Trump to look at recognizing Crimea as Russian territory, lifting sanctions
Source: Politico
Donald Trump said Wednesday that, if he is elected president, he would consider recognizing Crimea as Russian territory and lifting the sanctions against Russia.
At a wide-ranging news conference, Trump said he would be looking into that when asked about his stance on Crimea and Russia. The Crimean Peninsula has been part of Ukraine for decades, but Russian President Vladimir Putin annexed the territory in March 2014 after a popular revolt toppled Kiev's pro-Russian government.
The United States, along with the European Union, has refused to recognize the annexation or the referendum legitimizing it and has enforced sanctions on Russian state banks and corporations.
<...>
Trumps comments on Crimea came during the same news conference that he suggested Russia should hack Hillary Clintons email server to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. The remark has been harshly criticized, and the Clinton campaign said it has now become a national security issue.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/trump-crimea-sanctions-russia-226292
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)they believe everything he says.
Roy Rolling
(6,943 posts)He probably will say "I support Crimea, but I am against Organized Crimea. That is bad, my people tell me. Is that right, George? No? Ivanka...can you look that up? Anyway..."
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)knows if the guy had beans for supper.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)is gonna pay out BIG if he gets elected President!
onehandle
(51,122 posts)BooScout
(10,406 posts)Elmergantry
(884 posts)They want their cold war back....Didn't Obama say that? This place is sounding like A John Birch Society discussion forum today...
Russia is not a enemy, despite the Crimean land grab...
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)and they are interfering in our elections. I'd suggest you step outside, take a deep breath of fresh air (hey, it may be Moscow air in your case) and get back to supporting Putin the dictator.
We do not want a Putin picked dictator of our own. Trump's abandonment of NATO and love of Putin are well documented.
Elmergantry
(884 posts)A friend, but not a ally akin to NATO countries. Is there a USSR? Then why do we have NATO? It should be reconstituted and geared to fighting Islamists. Heck maybe Russia can join it.
David__77
(23,627 posts)I understand that Putin received a lot of support in the last presidential election. I also would not be surprised if there had been electoral fraud in either or both countries. I don't have knowledge of fraud or lack of fraud.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,073 posts)Elmergantry
(884 posts)David__77
(23,627 posts)I would like the US to support sovereignty and territorial integrity of existing states and peaceful and cooperative relations.
I hope the next prez whoever it is will improve relations with russia. This demonization here of a nuclear power that can blow up the world is not conducive to peace.
What trump said was tongue in cheek meant to get a rise out some people. Looks like it worked here. Ignore him.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)David__77
(23,627 posts)I can imagine Russia under certain circumstances violating the borders of Baltic states, for instance.
I don't think "containment" is needed. I think bloc-style politics aren't needed.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)It came from a discussion where he mentioned that the way that the USSR fell was a catastrophy to the Russian people: Which it was as it plunged them into a deep depression, anarchy, and banditry.
That was SPUN as if he was wishing pining for the Soviet Empire and saying he wanted it back. Which is not the case as they are more capitalistic in many ways than we are (they were sold something close to libertarian-ism by our "financial geniuses".
There is no quote to back up that claim other then russophobic editorials propagandizing the narrative.
A propaganda narrative does not make a cause for war: Potentially nuclear war.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)newthinking
(3,982 posts)Read up on the "Great Game", because we are living it and it is the greatest danger to humanity.
There is no reason to go to war based on more narratives and propaganda. The Neocons have created and industry and are more powerful then ever. You would think we would have learned after the Iraq war.
This is what it is about.
Know your NeoCons: A family business of perpetual war:
A Family Business of Perpetual War
March 20, 2015
Exclusive: Victoria Nuland and Robert Kagan have a great mom-and-pop business going. From the State Department, she generates wars and from op-ed pages he demands Congress buy more weapons. Theres a pay-off, too, as grateful military contractors kick in money to think tanks where other Kagans work, writes Robert Parry.
By Robert Parry
Neoconservative pundit Robert Kagan and his wife, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, run a remarkable family business: she has sparked a hot war in Ukraine and helped launch Cold War II with Russia and he steps in to demand that Congress jack up military spending so America can meet these new security threats.
This extraordinary husband-and-wife duo makes quite a one-two punch for the Military-Industrial Complex, an inside-outside team that creates the need for more military spending, applies political pressure to ensure higher appropriations, and watches as thankful weapons manufacturers lavish grants on like-minded hawkish Washington think tanks.
