Guns a popular Christmas gift this holiday season

[pstokely]

Source: KSDK

Guns are a popular Christmas gift. Black Friday was the biggest day of gun sales this year, according to the FBI. It's single day sales record. The agency tracks the sales by counting background check requests for gun purchases. This year, the FBI got more than $200,000 just on Black Friday.

"This is very common in our society to buy guns for Christmas presents,” King said. "Personal defense and home defense played a big part."

But some would disagree.

"I would not give a gun for Christmas because I believe a gun is a deadly weapon."

Barbara Finch is with Women's Voices Raised For Social Justice. It's an organization that advocates for gun safety.

Read more: http://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/guns-a-popular-christmas-gift-this-holiday-season/63-502270156

---

they'll shoot their eyes out

[ollie10]

1. How many weapons did Jesus carry?

Does Santa pack a weapon?

[Igel]

10. He told one disciple to take up a sword.

When you're the lord of hosts incarnate and can ask for thousands of angels to defend you, weapons seem a bit unnecessary.

Most people have half a Jesus. Their own personal pokejeez. With sharply varying attack modes.

[Skittles]

2. gun humpers are so fucking pathetic

[bucolic_frolic]

3. Turn the other cheek

so I can shoot that one too

[Mr.Bill]

4. If the gun you are buying is for someone other than yourself

you are breaking the law. Interesting they would make the hypothesis that gun applications equal gifts.

[madville]

12. It's legal in most places, a few states restrict gifting firearms

It's completely legal under most state law and federal law to purchase a firearm with the intent to gift it to someone. The person receiving the gift just has to legally be able to own a firearm. A few states require the person receiving the gifted firearm to have a background check done at a licensed FFL for the transfer.

[NickB79]

16. That is not the definition of a straw purchase

It is perfectly legal to buy someone a firearm, provided you are giving it as a gift (they aren't paying you back for it), and you have no prior knowledge that they are ineligible to legally own such a weapon. A parent can buy their child a gun for hunting legally, for example.

Straw purchases typically involve one person using another's money to purchase a gun for them, knowing they'd fail the background check.

[AtheistCrusader]

24. Gifting is legal. Straw purchasing is buying on behalf of another person.

It's not a gift if they give you the money, you buy the gun to bypass the background check, and then give the gun to the person who gave you the money.

[sweetapogee]

28. You are incorrect

In many places (my state of residence included) it is legal to purchase a firearm as a gift. The person receiving the gift has to be legally able to own a firearm. If the recipient is not legally able to own forearms and/or could not pass an NICS check then misery is in the future of both parties.

A straw purchase is when a person legally purchases a firearm from an FFL then resells it to an individual who cannot legally pass an NICS check. That is of course illegal and will get the persons involved in much hot water.

It is my understanding that if you fill out the forms to purchase a firearm at an FFL and you are denied the purchase due to past legal issues then expect a follow-up visit from the authorities. I have a family friend that spends a lot of time in a gun shop, he told me a story once about being in a gun shop when the owner calling in a for a background check was told the person buying the gun was denied purchase. The gun shop owner told the friend afterwards that it happens more often than you might think, especially since medical mj has become common. Hard to imagine that persons that have convictions in their past would lie about it on the forms but apparently some do it and it compounds their troubles.

[NickB79]

36. There are no follow-ups if you fail the background check

Which is bull, IMO, because failure indicates you just committed a felony by lying on the form.

In 2012, only 44 out of 80,000 failures were prosecuted:

http://www.politifact.com/new-hampshire/statements/2013/mar/22/kelly-ayotte/most-people-trying-buy-gun-illegally-us-senator-ke/

[sweetapogee]

40. it should a

100% prosecution rate.

[NickB79]

43. +1000

I mean, you have to write down your address on the background check, for Christ's sake. How much easier can they make it to find them?

[metalbot]

53. I bring this point up frequently

...especially when people talk about "closing the gun show loophole" by introducing more background checks.

I feel like if I have to do background checks to purchase a firearm, then the people who commit felonies by lying on their NICS form probably ought to be prosecuted before we start asking me to fill out more forms.

I find the lack of enforcement bizarre, because this is something that absolutely nobody would oppose on either side of the political aisle. The only people who would have the incentive to oppose this would be the FBI and federal prosecutors, both of whom would have to do a lot more work.

