Pelosi: impeachment push 'a gift' to GOP
Source: The Hill
BY MIKE LILLIS - 04/26/18 12:21 PM EDT
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) warned Thursday that Democratic efforts to impeach President Trump will hurt the partys chances in Novembers midterms, making her sternest public rebuke of the liberals in her own caucus who are pushing to oust the president.
I dont think we should be talking about impeachment. Ive been very clear right from the start, Pelosi said during a press briefing in the Capitol.
On the political side I think its a gift to the Republicans, she added. We want to talk about what theyre doing to undermine working families in our country and what we are doing to increase their payrolls and lower their costs.
The comments come as an increasing number of embattled Republicans are leaning on the threat of impeachment to lend them an advantage in tight races around the country.
Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/house/385015-pelosi-impeachment-push-a-gift-to-gop
Zorro
(15,756 posts)That's what is driving the "Blue Wave".
brooklynite
(94,950 posts)Conor Lamb's voters didn't want impeachment.
Doug Jones' voters didn't want impeachment.
An Arizona Congresswoman I know tells me AZ voters don't want impeachment.
Zorro
(15,756 posts)Is your AZ Congresswoman a Republican?
brooklynite
(94,950 posts)Maybe you've heard of her; she's our candidate for the US Senate.
I'm sure SOME voters want impeachment; but MOST don't. Which is why Reid, Pelosi and others say talking about impeachment isn't the way to win Congressional campaigns. Ditto, the dozens of House candidates I've talked to around the country.
But perhaps anonymous bloggers know better.
Zorro
(15,756 posts)Their record regarding successful Congressional campaigns speaks for itself.
brooklynite
(94,950 posts)...when we won back the House without talking about Impeachment (despite the opposition of folks here)
Zorro
(15,756 posts)The blatant, in-your-face corruption of this administration is off the charts.
brooklynite
(94,950 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)I live in blood-red Maricopa County, Arizona. And sorry, this "real people aren't talking or concerned about impeachment" is bullshit, plain and simple.
And thank you for the 4-1-1 on Smyrna... Any Democrat that cannot see the danger this country is in because of tRump* may not DESERVE to represent the people.
And Nancy Pelosi WAS WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. Bush*, Cheney* and their cabal of war criminals should have been made to answer for their crimes... and IMPEACHING BUSH* and CHENEY* could have been part of that answer.
So what's it going to take for you and your friends "outside of political blogs" to agree to impeach tRump*? Proof of colluding with Russia to install tRump* in office? Would that do it for you?
brooklynite
(94,950 posts)Point 2: Do you have proof of collusion? I was under the impression that Mueller was still investigating, but maybe you know something he doesn't.
Point 3: I have no objection to an Impeachment action IF there's proof. MY point (and Reid's and Pelosi's) is that it's not a compelling campaign message.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)or in some cases just a political version of malicious vandalism?
These forums offer many tests for the first, certainly, and plenty of opportunities for the second.
Trump may be a particularly extreme example of a person who doesn't know what it is to know something, but the delusion of ignorant people that they know more than experts is actually extremely common.
Or as David Dunning (of Dunning-Kruger) explains in an article:
... For more than 20 years, I have researched peoples understanding of their own expertiseformally known as the study of metacognition, the processes by which human beings evaluate and regulate their knowledge, reasoning, and learningand the results have been consistently sobering, occasionally comical, and never dull.
The American author and aphorist William Feather once wrote that being educated means being able to differentiate between what you know and what you dont. As it turns out, this simple ideal is extremely hard to achieve. Although what we know is often perceptible to us, even the broad outlines of what we dont know are all too often completely invisible. To a great degree, we fail to recognize the frequency and scope of our ignorance.
In 1999, in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, my then graduate student Justin Kruger and I published a paper that documented how, in many areas of life, incompetent people do not recognizescratch that, cannot recognizejust how incompetent they are, a phenomenon that has come to be known as the Dunning-Kruger effect. Logic itself almost demands this lack of self-insight: For poor performers to recognize their ineptitude would require them to possess the very expertise they lack. To know how skilled or unskilled you are at using the rules of grammar, for instance, you must have a good working knowledge of those rules, an impossibility among the incompetent. Poor performersand we are all poor performers at some thingsfail to see the flaws in their thinking or the answers they lack.
Whats curious is that, in many cases, incompetence does not leave people disoriented, perplexed, or cautious. Instead, the incompetent are often blessed with an inappropriate confidence, buoyed by something that feels to them like knowledge. ...
https://psmag.com/social-justice/confident-idiots-92793
Hanging at DU also gives the unmistakable impression that female experts trigger especially strong delusions of superiority, the "confident idiot effect," in some.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)People want things to be different....which is not the same as impeachment.
Pushing for impeachment will stall the blue wave.
Zorro
(15,756 posts)People get that.
thesquanderer
(12,000 posts)awesomerwb1
(4,269 posts)that's not how this works.
Congress impeaches. Senate then requires 2/3s of Senators (66+) to remove.
