Toyota, Nissan, Honda back hydrogen stations for fuel cells

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

By YURI KAGEYAMA

TOKYO (AP) — Toyota, Nissan and Honda are working together to get more fuel cell vehicles on roads in what they call Japan's big push toward "a hydrogen society."

Fuel cell vehicles emit no pollution. They run on the power created when hydrogen stored as fuel combines with oxygen in the air to make water.

Hydrogen fueling stations are needed to make the technology a viable option. Only 23 have opened in Japan so far, with hundreds more being planned.

The automakers pledged up to 11 million yen ($90,000) per hydrogen station per year, to build and maintain them.

FULL story at link.



Toyota Motor Corp. executive Kiyotaka Ise, center, Nissan Motor Co. executive Hitoshi Kawaguchi, left, and Honda Motor Co., executive Toshihiro Mibe join hands during a press conference on the collaboration of hydrogen fueling stations in Tokyo, Wednesday, July 1, 2015. Toyota, Nissan and Honda are working together to get more fuel cell vehicles on roads in what they call Japan’s big push toward “a hydrogen society.” (AP Photo/Koji Sasahara)

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/734be0b1cc3849d1a6ec2ed805942070/toyota-nissan-honda-back-hydrogen-stations-fuel-cells

[Kelvin Mace]

1. Economically and scientifically unworkable

1) Most hydrogen is produced from natural gas, so it is NOT a green source.

2) Hydrogen produced by electrolysis requires a massive amount of energy. The best number of I have seen is 64 kWh to produce 1 kg of hydrogen. 1 kg of hydrogen will run a Hyundai Tuscon (the only currently available hydrogen vehicle in the U.S.) 47 miles. The same amount of energy would allow my Nissan Leaf to run 180+ miles (granted, requiring three chargings, but battery capacity is improving year by year).

3) Hydrogen stations cost $1 million plus per station. For that money, you can build 50 fast charging stations.

4) Hydrogen cars are harder to build (Toyota says it will build 3,000 Mirai's in 2016 due to the complexity of the fuel cell) and more expensive than BEVs. A Leaf will set you back $37,000, and HFCV is $50,000 plus. The 2016 Leaf will get 100 miles on a charge (up from 80), and the second gen coming in 2017 is expected to get 150-200 miles on a charge.

5) Every building with an electrical outlet is a potential fueling station for a BEV. Not too many places that can pressurize hydrogen to the 10,000 psi needed to recharge a fuel cell (at the moment their are only eight in California).

Hydrogen is the fuel pushed by the oil/gas industry since the production requires all the familiar tools: Wells, storage tanks, refineries and tanker trucks.

[truthisfreedom]

3. When Tesla is able to set up a network of battery change stations...

THAT will be the true game changer.

[Kelvin Mace]

4. Well, Tesla is way ahead of the HFCV competition

From January through April last year, Tesla opened 39 Supercharger sites with a total of 104 charging points.

As of March 2015.

Nissan plans on having FCs at all dealer locations by 2019-2020.

Again, there are currently 8 HFCV stations, all in California

http://www.cafcp.org/stationmap

[Sancho]

6. I saw a Tesla in a grocery store parking lot yesterday!

I have no idea how they charge it other than at home. We are seeing charging stations appearing now at public places (like universities).

[mrdmk]

2. This is the greatest event since the end of World War II

With an hydrogen bomb on every corner, and we will have a mobile hydrogen bomb on every street.

Just wait for one of these things to go off.

There are more practical, efficient and cheaper forms off individual transportation.

Time to kiss the feet of the beholden oil companies...

[Kelvin Mace]

5. To clarify

you would be talking about the explosive nature of hydrogen gas, and not a hydrogen fusion bomb. That said, I would not want to be around one of these vehicles in an accident.

Hydrogen does have a place as a fuel, with heavy trucks and machinery, but not with commuter vehicles.

[mrdmk]

7. Needed to be more clear in my postings

1) Yes, the explosive nature of hydrogen gas is a hazard. The following is a perfect example:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="

?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


2) Hydrogen, being an element in this universe and beyond can be extracted from many different means. The extraction of choice is from hydrocarbons, namely from oil. The oil companies are pushing for this method. Once again, something simple turns into a cluster by a few major corporations in the name of green technology.

<snip>
Hydrogen production is the family of industrial methods for generating hydrogen. Currently the dominant technology for direct production is steam reforming from hydrocarbons. Many other methods are known including electrolysis and thermolysis.

In 2006, the United States was estimated to have a production capacity of 11 million tons of hydrogen. 5 million tons of hydrogen were consumed on-site in oil refining, and in the production of ammonia (Haber process) and methanol (reduction of carbon monoxide). 0.4 million tons were an incidental by-product of the chlor-alkali process.[1] Hydrogen production is an estimated $100 billion industry.[2]

Currently, the majority of hydrogen (?95%) is produced from fossil fuels by steam reforming or partial oxidation of methane and coal gasification with only a small quantity by other routes such as biomass gasification or electrolysis of water.

link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production