'ENVIRONMENTAL CATASTROPHE' North Korea's Nuclear Test Site Has 'Collapsed'
Source: The Daily Beast
North Koreas underground nuclear test site has become unusable after a large part of it collapsed, Chinese scientists say. Their evidence comes just one week after a surprise announcement from leader Kim Jong Un that North Korea would stop nuclear tests, with one researcher suggesting to the South China Morning Post that the collapse was the real reason for the unexpected suspension. The experts, led by researchers at the University of Science and Technology of China, have warned that another blast in the same spot and with similar yield to one in September, which is believed to have caused the collapse, could lead to environmental catastrophe. The occurrence of the collapse should deem the underground infrastructure beneath mountain Mantap not be used for any future nuclear tests, said an abstract for the study.
READ IT AT THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
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Read more: https://www.thedailybeast.com/north-koreas-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed?ref=home
AllyCat
(16,259 posts)Blue_Adept
(6,402 posts)Glad to see that it's getting more analysis and confirmation.
SWBTATTReg
(22,191 posts)environment that these North K. have. If area around collapsed, I wonder what other ramifications will occur...did some of their nuclear scientists get caught in the collapse? Probably not, these guys are too valuable to the North K. Did leakage occur? Probably so, unless only verified visually (and not by onside/near site detectors). How large of an area was impacted? How much of the ground water was contaminated?
I'm not going to say that these guys were bad environmentally (they were), but the US military also has a history of contamination too, w/ over 800+ nuclear explosions during the days of the cold war (White Sands, Pacific, etc.). The Soviets did too. Everything was gung ho due to the raging Cold War.
Eventually testing migrated to just below ground, but even that was dangerous and eventually discontinued when the size of test blasts were not accurately estimated, and led to blasts escaping into the atmosphere (burst through the ground).
Maybe finally someone will learn ... somehow I doubt it.
yonder
(9,685 posts)use Google Earth to visit the area 50-100 miles northwest of Las Vegas, Nevada. All those little pits you see? You guessed it.
PJMcK
(22,067 posts)Well, I guess it was all worth it.
(sarcasm)
blugbox
(951 posts)So so many times.... and the ocean
To me, those are the worst offenders. Why? why why why
Nitram
(22,945 posts)contaminated by atmospheric nuclear tests. I've heard that you shouldn't eat the yellow snow, but I guess this is like, "don't eat the snow that glows in the dark."
MountCleaners
(1,148 posts)This is so sad. It's haunting.
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)He should send his main geologist, Ryan Zinke to make a report!
mountain grammy
(26,663 posts)usaf-vet
(6,232 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 25, 2018, 12:22 PM - Edit history (1)
Maybe we should start a Go-Fund Zinke Explorations. When he returns he can give Trump a "glowing" report. And bring back a nice sample of the debris for Trump's desk.
forgotmylogin
(7,539 posts)We'll even pop for a 1st class seat on the plane.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Trinitite, also known as atomsite or Alamogordo glass, is the glassy residue left on the desert floor after the plutonium-based Trinity nuclear bomb test on July 16, 1945, near Alamogordo, New Mexico. The glass is primarily composed of arkosic sand composed of quartz grains and feldspar ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitite
Phoenix61
(17,023 posts)yonder
(9,685 posts)thanks for the other link.
forgotmylogin
(7,539 posts)"If we have nukes, why can't we use them?"
https://www.good.is/articles/trump-asks-about-nukes
mountain grammy
(26,663 posts)True Blue American
(17,995 posts)True Blue American
(17,995 posts)Are you the old Phoenix I used to post with?
Phoenix61
(17,023 posts)sanity saving place until right after the awful, terrible, horrible thing happened a little over a year ago.
True Blue American
(17,995 posts)You are just like me and found a great board of very smart people.
I knew a Phoenix about 10 years ago. Not here.
Guilded Lilly
(5,591 posts)Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)North Koreans think and act like republicans - so no big surprise here that they have pissed & crapped on their own patch of the planet.
