Israel Rejects Kerry's Warning: We Won't Stop Voicing Concerns Over Iran Deal
Last edited Sun Jul 26, 2015, 11:44 AM - Edit history (1)
Source: Haaretz
By Barak Ravid | Jul. 26, 2015 | 9:13 AM | 3
Senior Israeli officials have rejected U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry's admonition that if Congress fails to approve the nuclear deal reached between world powers and Iran, the international community would place the onus of the failure on Israel.
"The U.S. Congress will make its decision according to American interests which will take into consideration its allies," the official said on Sunday, in response to Kerry's criticism. "Attempts to prevent Israel from expressing its position will not stop us from saying what we think about this bad deal with Iran which threatens Israel's security."
On Friday, Kerry addressed the Council of Foreign Relations in New York on the nuclear accord with Iran, and said that "if Congress were to overturn [the deal], our friends in Israel could actually wind up being more isolated. And more blamed [by the international community]."
Kerry added that in such a scenario the international coalition formed around the deal – which includes China and Russia – would fall apart, sanctions would still be lifted and Iran would be free to do as it pleases while claiming the U.S. failed to make good on its part of the deal.
Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.667826
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Steviehh
(115 posts)Bad bad deal... sounds like scolding a dog.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)
6chars
(3,967 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Are you going to volunteer for combat if your side gets its way?
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #4)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)There will be no "better deal" if this one gets shot down by the militaristic hardliners in the GOP and Israel.
The rest of the world will rightly conclude that the US is incapable of being reasonable on this, that there's no sense working with a US President on anything that involves anything Israel cares about. Because he'll just get overruled by Congress.
So, Germany and Russia and China and the the EU and Britain and France will just cut their own deal with Iran, and none of the restrictions of this deal will matter.
Which will leave only one option for getting in the way of an Iranian nuke. War.
And if you think Iran would let Israel get away with a bombing run, think again. They have, via Hezbollah, 130,000 missiles in Lebanon capable of reaching Israel.
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #7)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)table most certainly want a war.
Israel's leadership has not identified a path towards a better deal. Because they know one doesn't exist.
The only thing--the only thing--that will satisfy their list of demands is regime change in Tehran.
So they need Uncle Sam to do the heavy lifting for them.
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #10)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)nuclear weapon.
They are not willing to settle for the risk being greatly reduced--they are demanding it be eliminated.
The problem is that the rest of the planet is not willing to eliminate that risk. Because the only way to eliminate that risk is regime change in Tehran.
We've had John McCain singing "Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran" and we've had Ronald Reagan calling the USSR the "Evil Empire" and joking about abolishing it via strategic bombing.
Kruschev said "we will bury you."
Yet, diplomacy was pursued instead of regime change.
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #13)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)they were trying to sabotage it before there were any terms, before there was a deal
they do not believe in dialogue and diplomacy as a means to resolve security issues. Rather, security is only achieved by imposing one's will on the threat, and controlling the threat, not by managing it. The generation of ben Gurion, even Begin, is gone. We are now in the era of Netanyahu, and Bennett, and Lieberman.
Even supposed 'reasonable' figures like Ehud Barak.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/ehud-barak-on-iran-close-the-door-and-tell-them-dismantle-or-else/
“It’s the [world powers’] last moment to stand firm and to make a position and to make sure that Iran will eventually understand, that either they dismantle their nuclear program or else,” Barak said.
“I think that what is really needed is a clear message — it’s not too late to send an authoritative envoy of the president to come to [Iranian Supreme Leader Ali] Khamenei, [Iranian President Hassan] Rouhani, close the door behind and tell them: ‘Gentlemen, we fully understand you, we are not going to embarrass you, we’re not going to humiliate you, but you have to understand: either you agree once and for all to dismantle your nuclear military program – or else.’”
...
“Technically speaking, the Pentagon and the armed forces of America under the backing and probably directive of the president create extremely effective means of destroying the Iranian nuclear military program over a fraction of one night, in an operation which is much closer on the spectrum between the war on Iraq and the killing of Osama bin Laden, it’s much closer to killing Osama Bin Laden, and it’s something that should be understood — the Iranians can do nothing about it except for attacking Israel,” Barak said.
Their model is how they've dealt with the Palestinians--by using brute force to subjugate them.
So, anything less than Iranian capitulation, with the terms Israel wants being imposed on Iran, with Iran not only unwilling but unable to depart from those terms, is unacceptable.
And this is how they approach the United States. Michael Oren stated very explicitly what Israel believes it is entitled to--the United States adhering to a policy of zero daylight between it and Israel, taking no action without getting Israeli permission, acting on behalf of and at the behest of Israel.
If the rest of the world will not impose Israel's will on Iran, the Israelis figure that they need to impose their will on the Americans, and that once they've taken control of American foreign policy in the region, they can use American power to bend the rest of the world to America's will, and then the rest of the world will bend Iran to Israel's will.
They live in a Nietzschean hall of mirrors.
There is no reasoning with the Israelis.
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #17)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)before it was even conducted
On one side of the line are all 15 members of the UN Security Council and Barack Obama. On the other side are the Israelis, Mike Huckabee, Ted Cruz, etc.