Prominent neocon intellectual Robert Kagan. (Photo credit: Mariusz Kubik, http://www.mariuszkubik.pl)
Not only does the broader community of neoconservatives stand to benefit but so do other members of the Kagan clan, including Roberts brother Frederick at the American Enterprise Institute and his wife Kimberly, who runs her own shop called the Institute for the Study of War.
Continued:
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/20/a-family-business-of-perpetual-war/
newthinking
(3,982 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025459029
[font size="2"]To understand how we got to where we are now: You must understand that this effort has been ongoing since at least the beginning of the new century.
The first attempt at affecting "Regime Change" was the orchestration, mostly by neo-cons, of the "Orange Revolution".
The Wests choice in 2004? A man by the name of Victor Yuschenko.
His wife? An American Citizen and Far Right Republican who had worked for the Reagan Administration, had been director at a NeoCon think tank (New Atlantic Initiative) (Victor also worked with this group) and also worked for the far right think tank the Heritage Foundation. "Katherine Chumachenko Yushenko worked in the White House Public Liaison Office where she conducted outreach to various right-wing and anti-communist exile groups in the United States.
A very good summary from a post on an older version of DU Tinoire
There are links on the original page:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2870381
Ukraine, Yushchenko, his wife (Bush employee), the US and Soros
"After hearing that the NED had pumped $65 million dollars into this election and that his wife was an American citizen, I thought I'd research this a little. I don't know this handsome US-backed Yushchenko but I'm suspecting that he is going to dismantle the Ukraine Boris-Yeltsin style and sell if off to US & European corporate interests. Germany, France and the US already have their deals in place with him over pipelines, utility companies and national resources.
Just thought I'd throw this information out there so that people can see how these things are done and how the media cooperates into presenting these changes as "spontaneous" changes that the US had nothing to do with.
So here we go. First some of the "meddling" that the media hasn't covered and then in my second post, Yushchenko's "dedicated conservative" US State Department wife.
$61 million for the Ukraine elections to back Yushchenko and $100,000 to the Tsunami victims. Just shameful.
==========================================================
Bush Adminstration Spent $65 Million to Help Opposition in Ukraine
December 10, 2004
By: Matt Kelley
Associated Press
Printer Friendly Version
WASHINGTON - The Bush administration has spent more than $65 million in the past two years to aid political organizations in Ukraine, paying to bring opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko to meet U.S. leaders and helping to underwrite exit polls indicating he won last month's disputed runoff election.
(snip)
But officials acknowledge some of the money helped train groups and individuals opposed to the Russian-backed government candidate people who now call themselves part of the Orange revolution.
For example, one group that got grants through U.S.-funded foundations is the Center for Political and Legal Reforms, whose Web site has a link to Yushchenko's home page under the heading "partners." Another project funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development brought a Center for Political and Legal Reforms official to Washington last year for a three-week training session on political advocacy.
(snip)
The four foundations involved included three funded by the U.S. government: The National Endowment for Democracy, which gets its money directly from Congress; the Eurasia Foundation, which gets money from the State Department, and the Renaissance Foundation, part of a network of charities funded by billionaire George Soros that gets money from the State Department. Other countries involved included Great Britain, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Canada, Norway, Sweden and Denmark.
Grants from groups funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development also went to the International Center for Policy Studies, a think tank that includes Yushchenko on its supervisory board. The board also includes several current or former advisers to Kuchma, however.
IRI, Craner's Republican-backed group, used U.S. money to help Yushchenko arrange meetings with Vice President Dick Cheney , Assistant Secretary of State Richard Armitage and GOP leaders in Congress in February 2003.
(snip)
the U.S. government, through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), granted millions of dollars to the Poland-America-Ukraine Cooperation Initiative (PAUCI), which is administered by the U.S.-based Freedom House. (note: Very hawkish / Dan Quayle is one of their trustees / other names just as disturbing: http://www.freedomhouse.org/aboutfh/bod.htm )
PAUCI then sent U.S. government funds to numerous Ukrainian non-governmental organizations (NGOs). This would be bad enough and would in itself constitute meddling in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation. But, what is worse is that many of these grantee organizations in Ukraine are blatantly in favor of presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko.
