Zimbabwe to U.S. : Extradite dentist over killing of Cecil the lion

[restorefreedom]

Source: CNN

(CNN)As outrage grows over the killing of Cecil the lion, Zimbabwe has called on the United States to extradite the American dentist who shot the prized big cat this month.

Zimbabwe has started extradition proceedings and hopes the U.S. will cooperate, said Oppah Muchinguri, the African nation's environment minister.

Walter Palmer "had a well-orchestrated agenda which would tarnish the image of Zimbabwe and further strain the relationship between Zimbabwe and the U.S.A.," Muchinguri said.

"This must be condemned in the strongest possible terms by all genuine, animal-loving conservationists who believe in sustainable utilization of natural resources."

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/31/world/zimbabwe-cecil-lion-dentist/index.html

---

dare we dream that this could actually happen?

[Chasstev365]

1. I'm not defending him, but....

From the Minneapolis Star Tribune: "I hired several professional guides, and they secured all proper permits,” Palmer’s statement read. “To my knowledge, everything about this trip was legal and properly handled.“I had no idea that the lion I took was a known, local favorite, was collared and part of a study until the end of the hunt. I relied on the expertise of my local professional guides to ensure a legal hunt.”

This makes a huge difference. Did he or did he not know it was illegal?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

2. '...until the end of the hunt'.

And did he come forward and get in touch with rangers when he saw the collar? Nope. He and his professional guides tried to destroy it.

At the very least, accessory after the fact in trying to cover up the crime.

[Frank Cannon]

4. Didn't stop him from taking his head, either.

So, basically, he's a fucking liar and a coward.

Anyway, he can save his bullshit for a Zimbabwean judge. I'm sure they'll appreciate it over there.

[hlthe2b]

5. And, supposedly (eyeroll) feeling distress once he finds out, he then requests to kill an elephant

of massive tusk size (that was not available)....

So he was so damned distressed once he "supposedly" found out re: the lion being protected, he immediately requested to kill an elephant.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zimbabwe/11773653/Cecil-the-lions-killer-Walter-Palmer-wanted-to-stalk-an-elephant-next-but-couldnt-find-one-big-enough.html

Cecil the lion's killer Walter Palmer 'wanted to stalk an elephant next - but couldn't find one big enough'

To the earlier poster... don't fall for that bs excuse.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

7. That's a damning article.

“I should have taken it to Parks [the Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlfe Management Authority], I admit that. So we did what had to be done. We took the head and skin, as the client had paid for the trophy.

...

“He was only here for a few days. He shot the lion he wanted to shoot, he paid for the trophy, which is the skull and skin. I took it to Bulawayo where we were curing it, prior to it going to a taxidermist for export to the US where it would be assembled and mounted. They do that better there then we do it here.”

They knew they'd shot a lion they weren't allowed to, but still 'took the head and skin' to make into trophies.

[Myrina]

9. "He shot the lion he wanted to shoot"

- that says it all right there.

[Chasstev365]

13. Again, I'm not defending him, I just posed the question.

Even if it WAS legal, I personally question why anyone would want to kill any animal for a trophy kill. I'm guess I was wonder if he was a gullible fool or if he knew what he was doing. There's conflicting information.

[restorefreedom]

23. the evidence is pretty clear

lured cecil out of,protected area
collar was very visible
black mane very distinctive
tried to destroy gps collar
still took head and mane even after trying to destroy collar
is avoiding us authorities and is in hidimg


i am sure there is more...

he is no fool. he is a psycho and knew full well what he was doing

oh and he has a felony record for lying about where he killed a bear he should not have killed.

class A scumbag

[avebury]

68. Palmer has now been caught twice completing an illegal hunt.

There is absolutley no doubt in my mind that he has most likely completed other illegal hunts. He is a vile, person with no ethics or morals.

[restorefreedom]

70. hopefully this time

they will gather evidence from his man cave and charge him for all of it

pos

[RKP5637]

79. I would love to see that! Far too often assholes like this with lots of money go off with no

serious repercussions for what they did.

[restorefreedom]

82. he has such a huge ego

he probably thinks he can buy his way out of it,

but the public pressure from 2 countries is too much

i hope he is watching all the coverage, cowering in fear and soiling himself.

[truebluegreen]

24. "Conflicting information" and

a previous conviction for poaching a bear. And apparently after killing the lion he wanted to kill a trophy elephant. That dentist is not a gullible fool.

[City Lights]

31. He knew what he was doing.

He's a convicted felon.

