Poll: The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
Source: CNBC/Globescan Survey
snip:
The President is once again calling for all for higher taxes on the wealthy and criticizing his super-rich opponent. Pundits increasingly blame Romney’s lagging poll numbers on voter attitudes toward his large wealth and privilege.
Add to that the daily scandals on Wall Street and business and you’d think Americans' feelings toward the wealthy were harkening back to the pitchfork days of the 1930s.
But polls and surveys show that Americans attitude toward the rich hasn’t really changed much over the years. Most Americans still have positive views of the wealthy and hope to become rich one day themselves.
A new survey from GlobeScan shows that 58 percent of Americans agree with the statement that “the rich deserve their wealth.” That’s actually higher than it was in 2008, before the economic crisis, Wall Street bailouts and the Occupy movement....
Read more: http://www.cnbc.com/id/48160711
I cannot believe this poll at all.
I don't get it.
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rfranklin
(13,200 posts)and pulled themselves up by their bootstraps.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)
And the rest of us have their bootprints on OUR faces.
Oh, and...they worked harder than 99% of the"? Really? You actually BELIEVE that? You'd make that argument to everybody who's being forced to do overtime at 10$/hr or less? Everybody who has to work 70 hours a week to have the purchasing power you got by working 40 hours a week in 1980?
Where the hell do you get off insulting almost the entire country?
Nine
(1,741 posts)Response to Ken Burch (Reply #81)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
gtar100
(4,192 posts)Because it's impossible to do in reality. And that fact goes right over their heads when they spout that nonsense.
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)they do not deserve to have the tax brackets rigged in their favor, and all the other 'perks' they get from being VIP (I say that with a smirk)
I don't believe this poll and I'd like to see how the question was phrased.
I don't begrudge the rich their money, I do begrudge any who think they are better than others because of it.
Nice try, cnbc. To be expected, I guess.
liberalmike27
(2,479 posts)I don't mind rich people. There have always been rich people.
But now we've got ridiculously rich people.
There is a concept of "too much, and too little." In fact, as most of us have seen and understood, the fact that a few hundred, or a few thousand even, have so fantastically much wealth, and the accompanying and directly related fact, that 50 million of us, working and the unemployed are so fantastically poor, is the reason our economy now sucks.
When you can afford to give millions to a campaign, then you've got too much money.
If you can afford to throw your kid a birthday party that costs $200,000, then you've got too much money.
If you can build your dog a $300,000 doghouse, without a flinch, then you've got too much money.
There is a place where money becomes power--we need to find that, and truncate the top. By now in the 1929 depression we were hitting higher tax rates, not allowing the rich to carry all of their wealth in generational ways.
primavera
(5,191 posts)There is a finite amount of wealth in any country; it doesn't just come from the magic money tree. The more that goes to the rich, the less there is left over for everyone else to live on. Ultimately, the purpose of an economy is not to make a tiny minority obscenely rich at the expense of everyone else, neither is it to necessarily even be the most efficient way of generating profit. Rather, the whole point of having an economy is to provide for its participants, i.e., all of them. There can obviously be some inequalities, but when 80% of the entire economy's wealth is being concentrated in the hands of 1% of the population, leaving a third of the population in poverty and the remainder struggling, the economy is no longer achieving its purpose and raison d'etre because it is not providing for its participants.
former9thward
(32,114 posts)Wealth is not finite. It can be created buy adding value, either by labor or technology or intellectually, to material or products. If wealth was finite then we would all be desperately poor given we have 10 times the population as the colonies.
primavera
(5,191 posts)There is a finite amount of wealth at any given time. You are of course quite right: economies do grow - at a rate of about 3-5% annually. Individual returns on investment of 50-100% do not reflect economic growth, but rather wealth transfer from one individual to another. Every economist, left and right, would agree that the vast, overwhelming majority of economic activity in the US, on a magnitude of something like 90%+, has nothing to do with wealth generation, but on wealth redistribution in which one party gains and another party loses.
former9thward
(32,114 posts)All of us -- not just the 1% or any other arbitrary number you may wish to put in. That is because of wealth generation.
Sterling
(7,730 posts)that I see as a problem. When we allow corporations to be "people" and equate unlimited political donations as free speech it takes away from the rights of others. What is the old saying about freedom? Your right to swing your arm stops at my nose? I really do think it is that kind of issue.
qwlauren35
(6,152 posts)But I believe that rich people should be philanthropic, and spread the wealth. I don't mind a $200,000 party. As long as the money went into the pockets of working Americans. But I do hope that these Americans will spend their money in America. American tourist industries need their dollars. I hope these rich people will hire Americans for their manufacturing, their services, their consumerism. I hope we make some cars that they would want to buy. A Hummer, maybe.
