Anti-Semitic attackers yelling 'we will kill you' storm synagogue in London

[Mosby]

Source: Jerusalem Post

A group of approximately 20 youths attacked a local synagogue in the London suburb of Stamford Hill over the weekend, yelling threats, beating worshipers and vandalizing property, according to IsraelHatzolah's official twitter account.

One witness belonging to the "Ahavat Torah" congregation described the mob as shouting "we will kill you" as they proceeded to physically assault the worshipers inside the synagogue and tear apart prayer books.

Another Jewish local who had passed by the scene rushed inside, grabbing one of the suspects with the intention of bringing him to the police, but was quickly overwhelmed by the other attackers and suffered strikes to the face, losing a tooth.

Police confirmed that they were treating the attack as an anti-Semitic incident. Police were called to the scene early on Sunday morning, just after 1 a.m. local time, when a group of intoxicated men, believed to have come from a nearby party, tried to gain entry into the synagogue.

Read more: http://new.jpost.com/Diaspora/Attackers-yelling-we-will-kill-you-storm-synagogue-in-London-suburb-leave-worshipers-bloody-394684

---

Antisemitism is out of control in parts of Europe.

[Helen Borg]

1. Thanks, Bibi.

[Helen Borg]

4. Because people see no difference.

[LeftishBrit]

8. I would be surprised...

if this bunch of thugs even knew who Bibi was.

Anyway, why should Jews in Stamford Hill be punished for the actions of a politician 2000 miles away?

[nomorenomore08]

25. Excellent question. I doubt you'll get an answer. n/t

[mwrguy]

3. +1

[Unvanguard]

6. How convenient to blame Jews for anti-Semitism. n/t

[e-cigdub]

10. oh its real convenient

22 islamic countries like saudi arabia, syria, and afghanistan (where a women was literally murdered by a mob because of koran burning, she had her head kicked in) and others where women are treated like animals or second class citizens. The only country that was criticized for women rights by the UN was..... israel.. THE ONLY country.. because as we all know women have FULL RIGHTS in countries like saudi arabia.

innocent jews attacked in london or paris.. anti semetism.. oh well thats bibis fault. or israels fault. Its okay to hate jews as long as you can use israel and bibi as a excuse. even though MANY jews hate bibi and support a palastanian state. Esp many in europe. But hey if there jews and bibi happens to be a jew then its okay for anti-semetism.

[840high]

17. ...^ that x100 - unbelievable

[ann---]

56. You mean the way

they blame Palestinians for their own slaughter by Israel?

[Behind the Aegis]

58. This has NOTHING to do with Israel.

This was an anti-Semitic attack by a bunch of hoodlums who rushed a synagogue, not an Israeli consulate or embassy, in LONDON. BTW, London is the capitol of the United Kingdom, it is located in England, which is not Israel, nor Palestine.

[wordpix]

59. despite your illogic, it does have to do with attacking Jews

NOTHING to do with Israel? Then pls. tell us why these hoods attacked a synagogue. They just don't like Jewish worshipers?

[harrose]

62. Really? You think the *only* reason anyone would ever attack Jews is because of Israel?

Is it totally inconceivable to you that there are people out there who hate Jews just for being Jews?

(Unless I'm completely misunderstanding you. If so, please let me know...)

[ann---]

88. What other reason

do you believe they would have for "hating Jews" (as you allege)?

Except for the apartheid Israeli government there that suppresses an entire
group of people and wars that kill innocent Palestinian children, what
other reason is there?

[Quackers]

97. Your anti-semitisim is showing and it's not pretty.

This thread is full of your post trying to excuse the violence against the synagogue. You keep asking why else would Jews be attacked if not for Netanyahu? I'll tell you. It's called HATE! Plain and simple. This was a hate crime.

[Unvanguard]

64. Anti-Semitism did not suddenly spring into existence in 1948. n/t

[ann---]

89. But, it was only in Germany

before that. Or are you going to list the biblical times?

[Behind the Aegis]

91. Are you even being remotely serious?!

Anti-Semitism wasn't limited to Germany. This has been happening for over 2000 years and in just about every nation or province in the known world! Jews were kicked out of England, Portugal, Spain. Jews were relocated in the US by General Ulysses S. Grant. Thousands were murdered in Russia during the pogroms. Poland, Hungary, Greece, all murdered their Jews. In South America, synagogues have burned to the ground, Jews murdered....the list goes on and on!