[Politicalboi]

52. Stop defending this asshole

He KNEW exactly what he was doing. And then he wanted to kill again. I hope he ends up in a lions lair and they get to keep him for a trophy.

[skamaria]

57. He would be nothing but Baby Ruth's whenever the lions took a dump.

N/T

[RKP5637]

77. Here's my thought on this, post #76. n/t

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1163990

[restorefreedom]

83. exactly

he knew it was wrong from the beginnig. but he was an arrogant enough prick to think he would get away with it.

[City Lights]

3. If he believes that he should come out of hiding.

IMO, he's a sniveling, lying coward. No way do I believe he didn't know they were luring the lion out of the protected preserve onto private property. He's no dummy. He knew. He's a fucking cowardly liar.

[hamsterjill]

85. I couldn't agree more!

Well said!!! Where is the "tough guy" now? If he's so certain he's done nothing wrong, then let him voluntarily go and face the music.

What a scumbag!

[Triana]

10. The man has illegally poached before...

...I think he likely knew it was not legal and refuses to admit it.

[Kelvin Mace]

14. That was a statement

not taken under oath and without the benefit of cross-examination. It means nothing.

[restorefreedom]

19. it can be testified to

by his co defendants

[Kelvin Mace]

21. If he is charged by the Zimbabwe government

I really don't see how the U.S. can refuse extradition. To do so would pretty much invalidate all extradition treaties with the U.S. in the future. Of course, I believe Bush the Lesser already did that when he refused to extradite CIA agents charged with kidnapping by the Italians, so this may be a moot point.

[restorefreedom]

26. i think you are on to something important

after the hypocrisy of "we don't torture" (but we really did), the u.s. has to be very careful about appearing not to honor laws and treaties they expect other to honor.

and the pressure coming from both countries to unload this guy is enormous.

[samsingh]

29. palmer is a monster and needs to be put into prison. period.

he's an immoral asshole.

[samsingh]

30. palmer also paid a sexual harrassment settlement in the 6 figures

the fing moron just keeps on giving.

I wonder if any of his patients having died.

[Marrah_G]

35. How could he have not seen the radio collar before he shot?

[cab67]

41. Probably because it was covered by the mane.

I'm not defending this dirtbag - he should be punished if he broke the law. But in fact, he probably couldn't see the collar.

That being said, his guides would almost certainly have known exactly which lion it was. That, and his inability to do the right thing afterward (report the unlawful killing, and hand over both the collar and any trophies taken from the lion, to the authorities), gives me absolutely no sympathy for him.

He apparently has two children. I feel very sorry for them. They didn't ask to be thrown into this mess.

[kas125]

53. It was plainly visible. Probably was even more so with the spotlight they had on him.

[ladjf]

38. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." nt

[Adrahil]

40. That's what trials are for.... and depends on what the guides say, right?

Don't get me wrong.... I'm not sure he can get a fair trial, but to be honest, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the guy either.

[okasha]

42. It makes no difference at all,

even assuming anyone believes him.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

[csziggy]

45. He already admitted he lied to federal wildlife officials

When he illegally killed a bear 40 miles outside the area where he was supposed to be hunting. Now he's hired a PR firm to parse his statements. He seems to think that the laws for his 'sport' don't apply to him unless he is caught.

Palmer pleaded guilty to federal charges in 2008 related to the poaching of a black bear in Wisconsin two years earlier. Palmer and others transported the bear, which was killed 40 miles outside of a legal hunting zone, to a registration station inside the legal area. Palmer was sentenced to one year of probation and fined nearly $3,000.

n the spring of 2003, Palmer was convicted in Otter Tail County in western Minnesota and paid a small fine for fishing without a license, a misdemeanor.
http://www.startribune.com/what-we-know-about-minnesota-dentist-walter-palmer/318943371/

Palmer, 55, who pleaded guilty to a license violation after shooting a black bear in Wisconsin in 2008, said he has not been contacted by any authorities in Zimbabwe or the U.S., but added that he will cooperate with investigators. The public-relations firm that worked with Palmer on the statement said he was in the Twin Cities on Tuesday.
http://www.startribune.com/zimbabwe-2-to-appear-in-court-for-killing-cecil-the-lion/318828251/

I think he attempted to be in a situation where he could claim he did not know that his guides were doing illegal things - plausible deniability works for politicians, why not dentists?

[mnhtnbb]

50. Bullshit. He knew what the guides was doing was wrong.

This was not some inexperienced trophy hunter. He's just spouting what his attorneys
have told him to say so he can get off without any accountability for what he did. After all, he's a white,
male Republican and he knows he doesn't have to account for squat if he just throws enough money at his defense.