I'm not even sure that I mind the campaign dollars that they spend, if the money goes toward hiring young people as campaign workers, and Internet developers, buying ads on local radio stations, buying paraphernalia from local print shops. Using American ad agencies.
I want to believe that there are Americans who are able to cater to the markets of the rich and famous. To make their clothes, their bags, their cars, their $300,000 doghouses. Be nannies and au pairs to their children. Cook their food and cater their parties.
What I don't want to see is rich people banking outside of America, investing outside of America, buying goods and services outside of America, and sending their manufacturing outside of America. If Romney could show that HE was creating jobs in America, I'd be impressed. But he hasn't... and probably can't. And I think that's pathetic.
DBoon
(22,414 posts)you have too much money
appleannie1
(5,074 posts)
Martin Eden
(12,881 posts)I would also question how "wealthy" is defined; at the high-end are people whose wealth compounds itself without any bootstrap-pulling. IMO nobody deserves to own five extravagant mansions around the country, as does the CEO of the corporation I work for.
On the other hand, my immediate boss (a senior VP) likely earns 3x what I do and IMO he earns every penny of it. The man has a lot of responsibilities, works long hours, and does a helluva job. But he's a pauper compared to the CEO, who gained his position when his private equity firm acquired us in a leveraged buyout less than 3 years ago.
Good point. I don't believe that any rational person would claim they don't deserve what they earn. As Elizabeth Warren famously observed, though, wealth is not amassed in isolation. "You built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea-God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."
randome
(34,845 posts)
wordpix
(18,652 posts)Rich folk should definitely pay their fair share of taxes. They're using highways, bridges, etc. more than the average guy to truck their stuff if they're at all involved with commodities and products bought and sold in the American market.
permatex
(1,299 posts)most of them earned it, what I do have a problem with is not paying there fair share of taxes.
MustBeTheBooz
(270 posts)That's what pisses me off!
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,927 posts)Consider most TV shows: They are mostly about rich people, have been for years. Remember "Dallas" and "Falcon Crest"? Remember "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous"? Even the characters in most sitcoms, which are supposedly about ordinary people, live much higher off the hog than if they were real. We read "People" magazine and snoop into the lives of celebrities, who are rich. The cultural bias toward wealth has brainwashed us. We don't hate them; we want to be like them. We buy Powerball tickets (thereby paying the tax on people who are bad at math), actually believing maybe we could win. We think that someday, somehow, we will be rich, too - so we don't want to do anything that might be contrary to the interests of the rich.
We, collectively, will never light the torches or hone the pitchforks. We'll just sit in front of our flat screen TVs and watch shows about rich people and think about how much we want to be like them. Even though it will never happen.
villager
(26,001 posts)n/t
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)The whole Gordon Gecko generation run amok. Not really surprising. People thirst for freedom and the only way to be free in America anymore is to be rich. Otherwise your an expendable resource to be overworked, underpaid and left to die if the pollution caused by all the corporate dreams lands on your home and leads to your sickness.
The saddest part is that so many know this and yet still support Wall St & corporations. Still invest more in Exxon's future than ours. Still care more about money than principles.
teddy51
(3,491 posts)
aquart
(69,014 posts)Incitatus
(5,317 posts)Koch brothers being the perfect example. They have so much wealth they can do whatever they want and they choose to exploit the lower classes for more wealt. It's like it's just a game they don't give a damn about anything or anyone but accumulating as many points ($) as possible.
geardaddy
(24,931 posts)There's one poster with the handle "Mitt-for-brains"
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Plus getting weighed down in pessimism zaps your strength and will to live.
Then there is the possibility that the people who really do feel helpless and hopeless have dropped so far out of the system that they are invisible to the polls, whereas the people who have landlines, mostly older people, are not suffering more than an inconvenience.
YMMV
fasttense
(17,301 posts)The secret of grand fortunes without apparent cause is a crime forgotten, for it was properly done. ~ Honoré de Balzac, Le Père Goriot (1835)
The rich no more deserve their wealth than a bank robber deserves the money he stole.
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)...the fact that most likely they will never have the chance to become wealthy, because the wealthy will not allow it.
The Horatio Alger myth is definitely alive and well.
At the most basic level, I have no problem with people enjoying the fruits of their hard work and talent. However, my problem lies with the extreme lengths some will go to to get that wealth, and increase it, while denying others their chance to share in the so-called "American Dream."
earthside
(6,960 posts)The fact is that the vast majority of Americans are going backwards with little or no prospects even in the mid-term future of changing direction.