[appalachiablue]

95. Thank heaven, someone who knows history. Last year in reading a book on Nazi Germany there was

a comment by a Jewish leader post war that the Germans were never going to forgive them for Auschwitz. We were at a couples house once for a small dinner at the husband's invitation. In the kitchen when he fumbled opening a wine bottle he wanted to serve and nicked his finger, several of us saw him growl and say, 'look what you made me do', meaning his docile wife who was in the corner speaking to guests. Like me saying that my spouse will never forgive me for the bad shoulder I have from the car accident we had because of his careless driving. How amazing are human capacities for blame, denial and projection.

[MrBig]

92. I hope you are joking

If not, I HIGHLY recommend taking an introductory world history class.

[Behind the Aegis]

68. I suggest you look into what anti-Semitism is and how long it has been around....

...before you start making comments about "illogic." Can you simply not fathom that some people just don't like Jews? What about blacks? Gays? Muslims?

[Codeine]

73. Wait, whut?

Are you seriously saying you don't have a clue about Antisemitism in Europe? Because it sure as shootin' sounds like that's what you're saying.

[melman]

77. WTF?

This post is mind boggling.

[cali]

80. do learn a smidgeon of history, my friend.

[Unvanguard]

63. Who is "they"? What does that have to do with an attack on a synagogue?

Why do people feel the need to interject their opinions about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict whenever Jews are attacked anywhere?

[ismnotwasm]

94. What the fuck?

We are talking about a horrid attack on innocent people in England-- and you bring up Israel? What purpose does that serve, exactly?

[LeftishBrit]

7. This sort of thing was going on long before Bibi.

[still_one]

76. Yes it was, and it wasn't just in Europe either. It has happened in the US also

[840high]

16. Bibi had nothing to do with this.

[JI7]

18. yeah, because those fuckers are just heartbroken over Palestinians and care about deal with IRan

[geek tragedy]

23. These thugs are bigots because they are bigots, not because of what happens

in a foreign country thousands of miles away.

[ann---]

90. But, why do you think

people allegedly "hate" the Jews?

[ismnotwasm]

93. How about millennia of lies distortion and propaganda against the Jewish people?

The multiple diaspora's? The historical history-repeats-itself persecutions? The current white supremist movement, while they HATE blacks, hate and blame Jewish people for-- everything. The constant and continuous micro-aggressions, in the form of jokes or just plain incorrect assumptions about Jewish people? The conspiracy theorists who believe that Jewish people control--everything?

[cali]

79. disturbing response.

[Scootaloo]

5. Judging from the video...

You've got three chav-tastic fuckfaces using the doorway of a synagogue as their chosen brawling station.

On the inside, you have Furry Hoodie Guy. He's clearly trying to provoke and prolong the situation, while his friends try to hold him back and calm him down. he's the one goading the people outside to "come in! bring it on! fuck you! come in you'll fucking die!"

On the outside, you have Short-Sleeve Hoodie guy, who tries to rush the door, and Tan Jacket guy, who hurls whatever-that-is through the window at the end of the clip.

The fight seems to be between these three goons, while everyone else seems to be busy trying to keep them apart and bring hte situation down (which doesn't appear to be working, but then it rarely does)

[Trillo]

11. Jury results

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
On Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:45 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Judging from the video...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1046053

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Now that's going too far, describing with heavy bias on what's in the video. It's time for him to take a hit on this one.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 22, 2015, 03:06 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Poster may be wrong about what is being described, but nothing here seems hideable.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alert comments are too enigmatic. "Now that's going too far?" "It's time for 'him' to take a hit ...?" Who's 'him?' What is the basis for 'going too far?' Alert needs some kind of support in order for this juror to render an opinion. Otherwise, this sounds like a personal vendetta. Try again on another post, alerter. And this time be more professional.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: ALERT FAIL
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This post appears to be heavy sarcasm or humor and I vote to leave it. I cannot compare it to the video itself due to unknown technical reasons:
"If you’re getting a player error message, most of the time, the video should start working again in about 30 minutes. This error can happen due to a number of factors, such as issues with your Internet Service Provider (ISP), number of connected users or devices, your hardware and software configuration, your internet connection, or problems with the video itself.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Scootaloo]

13. Weird

Maybe the alerter could do me the favor of explaining how I'm "going too far"?

[840high]

19. You didn't go too far.

[Skittles]

75. sounds like a stalker to me

and a none too intelligent one at that

[Mosby]

12. it appears to me that quite a bit happened before the video started

Both windows of the shul doors are already broken at the beginning of the video. In the beginning of the video someone throws a chair through the open door. Where did the chair come from? Probably from inside the shul, so it's likely that the shul was attacked and invaded, and then the perps were repelled back outside, that's when the video starts.

