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Bosonic

(3,746 posts)
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 04:08 AM Jul 2015

Turkish Jets Strike Kurds in Iraq, Complicating Anti-ISIS Fight

Source: AP

ANKARA, Turkey — Turkish jets struck camps belonging to Kurdish militants in northern Iraq, authorities said Saturday, the first strike since a 2013 peace deal as Ankara also bombed ISIS positions in Syria.

The strikes in Iraq targeted the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, whose affiliates have been effective in battling ISIS. The strikes further complicate the U.S.-led war against the extremists, which has relied on Kurdish forces making gains in both Iraq and Syria.

A spokesman in Iraq for the PKK, which has been fighting Turkey for autonomy since 1984 and is considered a terrorist organization by Ankara and its allies, said the strikes likely spelled the end of 2013 peace agreement.

"Turkey has basically ended the cease-fire," Zagros Hiwa told The Associated Press, declining to elaborate further. He said the PKK was still assessing the damage caused by the strikes, though they didn't appear to cause casualties.

Read more: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/turkish-jets-strike-kurds-iraq-complicating-anti-isis-fight-n398276?hootPostID=fc980657ad7535819076d23fbb33277f

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bluedigger

(17,088 posts)
2. Should we give the Turks more bombs, or give the Kurds more Sams?
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 06:42 AM
Jul 2015

Let'd do both, it's a win-win for the MIC!

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
7. +10,000 US has sold billion$ in MIC arms in just past few years
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 02:15 PM
Jul 2015

The ME is awash in high powered weaponry, thanks to the MIC and Congress.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
3. Put a fence around the whole Middle East and let the problem take care of itself.
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 07:52 AM
Jul 2015

Keep an eye on it and whack anything that gets outta the box.
Sad but thats the way it goes when you want to live like its 1350

starroute

(12,977 posts)
4. You're speaking out of ignorance and insulting the Kurds
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 11:44 AM
Jul 2015
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/08/why-world-ignoring-revolutionary-kurds-syria-isis

The autonomous region of Rojava, as it exists today, is one of few bright spots – albeit a very bright one – to emerge from the tragedy of the Syrian revolution. Having driven out agents of the Assad regime in 2011, and despite the hostility of almost all of its neighbours, Rojava has not only maintained its independence, but is a remarkable democratic experiment. Popular assemblies have been created as the ultimate decision-making bodies, councils selected with careful ethnic balance (in each municipality, for instance, the top three officers have to include one Kurd, one Arab and one Assyrian or Armenian Christian, and at least one of the three has to be a woman), there are women’s and youth councils, and, in a remarkable echo of the armed Mujeres Libres (Free Women) of Spain, a feminist army, the “YJA Star” militia (the “Union of Free Women”, the star here referring to the ancient Mesopotamian goddess Ishtar), that has carried out a large proportion of the combat operations against the forces of Islamic State.

How can something like this happen and still be almost entirely ignored by the international community, even, largely, by the International left? Mainly, it seems, because the Rojavan revolutionary party, the PYD, works in alliance with Turkey’s Kurdish Worker’s Party (PKK), a Marxist guerilla movement that has since the 1970s been engaged in a long war against the Turkish state. Nato, the US and EU officially classify them as a “terrorist” organisation. Meanwhile, leftists largely write them off as Stalinists.

But, in fact, the PKK itself is no longer anything remotely like the old, top-down Leninist party it once was. Its own internal evolution, and the intellectual conversion of its own founder, Abdullah Ocalan, held in a Turkish island prison since 1999, have led it to entirely change its aims and tactics.

The PKK has declared that it no longer even seeks to create a Kurdish state. Instead, inspired in part by the vision of social ecologist and anarchist Murray Bookchin, it has adopted the vision of “libertarian municipalism”, calling for Kurds to create free, self-governing communities, based on principles of direct democracy, that would then come together across national borders – that it is hoped would over time become increasingly meaningless. In this way, they proposed, the Kurdish struggle could become a model for a wordwide movement towards genuine democracy, co-operative economy, and the gradual dissolution of the bureaucratic nation-state.
 

7962

(11,841 posts)
6. Oh, I agree the Kurds are the only ones that have been reliably on our side.
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 02:13 PM
Jul 2015

And our own administration has blocked heavy weapons aid to them, which is ridiculous.
OK, maybe put a fence around the Kurds, and let the rest of them hash it out

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
9. Just when I thought I couldn't like Turkey less. So they allow us to cross their airspace.
Sun Jul 26, 2015, 12:27 AM
Jul 2015

This seemed like a good thing the other day when it was announced. Now they undercut us with this. The Kurds deserve more help, and Turkey is not helping with this bombing. It's shocking to me that as a member of NATO they are acting against a group that renounced terror. And they advantage one that thrives on it. We'll see what, if anything Obama can do. The treaty stands and Turkey is not about to let go of it. I'm not sure what the rest of NATO thinks about this... This is wrong, IMO. The Kurds appear to be the most western leaning group there and are willing to fight ISIS.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
10. Okay, I just re-read the link to see if I missed something big. I did:
Sun Jul 26, 2015, 01:07 AM
Jul 2015
On Wednesday, the PKK claimed responsibility for the killing of two Turkish police officers near the Kurdish majority city of Sanliurfa, near the Syrian border.

