Two Jeffrey Epstein accusers watch him plead not guilty, be ordered held without bail in kid sex tri

[ancianita]

Source: CNBC

Complete title:

"Two Jeffrey Epstein accusers watch him plead not guilty, be ordered held without bail in kid sex traffic case"

Looking haggard with his hair mussed, the 66-year-year-old Epstein entered his plea in Manhattan federal court, where he was clad in a blue jumpsuit, a brown undershirt and bright orange sneakers. Two of his accusers were in the courtroom, CNBC has confirmed.

He will be detained in jail until at least the detention hearing on July 15, where prosecutors are expected to continue their argument that Epstein should be detained without bail pending trial.

Federal agents allegedly found in a locked safe in his Manhattan mansion “a vast trove of lewd photographs” of young-looking women or girls in his Manhattan mansion, as well as compact discs with hand-written labels such as ” ‘Young [Name] + [Name],’ ‘Misc nudes 1,’ and ‘Girl pics nudes,’ ” according to prosecutors.

In the current case, Epstein is charged with one count of sex trafficking of minors and one count of conspiracy to engage in sex trafficking of minors. He faces up to 45 years in prison if convicted of the charges.

Read more: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/08/jeffrey-epstein-pleads-not-guilty-in-child-sex-trafficking-case.html

---

Hallelujah!

Justice. Finally.

[titaniumsalute]

1. It is sad it is only 45 years.

Seems like it should be a few hundred. Although at 66 he would die in prison if he were say 30 years old he could still see the light of day someday. I think child trafficking, child porn, child rape, etc. should be an automatic life in prison no matter what.

Also, I wonder if he could plead down while giving up a larger conspiracy of participants and clients.

[ancianita]

5. It would be, no thanks to Acosta and that bullshit Florida judge.

[defacto7]

16. But that's just for one charge of trafficking and one of conspiracy.

How many more will surface?

[mr_lebowski]

29. If these victims were 'children', legally ... it WOULD be far more than 45 years proposed here

There's a reason the term 'minor' is being used in these charges, and that is because the youngest is 14. While we colloquially call 14-16 year old's 'children', and in almost any relevant sense they certainly ARE ... but for the purposes of the relevant laws, they are technically not.

For example, in NY State law, when it comes to sex offense laws, 'children' are people 12 and under. I'm sure it varies somewhat from state to state, but they all make a distinction along these lines.

I don't make the rules ... I'm just explaining ...

[Initech]

2. Maybe he and Harvey Weinstein can share a cell together.

And you can throw Kevin Spacey in there while you're at it.

[fierywoman]

10. I'm hoping for a cellmate for him who's very big, young, strong and horny.

[PSPS]

24. Why those particular characteristics? Why the "horny?" Please be specific. Thanks!

[Lithos]

51. I am hoping that the population finds him offensive enough

He has to remain in solitary for the entirety of his 45 years - alone in a room with only an hour each day to walk alone. For his own protection, of course.

[fierywoman]

54. That would be an equally positive outcome!

[mr_lebowski]

30. Low blow, man ... Spacey's offenses are nowhere NEAR the severity of Weinsteins

Let alone Epstein's.

Not saying Spacey is above reproach by any means, but ... booo ...

[Initech]

35. Yeah true you can't lump Spacey in with those monsters.

He's in a different category. What he did was horrible in his own right but pales in comparison to what Weinstein and Epstein did.

[donkeypoofed]

3. Where are all the Possession of Child Porn charges?!

Those will finish him off (or his fellow prisoners will , they hate "skinners" aka child molesters). Jeffy boy is in for a very hard time. He is going to HATE his life from here on out.

Way to go SDNY!!!

[Berlin Expat]

7. Kiddie porn

charges - possession (and most likely production) - will probably be added later as prosecutors sift through the seized images/data.

[mr_lebowski]

32. My guess would be that their 'collaborative' value in terms of 'putting the witnesses where they say

they were' ... is likely to cause a lot more problems for Epstein than the 'porn possession' charges.

I mean, 'f*** it, throw the book at him!' ... of course ... but the authorities will probably nail him for life w/o parole w/o even having to charge him with possession of photos of nude teens.

[Sherman A1]

13. One would think that there are possible state charges to come as well

depending upon the progress or lack of same in the Federal Case.

[mr_lebowski]

31. Gonna have to take away his money first I'm afraid ...

Prisoners tend to be pretty pragmatic. They may 'hate him' as you say, but as long as everyone knows he's a billionaire and in a position to help people with their cases/appeals (or down at the commissary) ... he will quickly acquire a band of supporters, I'd wager. Money comes before principles in the slam.