But there are very few in this country who will tell that uncomfortable truth to the American people ... so they just go on believing the Horatio Alger, American Dream myth.
As Chris Hedges has noted, we don't really have a 'left' in this country anymore ... what pass for left these days is very centrist if not center-right.
The elite one percent are very good at "catapulting" their propaganda (well, duh, they own all the mass media) -- and they now pretty much own all levels of government, too. The truth is that Pres. Obama is a center-right president at best, just look at his economic advisors and officials and his attitude towards labor unions and so-called 'free-trade'.
Until it sinks in to most Americans that they are being screwed, nothing is going to change in the good ol' USA and we will move further and further into an out-and-out plutocracy.
ProfessionalLeftist
(4,982 posts)
handmade34
(22,759 posts)no way! all excessive wealth comes from exploitation of resources or people (taking advantage of lax regulation)
DotGone
(182 posts)
liberal N proud
(60,349 posts)And those that didn't earn either stole it or got it from mommy and daddy.
Is that deserving? 
zzaapp
(531 posts)liberal N proud
(60,349 posts)But mostly, they all had some thing going for them either in power or it was given to them.
The common American thinks that someday they will be rich is only dreaming of the grander that some have achieved. At one time there were many self made millionaires, but these days a millionaire does not mean one is wealthy. It's about how many millions you have now.
zzaapp
(531 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"I guess that I'm 1% of 1%..."
I imagine most individuals in that bracket would rationalize the very same about themselves...
liberal N proud
(60,349 posts)zzaapp
(531 posts)I take it that you didn't die in an auto accident the year before you became successful? I guess unknown, uncontrollable factors just don't apply to your life due completely to your optimistic attitude. It's above all physical laws? Excuse me. Go back to Olympus and give counsel there. We have to live in the mortal world, where lucky and unlucky things happen all the time. Or better yet, go to Vegas and prove to me that your optimism overcomes luck.
You might think saying luck had nothing to do with it awes people. Actually, it confirms you're a fool. As Herman Cain showed me, you can be stupid and still make a lot of money, but you can be luckier these days if you share the right ideology and if you're just mindlessly ruthless enough.
zzaapp
(531 posts)caseymoz
(5,763 posts)I didn't call you a name.
zzaapp
(531 posts)"You might think saying luck had nothing to do with it awes people. Actually, it confirms you're a fool."
Well, it does. Nobody's above luck, and it takes a pretty basic misjudgment about the universe to fail to see that. No career is made without it. Yes, you might get educated and prepare, and stay disciplined, but those are just ways to maximize your luck.
Fact: Bill Gates became the richest man in the world because he, by chance, ran into the right guy at lunch. He did a lot right before and after, but without that, we would likely have never known his name.
zzaapp
(531 posts)You make your own luck?
liberal N proud
(60,349 posts)It may have been the luck you had in getting a loan to start a business, or to find a great location for that business, maybe that the customer came.
Maybe you climbed the corporate ladder, you don't know how lucky you are that someone picked up your resume and gave you the opportunity.
Health is another area where lady luck treated you well.
It is amazing when people who have not had the best of luck will tell you they are lucky. So many who have seen the best side of luck, never giver the credit she deserves claiming all the glory for themselves.
zzaapp
(531 posts)Yes, there is SOME luck involved (health), but just to clarify.
I struck out on my own many years ago without the benefit
of a "corporate ladder" or for that matter a "loan" We scraped through on rice and beans and credit cards..lol. What I meant by Karma, is that we have always tried to conduct our business in an honest, ethical manner, and avoided the short cuts and improper business decisions. I believe that those sorts of actions come back to you many times over.
I am curious as to why I have received all of the vitriolic posts?
I wasn't trying to brag. I'm just an eternal optimist.
liberal N proud
(60,349 posts)You pay with the credit card, the credit card company pays your debt and they you pay them interest. Sound like a loan to me, one with high interest usually and not a good business plan.
Not knowing what your self made business is, but I am sure you still relied on customers of some sort who needed/wanted your service or product.
No customer, no business, you owe them a great deal.
zzaapp
(531 posts)I LOVE my customers.
liberal N proud
(60,349 posts)zzaapp
(531 posts)
Harriety
(298 posts)
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)but not at the expensive of the rest of us - it seems we have to get screwed over just so these people can keep their wealth.