End Of The Road
(1,397 posts)brooklynite
(94,921 posts)Native
(5,943 posts)KY_EnviroGuy
(14,498 posts)(snips)
North Koreas mountain nuclear test site has collapsed, putting China and other nearby nations at unprecedented risk of radioactive exposure, two separate groups of Chinese scientists studying the issue have confirmed. The collapse after five nuclear blasts may be why North Korean leader Kim Jong-un declared last Friday that he would freeze the hermit states nuclear and missile tests and shut down the site, one researcher said.
A research team led by Wen Lianxing, a geologist with the University of Science and Technology of China in Hefei, concluded the collapse occurred following the detonation last autumn of North Koreas most powerful thermal nuclear warhead in a tunnel about 700 metres (2,296 feet) below the mountains peak. The test turned the mountain into fragile fragments, the researchers found.
The mountains collapse and the prospect of radioactive exposure in the aftermath, confirms a series of exclusive reports by the South China Morning Post on Chinas fears that Pyongyangs latest nuclear test had caused a fallout leak. Radioactive dust could escape through holes or cracks in the damaged mountain, the scientists said.
The mountains surface had shown no visible damage after four underground nuclear tests before 2017. But the 100-kilotonne bomb that went off on September 3 vaporised surrounding rocks with unprecedented heat and opened a space that was up to 200 metres (656 feet) in diameter, according to a statement posted on the Wen teams website on Monday.
We can put a thick layer of soil on top of the collapsed site, fill the cracks with special cement, or remove the pollutants with chemical solution, he said. There are many methods to deal with the problem. All they need [to do] is ask.
(end snips)
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This thing could potentially send radioactive particles over South Korea, Japan, China and other nations in the area, depending on prevailing winds. Ground water runoff could also wind up in the sea.
This should take the steam out of tRump's bluster....but maybe not......
dalton99a
(81,677 posts)poboy2
(2,078 posts)True Blue American
(17,995 posts)Explain a lot. Thank you all!
SWBTATTReg
(22,191 posts)dalton99a
(81,677 posts)yellerpup
(12,254 posts)OF COURSE Kim Jong Un can't go forward with his nuclear threat after the earthquake that destroyed the testing site. Big incentive to 'make peace' with the US. He's disabled his own program.
So could this be the bigger news.... Not that trumps wonderful talking Kim Un into stopping the testing, but the fact that this was discovered, and used as another GOP "we're greater then anybody" talking point?
True Blue American
(17,995 posts)Another great accomplishment shot all to,uh,um, heck!
BobTheSubgenius
(11,573 posts)Any tweets, so far?
Turbineguy
(37,392 posts)It was Pompeo (nominated by the guy who gets the best people) whose negotiating skills caused this collapse retroactively?
Renew Deal
(81,895 posts)Dopers_Greed
(2,640 posts)Not because of the Orange Blob's masterful negotiation
dem4decades
(11,317 posts)dalton99a
(81,677 posts)Mad_Mongol
(86 posts)They've already tested workable designs, which means they have solved geometry and timing (triggering) issues. The only stumbling block left is miniturization. That is a design issue that can be modeled by numerical methods --a modest compute cluster, or a few thousand cpu- hours on AWS (@ ~$350/hr).
Though the delivery vehicle might be the problem... there's only so many surplus Russian rocket motors available.
Sanity Claws
(21,863 posts)I don't know the geology of the area but wonder whether this is going to affect the country's drinking water.
riversedge
(70,419 posts)be disappointed.
Nitram
(22,945 posts)"...another blast in the same spot and with similar yield to one in September...could lead to environmental catastrophe." If that's the original title, I believe the person who posts it should not have quoted it. Or at least left off the "ENVIRONMENTAL CATASTROPHE" part.
Response to Nitram (Reply #33)
csziggy This message was self-deleted by its author.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)the cultists believe that Trump personally dug out the cave prior to the test to ensure its collapse.
It worked for Reagan and the Cold War.
True Blue American
(17,995 posts)2 small shovels full of dirt on a tree yesterday.
Then gave them a piece of cloth off an old chair. I bet the French will love that.
After all, they only gave us the Statue Of Liberty!