Consider the Ukrainian NGO International Center for Policy Studies. It is an organization funded by the U.S. government through PAUCI. On its Web site, we discover that this NGO was founded by George Soros' Open Society Institute. And further on we can see that Viktor Yushchenko himself sits on the advisory board!
(reluctant snip)
This May, the Virginia-based private management consultancy Development Associates, Inc., was awarded $100 million by the U.S. government "for strengthening national legislatures and other deliberative bodies worldwide." According to the organization's Web site, several million dollars from this went to Ukraine in advance of the elections.
(snip)
Note from the USAID page on Ukraine: "Beyond the power sector, USAID plans to identify and assist in removing the obstacles of proper market functioning in other segments of the energy sector such as the privatization of the oil and gas transportation systems."
https://web.archive.org/web/20040826143304/http://www.usaid.gov/pubs/cbj2003/ee/ua/121-0150.html
==================
Yushenko administration lost the presidency 15 months later:
Notably, one of the things that lost him the Presidency only 15 months later was his turn toward the same brand of extreme nationalism. He elevated Stephen Bandera, (a very controversial figure who is revered by extreme factions that Europe and others warned were tied to Social Nationalist Fascist groups) to "Hero" status.
A Fascist Hero in Democratic Kiev
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2010/feb/24/a-fascist-hero-in-democratic-kiev/
[/font]
newthinking
(3,982 posts)Robbie Martin broke a HUGE story last month and it got no coverage. He attended a NeoCon (Robert Kagen) event and talked to him about his feelings about Ukraine. The Neocons pushed Obama for NUCLEAR WAR! Thank God Obama told them no. This is serious shit! Especially considering his wife, Victoria Nuland was assistant SOS and involved in regime change in Ukraine.
Robert Kagan: He did, I dont want to have a nuclear war over Ukrainemy response is well who do you want to have a nuclear war over? Do you want to have a nuclear war over Estonia? Ill go down the list, Germany? If thats your going in position, then okay, fine. Whatever nuclear countries dont want, we wont do.
Robert Kagan - Interview with Robbie Martin
I detail the surreal experience in the latest Media Roots Radio podcast with Abby Martin, where I play the recording in full. Full transcript below.
Robbie Martin: I wanted to know what your feeling was on Hillarys approach to Ukraine, is she going to send the weapons to the Ukrainian army?
Robert Kagan: I mean, Im sure, I mean the answer to that question is I dont know. I know she cares a lot about Ukraine and certainly cares more about it than the current president does
Robbie Martin: With arms, why do you think the president has sort of dragged his feet?
Robert Kagan: Uh, because he said to me because he doesnt want to get into a nuclear war with Russia.
Robbie Martin: Thats literally what he said?
Robert Kagan: Yeah, I dont think hes not hes through with his agenda with Putin, I dont think he cares about Putin anymore at all, I think hes hopelessuh, he thinks Putin is hopeless, but he says, he thinks Ukraine is part of Russian sphere of influence, and it means more to them than it means to us and therefore we shouldnt escalate in a situation like that, thats why he doesnt want to send arms.
Robbie Martin: He actually said he doesnt want a nuclear war over Ukraine?
Robert Kagan: He did, I dont want to have a nuclear war over Ukrainemy response is well who do you want to have a nuclear war over? Do you want to have a nuclear war over Estonia? Ill go down the list, Germany? If thats your going in position, then okay, fine. Whatever nuclear countries dont want, we wont do.
http://mediaroots.org/exclusive-obama-doesnt-want-nuclear-war-neocons-for-hillary/
Response to newthinking (Reply #62)
Post removed
Tempest
(14,591 posts)Their sole purpose is to disrupt conversations on Russia's crimes and invasions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/31/world/europe/russia-finland-nato-trolls.html
63splitwindow
(2,657 posts)uawchild
(2,208 posts)THAT must have a lot of heads spinning!
Neo-cons to Neo-liberals and a lot of people in between must be doing spit takes over that!
Wow, essentially concede a sphere of influence to Russia along their borders.
Where will this end?
Elmergantry
(884 posts)American hegemony!!
PSPS
(13,637 posts)Lifting sanctions means freeing up many billions of dollars for Putin and his cronies, so the motivation is there in spades.
uawchild
(2,208 posts)The Germans are already talking about phasing them out. Probably in a year most of the economic sanctions will be lifted.
And Crimea being returned doesn't seem to be a precondition either.