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)I have no problem with wealthy people -- I used to be one. I have a problem with people getting obscenely wealthy by trashing America, putting millions of their fellow citizens in harm's way by exploiting foreign workers. And not paying their fair share to run the Country.
Maybe if the fools that did the survey gave some facts like the tax rate on the wealthiest in 1950, 1980, and now. and maybe that less than 1% of Americans now control 35% of the wealth, as opposed to 9% in the 80s, and THEN asked them the same questions.. or asked if they felt that being wealthy meant that you should pay LESS, not more, in taxes, I might be impressed.
This BS idea that democrats hate wealthy people... is just that: BS. I don't hate them, I just don't want them to trash their Country and their fellow citizens by enriching India and China. Frankly, if those folks hope to be rich someday, then I suggest they move to China or India, where the likes of Bain have created a burgeoning upper middle class.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Before the civil war, only 3% of the people owned slaves in the South. However, most of them fought for the confederacy because the remaining 97% optimistically hoped to own slaves some day.
This is not different.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Are sports players really worth 10 million a year, which they are paid even if they do not play?
Are hedge fund managers (who run up the prices of commodities on speculative trades) worth a salary of hundreds of millions per year?
Did Bernie Madoff earn his fortune?
Consider the source of this question (CNBC). CNBC has done their part to protect the corruption at the highest levels of power.
JaneQPublic
(7,113 posts)"To whom much is given, much is expected."
That expectation of the wealthy seems to have died away with the Carnegies, the Kennedys, the Roosevelts, etc.
Now we appear to have the "Greed is Good" generation of uber-rich. They want it all, they want to keep it all, and the one who dies with the most wins.
BOG PERSON
(2,916 posts)
DaveJ
(5,023 posts)I'm not "rich" in terms of the article, but I can admit I was lucky my family wasn't poor, I was lucky to be born in the U.S. and not a 2nd or 3rd world country, I'm lucky I haven't had a debilitating illness, and totally lucky my profession is doing well at the moment.
I see a lot of others who work with me, who work harder than I do, who make much less. Many are not here because they got laid off.
It's troubling to think that people are such sheep. That they believe the rich, in any way, are better (read, "deserve it"
.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Thank you for putting it into words.
I've got a thing against the warmonger wealthy...so I sound like a broken record.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2596898
At heart, these imperialistic types made money the old fashioned way. They stole it.
zzaapp
(531 posts)That the amount of wealth in any given country is finite.
In other words, pretend that all of the money and wealth were an apple pie. Most people think that if someone gets a
bigger slice, well he must have stolen it or taken it at the expense of someone else. In other words (there's only so much pie to go around.) This is simply untrue. Wealth is
created (as are pies), and if money is used correctly, the size of the pie can grow accordingly.
DaveJ
(5,023 posts)n/t
zzaapp
(531 posts)And I don't make 10,000 times what my employees make.
LOLLOL....not even close.
DaveJ
(5,023 posts)Talking about the theory of how the pie can grow has no bearing on the typical person's life.
zzaapp
(531 posts)How dare you make an assumption like that?
I care enough about my employees to pay them well, give them security and help them support their families.
What have YOU done lately for "The workers"?
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)zzaapp
(531 posts)If I told you how much I pay out of my company proceeds
for health insurance, you would be more careful with your cavalier assumptions. And it's going to go up.
zzaapp
(531 posts)caseymoz
(5,763 posts)from every business owner and manager? Or even a large proportion of them?
Stop trying to turn counter-arguments into personal attacks.
Ter
(4,281 posts)If a worker makes $40,000 a year, he's saying the CEO makes 400 million a year. A top of the line CEO makes 5-30 million a year. Considering A-Rod makes 30 million, it sounds about right.
If my math is correct, then that means the Steinbrenner
family makes 300 billion a year? That can't be right.
Ter
(4,281 posts)Sometime in the mid 90's, Gates was making 4 million dollars a day. However, he wasn't just a CEO, he was the founder as well.
zzaapp
(531 posts)caseymoz
(5,763 posts)Maybe you just think of yourself as being in that class? It does fit in with your optimism. Maybe you're too ethical to ever reach it and your "luck," which has nothing to do with your life so far, is about to turn bad? Just saying, you're lucky if luck has had nothing to do with your success so far (actually a rank absurdity, but I mean luck you can't deny).
zzaapp
(531 posts)caseymoz
(5,763 posts)By that I mean optimism no matter what, at all cost. Yes, that's unhealthy. Because to maintain it, you have to misinform yourself.