Freethinker65
(10,093 posts)yonder
(9,685 posts)and other than what we've seen so far, I wonder if this account will sprout legs in our MSM as well? They should be hammering this story home while watching the redhats go crazy.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)in the collapse of the Soviet Union, so much so that it was the initiating theme of a "Star Trek" movie, "Undiscovered Country" and the "Only Nixon could go to China" association with Kirk.
Maybe North Korea has determined they just can't afford nuclear programs anymore - under the present sanctions.
Time to game the buffoon in the White House.
FSogol
(45,580 posts)attacking Seoul while US fighter jets strafe him.
KPN
(15,673 posts)to go dormant, meanwhile in the universe of reality, the earth is imploding. Fucking assholes (pardon my French). How about we stick the two of them together in a space capsule and send them to the nearest large black hole.
Why do people let this shit happen???!!! Mind boggling.
RockRaven
(15,063 posts)that this was the reason they even discussed suspending nuclear tests in the first place?
NCjack
(10,279 posts)to stop their strategy from working by starting an unnecessary war.
scipan
(2,365 posts)Radiation levels in a Chinese city nearly 2,000km from a North Korean nuclear test site spiked following Pyongyangs latest and most powerful nuclear weapons test in September, according to Chinese scientists.
However, the spike in iodine-129 levels Xian was probably not related to the detonation of a 100-kilotonne hydrogen bomb in a tunnel at the Punggye-ri nuclear test site on September 3 and was more likely to have originated in Europe, they said.
The spike was recently declassified by the Chinese Academy of Sciences, prompting heated discussion among researchers about its possible cause, with some disputing the Europe theory.
From September 3 to 11, levels of iodine-129 in Xian, capital of Shaanxi province in northwestern China, jumped to at least 4.5 times the average, according to readings picked up by instruments at the academys Institute of Earth Environment, which is based in the city.
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2125448/what-caused-radiation-spike-xian-north-korean-blast-european
longship
(40,416 posts)And it took a few tests for them to solve the initiator problem. The first couple tests were small, on the order of a yield of conventional explosives. Conclusion? Their initiators did not work right. The assembly blew apart before the chain reaction could get going. No nuclear detonation.
I'll also say that I don't believe that DPRK has a fusion bomb. The last big blast was well within the realm of large fission bombs.
Rule number one with DPRK...
Take their claims with a grain of salt. Don't believe what they claim. Verify it first.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,498 posts)Wouldn't the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) be the logical agency to monitor long-term environmental effects? I certainly don't think we and our allies (eg, Japan and S. Korea) can trust the Chinese to properly monitor and report it. This leakage could get into the air as well as the ocean and contaminate fish stocks.
longship
(40,416 posts)However, it is pretty damned difficult to hide releases of those daughter products when they are leaked. Remember Chernobyl? Everybody in the world was well aware of the accident well before the Soviets admitted it. In fact, the Soviets HAD to release the information because it had already been exposed by scientists all over the world.
Now Chernobyl was much, much worse of a situation than likely has occurred in the DPRK, however of the daughter products of Uranium fission, many are long lived. One just cannot keep such things secret for long.
Mr. Kim has undoubtedly been told this, and if that last greater than 100Kton explosion has resulted in their test site to collapse -- and I would be very surprised if it hadn't -- he knows that his nuclear test regime is finished.
Any intervention by the UN (IEAE) would have to negotiated with the DPRK, as I am not sure that they are on very friendly terms. However recent overtures certainly indicates that something has changed. Maybe something rather important. That certainly might be something like their last test going rather horribly wrong.
My opinion is that we're going to have to see. The wild card may very well be not Mr. Kim, but Mr. Drumpf. (Horrors!!!)
Thank you for your response.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,498 posts)Not being well versed on all of IAEA's activities, I was mainly interested in knowing if any agency automatically takes charge of ring-fencing an incident like this to plan a monitoring profile, install additional monitors as needed, and compile the data. I know there are nuclear monitors around the globe, but not sure of who is in charge of those. I do know as a comparison, for example, the global system of earthquake monitors are quite well coordinated.
Even when international inspectors are not allowed within the borders where an incident occurs, it seems in the public interest to track particle levels in areas outside the borders - particularly downwind and down-stream.
It would be interesting to read a summary of the on-site data the Chinese scientists collected - but we'll probably never see it.
......