[magical thyme]

54. he specifically requested to hunt near the park and from what I've read

was on the truck with the bait. He didn't realize that baiting a lion and luring it out of the park was illegal? Or, having discovered the collar, he thought that mutilating the corpse and trying to hide the collar was appropriate?

Sorry, not buying it.

Plus US Fish and Wildlife has been looking for him all week. He is a suspect in an international ring of traffickers in banned animal parts.

[avebury]

66. It would go to credibility.

He already has a history of one known illegal killing of a black bear which, if you had read the entire Star Tribune article you would have seen. He has also had to make a settlement on a sexual harrassment case. As he has every evidence of being a man of poor character and ethics do you really want to take his word that he had no idea of what he as doing?

Once the lion was killed and there was no doubt that all involved knew exactly what they did what did they do? They cut off the radio collar, tried to destroy it and threw it into a tree. And what did Palmer do next? He asked the guides about finding an huge elephant for him to kill the next day. This is a man with absolutely no morals. I wouldn't believe one word out of his mouth.

[noel711]

67. He's a coward...

He's hiding behind the 'law,' as he interprets it,
but hiding from the law when called into responsibility.

"Permits"...? Permits to blind the animal, chase it down for 40 hours
before killing it, beheading it, skinning it... and leaving the carcass to rot in the sun?

Legal? maybe, but horrible immoral, indecent and horrendous. Cruel... stupid.. cowardly lion-killer.

The law... twas legal to have slaves in our country..
twas legal to beat one's wife..
twas legal to exterminate Jews in Germany..

The law... right.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

69. The hunter has become the hunted - good. KARMA IS A bitch aint it. nm

[TBF]

73. Although it's lovely of you to defend poor misunderstood Walter

this is clearly not his first rodeo. "Did he or did he not know it was illegal?" Evidence shows behavior of prior bad acts. Not to mention lack of humanity - but something tells me you're not going to swayed by common decency if you're defending this guy.

Cecil the Lion Killer Walter James Palmer Has Bear-Related Felony Record
by Alexander Smith and Sean Federico-O'Murchu ~ Jul 29 2015, 7:14 pm ET

The American dentist who used a bow and arrow to kill a well-known lion in Zimbabwe also has a felony record over the hunting of black bear in Wisconsin, court documents show.

Walter James Palmer sparked outrage when it emerged he killed Cecil the lion, a local tourist favorite who had been collared as part of an Oxford University research project.

The Minnesota-based dentist said he had the correct permits to hunt and kill the animal earlier this month. But the two people he hired to lure the lion to its death have been charged with breaching hunting quotas and appeared in court Wednesday. The Associated Press reported they had been paid $50,000 by Palmer.

Following the incident, court documents emerged showing Palmer was fined $3,000 and given a year's probation after pleading guilty over the illegal killing of a black bear in Wisconsin in 2006 ...

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cecil-lion-killer-walter-james-palmer-has-bear-related-felony-n400226

[RKP5637]

76. My feeling on this is if he felt he had done nothing wrong he would come forward to the

US authorities wanting to talk to him than going in hiding.

[Sienna86]

6. Let him go to trial and tell his story.

They were "upset" when they saw the collar. No kidding. They knew they were in big trouble. So they tried to smash the collar GPS device tracked by researchers at Oxford. This is a big deal, and I hope, a deterrent to those who seek to kill animals for sport.

[George II]

37. Upset? That's why they have a picture of him posing over the head with a HUGE grin?

[restorefreedom]

60. notice the quotes the poster put around the word upset

it's just a bullshit excuse and then trying to pretend that they care which of course they didn't.

[Myrina]

8. We'd better.

The US is always holding itself up a the model of 'law and order' and 'respect for law' ... well, if we don't respect other countries' laws and requests, that sorta makes us hypocrites in yet another area, doesn't it?

[restorefreedom]

12. i hope the govt learned something

from the "we don't torture" debacle and don t repeat the hypocrisy here.

[restorefreedom]

11. the park where cecil lived

has now suffered a drop i tourism i reas this morning.

so before they ship this guy off to zimbabwe prison, they need to liquidate his assets to reimburse the country for all the money they're losing because of his actions.

[Kelvin Mace]

16. Uh, let's have an actual trial first, please

[restorefreedom]

17. sure. zimbabwe wants him back so send him

i am happy to see his assets go into escrow until they convict his sorry ass.