Alternative explanations would be:
1. NICS isn't particularly accurate, and has a high rate of false positives (especially for people who don't want to use SSN on the form).
2. To prosecute for perjury you need to prove that people knew they were lying, and there could be some ambiguity about whether some misdemeanor convictions are domestic violence or not.

[Fullduplexxx]

5. No celebrarion of the birth of christ is complete without a gun

[Fullduplexxx]

6. Idolitry

[ProudLib72]

7. I eagerly await statistics on how many idiots shot themselves

opening their presents today. And don't anyone tell me that it would be absurd to wrap a loaded gun because you know damn good and well these morans are quite capable of surprisingly dumb moves.

[Tanuki]

8. Matthew 26:52

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

[SunSeeker]

9. Idiots bringing death into their homes.

[Hoyt]

11. Every 10 year old wants a gun when daddy is a friggin gun-fancier.

[Aristus]

13. Yeah, I'll bet.

I'm sure the Trumpanzees are all busy telling each other: "Now we are free to buy guns again! No more war on guns!" the same way they convinced each other that there was a 'war' on Christmas.

[dustyscamp]

14. You know the way the world is now I think all Dems should think about owning a firearm or two

Our rights and the law right now barely protect us and when they are gone what then? How will we fight a new civil war if our only weapon is words and protests? How can we protect ourselves and our loved ones from crazy Republicans if we don't own a gun?

[J_William_Ryan]

15. Democrats do own guns.

But guns aren't the center of their existence.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. There's about a 20% delta in ownership rates. But yes, we do own guns too.

[dustyscamp]

39. I know a good amount of Dems own guns its just we will be outgunned if civil war happens

[NickB79]

17. A lot of us do

I work in a union factory in the Upper Midwest. Our state is blue. Vacation time is a battle every year, as everyone wants to schedule theirs around hunting season. Hell, most schools around here see attendence plummet for a few fall days as kids and their parents hit the woods.

Lots of guns in Democrat households around here.

[mac56]

19. Um, no.

[Paladin]

22. Funny thing about that:

For years and years, our resident DU Gun Enthusiasts lectured us on what they believed to be the true purpose of the Second Amendment: the empowerment of an armed public against the imposition of a dangerous, corrupt, dictator-friendly federal government. Funny thing: those lectures seem to have disappeared from DU during the last year, under the malignant reign of Orange Julius. There was never a shortage such sentiments, back when there was a black Democratic president in competent, under-appreciated residence at the White House. You remember him, don't you? Guy by the name of Obama, who was going to take everybody's guns away.

I am yet another gun-owning Democrat, so I can relate to your frustrations and concerns.

[Hoyt]

27. Interesting how those "gun enthusiasts" have been scarce since Trump was elected

and their guns are safe for awhile. There are a few who regularly participate in other topics.

Noticed that gunners are cheering today about how many gun culture dad's bought their kids their first lethal weapons as an introduction into the gun culture and all the ugliness that goes with it.

?itok=-3tWzaGd

[ClarendonDem]

29. Guns were safe under President Obama too

Despite the NRA's rhetoric to the contrary, President Obama never tried to take anyone's guns.

[Hoyt]

31. Yeah, but you guys were scared for your guns at the start of his term.

[ClarendonDem]

34. I don't think any Dem

Was scared for their guns at any point under President Obama's time in office. I certainly wasn't worried. President Obama, unlike Trump, respects the Constitution. If anybody is going to take guns it is Trump--that's what despots who don't respect the rule of law do.

[Marengo]

46. Who are you guys? This fear was expressed on DU?

[john657]

50. This Democrat wasn't scared.

I knew President Obama was friendly to lawful gun owners.

[Hoyt]

55. Good to see the word on this thread got out to gunners.

[john657]

56. What do you define as a gunner?

[Hoyt]

58. Just about everything from those who promote guns; public toters, gun profiteers, to AR15 owners,

especially multiple; 3%ers and others who use guns to intimidate; Ted Nugent; Randy Weaver; followers of John Lott, Massad Ayoob, etc., George Zimmerman and Stand Your Ground supporters; dads who introduce their kids to gun culture early; and worse. That includes NRA members, members of other pro-gun groups, or just people too cheap to pay dues but supportive of white wing gun BS.