Kingofalldems
(38,511 posts)uawchild
(2,208 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,511 posts)uawchild
(2,208 posts)Do you agree with the German Foreign Minister on gradually lifting sanctions as the Minsk II peace accords are implemented?
Kingofalldems
(38,511 posts)Why would you even bring that up? Don't understand.
uawchild
(2,208 posts)Why would I bring up the German Foreign Ministers position on gradually lifting sanctions? You don't understand why I just mentioned that? Really? OMG
BECAUSE you JUST replied to MY post that said THIS:
"Sanctions are going to be lifted soon
The Germans are already talking about phasing them out. Probably in a year most of the economic sanctions will be lifted.
And Crimea being returned doesn't seem to be a precondition either."
I am confused about you saying "Why would you even bring that up?". I really am.
Until you can explain yourself here, pardon me if I think my time is being wasted.
Cheers.
Kingofalldems
(38,511 posts)sanctions will be lifted anyway.
That is my question. If you do then fine.
uawchild
(2,208 posts)How's life under that bridge? lol
Thank goodness for the ignore function on DU.
Buh bye. lol
Kingofalldems
(38,511 posts)Ilsa
(61,712 posts)She is from Slovenia, formerly Yugoslavia, which pulled away from the USSR in the 1940s. I would think she would be threatening to whack Traitor Trump over this crap.
Blue Idaho
(5,068 posts)Trump will say anything to stay in the news cycle. He knows his acolytes arent smart enough to understand just how treasonous his words are. As long as he builds that fucking wall he's good with them.
uawchild
(2,208 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,257 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,073 posts)uawchild
(2,208 posts)Germany, Austria favour gradual phasing out of Russia sanctions
The German and Austrian foreign ministers said that EU sanctions on Russia should be gradually phased out as the peace process progresses, abandoning previous positions that sanctions could be lifted only if the Minsk peace plan is fully implemented.
The European Union should gradually phase out sanctions imposed against Russia if there is substantial progress in the peace process, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier was quoted on Sunday (19 June) as saying.
His comments reflect divisions within Germanys ruling right-left coalition over policy towards Russia. Steinmeiers Social Democrats (SPD) back a more conciliatory stance towards Moscow than Chancellor Angela Merkels conservative bloc.
Merkel has repeatedly said that sanctions imposed against Russia can only be lifted once the peace agreement to end the conflict in Ukraine is fully implemented, not only partially.
Steinmeier struck a different tone. Sanctions are not an end in themselves. They should rather give incentives for a change in behaviour, he told the RedaktionsNetzwerk Deutschland, a network of local newspapers.
The minister said he was in favour of lifting sanctions gradually if the Russian government showed it was doing its part in implementing the Minsk peace plan for Ukraine, adding: An all or nothing approach, even if it sounds good, doesnt work.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/germany-austria-favour-gradual-phasing-out-of-russia-sanctions/
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Trump is instead offering to do whatever the fuck Putin wants.
uawchild
(2,208 posts)Germany, Austria, France, probably Italy soon, Hungary, they are all caving on sanctions against Russia.
And the thing is, even this "gradual" lifting of sanctions is only dependent on the Minsk II peace accord, and that does not cover the matter of Crimea at all.
So, sanctions can be lifted and Russia keeps the Crimea.
As for Trump, he's an attention seeking buffoon who will say anything to steal this news cycle during the Democratic Convention.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)1) did you mean Crimea?
2) It's just plain Ukraine, not the Ukraine
uawchild
(2,208 posts)Thanks for spotting that error. Fingers disconnected from brain there.
I corrected that in the post to avoid further confusion. Thanks again.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)but do you ever hear that mentioned in the media? No. Because once you look up the history you realize that we have been provided a dishonest narrative.
pampango
(24,692 posts)For the most part European governments decided to impose sanctions anyway. As time goes on, the sanctions will undoubtedly weaken then disappear.
China continues to hold onto Tibet. Democratic governments accept that and life goes on. The same will happen with Russia and Crimea. That does not make China's actions in Tibet nor Russia's actions in Crimea acceptable. The reality is that big powerful countries get to do that and the world must accept it in the long run until something changes.
bulloney
(4,113 posts)So, how much of an enemy can Russia be when we trust them in projects like this?
maxsolomon
(33,461 posts)they're just some great words, people. some of the best words. but they don't MEAN anything!
uawchild
(2,208 posts)from FEARLESS LEADER!
timlot
(456 posts)They always talk about the Cold War and Reagan defeating the Soviet Union without firing a shot. They just nominated a guy that wants to reverse all that. Shame.
uawchild
(2,208 posts)Ok... I suppose... and it's bad to piss on Reagan's grave because?