I know cause of all my hard time ... lol ... well, watching shows about Prison ...

[Leghorn21]

4. You think you look "haggard" NOW, Epstein? HA HA yeah, you ain't seen nuthin yet

JUSTICE

FINALLY

[ancianita]

6. I'm pissed that this no-bail judgment is not permanent, but maybe more time's given to stop

any basis for an appeal.

Still. This charge is so ironclad that further bail arguments shouldn't be allowed.

[Stonepounder]

8. Unfortunately this is a Federal Case

and I have no doubt that some asshole currently residing in DC will pardon his buddy.

[ancianita]

9. Probably. But with that pardon is admission of guilt. The evidence against the pardoner still stands

[leftieNanner]

12. And that evidence will open the flood gates

of law suits from his victims. Nice pile of money you have, Jeffie. Too bad if you lose it ALL!

[bluescribbler]

11. Justice will have to wait

Until he is convicted and sentenced. Until then,, it is a waiting game.

[ancianita]

14. Yep. But this looks as close to it as we've seen yet.

[bucolic_frolic]

15. In the US Attorney Berman's press conference

he repeatedly said they were standing up for the victims, but didn't mention the rest of society explicitly, though one of his cohorts implied that aspect of the case. This is a broad problem he said.

Also, NO ONE asked if any foreign governments were also pursuing charges. Relevant because the guy is out of the US most of the time. No one asked and he didn't say how they knew he was entering the US, or how long these charges were held pending his arrival.

So I'm wondering if we are simply to accept this narrow window. He did say he couldn't comment on others connected to the case, but didn't mention further investigations either.

It's like they were doing this, but largely because investigative journalism revealed the facts, and otherwise it might not have happened.

[ancianita]

22. He's listed as a sex criminal on a Virgin Island website. I saw a report and shot of the page.

Could be fake, cuz Google images, but I don't think so.

So he's been paid attention abroad, I'm pretty sure.

EDIT: OOPS. My bad. He was listed as a sexual offender online in Florida.

[dawg day]

27. "He might be an active offender."

"He is still in possession of child pornography."

That was Frank Figliuzzi on Nicole Wallace-- another reason for NO BAIL.

[defacto7]

17. But who's been letting him get away with this all these years? How?

I think the list will be long and ugly... very long.

[ancianita]

18. Probably his wealth and connections. Money is freedom to elites. That's how they stay beyond the law

Here are some people who've been in his inner circles.

Scroll down the page 'til you see the interactive buttons. Choose a group, click on a face in that group and a pop-up will tell you their name and relationship.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article221897990.html

[LiberalArkie]

52. See how many match with this.

https://vimeo.com/243335623

[ancianita]

53. I've only seen Trump connected to Epstein. None of the others. Do you know something we don't?

[LiberalArkie]

56. Most of it is from news articles at various. You can wiki just about all the names and come up with

the connections

[ancianita]

57. I do that so much already that I would understand your implication. Just link what I've missed.

Can't you bother with that? I've read so much about Wray's history with the FBI that I know he does not belong on this chart.

Prove me wrong. Confidence in the FBI is what you're impuning here.

[JudyM]

19. It's like the priests who looked the other way. Interesting parallels and divergences. All monsters.

[WhiteTara]

20. then they found the pics and cds

that's a life sentence right there.

[ancianita]

21. Yep. Hung by his own evidential petard.

[mr_lebowski]

33. Kinda depends what's on them, frankly ...

If there's pics of him having sex with a 14 year old, then for sure, his ass is grass.

If they're 'just' a bunch of 'candid' solo photos of teens, then the fact that they'll back the witnesses accounts up in terms having 'been there on X day' would probably turn out to be bigger problem for him than what's actually in the pics.

[WhiteTara]

36. Possessing child porn

is a crime, ask George Nader about that, he's in jail waiting trial.

[mr_lebowski]

37. Having a nekkid pic of a 16 year old is not as illegal as screwing one

That's my point.

[WhiteTara]

38. ask George Nader about that

many of those children weren't even 16 btw

[mr_lebowski]

39. Reports say 'as young as 14' of his victims, but we don't know he had a pic of a 14 y.o.

And possessing pics of teens posing in 'suggestive poses', which is what I've read them elsewhere described as ... is NOT nearly as illegal as actually screwing teens. Nor should it be.

Hell I have pics of my girlfriends at 15-17 in suggestive poses as well ... scantily-clad at the beach, or dressed up in Rocky Horror attire. I was 16-17 when I took them. Do I possess 'child porn'? I don't think so.

