In Vast Effort, F.D.A. Spied on E-Mails of Its Own Scientists
Source: NY Times
By ERIC LICHTBLAU and SCOTT SHANE
Published: July 14, 2012
WASHINGTON A wide-ranging surveillance operation by the Food and Drug Administration against a group of its own scientists used an enemies list of sorts as it secretly captured thousands of e-mails that the disgruntled scientists sent privately to members of Congress, lawyers, labor officials, journalists and even President Obama, previously undisclosed records show.
What began as a narrow investigation into the possible leaking of confidential agency information by five scientists quickly grew in mid-2010 into a much broader campaign to counter outside critics of the agencys medical review process, according to the cache of more than 80,000 pages of computer documents generated by the surveillance effort.
Moving to quell what one memorandum called the collaboration of the F.D.A.s opponents, the surveillance operation identified 21 agency employees, Congressional officials, outside medical researchers and journalists thought to be working together to put out negative and defamatory information about the agency.
F.D.A. officials defended the surveillance operation, saying that the computer monitoring was limited to the five scientists suspected of leaking confidential information about the safety and design of medical devices.
Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/us/fda-surveillance-of-scientists-spread-to-outside-critics.html?hp
MADem
(135,425 posts)And not the heads of whistleblowers, either....?
At least the WH gave a shit about this--the Bush administration would have cheerleaded it.
Other administration officials were so concerned to learn of the F.D.A. operation that the White House Office of Management and Budget sent a governmentwide memo last month emphasizing that while the internal monitoring of employee communications was allowed, it could not be used under the law to intimidate whistle-blowers. Any monitoring must be done in ways that do not interfere with or chill employees use of appropriate channels to disclose wrongdoing, the memo said.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...because if there is any agency which deserves to be reamed, excoriated and the whole lot of them fired forthwith, it's the Big Pharma sycophantic drug pushers at the FDA.
Corrupt and rotten as hell.....
K&R
MADem
(135,425 posts)And these unelected little bureaucratic fuckers over at FDA were SPYING ON THEM, reading THEIR mail, intercepting THEIR private correspondence! White House staff aren't all that humble either--I'm sure they've got their "How DARE they?" on!
I can't disagree with your assessment of those FDA assclowns--but the good news is this; it may be an opportunity to do an early clear-out of all that BushCo deadwood over there that converted from appointments to civil service. Of course, there will have to be investigations, but I can't see Congress coddling those bums one bit if they decide to hold hearings. Here's hoping...!
boppers
(16,588 posts)I'm not seeing it, at multiple levels.
MADem
(135,425 posts)allowed to read anyone's work-related emails for any reason? What--we should publish the emails of Congressional staffers along with the Congressional record? Please. The messages are not "public"--they are work product and in this case, they had to do with whistleblowing. The network, FWIW, is not "public" either--if it were, we could all access it. And we cannot.
We do not have the contemporaneous "right" to look over the shoulders of public servants as they do their jobs. If we did, there'd be very little work getting done. This work product is made a matter of record for historical and other purposes, but it is not published unless a need arises for the materials, for example, in the context of an investigation. Contemporaneous surveillance, in the hopes of catching people out, to discover who the "rat" is who is reporting on workplace malfeasance, is an improper use of Privacy Act authorities.
Talk about a context-free thought process! That's the politest way I could think of to describe what you are saying.
I'm not seeing the point you are struggling to make. I doubt anyone else is, either.
boppers
(16,588 posts)It's public equipment, public networks, public emails.
If you want to be a whistle blower, get internet at your house and use your own laptop, or use a borrowed machine at a coffee shop, or whatever.
MADem
(135,425 posts)They were stalking people and reading, line for line, what they were writing. They weren't checking to be sure they weren't watching porn or playing solitaire, they were keylogging. You don't do that without very specific authorizations.
Further, computer security/oversight is the job of the IT arm of an organization, it is not the job of the leadership within the organization to spy on their workers.
The networks are not "public," one more time. If they were, you could log on to them, and you cannot. They are "government" and there is a distinction and a difference there. Nor are the emails "public"--if they were, you could read them at your leisure any time you please, and you cannot do that either.
Heads will roll over this, count on it.
boppers
(16,588 posts)First I've heard of keyloggers, though, and that would be a sign of incompetence, as what I had heard was logging their email, and for that, you just need to log their email server traffic, not the keyboard.
MADem
(135,425 posts)You can't say "I want all of Joe Blow's emails from date to date." You have to have a reason and a subject.
The software was installed on their computers in order to do copying of flash drives as well as keylogging, and the bosses were reading the stuff--not just what they were writing, but what they were writing in REAL TIME.
It was a complete abuse of the privacy act. I hope those heads roll soon.
boppers
(16,588 posts)I haven't read as such.
