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brooklynite

(93,873 posts)
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 08:30 AM Feb 2019

Christian tax preparer turns away lesbian couple on religious ground

Source: Washington Post

For four years, Bailey Brazzel says, she had employed the same tax preparer, Nancy Fivecoate of Carter Tax Service in Russiaville, Ind. Fivecoate prepared the taxes without issue each time — until this year, when Brazzel brought her new wife, Samantha.

Fivecoate declined to serve the couple, citing her religious beliefs.

This was the first year the Brazzels, who wed in July, were filing jointly as a married couple. According to Samantha, Fivecoate explained that she believed marriage was between a man and a woman and that she would therefore not be able to prepare their taxes.

The incident, on Feb. 12, left the Brazzels feeling “shocked, upset, and kind of hurt,” Samantha told The Washington Post. “Our marriage is just as legal and valid as anybody else’s.” She and her wife left the business and posted their story in a local Facebook group to warn other same-sex couples. Samantha said the post was removed by the group’s moderators but was eventually picked up by local media.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/02/21/christian-accountant-refuses-prepare-lesbian-couples-taxes-religious-grounds/?utm_term=.6e4cbea41a5d

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Christian tax preparer turns away lesbian couple on religious ground (Original Post) brooklynite Feb 2019 OP
heeeeeey i thought christians were supposed to play nice..... samnsara Feb 2019 #1
These stories baffle me PJMcK Feb 2019 #2
Well said. NT SWBTATTReg Feb 2019 #9
What kind of religion is that? No one is asking her to marry another women. She isn't being asked allgood33 Feb 2019 #3
I believe D_Master81 Feb 2019 #4
Please!!! atreides1 Feb 2019 #6
Outsplaining. Igel Feb 2019 #15
Does Fivecoate turn away remarried folks whose first spouse is still living? keithbvadu2 Feb 2019 #5
A normal and decent human being, not contaminated by justhanginon Feb 2019 #7
does he turn away azureblue Feb 2019 #8
Leave the Patronage of Local Small Business CDerekGo Feb 2019 #10
The problem is that, when you live in small town America... brooklynite Feb 2019 #12
or if there is they are also "christians" DBoon Feb 2019 #14
And I would be in the wrong... jmowreader Feb 2019 #11
Nancy Fivecoate is a bigot. A un-American pos. rockfordfile Feb 2019 #13
Tax preparer? Isn't that a "Render unto Caesar" business? NotASurfer Feb 2019 #16

PJMcK

(21,921 posts)
2. These stories baffle me
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 08:41 AM
Feb 2019

As an independent businessman, I cannot imagine turning away business because of a client's personal life. It's none of my business and I want to stay in business. After all, as long as it's legitimate, money is money and work is work.

At the same time, if a service provider I had worked with for years questioned anything about my personal life, I'd tell them to shove it and take my business elsewhere. I wouldn't feel "shocked, upset and kind of hurt." I'd simply be pissed. I kind of doubt that the Carterville Tax Service is the only game in town.

Ms. Brazzel is absolutely and unequivocally correct that her marriage is valid. She and her spouse can make as much noise as they want but I wouldn't trust someone with my taxes and finances who questioned my life, choices and partner(s).

Fivecoate's "religious beliefs" are bullshit and if she brings them into her business, I'd want nothing to do with her.

 

allgood33

(1,584 posts)
3. What kind of religion is that? No one is asking her to marry another women. She isn't being asked
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 08:51 AM
Feb 2019

to engage in same sex. She's being asked to do her job. WTF? Are these people not going to ride Uber with a gay driver, not eat a restaurant with a gay chef, no take a cruise with a gay Captain, note breathe the air in a closed room because someone in the room might be gay? Will she not accept her pay check because it comes from a payroll system that has been hires gay workers?



D_Master81

(1,822 posts)
4. I believe
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 09:15 AM
Feb 2019

As a Christian that there are some that take it upon themselves to fight back against the move of society to the left and even though these things dont really affect their religion, they feel like they have to take a stand. Something like this is completely ridiculous, as was the pizza shop girl down the road from me that said she wouldnt cater a gay wedding a few years ago. At least though with a wedding I get where you could convince yourself that you're participating in something that you believe is wrong. I wouldnt object and dont care, but I can see it. But this is preparing a tax return. At this point you're saying you wont serve a gay person at anything. If you were a waitress you wouldn't serve them dinner b/c it's "against you religion". There are many in Christianity that like to point out the sin and how it goes against their religion. Forgetting that Jesus would point out the sin in others yet didnt cast them aside.

atreides1

(16,046 posts)
6. Please!!!
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 09:46 AM
Feb 2019

People like her are picking and choosing what is "against their religion", I have yet to see a "Christian" refuse service to someone who is wearing clothing made of two different materials(Leviticus 19:19)!

I wonder how often she or someone in her family eats anything that mixes meat and dairy (Exodus 23:19), like a cheese burger?