[Scootaloo]

14. Yeah, it's clearly not a thorough documentation or anything

Going on the dialogue and shown actions though, it definitely looks like it's a personal thing between Furry Hoodie guy and the two outside It looks like the sort of thing you'd find on World Star.

[geek tragedy]

28. Well, you were completely wrong about this, it was a bunch of thugs invading

a house of worship and attacking the people inside.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-32007767

A Metropolitan Police spokesman said a number of people entered the synagogue on Craven Park Road, but they were removed shortly afterwards by security staff.

"The incident is being treated as an anti-Semitic incident, due to remarks made by one of the group," said the Met spokesman.

"At this early stage, there is no suggestion that this was a far-right or extremist attack but rather the completely unacceptable actions of a drunken group."
'Increased patrols'

Four men and two women were arrested at the scene but police are looking for anyone else involved in the incident.

Rabbi Maurice Davis, of the Ahavas Torah synagogue, told the BBC: "I think this incident was more anti-social than anti-Semitic.

Where you went wrong was the "blame the victim" approach wherein you faulted a Jew--barricaded inside his own synagogue that had been invaded by these violent thugs--for using harsh words and attributed equal culpability between him and the violent invaders.

[oberliner]

31. Some folks are keen on minimizing anti-semitic violence whenever possible

It speaks to larger issues.

[Scootaloo]

32. I didn't blame any victims, geek

I blamed three of the people in the video, for what is presented in that video. The other people trapped inside are victims, but that oen dude is a dumbass whose actions aren't heloing a goddamned thing.

pardon me if i think "Come on, you pussies! bring it! yeah fuck you! come in, I'll fucking kill you!" is a pretty dumb way to deal with this sort of situation - especially when the people around you are obviously trying to get you to stop.

[geek tragedy]

34. That is false equivalence, blaming the VICTIM for defending his own synagogue against violent

invaders as much as you blame only some of the invaders.

Of course he was belligerent--he was frightened and terrorized by violent goons invading his house of worship.

What you refused to do was acknowledge that the provocation was the cause.

So, you pretty much gave the invaders a free pass for their provocation.

[Scootaloo]

37. The false equivalence is yours, geek

wherein pointing out that an egotistical asshole inside tryuing to keep a fight going is keeping the fight going somehow equals "giving hte invaders a free pass"

No, my friend, the only way to give the assholes outside a free pass for what htey are doing, is to actually give them a free pass for what they are doing.

I get that you wish that's what i were saying. No, really, i do, since it lets you feel that amazing rush of righteous outrage. Sadly, i'm not giving them such a pass at all. of course they're the crux and instigators of the problem.

But goading them to keep up the attack isn't helpful.

[geek tragedy]

39. You gave most (4/6) of the invaders a complete free pass, and you purposefully ignored the invasion

itself. In other words, you decided to pretend that the initial provocation did not happen.

You've got three chav-tastic fuckfaces using the doorway of a synagogue as their chosen brawling station.

So you started right away PRETENDING THAT THERE HAD BEEN NO INVASION. So right away you are giving the group of invaders a pass for being invaders. Straight up.

Moroever, you state that the Jew inside, along with only 2/6 of the invaders "CHOSE" to use that area as a brawl. Which is victim-blaming bullshit. He did not choose a brawl at all. A violent invasion of his house of worship was forced upon him.

The only ones who chose that location for a violent encounter were the violent invaders.

So, that's both willfully false equivalence, and victim-blaming. Much like saying a rape victim chose a location for a violent encounter if she resists.

On the inside, you have Furry Hoodie Guy. He's clearly trying to provoke and prolong the situation, while his friends try to hold him back and calm him down. he's the one goading the people outside to "come in! bring it on! fuck you! come in you'll fucking die!"

You blamed the Jew in the hoodie for "clearly trying to provoke and prolong the situation" and "goading the people outside."

Again, this is defensible only if you deliberately choose to pretend that there had been no invasion.

On the outside, you have Short-Sleeve Hoodie guy, who tries to rush the door, and Tan Jacket guy, who hurls whatever-that-is through the window at the end of the clip.

No mention of their violent invasion of the synagogue. In your version of events, the mouthy Jew in the synagogue picked a fight with these guys and 'provoked' and "goaded" them into a violent reaction.

The fight seems to be between these three goons, while everyone else seems to be busy trying to keep them apart and bring hte situation down (which doesn't appear to be working, but then it rarely does)

And there it is--only three guilty parties! Even though a party of SIX people violently invaded the synagogue. But in your view, most of the invaders were blameless, and indeed just innocent victims trying to smooth over a dispute you viewed as being largely driven by a mouthy Jew.

It is much the attitude one sees from the hasbara crowd towards Palestinians. Bitter irony, that.