[Kelvin Mace]

18. Completely agree.

I believe the penalty for poaching in Zimbabwe is 15 years.

[restorefreedom]

20. 15 years in a prison there

probably feels very long.

after his cushy lifestyle, that could be pretty bad for him.

i am reminded of the whole reap, sow thing

[Kelvin Mace]

22. Would love to see this blow up in the coming campaign season

and watch the GOP side try to defend someone everyone hates.

[restorefreedom]

27. well, if they trot out ted nugent to make their case...

we will know how desperate they really are

i actually think some gops running might have enough gray matter to realize this issue is a loser.

one can dream, right?

[CountAllVotes]

43. or Trump

Trump's son loves this kinda sh*t!



http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2015/07/donald-trumps-kids-are-also-big-game-hunters

& recommend!!

[restorefreedom]

58. what a sorry picture. nt

[okasha]

51. Karma, baby.

[Igel]

34. We won't have an actual trial.

It's Zimbabwe. It's political. It's not only political, it's a black-and-white, Western-versus-indigenous, rich-versus-poor issue that is both 'popular' and 'populist' and involves a hefty price tag for some Zimbabwean departments. It's less an issue of "justice" in the sense of "enforcing the law" and more an issue of justice in the sense of "what does the crowd and, more importantly, the politicians think is right to punish this guy?"

Did I mention it's Zimbabwe? The government there has had a lot of DUer support unless it was doing something really and truly horrible to the wrong people. Even then, that something had to be really and truly horrible, and the "wrong people" had to be above reproach. If 50,000 people did but were politically suspect the condemnation was muddled.

[Kelvin Mace]

56. Well, he is likely to have an extradition hearing

if Zimbabwe actually requests extradition. He can then make his case for why he shouldn't be extradited. I am not a big fan of broken judicial systems, but conservatives keep lecturing me about the "rule of law", while folks here don't seem to give a damn about "justice" when it is a child accused of a heinous murder.

So, is the issue adherence to the law or actual justice? If justice, are we talking true justice where the truth is sought and penalties are humane, or vindictive justice where "justice" is what the mob decrees?

Not taking a poke at you, simply asking questions aloud.

If we refuse to extradite Palmer because we don't expect him to get a fair trial, or that the punishment would be inhumane, then we (as a nation) cannot expect other countries to extradite folks to this country for the same reasons (say, someone like Snowden). Our judicial system is grossly unfair and our punishments inhumane.

If we charge him and try him in this country, it is highly unlikely he will suffer any punishment since he is a wealthy conservative.

[restorefreedom]

59. i hate the conclusion you reached about a us trial

but that is probably the sad reality. everything else you said was right on too.

personally, i would like zimbabwe to give some assurances of fair treatment and off he goes.....

what is good for the goose.....

[LanternWaste]

61. We will however, prophecize on extrajudicial matters we have little knowledge of

We will however, prophecize on extrajudicial matters we have little knowledge, and maintain the pretense we know what horrible deeds DU supports...

[Scootaloo]

84. travelers are not allowed to break the laws of nations they go to just because they are bad laws

Leave reforming the laws and practices of a nation to the nationals; the fact remains that an Amewrican traveler went there, appears to have broken the laws there, and needs to face that.

[Gothmog]

15. This dentist needs to be extradicted

[Darb]

25. I have a feeling that this could get ugly.

[restorefreedom]

33. there is now pressure from two countries

to send him.pressure here, pressure there

this is going to be a tough one to get out of.

the zimbabwe minister already said a lack of cooperation could hurt our relations with them.
poaching is a big deal there and he did a major f*ck up.

send him back. loser

[Darb]

28. A couple of other insights,

from the many photos online it looks like he has lost a good deal of weight and muscled up. I am speculating that he has had a drop in his usual unbridled masculinity in recent years and has put himself on a course of testosterone. Jussayin.

And on another note, the full frame photo of that leopard he killed also shows a dog in the background. Just speculating again, but I would guess that they used the dogs to "tree" that leopard and then in comes the testosterone-fueled Great White Hunter to put an easy arrow into the cornered beast.

Both just speculation, but I know someone kind of like this guy.

[restorefreedom]

32. yeah. a tiny penis loser

with a disproportionately massive ego.

[CountAllVotes]

46. +1,000

very small as in microscopic!!

[restorefreedom]

62. where did i leave my scanning electron microscope?

its THAT small.

[CountAllVotes]

78. .