Pictures tell the story too --





?w=640&ssl=1









?1


Hope that helps give you an idea.

[john657]

59. Got it.

Thanks.

[hack89]

49. President Obama was good to gun owners. Our guns were very safe. nt

[friendly_iconoclast]

45. Note that we *did* warn of the possibility of a depraved, oppressive government...

Also, the "gun-owner-as-Uncle-Ruckus" schtick is far from new:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1172148626#post49

X_Digger Tue Jan-25-11 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
60. How about..

Not sure if this one counts as a separate one, but the..

MGAFYGAE -- "MY guns are fine, YOUR guns are evil."

Black powder guns, revolvers, traditionally stocked shotguns, deer rifles, even 1911's- "But I {or Dad, or Granddad, or Uncle Duke} had / have one of those, so they're perfectly fine. The rest of your guns? Ban 'em."

friendly_iconoclast Thu Jan-27-11 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. That's a good one. A variant is the "Uncle Ruckus"

Claiming to be a gun owner and/or very familiar with guns, and yet continually putting down other gun owners

But take heart! You could set an example and quiet any talk of hypocrisy by
destroying your guns.

A good-quality bandsaw or circular saw with the proper blade will do the job quickly and safely.

Be sure to use proper eye and ear protection, and let us know how it turns out, mmkay?

[Hoyt]

54. Most gunners were warning of a depraved government even when Obama was Prez, and before.

Remember these guys, Bundy ranchers, NRA members, George Zimmerman supporters, white wing gunners, etc.

[friendly_iconoclast]

70. If you've got a response that isn't an 'association fallacy', I'd love to see it

And as for that selection from your racially segregated photo collection, I can only reply:

[Hoyt]

71. If you have a response that does not show your support for more guns, I'd like to see that.

By the way, your photos are a direct response to the majority of gun owners who are white wing racists.

[friendly_iconoclast]

72. Following up the association fallacy with "proof by assertion"?

Your claim that:

the majority of gun owners who are white wing racists.

is not all that different from the white wing racist claim that 'Obama is a secret Muslim'-
it's merely a different 'proof by assertion':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion

Proof by assertion, sometimes informally referred to as proof by repeated assertion, is an informal fallacy in which a proposition is repeatedly restated regardless of contradiction.[1] Sometimes, this may be repeated until challenges dry up, at which point it is asserted as fact due to its not being contradicted (argumentum ad nauseam).[2] In other cases, its repetition may be cited as evidence of its truth, in a variant of the appeal to authority or appeal to belief fallacies.[3]

This fallacy is sometimes used as a form of rhetoric by politicians, or during a debate as a filibuster. In its extreme form, it can also be a form of brainwashing.[1] Modern politics contains many examples of proofs by assertion. This practice can be observed in the use of political slogans, and the distribution of "talking points", which are collections of short phrases that are issued to members of modern political parties for recitation to achieve maximum message repetition. The technique is also sometimes used in advertising

[Skittles]

60. you think Democrats don't own guns?

and what you describe is the NRA wet dream - everyone armed, everyone paranoid - what kind of sick, cowardly society is that???

[john657]

61. What gives you the impression that Democrats don't own guns?

[dustyscamp]

68. Repugs over the years have been constantly joking about Dems being afraid of guns and being anti gun

Yeah there is a good amount of Dems out there with guns, but I'm just worried that in the future we will need to use them against a heavily armed Republican army

[john657]

69. I think that if the repugs attempted any stupid stunt like that,

they would be in for a very rude surprise.

[muntrv]

18. If there were a reason to wage war with N. Korea,

it would be to draft these ammosexuals.

[ClarendonDem]

30. I think unfortunately we'd end up with a lot of people who are not

"Ammosexuals" drafted and dead.

[john657]

51. What's are "ammosexuals"?

[ClarendonDem]

62. No idea

Just quoting the prior post.

[john657]

63. Thanks.

I'm assuming it's an insult directed towards gun owners, but I could be wrong.

[Lurks Often]

64. You are not wrong, it is an insult directed toward gun owners

by some of the anti-gun "intellectuals" here who think they are clever and smart when they are neither.