We don't know what these pics are yet, but we do know other, much more serious shit he did with these girls. Their value as collaborative evidence for more serious crimes MAY turn out to be much more important, DEPENDING on what they show.

[WhiteTara]

41. I'm so tempted to ask

do you keep Hustler under the mattress still? You were the same age, you had a consensual relationship. THese girls were sex slaves. They weren't there to have "fun" they were there to be used like toilet tissue or some object.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I really think you need to do some deep search why you think a man 40 years older than the victim should possess these kinds of pictures of 100s or 1000s of poses.

Again, I think empathy is needed. That means to see this through the eyes of others rather than your own experiences.

[mr_lebowski]

42. I'm not saying he 'should' have them, I'm saying they may have more prosecutorial value

as evidence of the girls 'being where they were, when they said they were' ... when more serious crimes than 'getting their picture taken' ... were occurring.

It's more illegal to have sex with a 16 year old than to take a 'suggestive picture' of her.

I'm more interested in taking him down for what I view as the far more serious crime.

Are we clear?

[LanternWaste]

43. The one doesn't deny the other.

"I'm more interested in taking him down for what I view as the far more serious crime. "


The one doesn't deny the prosecution of other, regardless of the irrelevancies of what you're interested in.

Are you clear?

[mr_lebowski]

45. Fair enough, but, depending on what's IN THEM, they may not be bothering with charges

If they're not engaged in sex acts, and they're 15-ish, not 8 years old, the pics in and of themselves MIGHT not be 'illegal enough' that it's worth bothering with ... esp. when he was SCREWING THEM, and that's what they want to bust him on.

And if he never did anything with them but keep them for himself, you can't bust him with the far more serious crimes of like commercial production/distribution/profiting from underage porn.

IOW, the pictures might be nowhere near 'a life sentence right there' ... which is what I responded to originally ... but they could definitely have value of nailing him for crimes that ARE 'a life sentence'.

I'm sure the prosecutors will leverage their existence against him and threaten to charge him as part of the plea deal. But I'd be pretty damn disappointed if all he goes down for is 'possession of underage photos', wouldn't you?

[ancianita]

50. No judge would believe that he spent all that money on all those girls just to look at them.

Nah.

[honest.abe]

34. Yep, if nothing else that will take him down.

Child porn/exploitation charges are severe.

[Skittles]

23. what a sick fuck he is

I hope everyone participating with him and enabling his sick ass goes down too

[bluestarone]

25. Absolutely should be NO PARDON for this type charge!

NO FUCKING PARDONS here!

[Lithos]

55. For Epstein to accept a Pardon

would mean he would be admitting guilt to many counts of Statutory Rape of a minor - typically a State Felony. New York State would welcome this admission.

L-

[dawg day]

26. What jail is he in?

It's probably a federal lockup. But even that will be scary for him. I hope he suffers.

[ancianita]

28. Manhattan Correctional Center until his final bail hearing on July 15.

Of course he'll suffer. But he'll never suffer enough for all the misery and pain he's caused across this and other countries.

[EleanorR]

40. Letting him go free all those years ago allowed him to sexually abuse more children

Acosta and anyone else involved in sentencing him to only 13 months, served in a private wing of a Palm Beach jail, allowed to leave 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, should be put in prison too.

The sweetheart deal was a travesty, but the fact that it allowed Epstein to abuse more children's is an outrage.

[ancianita]

44. The judge allowed this total travesty of justice, too. JE will lose much of his wealth in the civil

suits to follow and payouts to defenders.

And the globally bored wealthy will sit up and take note about how to manage evidence of their predations. They might find that fewer law firms will cover for them.

Islands and any real estate in the U.S. won't likely keep them private or safe, either.

Lately, I'm kinda liking the upside, and beginning to see the wisdom of how this global surveillance power can be used against those who think their wealth is their armor and safe haven against the Law.

[dalton99a]

48. +1. Acosta also allowed him to hire his own security detail while in prison.

[Buckeyeblue]

46. This is leverage for a plea bargain if he will testify against others

One doesn't sex traffick for his own pleasure. This is about him providing underage girls to other men. The prosecutors want to know who. This will be a story to watch.

[ancianita]

47. I thought a "not guilty" plea means you tell prosecutors nothing, right?

[Buckeyeblue]

49. Everyone starts out with not guilty

Then the negotiations begin. He'll have the best lawyers available. The prosecution will have to share evidence. Then the talks start. Does he want what amounts to a life sentence? Or 5 years? The prosecution is putting on early pressure by asking that he be held with no bail. Flight risk? Or suicide risk?

As long as they have the evidence, this gets interesting. Poor evidence and his defense team will be pushing for a quick trial.