Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are real and God is not 'a magician

[brooklynite]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by NancyBlueINOklahoma (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: The Independent

The theories of evolution and the Big Bang are real and God is not “a magician with a magic wand”, Pope Francis has declared.

Speaking at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, the Pope made comments which experts said put an end to the “pseudo theories” of creationism and intelligent design that some argue were encouraged by his predecessor, Benedict XVI.

SIR ELTON JOHN LABELS POPE FRANCIS 'MY HERO'

Francis explained that both scientific theories were not incompatible with the existence of a creator – arguing instead that they “require it”.

“When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said.

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

[winstars]

1. Heads exploding over on the right in..... HAHAHAHA

What about that museum down south with the caveman riding the dinosaurs???

[brooklynite]

4. But to the evangelicals, isn't the Pope supposed to be the Antichrist?

[winstars]

5. If they do, this should prove it to 'em! nt.

[Dragonfli]

19. No, but many of them believe the Catholic church is some "great whore"

described in psychedelic terms in the book of revelations as I recall, they do believe the pope is an agent of Satan, but disagree between sects as to whether he is knowingly, or unknowingly such.

At least according to a bunch of different "tracts" the fundies were handing out in the eighties that I read with amusement.

[AlbertCat]

24. The Death Cookie

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp

[rpannier]

7. He was criticized by one evangelical 'leader'

The 'leader' said something along the lines of, 'millions of evangelical christians don't believe in evolution'
Like science and math should be open to opinion
He probably thinks that there needs to be a debate about 6 really being bigger than 9

[AlbertCat]

23. that museum down south

KY is not "the South", y'know.

It's up north from where I'm sitting.

[AtheistCrusader]

2. Still doesn't know what he's talking about.

He and his church don't possess any revealed truth about the universe or our place in it.

He should go back to railing about income inequality while remaining the titular head of the wealthiest private entity on the planet.

[Comrade Grumpy]

3. He accepts evolution and the Big Bang and you want to tell him to shut up?

I think it's better to accept a victory graciously.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. No, I just prefer it when he's a more obvious ridiculous hypocrite.

Makes my task easier.

Now I have to show that Pope John Paul II acknowledged the truth of evolution and declared it compatible with Christianity two decades ago, much to the non-notice of the current generation of media critters currently slobbering all over pope Francis, while elements of his church continue to do shit like sue, all the way to the supreme court level, to block the contraception mandate elements of the president's greatest accomplishment, the ACA.

Acknowledging evolution in '96 has done fuck all to bring the RCC into modern times, or stop it from harming non-Catholics the nation over, to say nothing of the whole world. It is a vicious anti-woman, anti-gay, political entity with pockets deep beyond the dreams of the Koch brothers. Fuck it. Forever. Irredeemable.

[demosincebirth]

31. Ho humm.

[rpannier]

8. Oh for fend

The leader of one of the largest groups of people on the planet agrees with us and you want to be unhappy about it
Unless of course, you don't think evolution is correct

[AtheistCrusader]

12. Too little too late.

He's just trying to remain relevant.

In fairness, this isn't even news. Two popes prior accepted evolution as a real thing. October 22nd, 1996. Same for TBBT. So this whole thing was just a waste of electrons.

[rpannier]

13. Trying to stay relevant?

Yes, the man who is the leader of about 1 billion people and has the ear of numerous political and social leaders around the world is trying to be relevant

By nature of his of the office he holds, he is always relevant

[AtheistCrusader]

15. In a bad way, yes.

Destructive, ignorant, anti-human, yes.

Someday, he will not be relevant. Neither his title, nor his mammalian carcass, which is no different from yours and mine.

[AlbertCat]

25. agrees with us

No he doesn't.

He thinks both theories need some creator.

[onehandle]

6. This is basically what I was taught in Catholic school decades ago.

I learned about evolution, economic justice, tolerance for other religions, and the birds and the bees in Catholic school.

And this was in the heart of the Bible Belt.

[bhikkhu]

17. Me too - 8 years of catholic school, no problem with science

I've never understood why so many religious "leaders" in the country put themselves in such an ignorant hole.

[Dragonfli]

20. The best biology teacher I ever had was a Jesuit that taught the subject my freshman year

In a hard to get into (grade wise) Catholic high school.