However, it's healthy if you actually have something feel optimistic about and you don't force yourself into heavy denial to keep yourself in that state. You will do so if you make it a goal. It shouldn't be used as an article of faith or a kind of magic that brings good things to you. That is very unhealthy, and manipulative. It's unhealthy if you refuse to consider anything other than what makes you feel good.
Pessimism is healthy, too, provided that it's appropriate to what's happening. It becomes unhealthy when you can't stop looking at unhappy things, and then problem there is more your compulsion about where to look than the pessimism. It's also a problem if it depresses and cripples you. However, sometimes facts call for pessimism. To reach the moon, don't forget the US Space Program developed Murphy's Law. Assume what can go wrong will, and counter it or prepare for it. They couldn't have done the same with a "feel good" attitude.
There's nothing immoral or counterproductive about pessimism. In fact, a good thing about it is you're more likely to be pleasantly surprised if you have low expectations .
People feel emotions for reasons. There is a biological reason why you feel happiness, sadness, fear, anger, and so on. When you try to force emotions despite anything that's actually going on in the world, make feeling good moral and feeling bad immoral, you're in danger of being deceived or misinforming yourself.
zzaapp
(531 posts)
treestar
(82,383 posts)Enjoy your stay.
a. I don't feel the need to prove anything.
b. One person can make a difference.
c. So, far, I have enjoyed my stay very much.
d. Why do you seem so hostile?
caseymoz
(5,763 posts). . . if you don't feel the need to prove anything? I take it, then, that you want to persuade without any burden of proof or responsibility. I'm thinking that b and c are just as deceiving and self-deceived, and as for d, after remarks like, "are you high?" say something else.
You come here with no facts, just personal claims that aren't under any oath, can't be checked, and, regardless, apply only to you and your self-evaluated ethics and contribution to society, which are as dependent on your worldview as the proposition you're striving to demonstrate. It's something that any psychopath or troll can do. Or shyster.
I'm not saying you're one of those, but your arguments have that much credibility as that so far.
zzaapp
(531 posts)I came here for spirited, good natured social intercourse and to
absorb some varying view points. Is that not allowed?
Let's be friends.
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)Let's not be enemies or friends, yet.
zzaapp
(531 posts)Hotler
(11,470 posts)what company you are ceo of, how much you make, how much does the average worker on the floor make and what services and/or products the company provide/makes.
Thank you
zzaapp
(531 posts)caseymoz
(5,763 posts)Irritation is a natural response here, more pure than socially enforced happiness, and the complacency of blind, mindless faith. And aggravation is a healthy response to your manipulative, vacuous, ill-informed arguments. At best they're based on, "I'm doing great, and I think I do good, so any other fact in the world is irrelevant."
Maybe people are fine before you pull this shit and you just always get a bad sample? Because you come here with nothing but empty personal assurances and brain-damaging optimism, with nothing but the claim of a good paycheck to back it up, and expect that to be persuasive. How can you not anticipate people would get nettled about it?
And you know, even after I've told you, I know you're going to disregard the previous two paragraphs, because your question was only rhetorical. You didn't want an answer. You wanted to make your point, which was "I'm better because I always feel good, and you're wrong because I've managed to aggravate you now." You're as interested in what I've said as you are in any fact.
zzaapp
(531 posts)Why would you assume that I wasn't? I am very open minded, and love the verbal thrust and parry of all forms of debate.
Let's be friends.
BOG PERSON
(2,916 posts)there is still a definite amount of pie. at one point the pie may grow, at another point it may shrink. at a time there may be more or less filling (i.e. the innards of the international proleteriat) in the pie.
zzaapp
(531 posts)That is why it is so important to use money wisely.
liberal N proud
(60,349 posts)Damn, the ones that I have seen all get smaller as pieces are taken out by the fat cat that ate it.
zzaapp
(531 posts)who wanted a piece of pie help to BAKE it...it would indeed grow.
Ashgrey77
(236 posts)Wealth is based off of available resources is it not. It could be land, people, paper money, precious minerals, etc. NONE of that is limitless. What happens when you bake the proverbial pie and everyone eats it and then theres nothing left for anyone else. Again I will reiterate, resources are not infinite, NONE of them are. Nothing on this world is "infinite", not even time its self.
BOG PERSON
(2,916 posts)and then we must erase the various recipes for pie from the collective memory. history demands it.
zzaapp
(531 posts)American ingenuity IS limitless, hence, anyone who is inclined to
dream big can expand the "proverbial pie"
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 21, 2012, 07:32 AM - Edit history (1)
It is limited by time and space. Unless you're saying that human beings are Gods. This is irrefutable. We are subject to every natural limit. A term like, "American ingenuity is limitless," is utterly meaningless, except as feel-good platitude that cripples thinking and mutilates the mind as thoroughly as a lobotomy. Or you could think of it as a heretical form of spiritual salvation. Just pretend that the pie has more and it will be so. Yeah, this is rational, objective thinking here.