Even if Dems take over House in November, where are you gonna find 66 votes plus to remove him?
Pelosi's right.
Zorro
(15,756 posts)Duh. Impeach and then crucify any Senate Republicans who would dare vote against conviction. I think many honorable Republican and Independent voters would get behind that.
The highest vote count among the Dems running in California's 49th District (Issa's seat) might be a real indicator of voter sentiment. My summary of their ads now running in SoCal:
Sara Jacobs: "Vote for me, I'm a woman who can bring groups together to work out solutions to difficult problems."
Doug Kerr: "Vote for me, we need better healthcare and lower educational costs."
Doug Applegate: "Impeach that worthless asshole now!"
awesomerwb1
(4,269 posts)how many people think impeachment = removal.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)air she breathed every day. She attended her first Democratic national convention when she was 12, attended JFK's inaugural ball while in college. By the time she left for college to study politics she already knew far more about practical aspects than her teachers. She interned in the senate with Steny Hoyer before marrying and becoming a traditional (Nancy-style) wife and mother.
Her immersion as a member of a political family on two coasts and activist in the Democrat Party continued while she raised 5 daughters while remaining active in the background. Her youngest was in high school when she finally entered public politics under her own name. She was 41 when she became chair of the California Democratic Party, 47 years old when she first ran for office herself, won and became a member of congress.
Imagine, at an age when many women are pushed out of good jobs due to sexual bigotry and are unable to replace them, she first entered the paid political workforce. That was over 30 years ago.
From there, she rose to the top, and what only closed, hostile minds can't understand is that that was no coincidence or accident. She rose because of tremendous, proven competence, recognized by her colleagues.
When Pelosi says that pushing impeachment before its time would be a gift to the GOP, angering currently demoralized pubs into turning out, only a fool wouldn't listen respectfully and think carefully about it.
Zorro
(15,756 posts)Pretty much every politically aware Democrat is cognizant of it. But neither Pelosi nor Reid are infallible; they've both previously expressed trust in Congressional Republican leadership, only to get stabbed in the back.
I listened respectfully and thought carefully about it, and I believe Trump's myriad number of impeachable offenses is a gift that will fire up our base and like-minded Republicans and Independents in November. Perhaps we'll get a more accurate bead on the best political strategy in the June primaries.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I think you can do better. This has nothing to do with the Republican leadership, except as they invest in gasoline.
TranssexualKaren
(364 posts)And you realize that that is the real difference between Republicans and Democrats. If this were president Hillary Clinton and there was this much evidence against her the repos would certainly already have impeachment hearings underway. People will never take the Democratic Party seriously until they get over this fear of short term disadvantage in favor of having guts...
JoeOtterbein
(7,703 posts)Why wait?
question everything
(47,580 posts)to remove him from office and "beating" this would embolden him and his base.
Preventing his "agenda" to pass, perhaps reversing some of his bills would be a sweeter revenge.
Zorro
(15,756 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Yet saying "it can't be done practically" is not. It's simply a realization of current empirical considerations.
Ccarmona
(1,180 posts)Without any evidence being presented.
Nixons Impeachment didnt have the votes until the days before his resignation when new and mounting evidence against him was brought forward.
For Rep Pelosi to categorically declare, again, that Impeachment is off the table, does a disservice to the voters.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)I see that defeatist attitude over and over and over on this board. That's a fabulous, succinct response that is 100% true. And I can point to the Parkland students as ample contemporary proof. (And, no, they haven't accomplished all their goals yet, but BOY have they changed the landscape and gotten a number of positive wins in their corner.) Don't EVER say "we can't do that because there aren't enough votes" or "people won't buy it." You never know until you try --
idahoblue
(378 posts)But that is not the issue we need to run on. The real issues are taxes, safety nets, the environment and public lands. If we take back the house, I am sure impeachment will be on the menu, but there are real issues that affect all voters, including the trumpsters, that we can win on. Winning congress will neuter Donald for the duration of his term.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,179 posts)Of course Republicans will use a threat of impeachment to weaponize their base. But we can also weaponize and galvanize our own base to larger degree.
Our base is bigger than their base. This kind of cowardliness is what really harms Democrats. Because, it displays that everything is about playing political cards to gain advantages, or avoid disadvantages, as opposed to facing reality, and calling their bluff. Most Americans think he is guilty. It looks much more disingenuous to shrink back, and now even criticize the notion of holding the President accountable for those crimes. They look weak and wishywashy. My gawd have they learned nothing?
thesquanderer
(12,000 posts)Also, what we need is to motivate the people in the middle, who are not already part of either base. I don't know whether or not talk of impeachment helps there, maybe that varies geographically. So I think it's reasonable to say talking about it may not be the best political strategy between now and November. Now, what to DO about it afterwards is a whole different conversation.
dajoki
(10,678 posts)we have to be as dirty as they are to win elections, they have shown us that it works well.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)question everything
(47,580 posts)who were ashamed of what Nixon was doing to the presidency.
Today, his "fuck you" everyone is being cheered by too many.