[progressoid]

9. So, if God no longer has a magic wand, does that mean no more miracles?

[demosincebirth]

32. Do you believe in miracles?

[vanamonde]

10. Definition of "oxymoron"

Pontifical Academy of Sciences.
I guess these are the same people that took 350 years to admit that Galileo was correct?
Nevertheless, I guess this is a step in the right direction.

[Arugula Latte]

11. Strange that he can grasp this, yet

believes a magical dead guy from the Judea of 2,000 years ago is going to come back to Earth. Also, the RCC still does exorcisms, so they think demons exist. In the year 2015, that's what they think. Go figure.

[cosmicone]

18. I like this pope immensely

There is faith and there is science.

The dogma has always asked people to make science fit the faith or reject science altogether. That is an unsustainable position.

The pope is making faith fit the science going against centuries old dogma.

Change comes gradually to large organizations and this pope has moved the church by lightyears in his short term in office.

[FourScore]

21. Me too. n/t

[AlbertCat]

26. The pope is making faith fit the science going against centuries old dogma.

No he isn't. He hasn't accomplished anything close to that.

His understanding of these theories is majorly flawed. There is no need for any kind of creator in any of them.


It's a hamfisted attempt to try to keep his mythology relevant and viable.


Looks like desperation.

[AlbertCat]

22. arguing instead that they “require it”.

Pope Fabulous is still clueless, I see.

Still trying to make the myth of a creator viable. Good try.... but.... nope. No creator needed.

[demosincebirth]

33. I assume you don't believe, so why should you care? It's a puzzlement.

[Cleita]

27. The ad that popped up with this post was a T-shirt ad with Jesus riding a dinosaur.

Holy Moses.

[Larry Engels]

28. He needs to say this ex cathedra.

Then it becomes official Catholic doctrine. Here he is just expressing his own personal views. He may do this at some point. Or maybe not.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

29. A little good news and the atheist show that the can not think

Bartcop often said that stupid people claim to know what others think.


I hate the RCC but feel that only a stupid person would not be happy that the pope is saying something that many people need to understand. It can only help.

[bvf]

35. OFFS.

"Bartcop often said that stupid people claim to know what others think."

Yet over a billion people listen to this asshole to know what he thinks.

Do you see a small problem here?

[SoLeftIAmRight]

36. I do not believe that he says what he thinks

you do - that is the problem

[bvf]

37. I don't recall saying that.

What's your native language, btw?

[SoLeftIAmRight]

39. "asshole" - you call the pope an asshole?

why?

You must have some thoughts about his mind to say something like that - did you fail thinking?

[bvf]

40. Did you fail ESL?

I was willing to give you another chance. You blew it.

Back on ignore with you.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

43. Thank you

This pope knows that he is being played by the church - The church is powerful and thinks very long term. They needed a pope from the america's and they picked one who was not a radical liberation theologist. But, it is in him and they are not our enemy.

[AtheistCrusader]

50. Not my enemy? Here's your friend with a little 'liberation theologist' in him

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/01/17/the-family-is-threatened-read-what-pope-francis-had-to-say-about-gay-marriage-in-asias-most-catholic-country/

Not your enemy? You sure you're on the right website? Homophobes, a billion followers or no, are generally not welcome here. I'm sure he's being 'played by the church', nevermind he said vicious shit like that years before he became pope.

http://nbclatino.com/2013/03/14/pope-francis-and-argentinas-kirchner-have-battled-in-past/

Your little bit liberation theologist pope buddy is a full throated bigot.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

52. please do not be an ass

he is not my buddy

you can twist and squirm all you want - you can not change the fact the telling people that the big bang is real is a good thing

This pope is not a liberation theologist - but he does have some of that thinking

The church like america is strong - I like it better that we have obama not mitt
Same with the pope - it is better this one than bennie the rat

[AtheistCrusader]

53. There is zero daylight between Francis and Ratzinger on same sex marriage, OR the big bang.

Not a photon of difference can squeak between them on those two data points. You are fully ignorant of their positions it seems.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

55. you can not focus very well

All i have said is that it is a good thing that he said the big bang is real

Why are you talking about a rats ass difference?