Do you have anything factual to say? Or are you spreading the word of hysterical optimism?
zzaapp
(531 posts)liberal N proud
(60,349 posts)Take the cake
enki23
(7,791 posts)There always has been, and always will be a limited supply of natural resources, labor, skills and time.
zzaapp
(531 posts)zzaapp
(531 posts)caseymoz
(5,763 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 21, 2012, 12:42 PM - Edit history (1)
First, capitalism doesn't work miracles. The fact that it's an economic theory tells you it's a system for dealing with scarcity. And no, not even capitalism changes that argument.
Second, you use the term finite as though capitalism creates infinity. Do you mean to say it creates infinite resources and wealth? That is fantasy.
Third, and worst, even to suppose the first two were true, what if the pie grows at two percent and the wealthy are taking ten? The question of whether people are assuming finite wouldn't even enter into it, would it?
What you do for your workers is irrelevant. The very basis of your thinking is flawed, and evasive of the real questions.
I'm more tired of the "expanding pie" theory than I am of "trickle down." If you're so intelligent that you run a big company and do so much for the workers, you can think about you're saying and not pass off such bullshit as though it rebuts anything pertinent.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Or did the poll ask if they're OK with wealth that comes from something nefarious and damaging to living things?
Most people have nothing against rich people until they find out if their wealth comes from something that hurts those people.
The poll is obviously lacking as far as I can see.
Rich people deserving their wealth and rich people deserving tax breaks are two completely different things. Of course, there are some who would use this poll to conflate the two. Perhaps that's is why the question was phrased that way.
DocMac
(1,628 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)I'm going to be rich someday and I don'ts want anyone taking it from me Jeebus!
Supported by virtually every merican.
-p
ErikJ
(6,335 posts)92% Of Americans Are Socialists They Just Don’t Know It--April 2011
Wealth inequality is as extreme today as it was during the Great Depression years. In real terms, the wealthy hold the majority of this nation’s wealth and income. The problem in this country is mass disillusionment. In a recent study by Duke and Harvard University they found many Americans believe that the top 20% of our nation’s wealthiest own 60% of the wealth. The real figure is the top 20% own 84% of our nation’s wealth and it is increasing every year.
When the respondents were asked to pick an unlabeled pie chart “How much should the top 20% own?” 92% of them preferred the Swedish model of income distribution over the current American economic model. The Swedish economic model, which is the top 20% own 36% of the nation’s wealth.
Here is the actual study.
Americans Prefer Sweden
http://www.politicususa.com/american-socialists.html
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I got into a masssive fight over the weekend w/ my quite wealthy sister and her husband who are rabid republicans (we usually try to avoid politics). They really believe this and see nothing wrong w/ the rich doing whatever they can to make as much money as they can and avoiding paying as little taxes as possible. It was like talking to a brick wall. I cut the conversation short. It was an excercise in futility.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I often had conversations I swear politically, a lot of us are misinformed in general and Dems are often blamed for Republicans actions. I sense that they would be liberals if they were informed about policy choices.
Ter
(4,281 posts)So many people I work with said it looked like they were jealous and didn't want to work. I don't share this view, but many do.
zzaapp
(531 posts)Unfortunately, perception is reality. It's difficult for many people to sit there, chained behind a desk, and watch people
march around and say. "hey, give me some of your money"
as you, I don't necessarily share that view, but that was the perception for many people.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"So many people I work with said it looked like they were jealous and didn't want to work...."
My own anecdotal experience was precisely the opposite...
Kteachums
(331 posts)I am not jealous of the rich. I wish I had a little more to help my children. But, I made it through college, have a Master's Degree in education. I have been one of America's public school teachers. I am on the Romney hit list. He can hit me with a billion dollars I'll take it and still vote Obama. My children all through college. My last one still striving to make it through. They don't have the advantages of it all being paid on easy street. There is a whole (hole) lot of difference between the Middle Class and the rich and the Middle Class and the poor.
Don't tell me this and in the same sentence do away with food stamps for the poor. I have seen the children of food stamps and it isn't pretty. Don't ever tell me the rich man deserves his tax credit and the poor man deserves his food stamps to be cut. No, no, no, especially when the rich man has had much to do with whether the poor man works or not. Cut the salaries of those playboys in the House but, don't cut the foodstamps of America's poor. Somebody has to do something about those crazies in the House. Is there a Democratic God out there?