[Scootaloo]

43. You're missing something...

Oh, here it is!

Judging from the video...

Also this exchange:

it appears to me that quite a bit happened before the video started

Both windows of the shul doors are already broken at the beginning of the video. In the beginning of the video someone throws a chair through the open door. Where did the chair come from? Probably from inside the shul, so it's likely that the shul was attacked and invaded, and then the perps were repelled back outside, that's when the video starts.

Yeah, it's clearly not a thorough documentation or anything

Going on the dialogue and shown actions though, it definitely looks like it's a personal thing between Furry Hoodie guy and the two outside It looks like the sort of thing you'd find on World Star.

I can go by what I see. and what I see resembles any number of testosterone fights I saw in high school. Is that the whole situation? of course not. This is something i agree with Mosby on. I try to not agree with Mosby about anything, it seems unhealthy. But yes, there's absolutely more that the video does not show.

Now, to your post...

You blamed the Jew in the hoodie for "clearly trying to provoke and prolong the situation" and "goading the people outside."

Well, that's exactly what he's doing. I've been that guy. He's doing what you do, when you want someone to charge over and try to beat your ass, because you think you can beat theirs.

Maybe you're not familiar with the world of brawling. And kudos to you for that, I don't recommend gaining familiarity.

Again, this is defensible only if you deliberately choose to pretend that there had been no invasion.

It's because they're being attacked that I criticism him, because what he's doing is trying to keep the attack going so he can "prove" what a little badass he is. Of course the blame lies with the assholes outside, I'm simply noting that yelling at them to keep attacking is going to encourage them to, you know, keep attacking. Without Mouthy Mario motherfucker, maybe they'd keep it up anyway. Maybe they'd wander off in their drunken stupor. I don't know. I do know he's not helping the situation and is contributing to the other people's risk.

No mention of their violent invasion of the synagogue. In your version of events, the mouthy Jew in the synagogue picked a fight with these guys and 'provoked' and "goaded" them into a violent reaction.

Where did I say he picked the fight? I didn't, nor did I imply it. I said he's trying to prolong the fight, because, well, he is.

And there it is--only three guilty parties! Even though a party of SIX people violently invaded the synagogue. But in your view, most of the invaders were blameless, and indeed just innocent victims trying to smooth over a dispute you viewed as being largely driven by a mouthy Jew.

I'm afraid that must be your view, geek, 'cause it's not mine.

In my view is a video where two assholes are attacking the door of a synagogue, while a handfull of other mooks mill around outside mostly being useless but occasionally making gestures of holding those idiots back. Inside are a bunch of people trying to keep idiot #1 and idiot #2 the fuck out of their synagogue, while a third moron is goading them on with his ridiculous macho posturing. There's some other stuff with Fred Durst apparently striking up a conversation, and a guy getting pulled inside, neither of which i quite understand, nor presume to opine on because they confuse me (maybe someone ho can decipher the accent can illustrate for me?) And hten two tippy chicks apologize, becuase oh yeah that's helpful thanks.

Are the people outside victims? maybe of poor social decisions and a lack of quality upbringing. But in this particular situation? No, nor have I asserted they were. That's entirely your assertion, geek, 'cause you're its only source.

Was it being "largely driven by a mouthy jew"? no, it's largely driven by two assholes attacking the door. Furry hoody Guy has decided to show off how macho he is by catcalling and threatening them. Which is, as i note above, the ort of action of someone who wants another idiot to rush over and start throwing punches. Afain, this is wholly from your imagination, rather than anything I have said.

[geek tragedy]

46. Except you still clung to the false narrative.

definitely looks like it's a personal thing between Furry Hoodie guy and the two outside

As has been established beyond any possible doubt, it was not a 'personal thing' between this guy and two individuals on the outside. It was a gang of drunk thugs invading a synagogue, resulting in a dispute between (a) the gang of thuggish invaders and (b) the people inside trying to defend themselves.

And you attribute a malicious motive to the guy who's being belligerent, instead of acknowledging that maybe he's just amped up on adrenaline and scared. Yes, you may know how brawlers operate, but this guy is not a brawler. He's some skinny kid at saturday evening worship service cornered in a room by violent invaders who's running on hormones.

This is not a "testosterone fight"--it's a violent invasion with people who were not looking for a fight suddenly cornered and forced into a fight. When people are forced into a fight, on a hormonal level they respond with aggression in turn. This is programmed into our DNA and biochemistry.