Focus - It is a good thing that he said these things . Period - end.

[AtheistCrusader]

57. No, it's not a 'good thing'. It's a futile non-event, that at best drags out the death of mythology

a little bit longer in a world where it is increasingly irrelevant.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

59. Every little bit helps

I find it sad that you do not believe that

[AtheistCrusader]

61. And that's where you are woefully ignorant.

It's not a little bit. Not even that. Catholic schools have been teaching TBBT as fact for decades. Pope John Paul II said it 20 years ago, I gave you the year and date, more than enough to find the quote. The pope's target audience already knows about this. American evangelicals (the americans that doubt the big bang theory) don't give a shit what the pope thinks about this issue. THIS pope didn't even have the balls to speak ex cathedra about it. It's meaningless. Less than nothing. Not even a 'little bit' to 'help'.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, but you'll swallow the wonderpope's PR hook line and sinker.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

68. "woefully ignorant" - "You don't know what the fuck you're talking about"

You really seem angry

chill pill

Some people know when to stop digging

[AtheistCrusader]

70. Yeah, i'm surprised you didn't abandon this thread an hour ago.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

72. Lower

down down down

[AtheistCrusader]

44. So I'm the stupid person for knowing this was a free advertising photo op for an issue pope JP II

settled two decades ago, from a liar that pretends evolution needs a causal intelligence, and also uses the moral 'authority' of its invisible friend to keep millions around the globe in poverty, forced to bear children, forced to endure horrible suffering at the end of life rather than an option any of is would humanely offer to a pet without thinking twice, an org that sues to block contraception coverage in the us, that closes adoption orgs rather than be forced by anti-discrimination laws to serve gay couples looking to adopt, no you're right.

*I* must be the stupid one in this conversation.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

46. What do you know about the liberation theology movement?

Seems like not much -

If ted cruz said tomorrow that abortions should be legal and rare would you think that a bad thing?

I am just pointing out that this was a little good news - why are your panties in a wad?

[AtheistCrusader]

48. It would not make me respect him, his constituents, or his party one iota more.

Had his chance. Pretended to knowledge and authority, blew it. Fuck him. He no longer has a respectable place at the table of public discourse.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

49. Wow

I believe that anytime anyone speaks good words there is a chance that some will listen.

51% of Americans don't believe in the Big Bang - any help we can get to stop the stupid is welcome in my book.

I find it sad that your agenda does not make it possible to see value in what this pope said.

[AtheistCrusader]

51. I do not defer any authority or credibility to him. Want to know how the universe works? Where it

started and why? There's actual experts in that field. People who can do the math and show their work without appealing to their imaginary friend.

A man that claims to represent the invisible friend of 1.3bn people admitting TBBT has merit does nothing to erase stupidity. He wasn't the first, an he can't even explain why the theory has merit. He is worthless.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

54. oh really?

"In my view, it is the most important function
of art and science to awaken this [cosmic religious] feeling
and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it.
(Einstein)

https://lincogle.wordpress.com/2014/07/07/about-cosmic-religious-feeling-and-einsteins-views-on-religion/

Albert Einstein once wrote:

“On the other hand, I maintain that the cosmic religious feeling is the strongest and noblest motive for scientific research. Only those who realize the immense efforts and, above all, the devotion without which pioneer work in theoretical science cannot be achieved are able to grasp the strength of the emotion out of which alone such work, remote as it is from the immediate realities of life, can issue. What a deep conviction of the rationality of the universe and what a yearning to understand, were it but a feeble reflection of the mind revealed in this world, Kepler and Newton must have had to enable them to spend years of solitary labor in disentangling the principles of celestial mechanics! Those whose acquaintance with scientific research is derived chiefly from its practical results easily develop a completely false notion of the mentality of the men who, surrounded by a skeptical world, have shown the way to kindred spirits scattered wide through the world and through the centuries. Only one who has devoted his life to similar ends can have a vivid realization of what has inspired these men and given them the strength to remain true to their purpose in spite of countless failures. It is cosmic religious feeling that gives a man such strength. A contemporary has said, not unjustly, that in this materialistic age of ours the serious scientific workers are the only profoundly religious people.” [Albert Einstein, New York Times Magazine, 9 Nov 1930, pg 1-4, reprinted in Albert Einstein, Ideas and Opinions, Crown Publishers, Inc. 1954, pg. 36-40.]

http://experimentalmath.info/blog/2009/06/einstein/

[AtheistCrusader]

56. Not sure why you're quoting someone irrelevant to this issue.

A man who died 20 years before we blew a hole in the steady-state universe theory. Thanks for the random bit of inapplicable nonsense though.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

58. Wow

You scoff at Einstein - you are not worth the time

I will add - If ted cruz goes goes on fox tomorrow and says that global climate change is real and that it is man made - I will be happy

and you?