MFM008
(19,834 posts)Of high crimes and misdemeanors DESERVE impeachment.
If Muellers investigation shows it and the democrats
Stall and dither, predict there will be hell to pay.
Paladin
(28,283 posts)Can we talk about the vague possibility of impeaching trump, after the midterms? Maybe? Pretty please? Does trump ever get to be a "gift" to Democrats, or is that just too much to hope for?
I saw my first "Trump 2020" bumper sticker on a truck a couple of days ago. How about it, Ms. Minority Leader? Should we look forward to trump's charms until 20fucking24?
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)just as she has protected Bush.
marble falls
(57,479 posts)Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)DinahMoeHum
(21,829 posts)And that candidates should not bring up this issue in their campaigns;
and if asked,
tell the public that if they feel the circumstances and evidence warrant impeachment, they'd seriously consider it,
but they really cannot give a yes-or-no answer right now because they don't have all the data in their hands.
FakeNoose
(32,884 posts)Pelosi's goal is to get as many Dems into Congress as possible. Take majority in the House. Maybe not majority in the Senate but get as close as possible.
After November, THEN we start talking seriously about impeachment. She gets it, Mueller gets it, we'd have to be stupid if we can't see this.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,651 posts)She knows that the GOP will turn it against us. We have to have our candidates run on strong local issues since this was what won the special elections. She also told them to stay away from the abortion topic and I would add the 2nd amend and immigration. We should all focus on the two issues that voters in both parties want...affordable health care and REAL tax cuts for the average voter.
rockfordfile
(8,709 posts)chowder66
(9,104 posts)I think once Mueller's investigation is done then 'talk' of impeachment will be wholly appropriate if Mueller has enough to go on.
I wish we could impeach him right now but we can't.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)herding cats
(19,569 posts)Right now the Blue Wave is being fed by a desire for change, not by impeachment dreams. Which doesn't mean there's not some who hope for it to become a reality.
If/when there's evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors after the investigation is finished, then we talk about it. Doing so before on assumptions gives the Republicans an edge on us. They know it could drive their voters to the polls who are otherwise not enthusiastic over voting for them right now. Which is the last thing we need before midterms.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)has ties to dreams of impeachment.
I DO know this:
Americans want good government. They're not getting it. THAT's the change they want. They are horrified and frantic about Trump & his rowdy friends in Congress and even more so in his cabinet.
They're not flocking to the Dems when they have a chance to vote for any other reason than to put a rein on Trump. It's certainly not our policies or our good looks that are creating this wave. They see democracy threatened, and that's why they've mobilized.
ETA: I'll add that the circumstantial evidence alone ought to be enough to bury Trump. In a sane world, it would. His dereliction of duty alone. On and on and on.
herding cats
(19,569 posts)I know what's real and what's not here. I know what polls and what doesn't. That's a fact, but it's all I know. My local politics, I mean.
I'm not playing a game here. I want to win desperately. To me a majority is the end game.
ananda
(28,895 posts)The harm to so many innocents is unconscionable!
mcar
(42,465 posts)tomp
(9,512 posts)...are mutually exclusive?
0rganism
(23,989 posts)let's put it back in the cellar with our 7 tons of dry powder.
RandiFan1290
(6,261 posts)Owl
(3,647 posts)Chakaconcarne
(2,479 posts)Talk now would not be productive.....but if it comes to it a year from now... Hell no.
Maxheader
(4,374 posts)to rid washington of cheetoz anyway...why worry about it?
I think its a good mix of voter attitude..the rad left considers
rump to be just a step above treason and should get the
rope..while the mods..same ones that cried to the free
republic dudes how sorry that obama won, and then
were promptly kicked off. Remember that well.
bluestarone
(17,105 posts)I feel she's right!! We really need to wait this out! After the midterms our chances are better, and also who knows what other evidence RUMP will give us in the time frame up to midterm. Also we gotta know what Mueller advises Congress! Hell he MAY indict RUMP himself, WE don't know for sure what will come of his investigation. I want him IMPEACHED BUT I do want to succeed to!!!! Hell his head would swell 100 times over if he wins this!! Just my 2 cents worth here
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)Dems have been grabbing Repub seats and the goal to actually Impeaching Trump successfully can ONLY be done after this election 2018, when we have the votes to do so.
She is absolutely correct.
As of now, there have been articles of Impeachment introduced with the bill n9t even making it to the floor.
November is the ONLY shot we have at removing the power that keeps Trump protected,.
Impeachment is only possible after the groundwork is done & the votes have been counted in November.
Pretty much a futile effort until then.
Pelosi is correct as usual.
dameatball
(7,405 posts)SylviaD
(721 posts)Gothmog
(145,839 posts)herding cats
(19,569 posts)All politics is local. That's a fact and it's not new. Yet, still, people want to apply their personal emotions instead of logic when things come up they disagree with.
SSDD. We will never learn apparently.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)they will lose.
Vinca
(50,326 posts)Trump is mentally unstable and will most likely be charged with crimes. Not talking impeachment is living in a make believe world.