One can draw the proper inferences from that.
lark
(23,179 posts)They always want war, any excuse will do.
6chars
(3,967 posts)Some people will believe anything bad about Israel regardless of how untrue. And many people will say anything bad about Israel regardless of how untrue. Israelis do not want war. Actually, that's an odd thing to say about Graham too. You and your buddies can keep making these extremist and absolutist statements about Israel, and continue to respond to any comment by insisting that you know everything. But as you do so, even though you are making different statements, you are basically thinking and discussing at as base a level as those who say Obama is a Kenyan who wants to destroy America. What is it about Israel in particular that you think would make it always wants war?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)use its own military and its own diplomacy to serve Israel's interests.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/ehud-barak-on-iran-close-the-door-and-tell-them-dismantle-or-else/
“It’s the [world powers’] last moment to stand firm and to make a position and to make sure that Iran will eventually understand, that either they dismantle their nuclear program or else,” Barak said.
“I think that what is really needed is a clear message — it’s not too late to send an authoritative envoy of the president to come to [Iranian Supreme Leader Ali] Khamenei, [Iranian President Hassan] Rouhani, close the door behind and tell them: ‘Gentlemen, we fully understand you, we are not going to embarrass you, we’re not going to humiliate you, but you have to understand: either you agree once and for all to dismantle your nuclear military program – or else.’”
...
“Technically speaking, the Pentagon and the armed forces of America under the backing and probably directive of the president create extremely effective means of destroying the Iranian nuclear military program over a fraction of one night, in an operation which is much closer on the spectrum between the war on Iraq and the killing of Osama bin Laden, it’s much closer to killing Osama Bin Laden, and it’s something that should be understood — the Iranians can do nothing about it except for attacking Israel,” Barak said.
Israel's policy, in a nutshell, is "Let's you and them have a fight."
The Israelis need to respect our sovereignty, stop trying to control our foreign policy and stop trying to commandeer our armed forces.
If they want Iran's nuclear program bombed out of existence, they need to do it themselves.
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #18)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-04-15/bloomberg-politics-national-poll-finds-deep-partisan-split-on-israel-and-iran
Did this happen by accident?
No, the Israelis and the Republicans have formed an unholy alliance--one based upon repudiating 'the left' in each country, while implementing the Bush-Cheney-Netanyahu agenda.
Republican elites have peddled the line that Israel is a sacred cow that must be both revered and protected at all costs, and the Republicans as a group have bought into that so muich so that they've all become Israel Firsters.
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #23)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)who have decided to make their entire country partisan allies of the Republicans.
Israelis overwhelmingly wanted Mitt Romney to win in 2012. They and Pakistan were the only two nations holding such a preference.
Speaks volumes.
lark
(23,179 posts)Israel has been pushing the US for years and years to bomb Iran. What do you think that is? I call it war and I'm sure Iran would as well. Now they are pushing for no treaty with Iran. Why, it will put their Iranian war fantasies to rest fo rmany years. To clarify, they don't want to bomb Iran, they want us to do it for them.
Rabin was their last leader who wanted peace and they killed him.
it fits your theory of the world to say that Israeli's don't want peace. you need someone to blame. of course they want peace. but it is a tough neighborhood so they aren't willing to roll on their backs and ask their enemies to scratch their tummies. no country does that. you and your friends are very certain of the conclusions you draw from limited and superficial knowledge. it feels good to be so sure you are right, doesn't it?
Just because other people may think the same way about certain things that I do doesn't mean I know them or coordinate my writings with them. I actually don't personally know anyone that posts to this board, so wouldn't be a good person to ask.
My theories are formed by what I read from many sources, including here, and from what I see on the news. I am probably less pro-Israel that anyone I know, but those are my true feelings. I didn't disdain Israel when Rabin was in office, but things changed dramatically under Bibi.
Response to Purveyor (Original post)
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sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)Israel may have to think twice, because a lot
of its US supporters may turn against it, and not
just against the congress. This has already happened
due to the Gaza situation and the settlements in
the WB. A lot of us don't like foreign interference
in our policies, and with this agreement Israel
may just go too far for many.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)currently exist are moot.
Thankfully the rest of the planet does worship at the alter of israeli extremists aka AIPIC.
karynnj
(59,507 posts)Especially when it is an obvious truth.
You have Netanyahu himself saying they will fight it through Congress. You also have Dermer doing marathon talks with Congressmen, telling them that even if there is no deal Obama will keep Iran from getting a bomb. As if that were the only concern. Not to mention AIPAC and others spending millions.
Yet, they have a problem that Kerry observed that Israel will get part of the blame if this I'd rejected.
lark
(23,179 posts)If Bibi didn't take such an extreme view and push his doomsday predictions so hard, the Repugs wouldn't be so dead set against this either.
It's really stupid. He'll get the worst of both worlds if this is rejected. The rest of the world will give Iran back their $$ and will stop their sanctions and there will be no effective controls on any nuclear weapons dreams. Of course, he knows this. He just wants to make it so that war becomes a more viable option.