Sure, it could have read flash drives, once they made them part of a public-asset computer network. Again, I haven't seen any references to keylogging, and don't expect to, mostly because it's a total waste of resources, and is only useful for catching things like caps-lock morse code. They weren't chasing spies, they were chasing folks who were trying to get grants approved by whining about their research to lower-level flunkies....
...and now those folks seem to be whining that "OMG, my workplace can see what I did on my work computer!".
MADem
(135,425 posts)it would help if you bothered to click on the link and read the story before you kept doubling down. If you "haven't read as such" it's because you didn't bother to read the doggone article.
Really. Here, since you seem unable to be bothered to read the full story that is linked in the OP (and here's that very link again) : http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/us/fda-surveillance-of-scientists-spread-to-outside-critics.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp
Okay?
But wait, there's more:
They used a commercial software to do their dirty work:
And they "went rogue" to do it, because they were turned down by the agency who would have been responsible for an investigation, because that agency found no wrongdoing. That didn't stop them, though:
I understand government monitoring of communications on government workplace computers. These assclowns went WAY over the line, and they deserve to be fired for it.
boppers
(16,588 posts)Government computers, government networks.
FWIW, line-by-line isn't keylogging, it's auto-save, and in general, I don't trust the media to get anything tech right, so maybe I have blinders on.... It looks like the software company in question *does* do keylogging software, but that just seems like a waste of time, and maybe I give them more credit than they deserve.
MADem
(135,425 posts)with this issue and how government IT oversight is applied, so I will have to take my view over yours.
boppers
(16,588 posts)Maybe it's a matter of different policies in different arms of government, and different levels of security.
Example: Q clearance data and equipment gets *no* real-world exceptions for, oh, personal medical privacy, attorney-client privilege, etc... everything is assumed to be under surveillance, and it often is, because a single misplaced hard drive is a "National Security Threat", a single inappropriate packet on the network can be an attack.
A federal grain inspector, OTOH, is probably under much less scrutiny, and likely wouldn't be fired for writing a letter to their congressman on their work computer. The FDA is likely somewhere in between.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Nonetheless, the FDA leadership engaged in a rogue operation where they spied on members of the workforce, despite the Inspector General attached to the agency ABOVE them in the chain of command telling them that there was no "there" there.
They were also specifically told that the scientists and researchers had every right to communicate with members of Congress, and that, too, was ignored.
The whole thing stinks to high heaven...wrongful termination, intimidation of whistle-blowers...the morons who thought installing spyware on those computers was a good idea are probably regretting it, as Dick Cheney would say, "Big Time."
boppers
(16,588 posts)Either way.
Work for the Fed, expect *every email*, *every web page", *every document* on their computers to be their property, not yours, and definitely, not private.
MADem
(135,425 posts)They were retailiated against for lawfully communicating with Congress and others.
...The intercepted e-mails revealed, for instance, that a few of the scientists under surveillance were drafting a complaint in 2010 that they planned to take to the Office of Special Counsel. A short time later, before the complaint was filed, Dr. Smith and another complaining scientist were let go and a third was suspended.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/us/fda-surveillance-of-scientists-spread-to-outside-critics.html?hp&pagewanted=all
The only question that remains is, did GE Healthcare assist FDA in spying on those scientists and researchers? If they did, there's more Big Trouble to follow.
boppers
(16,588 posts)"may have crossed legal lines"
From your quotes.
"may have".
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Obama Admin Seeks Permission To Lie In Response To FOI Requests - Even To The COURTS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2185303
boppers
(16,588 posts)Can you post this "Obama Admin Seeks Permission To Lie" part?
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)but, no, I won't be doing that for you. Perhaps learning to read and follow links should precede trying to participate on a political discussion board.
I will also wait until you master the usage of "to," "too," and "two."
boppers
(16,588 posts)I woke up and couldn't figure out what the hell I was trying to say.... I gotta stop working 18 hour shifts.
boppers
(16,588 posts)This spat could be broken down as follows:
"I want to know about the government's program Orange".
"Can't tell you".
"Do you have an Orange"?
"Can't tell you".
"Does Orange exist"?
"Can't tell you".
It's not a lie to say "No, you don't have the access levels required to know whether or not something even exists or not"... It's a defense against brute-forcing the system.
bananas
(27,509 posts)including attorney-client communications,
whistle-blower complaints to Congress and
workplace grievances filed with the
government.
boppers
(16,588 posts)Be careful what you wish for.
MADem
(135,425 posts)boppers
(16,588 posts)They got caught, and are now screaming about it, because their "privacy" to lobby in secret was being captured.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Government employees speaking with government representatives about faults in a government agency is not "lobbying."
Trying to con a congressman into voting for a new road into an area where you plan to build a casino is lobbying.
I think you've pretty much showed your hand, here.
boppers
(16,588 posts)They were leaking confidential information to anybody who would listen, trying to lobby for changing the standards.