This thread and others like this are typical here and have been going on for years, both sides post their opinions and facts and pretty much no one ever changes there mind.

[john657]

65. Thanks for the explanation.

It seems soooooooooo childish, but, whatever floats someone's boat.

[ClarendonDem]

66. I assumed it meant something more than just being a gun owner

Since something like 30% of Dems are gun owners.

[Lurks Often]

67. Disagreeing with the gun control "intellectuals" here usually means you're an "ammosexual"

[malthaussen]

20. Peace on Earth, goodwill to men.

I'd say "bah, humbug," but Mr Scrooge has the copyright to that.

-- Mal

[sofa king]

21. But... I thought Obawma took 'em all away?

[pstokely]

26. tRump gave em all back after Obawma took 'em all away

that's what the MAGAts probably think

[OliverQ]

23. I really hate this country. Somebody get me out!

[n2doc]

32. The ideal MAGA Xmas Gift!

[LTG]

33. There is a negligent discharge in these children's futures

Terrible trigger discipline. Target shooting and bird hunting with the dogs have always been a part of our family recreation. My kids couldn't even get anywhere near a firearm until they clearly knew and understood all of the safety rules and why they existed. They had to truly comprehend the destruction that could be wrought with a few pounds of thoughtless pressure. Many of these things are age and maturity dependent.

Then they had to be able to take them apart, clean them, put them back together and clearly understand their functioning before ammunition appeared outside of an ammo locker. At anytime the guns were out of the safe I was physically present and attentively monitoring the activities. We had many hours of time spent together that involved the use of firearms.

They are all adults now and because they were well trained and conscientious in observing the rules we have happy memories to look back on, and not tragedy.

I also trained and monitoring them while they used, at an appropriate age, the power saw, chainsaw and lawnmower. It's called being a good parent.

[hunter]

35. If you are buying a gun as a gift for anyone in my family...

... make sure it's a gun you can eat 'cause it's gonna get chopped up into small pieces and served to you as your Christmas dinner. With gravy on top, still warm from gun's encounter with the angle grinder. Sorry about the sharp edges.

Bless us our Lord, and don't expect any welcome back next Christmas.

Gun person consider yourself lucky. The older family tradition would be shove your guns up your ass, tie you down to the horse you rode in on, and send you away. Pity your horse. God I miss my great grandmas. They were all steely eyed women of the Wild West and they had zero tolerance for foolish men with guns.

My wilderness born grandma could kill or maim or castrate any bad man with her words. She didn't need guns or knives to hurt people. She was extremely proficient with both knives and guns. Thankfully these were skills reserved only in preparation of dinner. We ate the Easter Bunny one Easter (or one of his helpers) but she never bagged a reindeer.

[Marengo]

47. Im not certain which is more fanciful, the tales you tell of your family or your expectation they..

Be believed.

[ileus]

37. Gave my son a new 270.

I try and get him something new every Christmas. By the time he's out and on his own he should have a nice collection.

[maxsolomon]

38. So were sweaters and gloves.

$200,000 background checks? why the superfluous dollar sign?

Top notch reporting, KSDK.

[NickB79]

44. I think they meant there were 200,000 checks

Not a monetary amount.

[maxsolomon]

48. I assumed that as well

Lazy editing really chaps my hide.

[Turbineguy]

41. Yeah, the Birth of Baby Jesus

calls for it.

[RobinA]

42. Today in Walmart

I saw shotgun shell Christmas lights. I kid you not. I was looking for a certain kind of light and these things cross my vision and I think, Jeez, did no one notice that those weird lights look like shells? The joke was on me, they actually were shotgun shell Christmas lights. I wouldn’t believe it if I hadn’t seen it.

[john657]

52. Saw the same thing in our local WalMart also.

Really weird.

[Politicub]

57. You will shoot your brain out, kid

My cousin gave his wife a pistol festooned with a pink leopard pattern. It looked like a firearm for aspiring-mercenary Barbie. I have never seen something so deadly ridiculous.

They have an 18 month old daughter. I hope they do the sensible thing and keep this Disney-fied firearm out of sight and reach. Innocent curiosity could quickly escalate to senseless injury or death.