Perhaps that's why the truce is over. It seems to have come out a bombing in Turkey by ISIS (?) that the Kurds blamed Turkey for, as they've been lax with allowing ISIS to cross their land before.

One of the things that spurred the USA to get involved with Syria was Turkey's complaintss that the civil war there, which by all measures is the fault of the Assad dynasty, was firing shells into Turkey and killing people.

Supposedly by accident. Those shells have going all over the place. But Turkey and nations next to Syria have been flooded with refugees from Iraq and Syria. The outpouring of refugees escaping ISIS has impacted so many countries, such as Greece, the African nations, etc.

It is a human and ecological holocaust that we will not see the end of in generations, IMO. Part of the reason Obama did not want to get drawn back into Iraq and to avoid the Syrian disaster was that there are so many who have been displaced by the war in Iraq, and more warfare will only displace more. I posted this a while back on a thread about the number of casualities in Iraq:

‘Apocalyptic’ Isis beyond anything we've seen, say US defence chiefs.

By Spencer Ackerman - 22 August 2014

...(General) Dempsey, an Iraq veteran, has long been sceptical of US military involvement in the Syrian conflict, citing among other reasons the threat to US pilots from dictator Bashar al-Assad’s air defences.
He has frustrated those who advocated American involvement in the two neighbouring wars, such as hawkish Republican senator John McCain, who in June called on Obama to fire Dempsey, saying he “has done nothing but invent ways for us not to be engaged.”

Echoing the White House’s stated position, Dempsey said the US needed “a coalition in the region that takes on the task of defeating Isis over time,” something the administration this week has put effort into broadening and strengthening. But the group’s ultimate defeat, the general said, would only come “when it is rejected by the over 20 million disenfranchised Sunnis that happen to reside between Damascus and Baghdad.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/isis-us-military-iraq-strikes-threat-apocalyptic/print

This is no longer just about Iraq. Since Damascus is in Syria, all the way to the Mediterranean and the doorstep to Europe. Many centuries of warfare between the empires, of which the caliphate is planned to be one. And Baghdad is set near the sea on the other end of that stretch of land on the eastern side.

Those 20 million don't all support the Daesh, but that is a huge number and it's not like these people are unable to figure out how to fight to survive. Obama warned Maliki that excluding them them from his government (in revenge for Saddam's oppression of the Shia, I guess) would cause Iraq to break into pieces. So he couldn't fully support Maliki because he didn't govern with inclusion, which would be the only way to have peace.

The result of those fleeing Iraq and impacting other nations created a diasphoria for the new century. The Iraq War was a TEOTWAWKI event and shattered lives and allegiances. The Middle East will be transformed into different nations, because the original fuel for the Daesh is the need of those refugees for a homeland.

Imagine for a moment, an army of 20 million armed and angry and possibly homeless in the USA on the move. Just picture the bloody carnage in the neighboring states in a desperate fight for living space.

The Kurds were accused of being extrene in the past. They managed through the overthrow of Saddam to possess an autonomous region in northern Iraq. The legacy of Bush will hang over us for a generation or more and change the entire world as we know it, too. JMHO.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
11. Turkey is not an innocent bystander in the Syrian war.
Sun Jul 26, 2015, 01:59 AM
Jul 2015

The Turks, along with the Qataris and the Saudis, have been deeply involved in arming anti-Assad factions.

The Turks have also, up to now, turned a blind eye to ISIS--at best--if not downright collaborated with them.

The Turks have tried to extort us into fighting Assad in order to get their help fighting ISIS.

And they keep talking about a no-fly zone along the border. That's a recipe for a direct confrontation between Syrian and US/NATO forces. That's what the Turks want.

And Washington and Paris and London have over the years joined with the Turks, Qataris, and Saudis to effectively block any kind of negotiated settlement to the conflict. Now, at least, it sounds like we're not making "Assad must go" the beginning and end of everything.

You know who could stop ISIS? Iran. It's already propping up both Damascus and Baghdad. Maybe it's time to radically rethink our Middle East policy.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
5. Suspicious timing. What I want to know is, did the U.S. give assurances to Turkey that we would not
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 01:13 PM
Jul 2015

object to, or otherwise interfere in, Turkey breaking the 2013 ceasfire - in return for Turkey allowing us to use their airbase?

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
8. The US considers the PKK a terrorist organization.
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 02:56 PM
Jul 2015

Even though it and it's Syrian affiliate are fighting ISIS in Syria.

Lodestar

(2,388 posts)
13. I'm concerned that Turkey's entrance into the fighting
Sun Jul 26, 2015, 07:07 PM
Jul 2015

after maintaining its relative neutrality for so long marks the beginning of the end in terms of any attempts to keep the growing hostilities from erupting into a much larger war. Turkey is the linchpin and the gateway as well as the central hub for energy and trade. Not a good sign....

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