Typically, this happens when somebody has a financial interest in a competing product that would meet the changed standards... so, not roads, but millions and billions in sales of drugs and medical devices.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Words do have meanings, you know, and you are going very far afield indeed with your stretched definition of "lobbying."
boppers
(16,588 posts)In case you missed it: "A wide-ranging surveillance operation by the Food and Drug Administration against a group of its own scientists used an enemies list of sorts as it secretly captured thousands of e-mails that the disgruntled scientists sent privately to members of Congress, lawyers, labor officials, journalists and even President Obama, previously undisclosed records show"
MADem
(135,425 posts)Lobbyists are people paid by manufacturers of drugs, defense equipment, restaurant supplies, you name it, who "lobby" elected officials in order to persuade them to vote this way or that.
You are confusing reporting problems to the press and communicating those problems to elected officials with "lobbying," and your definition is off the mark. The scientists and researchers were not paid to tout a POV. They did it because they saw a problem and reported it.
boppers
(16,588 posts)"The scientists and researchers were not paid to tout a POV. "
You have no idea how this works.
MADem
(135,425 posts)boppers
(16,588 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)The ones approving the changes that harmed the public were the OTHER guys--the ones who were doing the spying and firing. The scientists didn't want patients getting fried. The issue here, specifically, was the safety and design of medical devices. The scientists opposed the changes that the bosses wanted. They felt the review process was "faulty."
So, if anyone had a financial interest here, it would be the ones desiring the change of standards--the keyloggers, the spies, the whistleblower-intimidators, who wanted new equipment--dangerous equipment--manufactured and sold.
Details in this paragraph from the OP link:
boppers
(16,588 posts)I think we're done.
PS: Don't eat Brazil Nuts.
MADem
(135,425 posts)bananas
(27,509 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)judesedit
(4,443 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Anyone who has an expectation of privacy on such a system is a fool.
judesedit
(4,443 posts)boppers
(16,588 posts)Gee, they might be observed? Color me shocked.
This is how it is *supposed* to work.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...is subject to monitoring.
bananas
(27,509 posts)including attorney-client communications,
whistle-blower complaints to Congress and
workplace grievances filed with the
government.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)sendero
(28,552 posts).... it isn't the communications of the scientists involved strictly speaking that is the issue here. it is that replies from congresspersons and the like were monitored also.
You might make a case for the former, the latter is going to be a tough sell.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)bananas
(27,509 posts)including attorney-client communications,
whistle-blower complaints to Congress and
workplace grievances filed with the
government.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Else, how does the company's mail server distinguish between these kinds of email and others?
MADem
(135,425 posts)There are ways for the IT people to monitor usage, and they usually do it on a random basis, unless they find someone downloading porn or what-have-you. The IT boss doesn't tattle to the administrative or operational bosses, so long as the communications meet, dare I say, TOS!
Playing World of Warcraft? Bad. Communicating via email or transmitting work product to another .gov entity, like a Congressman? None of IT's business.
bananas
(27,509 posts)judesedit
(4,443 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Services told them to cut the shit, that there was no evidence of wrongdoing, and no investigation (the purview of which belongs to HHS IG--not a couple of admin bosses buying off the shelf spy software) was warranted.
They didn't like what their boss told them, so they went and did an investigation on their own.
MADem
(135,425 posts)They turned down the big cheese's request for a criminal investigation citing lack of evidence. In other words, the bosses of these idiots told them NO, and they did it ANYWAY.
The leadership "went rogue" and did their OWN investigation to try to save their own asses and intimidate whistleblowers who would get them in trouble.
MADem
(135,425 posts)those FDA assclowns should have taken them at their word. The IG refused to do a criminal investigation and that pissed off these bullies at the FDA.
Instead, they started up their own investigation outside criminal investigative channels, in order to protect their own jobs as a consequence of their own misdeeds.
They are in big trouble.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/us/politics/inquiry-sought-of-extensive-fda-surveillance.html
Senator Charles E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa, said in a letter Monday to Dr. Margaret Hamburg, the F.D.A. commissioner, that he had learned from an unnamed source that the agencys general counsel had signed off on the program in writing.
Any whistleblower who uses an organization's equipment and software to do private communications is naiive in the extreme. You need to use your personal stuff that has never been connected to the organization's network, and you need to use strong encryption for private communications. The FBI and NSA make it difficult and complex to communicate privately, but it can be done.
may3rd
(593 posts)Why doesn't the admin put a stop to these spam checkers?
judesedit
(4,443 posts)is for. To make sure employees are not bullshitting around on company time and not sending out sensitive or derogatory information against the department/company/agency. Since when did the Food and Drug Administration become some secret entity? I'ts a government agency paid for with tax dollars? Is it because Food and Drugs don't belong in the same agency anyway??? GMO's anyone??? This is non-news as far as I'm concerned. The president and congress SHOULD know what's going on over there.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)cstanleytech
(26,351 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)In fact, the IG said Don't Do It.