Jesus endorsed Mosaic Law in Matthew 5:18, where he says, "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

In reality she isn't making a stand, she's a bigot, and that isn't something that anyone wants to be called! And if I recall, she says that she still provides services for single gay customers, which makes her a hypocrite as well!!!


Roman 12 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

Igel

(35,197 posts)
15. Outsplaining.
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 08:28 PM
Feb 2019

It's telling somebody what they *really* believe, and then condemning them for not living up to it.

It's like all the environmentalists who eat food--contrary to their deepest beliefs that they want to foist on everybody else--brought in using fossil fuels. Or who use things produced--like metal objects--with fossil fuels. Yeah, it's not convincing, but why not listen to somebody who wrests another's views and then tries to impose them on the people whose views were wrested?

Listened, reluctantly, to somebody rail against a vegetarian because he ate cheese. He responded that's not what he thought was important, and ignored the rantings of a perfervid outsplainer. The vegetarian felt so much superior and self-righteous (he always did, he was basically a prick) that he smiled lamely at the outsplainer. Who, likewise, felt superior and self-righteous (not wanting the same label for both, let's call him what he was, a dick).


In other words, the point is that somebody believes what s/he believes. Telling them that they're hypocritical for not doing what they don't think is part of their faith isn't appropriate. She similarly probably isn't Sabbath observing, and almost certainly thinks of "OMG" as a decent thing to say.

BTW, I still observe the dietary restrictions. But not mixing milk and dairy isn't in the Mosaic law. It's in the Talmud, an exposition of that bit of Leviticus, made more onerous by the desire to build a fence around the Torah. If you never eat red meat and milk there's no chance of eating a calf boiled in its mother's milk; if you have separate plates for meat and dairy, there's no chance that the smallest particle of the possible meat that's somehow heated to boiling with its mothers milk could be consumed.

As for "two different materials," the options were limited. I don't wear wool + linen because, to be honest, I don't think I own anything made of linen and wool in Houston seems like a waste of sheep fur. I'd consider polyester and possibly cotton to be the fiber equivalent of parve. It's not wool; it's not linen. It's not in the system. (I could see the argument that cotton's like linen, so wool and cotton shouldn't be mixed. But it's not one that I particularly think is overwhelming and therefore would probably ignore it.)

keithbvadu2

(36,369 posts)
5. Does Fivecoate turn away remarried folks whose first spouse is still living?
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 09:23 AM
Feb 2019

Does Fivecoate turn away remarried folks whose first spouse is still living?

Jesus had a lot to say about divorce and adultery of people remarried.

justhanginon

(3,287 posts)
7. A normal and decent human being, not contaminated by
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 10:07 AM
Feb 2019

religious orthodoxy, would have congratulated them on their marriage, wished them well and then done their taxes as she had done in the past. End of story.

azureblue

(2,131 posts)
8. does he turn away
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 10:34 AM
Feb 2019

people who eat bacon? People who eat lobster? People who wear glasses to church? Trim their beards? Of course not. All of these are forbidden in Leviticus. But, no, he cherry picks verses to suit his bigotry. Here's the bottom line - you can claim religious beliefs, but you can't ignore ones that you consider to be "outdated" or inconvenient. It's all or zero. This is the hole in the religion claim. It's like I can't ignore certain traffic laws I don't like. Or claim to be a vegetarian and eat steak just on Saturday.

CDerekGo

(507 posts)
10. Leave the Patronage of Local Small Business
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 10:53 AM
Feb 2019

When you're turned away by a Small Business, because of their 'beliefs', go somewhere else. Or, do what I do, use a computer based program. Hate to say it folks, but if I'm going to be turned away for one reason or another, especially by a local small business, who counts on MY DOLLARS to survive, and they want to discriminate. Well, that's enough for me to reconsider patronizing them, and other small businesses who are in agreement with this racist. When they are no longer able to operate as a business, maybe they'll realize what it means to be racist.

brooklynite

(93,873 posts)
12. The problem is that, when you live in small town America...
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 01:17 PM
Feb 2019

...there may not be another CPA/bakery/florist available.

jmowreader

(50,453 posts)
11. And I would be in the wrong...
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 12:24 PM
Feb 2019

....if I told the tax preparer, “I am sorry, Mrs. Fivecoate, but I do not print for people who discriminate against others. Take your order of business cards elsewhere.”

Were I Bailey Brazzel, I would go to a tax preparer that doesn’t discriminate, get my taxes done, then return to the bigoted place and show them the invoice.

If Bailey Brazzel was me, she would have just done her own taxes and we wouldn’t be hearing about this. It’s not that hard.

NotASurfer

(2,138 posts)
16. Tax preparer? Isn't that a "Render unto Caesar" business?
Thu Feb 21, 2019, 10:08 PM
Feb 2019

If only they had a Christian tax prepar... oh, never mind, I think they must be using one of the super-revised versions. King Trumpislas version or something. Or the redacted edition with the moral bits removed, just the stuff about incest and Old Testament wars of annihilation

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