[AtheistCrusader]

60. Einstein was a brilliant physicist.

I don't give a shit what he thought about metaphysical BS. Not everyone is an expert on every field. Did you think i'd be impressed, regarding him as some kind of hyper-intellect atheist pope? Swing and a miss.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

62. I see you as empty with lots of anger

so much so that you can not see a simple truth

be well

[AtheistCrusader]

63. I, and others in this thread have pointed out the truth, and you refuse to acknowledge it.

You're defending the credibility of a political entity that is actively harming people all around the planet all day, every day. Denying people civil rights. Denying women basic medical care and family planning. Pretending to exorcise 'demons', directly bolstering credibility that 'demons' exist at all, rather than people seeking medical care for very real delusions and mental health issues.

You're defending an entity that is actively working to destroy lives everywhere on this planet.

You go 'be well', however the fuck you define it. I'm not buying.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

64. wow

I have simply said that it was a good thing to say

you go wild

empty

[AtheistCrusader]

65. And I have detailed why it is not only a meaningless platitude, it's a desperate attempt to preserve

the RCC's waning credibility. I view that attempt as a bad thing, from a deceptive source, trying to preserve power and wealth. Keep saying 'wow' though, real genius counterpoint there. Especially when you started this thread fork by calling people stupid.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

67. Keep crusading against your strawmen

have fun

[AtheistCrusader]

69. Point out the strawman. go ahead, i dare you.

Bet you don.t even know what that means.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

73. shakin in my shoes

down down down

[AtheistCrusader]

74. Thanks for confirming you don't know what strawman means. Want to name drop more

Debate foils you don't know anything about?

[SoLeftIAmRight]

75. i only respond to double dog dares

down down down

[AtheistCrusader]

78. Keep making noise. Everyone can see you've got nothing.

I sourced most of the claims I made in this thread, excepting family planning and end of life decisions in catholic countries, because its a sad fucking day if you're not already aware of the RCC's political influence on those issues.

You've offered little more than 'wow' and misused fallacy names.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

79. sounds like it is past your bedtimes

sleep well

[AtheistCrusader]

80. Ta-ta

[bvf]

30. Yawn.

In other news, the Roman Catholic Church acknowledges Galileo may have been closer to the truth after all.

Why the holy fuck, in the year 2015, should this be news?

[Lordquinton]

34. Pope declares no such thing

Old article of the Pope reiterating what his predecessors said. He's still saying it's creationist, just pushed God back to force science into his world view. And he still won't say it with his pope hat on so it's meaningless.

[AtheistCrusader]

45. Exactly. Not ex cathedra, doesn't count.

Might as well be farting the ABC's for all it means.

[Monk06]

38. I guess the Baptists can get back to hating the Papist Hordes again. Sorry Bobby you're not Jesus

enough for the born again crowd.

[Little Tich]

41. So now God Almighty has been reduced to an imaginary friend who gives you moral support in

times of need. That seems like a huge downgrade to me.

[Geronimoe]

42. But who created God?

This is the same as what came first, the chicken or the egg? God created humans and humans created their various gods.

[Behind the Aegis]

47. what came first, the chicken or the egg

[Hekate]

66. Another reason why I like this man. Health and long life to him. nt

[AtheistCrusader]

71. See post 50 and then tell me how very much you like that bigot.

[Hekate]

76. You and I do not agree on much. Let it go. nt

[AtheistCrusader]

77. Generally, I don't think that is true, but there were a couple things in the last weeks.

I find your position on this one disappointing, but I can agree to disagree.

[OKNancy]

81. Locking - article is from 2014