamburger, there's not much a surgeon can do. The survivors most likely had peripheral wounds or were injured while trying to flee. These guns are designed to kill as many people as possible in as short a time as possible, and they do a good job at that.

[Jedi Guy]

46. Actually, they aren't.

Someone on this thread posted an article about a Parkland survivor who was shot five times, with two of those bullets striking him in the torso. He took two to the torso and lived. So no, a shot to the torso isn't "pretty much instant death." Again, AR-15s and similar weapons are not magical death rays. Talking about them as if they are comes across as uninformed and hyperbolic.

[MyOwnPeace]

35. Oh, thanks, Jedi Guy

I feel so much better now knowing that I stand a better chance of just being injured rather than killed because we allow anyone to buy an assault weapon meant for the destruction of many.

[Jedi Guy]

38. Just pointing out that AR-15s and equivalent weapons aren't magical death rays.

They're not "one shot, one kill." They're definitely dangerous and they're clearly in the hands of people who shouldn't have them, which is something that needs to be dealt with. Unfortunately, thanks to the NRA and the GOP, it's not being dealt with because to them, the bodies full of holes are "the price of freedom."

[DeminPennswoods]

39. A Parkland survivor

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/final-parkland-shooting-survivior-released-from-hospital_n_5ac4db02e4b0ac473edc20fa

[Jedi Guy]

40. He was shot five times and survived. He was terribly injured, yes, but he lived.

If anything, your example is evidence supporting my argument. Once again, I'm not arguing that these weapons aren't dangerous. They clearly are. But "one shot, one kill" is simply nonsense. It's certainly possible, depending on where the bullet strikes, but that's true of any firearm, not just the AR-15 and its different versions.

You seem to be arguing as if I said these weapons weren't dangerous, which I obviously never said. Kindly stop hitting the straw man.

[Rollo]

41. As I understand it, the AR-15 is the civilian version of a military automatic rifle...

And the more or less current thinking in the military is that it's better to wound the enemy than kill him. That way you take two people off the battlefield - the wounded soldier and the medic needed to care for him. So smaller rounds are used, like the .223 caliber used by Betts.

That said, much depends on the caliber and load. Apparently AR-15's can have different barrels and chamber and be set up to accommodate different rounds, which may do more bodily damage than the .223.

[oldsoftie]

49. The most often enemy of today dont bother to pick up their wounded.

We treat more of their wounded than they do.

[DeminPennswoods]

42. My point is, it's not some walk in the park to survive

getting hit by assault weapon ammo.

[Jedi Guy]

43. I never said that it was. I simply pointed out that AR-15 bullets aren't instantly lethal. N/T

[LanternWaste]

47. Much as no else one called them 'magical death rays..."

[Jedi Guy]

50. What, no shrugging emoji today? That's a shame.

I didn't allege that anyone else asserted that they were magical death rays. Someone else did assert that AR-15s were "one shot, one kill" which is what I contested. I used that turn of phrase to make a point. But you knew that, of course.

[pnwmom]

18. It's so strange that they all went together, with him carrying that gun, and its magazines,

and dressed in body armor -- and yet she apparently wasn't a co-conspirator, because she was a victim.

[DeminPennswoods]

21. The Chief did not say he was dressed in body armor

or that the assault weapon was visible on the drive over. He didn't even say who was driving. He could well have had his stuff in the trunk or a duffle bag or hidden somewhere in the area. Betts did work in a restaurant and presumably would have an idea where to hide something if that's what he wanted to do. That's why the cops will want to get all the security camera footage to see when and what he did after he seperated from his sister and her companion.

[pnwmom]

22. Okay, that makes sense. Thanks. n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. It's possible the body armor and gun were in the trunk

(it was their parents' car, apparently). He might have dropped them off, saying "I'll park", and then put on the armor. Or gone back home to do that - the timing still seems unclear. I also note some reports say "a male companion", not "boyfriend".

[LisaL]

25. He had on long sleeved dark hoodie.

I don't think one could tell he was wearing body armor under the hoodie. So he could have put it on, put the hoodie on top, and nobody would know he had on body armor.

[dawg day]

32. It was probably 85 degrees last night.

He would have stood out, but apparently there wasn't any time for anyone to figure out what was going on.

[LisaL]

33. I've seen people wearing coats in the summer and little shorts in winter.

I don't think anybody would pay attention to a hoodie, even if it was warm out.

[LisaL]

24. He had on a hoodie.

Potentially body armor wasn't visible. I doubt he took time to change. Gun could have been hidden in the trunk of the car.

[mucifer]

26. so still no known motive

[Grasswire2]

30. I've seen speculation. Most of the victims were POC.

But good idea to wait until we hear more.

[lunasun]

27. Former high school classmates described him as a misogynistic bully . Made hit list in HS

Killed his sister
Her companion is unnamed
Authorities have now named the 9 deceased victims. In addition to Megan Betts, they are Lois Oglesby, black female, 27; Saeed Saleh, 38, black male; Logan Turner, white male, 30; Nicholas P. Cumer, white male, 25; Thomas J. McNichols, black male, 25; Beatrice N. Warren-Curtis, black female, 36; Monica E. Brickhouse, black female, 39; and Derrick R. Fudge, black male, 57. You can read tributes to the victims here. Heavy has included the victims’ race because that is how the police gave the information out

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts/

Former high school classmates described him as a misogynistic bully. “I went to high school with the shooter. He made a hit list of fellow students and was arrested. Somehow he was still able to legally purchase a gun, which he used to kill at least 9 people. Something needs to be done,” wrote one

[clementine613]

51. How long are we going to allow these right-wing Rethugs to kill people?

Seriously... sometimes I think we need to find a way to contain these Rethuglicans proactively.

[DeminPennswoods]

52. Seems Betts just wanted to kill people

for no other reason than to kill them.

[clementine613]

53. Which is something only a soulless Rethug would do.

[DeminPennswoods]

54. Killing was buried somewhere deep in his nature

I doubt anyone will ever know what made it come out in the way it did.

[clementine613]

55. Only Rethugs have that "buried somewhere deep in their nature"

The rest of us, the ones with souls, wouldn't dream of shooting up innocent people.