[RKP5637]

81. Yep, little dick, big gun! What an asshole Palmer is! I sure hope he doesn't think this is all

going to blow over and he will waltz in and resume his practice. He went way over the line this time.

[csziggy]

47. They make no attempt to pretend to not use dogs

Look at the pictures of their various hunts.

This link leads to one of Dr. Palmer with a Southern White Rhino he supposed to have killed with his bow and arrows:
http://trophyhuntamerica.smugmug.com/Other/SAFARI-CONNECTION-Africa/4034720_LkPBFc/234882651_7DR52sJ#!i=234882651&k=7DR52sJ

The fourth picture from the left on the top row shows another dead leopard with the guides, the "hunter" and the dogs. Page two of the pictures on that account show more images of hunting leopards with dogs as well as more group shots of the "hunters," the guides and the dogs. I don't have the stomach to look at the rest of the images again.

[FM451]

36. Cover-Up is his downfall

As the old saying goes "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up". The one statement that Walter Palmer has released says that He didn't know the Lion was protected, or lured off off a Sanctuary until after Cecil was killed. That He was misled by the guides He hired.
Had He reported the killing of Cecil at once, He might (or might not) have escaped full responsibility.

But by leaving the country without reporting the killing, He is a participant in the cover-up. He knew, and still did nothing.

That will hang him in the end (so to speak).

[Rolf21]

39. Evil dentist.

I wouldn't get a filling from him.

[CountAllVotes]

44. Welcome to the Democratic Underground Rolf21!!

& welcome!!

[Rolf21]

48. Thank you.

I hope to live up to your expectations.

[CountAllVotes]

49. I have no expectations

Just an and a welcome is all!

[restorefreedom]

63. i hope you are not one of those anti dentites

kidding!! welcome to du!

[cosmicone]

55. He has lawyered up

His "representative" called the fish and wild game people. Which also means the asshole will be invoking the fifth amendment and not revealing anything.

He will fight the extradition on the grounds that he won't get a fair trial and/or be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. He will probably win that fight.

It is probably better if they get a warrant to search his house and office and find contraband animal parts of endangered species or something. With that hook, they will probably find tax evasion or mail/wire fraud which are easier to prove. Then throw the book at him.

[restorefreedom]

64. they suspect he is involved in something much bigger

and as much as I would like to see his ass rotting in zimbabwe prison, if they do as you say and go through all of his stuff, they are very likely to find evidence of other crimes that they can charge him for in this country. And while American prison isn't as miserable, I could probably live with it. That and some big ass fines and restitution to Zimbabwe for the money they're not getting anymore from tourism because of him.

[PoliticAverse]

65. So have they made a formal extradition request to the US yet? n/t

[restorefreedom]

71. they said today they have started the paperwork

they want him to stand trial there for poaching

[PoliticAverse]

72. I hope the paperwork doesn't get lo$t. n/t

[okasha]

74. Let Zimbabwe have him first.

That's where the crime occurred. Arrest and try him for breaking American laws once he's released from prison there.

[christx30]

75. As angry as I am over the death of Cecil,

Mugabe has no room to talk about animal rights, including lions.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/robert-mugabe-eats-a-zoo-for-obscene-91st-birthday-party-10077805.html

His guests were fed a young elephant, and two buffaloes, two sables and five impalas were also donated to the president by a local landowner. He also threw in a lion and a crocodile to be stuffed as an extra gift for Mugabe. On top of this, 40 cows were offered to the president by two members of his government. A second elephant is going to be shot and given to the Victoria Falls community.

That said, I hope Dr. Palmer spends a lot of time in prison.

[24601]

80. Has anyone looked at Robert Mugabe's 91st Birthday "party" menu about five months ago?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/robert-mugabe-eats-a-zoo-for-obscene-91st-birthday-party-10077805.html

Here are a few paragraphs that describe Mugabe's party and provide insight to his mindset. It's why I judge Palmer's extradition will not be considered a remote possibility.

"The ZANU-PF leader saw in his 92nd year with the slaughter of wild animals, including an elephant, which were cooked and served to his guests."

"An estimated 20,000 people attended the party at Elephant Hills resort, which was put on to celebrate the birthday of the leader who has been accused of abusing human rights and democracy."

"His guests were fed a young elephant, and two buffaloes, two sables and five impalas were also donated to the president by a local landowner. He also threw in a lion and a crocodile to be stuffed as an extra gift for Mugabe. On top of this, 40 cows were offered to the president by two members of his government. A second elephant is going to be shot and given to the Victoria Falls community."