I'd figuratively would gladly piss on Reagan's grave>
Five Terrible Things Reagan Did As President
5. Reagan Stole Money from the Social Security Trust Fund
Remember those Saturday Night Live sketches in 2000 where Al Gore promised to put Social Security in a lockbox? (If youre too young to know what Im talking about, Al Gore is the man who invented the Internet and came up with the global warming hoax.)
The reason Gore was so committed to protecting Social Security is that Ronald Reagan used the funds as his personal piggy bank. After his tax cuts devastated the federal treasury, ushering in the era of giant deficits were still mired in today, Reagan raised Social Security taxes, ostensibly to protect Social Security for future generations. Instead, he dumped that money into the general treasury fund to reduce the deficits he had created. Speaking of corruption
4. Reagan Filled His Administration With Corrupt People
No administration was as corrupt as Ronald Reagans, not even Nixons. His attorney general resigned after he was involved with a company that received illegal no-bid contracts. His secretary of the interior, who thought his job was to sell off federal lands to defense contractors, was indicted on multiple counts of perjury.
Reagans vice president and successor, George Bush, pardoned six separate people for their roles in the Iran-Contra affair, including Reagans National Security adviser and his secretary of defense. Speaking of Iran-Contra
3. Reagan Presided Over the Iran-Contra Affair
In 1985 and 1986, Ronald Reagan sold arms to Iran, locked in a horrific war with Saddam Husseins Iraq, for cash and the release of U.S. hostages. The sales to Iran violated sanctions against Iran.
But much of the money that came from the sales was diverted to fund the Contras, right-wing rebels fighting the left-wing Sandinista government of Nicaragua. That was in violation of laws against helping the Contras.
As noted above, George Bush had to pardon several Reagan aides in the wake of the scandal. Speaking of aides
2. Reagan Refused to Mention AIDS, Then Cut Funding for Research
In the early 80s, a horrific new epidemic ravaged Americas gay population. Because so many of the victims of AIDS were gay, the right-wing viewed the disease as a kind of divine retribution for their sins.
Reagan didnt mention AIDS in public until September 1985, after more than 10,000 people had died from the disease. In 1986, Reagan called for a report on AIDS but also proposed cutting federal funds for research and patient care as treatments were just starting to make it to market. Speaking of inhumanity towards his fellow man
1. Reagan Opposed Sanctions on Apartheid Era-South Africa
When Congress looked likely to pass sanctions on South Africa to battle apartheid in 1985, Reagan vigorously opposed any action. In order to stop moderate Republicans from defecting, he issued a half-assed executive order imposing some sanctions.
The next year, when Congress realized Reagans sanctions didnt have teeth, it overwhelmingly passed a bill imposing real sanctions on the racist regime. Reagan vetoed the bill. Happily there were enough votes to override his veto, and the sanctions became a key part of the eventual end of apartheid.
http://archives.bluenationreview.com/5-terrible-things-ronald-reagan-president/
timlot
(456 posts)Elmergantry
(884 posts)I thought reagan was a war monger.
jpak
(41,760 posts)appeasin' motherfuck
yup
runaway hero
(835 posts)The sanctions only hurt the people of Russia, not Putin.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)tanyev
(42,673 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)dem in texas
(2,674 posts)He wants to recognize Crimea as part of Russia, bring back waterboarding and torture, invite Russia to hack our servers, check the Accounts Receivable balances of our NATO partners before we help them. He also keeps talking about the missing emails which are not missing at all, they were personal emails that the State Dept. gave HRC's staff permission to delete. He wants a law passed so he can immediately fire all the government employees hired by Obama. He scares the hell out of me.
C Moon
(12,226 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,326 posts)The Russian-backed government of Crimea has welcomed U.S. presidential hopeful Donald Trump, after he was cited saying he was open to discussing the territorys contested status.
Trump has received some praise from the Kremlin and has in turn said he would seek to end the rift between the U.S. and Russia. When asked if Trump would consider recognizing Crimea as a Russian territory, which Moscow has claimed it is, since its annexation from Ukraine in 2014, Trump reportedly responded we would be looking at that.
http://europe.newsweek.com/russia-invites-donald-trump-crimea-484892