When we talk of the rich we can put them in categories, also. There are those that are truly out there helping others and there are those who make money off of the grief of others. I believe Americans can see the difference.
zzaapp
(531 posts)those in the teaching profession. It's not something that I could ever do.
But I have never liked putting people in catagories. It paints with too broad a brush. It's like saying that there are two catagories of white men
1. Those that can dance
2. Those who can't
It leaves an awful lot of room in the middle.
just my thoughts.
LACarMan
(45 posts)My brother, who is 7 years older than me, is what some would call rich. He didn't get it from our parents. In fact, he grew up in the same house as me. He went to the same high school as me and then went on to college, like me. Now he owns 3 houses in South Florida, one of which is a ranch with a guest house by the pool house.
I would call that rich, in fact, I would call that wealthy.
He earned it. He had no advantage over me other than the fact that he worked his ass off and I partied. I don't resent him, or his wife and 2 sons, when I am short on my property taxes. I am sure his property taxes well exceed my mortgage.
Steerpike
(2,692 posts)work hard...don't party and show up every day rarin to go. The are still broke in debt and dancing on the needle...
The rich need to pay their taxes...
treestar
(82,383 posts)do the poor deserve to be poor?
Or do the middle class deserve to be middle class? That's all they deserve, not great wealth.
Where do people get the idea they will be wealthy one day? True delusion on the part of most.
may3rd
(593 posts)Seems the poll is skewed
carla
(553 posts)because most Americans don't believe that acquisition of wealth is a vice. They object somewhat to graft, crony-capitalism, profiteering, cartels, price-fixing, crooked banking and investment strategies and instruments...but they all hedge their bets that they will one day have a bigger slice of the pie (through their own efforts, mind you), they wish to protect wealth because they think they will one day be part of that group...what a sad commentary on a society that has afforded great wealth, that not many are willing to really look at how fortunes are being made. It isn't nice.
judesedit
(4,443 posts)e. So there.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)If someone asked me that question and I had an opportunity to request clarification before answering, I'd have a lot of questions.
Some people deserve whatever amount of wealth they have, because they worked honestly for it, or because the wealth is a product of some natural talent that they have put to use. I don't have a problem with a fine artist, musician, writer, scientist, doctor, teacher, or athlete having a lot of wealth.
Some people have wealth that they did not earn, and do not appreciate the value of. Do they "deserve" what they have? I think it depends on exactly what you mean by deserving. I know some people who stumbled into or were handed a lot of money. That doesn't necessarily mean they don't "deserve" it.
I know a man who won $32 million on a $5 lottery ticket. Does he deserve that money? I don't really know. He's a very nice guy and has done some good things with his windfall.
People who have a lot of money because they lied, cheated, or stole it definitely do not deserve it. I think most of us would agree with that.
Some people deserve a lot more than they have but have been victims of bad luck, or of crimes.
I don't believe a thoughtful person can give a simple answer to the question.
randome
(34,845 posts)It's human nature -in the macrocosm- to take things as far as you can go.
But 'deserve' is dependent on what the law allows. And let's face it, Congress has fallen down on the job when it comes to passing common sense laws and tax regulations.
If someone earned their money illegally, then there are legal methods to pursue that.
But earning money by taking advantage of lax regulations and illogical loopholes? It's hard to fault anyone for doing that since our representative 'leaders' say it's okay to do so.
Sterling
(7,730 posts)Not sure where I heard that but it seems to be somewhat true. In most cases it takes some kind of cutting corners or bending the rules to create big profits, especially quickly. Not that that is a hard and fast rule but there is a lot of evidence that it is pretty common.
zzaapp
(531 posts)caseymoz
(5,763 posts). . . money is power. A billion dollars is a lot of power. Power is very well known to corrupt. This is born out in psychology and neurology. If somebody's used to a billion dollars worth of power, it's fair to presume they have grown or are growing corrupt. A billion dollars can hire a lot of assassins.
So, I'm afraid with our disparity of wealth, we have created a class that is guaranteed to be corrupt.
And, at the very least, why should you entrust somebody with billions of dollars worth of power without questioning?
One quality of corruption is an inability to see any pertinent facts outside yourself. You certainly have done that so far.
zzaapp
(531 posts)I am all ABOUT pertinent facts, I just didn't see any.
Let's be friends.
otohara
(24,135 posts)no one is worth some of the ungodly amounts of money being paid.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)My first job as a lawyer was working as an associate for a personal injury firm. The partners were as crooked as it gets, taking cash under the table for referrals to doctors on which they paid no taxes. They ended up opening another business to launder a great deal of cash. It was common practice at the time in the personal injury-work comp fields of injury practice. I quit that job in disgust.
Someone who makes money as a parasite like these guys or Romney don't earn it in my opinion. If they do more than shift money from the pockets of others to their own and actually create something and bring something new into the world whether as a scientist, engineer, filmmaker, or musician, for example, then I tip my hat to them and their wealth.
midnight
(26,624 posts)a different story...
madville
(7,413 posts)I keep seeing people say the wealthy need to pay their "fair share" in taxes. That's a slippery slope since the bottom 50% generally don't pay federal income tax already so their share is 0%. The government will always need more money, increased revenue will not fix our system because there isn't enough out there.
I actually make money on my federal income taxes. I had $3,500 withheld all last year and got a "refund" for $7,700 so I made $4,200 from the taxpayers. My dad and brother on the other hand are both executives at the same company, they told me awhile back they both pay around $50,000 a year in federal income taxes and I wouldn't call them rich. They get extremely aggravated at the thought of having to pay even more since they see it as they are the only ones paying as it is, I like poking them about it for fun.
booley
(3,855 posts)The problem isn't being rich.
The right keeps trying (and too often succeeding) in framing it that way.
But the problem isn't being wealthy.
It's becomeing super wealthy at the expense of everyone not as lucky.
luv_mykatz
(441 posts) I don't get it either. At all! Sigh...
and-justice-for-all
(14,765 posts)of course the people that they poll are going to say that they deserve their wealth, and actually no id saying that they do not deserve it. What is the point is that we want to go back to Clinton era taxation, that is all.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)CNBC is "unabashedly pro-investor".
Which, of course, means they're pretty much one giant anti-government, anti-Obama, anti-Democrats ad.
From commentators to guests, it's pretty much the bottom-of-the-pool right-wing slime and shit peddlers, and the people that watch this station are right there along with them. They believe the Horatio Alger myths lovingly; thus the dumbfounding conclusion to this poll.
Ask people who don't watch TV news and you just may get a very different response.
Marooned
(79 posts)many did work long hours and give up many other things in life with the drive to succeed in making money in their careers. I'm not including those who acquired their wealth through the magic of being from the right sperm. However I do despise the tax sustem that has been rigged in their favor by their "bought and paid for" Congress critters of both parties. Pay your FAIR share!
cstanleytech
(26,343 posts)have been doing.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)
Lex
(34,108 posts)
sendero
(28,552 posts).... may deserve their wealth, but they do not deserve the right to buy our government so they can tilt the playing field ever more in their favor.
Trillo
(9,154 posts)Growing up, I was taught that hard work would be rewarded. That lesson was reinforced in so many places, at home from the parents, at school, at work, on TV, in books, that it would seem to be highly unlikely to be wrong. These lessons always seem geared toward young people, lessons taught to underage folks when it is considered lawful by the authorities to not pay for labor (quite magnificent hypocrisy).
There are some science studies out there of old people, near death, who are interviewed for their life lessons and any regrets they may have. Work is frequently mentioned near the top of the list. Old folks would nearly unanimously work less hard, and spend more time in enjoyable activities. It could be Kubler-Ross's studies.
Basically, we've been propagandized, and the propagadizers have all lined up their ducks in a row so the hard-work ethic is effectively implanted. It's very difficult to admit that all that youthful labor doing what we were told was based upon lies. It seems much easier to believe life is like a casino where a few folks strike it rich from "their" work, and your rewards are "just around the next corner".
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)Wealth disparity is too complex an issue to boil down into one sentence like that. Plus, it's ambiguous, because almost nobody disagrees that a person who does honest, peaceful work shouldn't be rewarded. Also, people believe the principle of innocent till proven guilty.
So, there's no way you could get a clear idea from this question. Instead, ask them whether having one percent of the people own fifty percent of the wealth and property is a good thing. Ask them if anybody could possibly do a billion dollars worth of work. Ask them if people should earn money just from having money. Ask them questions like that.
I bet you get a completely different picture of people's thinking on the issue, one that actually sounds a lot more liberal.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Mostly because of "deserve". I don't know what they most of them have done to get into that and I'm not the person to decide.
Also because it can happen in a whim, lucky choices. They can all lose it all on a whim.
I also don't feel the poor "deserve" their lack of wealth.
Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)www.library.ca.gov/crb/97/03/chapt3.html
Coincidence?