And, still this line?

t's largely driven by two assholes attacking the door

From the article:

According to local sources in Stamford Hill, which is home to one of the largest ultra-Orthodox Jewish communities in Europe, the incident started at a house in the neighborhood where a party was ending and a number of young drunken men and women spilled out onto the street, starting a fight with two Jewish men who were not religious nor wearing a kippa.

After considerable pushing and shoving, the Jewish men decided to take refuge in the entrance hall to the nearby Ahavas Torah Synagogue.

The two men reached the synagogue area of the building, seeking the help of those inside, who taking part in a communal meal.

Those inside the synagogue, having already called the police, were left alone for approximately 15 minutes to fend off repeated attempts by the youths to enter the synagogue. Those inside used parts of broken chairs and mops for protection. Other furniture was broken as the drunken troublemakers attempted to reach the two men When the police arrived, several of the assailants were reportedly chased down nearby streets until six were caught, cautioned, arrested and subsequently held in custody.

Given that six people were arrested, hard to imagine how one comes up with the idea that it was just two assholes, plus one guy who was insufficiently gracious to their presence, who were to blame.,

[Scootaloo]

48. I stated what the video depicts.

I'm terribly sorry that the video does actually depict two guys trading insults and threats with a third while all three are trying to get at each other. You have my apologies for the fact that I have seen this exact sort of behavior a lot of times when I was younger, even did the same macho 'come at me, bro!' bullshit. I regret that I could not apply information that I have today to a post I made yesterday. Clearly I have failed your standards of omniscience, just as critically as you have failed by standards of reality-based discourse.

And you attribute a malicious motive to the guy who's being belligerent, instead of acknowledging that maybe he's just amped up on adrenaline and scared. Yes, you may know how brawlers operate, but this guy is not a brawler. He's some skinny kid at saturday evening worship service cornered in a room by violent invaders who's running on hormones.

What he's doing is trying to keep the fight hot. That's exactly what he is doing. You can clutch your pearls until your fingers break, but that doesn't change what he's doing. Nor does it change the reality that by doing so, he is risking other people. Now you're cool with that. You're cool with the idea that maybe these other people get beat up because he runs into their Shul and decides to engage in trash-talk from behind their door and persons.

I'm not cool with it.

This is not a "testosterone fight"--it's a violent invasion with people who were not looking for a fight suddenly cornered and forced into a fight. When people are forced into a fight, on a hormonal level they respond with aggression in turn. This is programmed into our DNA and biochemistry.

Yes, actually, when some guy dives into a shul to escape a fight (can't blame him for that) and then turns around and starts with the fucking fight club macho-off bullshit (can totally blame him) it is a testosterone fight.

And, still this line?

Given that six people were arrested, hard to imagine how one comes up with the idea that it was just two assholes, plus one guy who was insufficiently gracious to their presence, who were to blame.,

Only two are engaging in violence in the video. The other four - again, in context of the video - are trespassing, or harassing. They're obviously part of the problem, never said they weren't. But it's just the two who are being violent, at least that we can see.

[geek tragedy]

50. asdf

does actually depict two guys trading insults and threats with a third while all three are trying to get at each other

No, it doesn't. It shows a group of drunks trying--repeatedly--to force their way into a synagogue--with members of the synagogue both shouting and brandishing weapons at them.

The mouthy Jewish guy was not trying to get at those two. They were trying to force their way in. He was part of a group blocking their path. There was no one between him and them. He did not charge them.

I regret that I could not apply information that I have today to a post I made yesterday. Clearly I have failed your standards of omniscience

This information was available in the article linked to in the OP.

What he's doing is trying to keep the fight hot. That's exactly what he is doing. You can clutch your pearls until your fingers break, but that doesn't change what he's doing. Nor does it change the reality that by doing so, he is risking other people. Now you're cool with that. You're cool with the idea that maybe these other people get beat up because he runs into their Shul and decides to engage in trash-talk from behind their door and persons.

You're entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts. You've maintained at various times he was hiding behind other people, yet he was up front. Also, he is wearing a kippa. Which matters, because you apparently didn't read what I excerpted.

the incident started at a house in the neighborhood where a party was ending and a number of young drunken men and women spilled out onto the street, starting a fight with two Jewish men who were not religious nor wearing a kippa.

After considerable pushing and shoving, the Jewish men decided to take refuge in the entrance hall to the nearby Ahavas Torah Synagogue.

So, the fact that this guy is wearing an kippa whereas the two who were accosted were not means . . . you again misstated facts.

Yes, actually, when some guy dives into a shul to escape a fight (can't blame him for that) and then turns around and starts with the fucking fight club macho-off bullshit (can totally blame him) it is a testosterone fight.

See above. You are operating from a set of factually false assumptions. It is a testosterone fight, but due exclusively to the aggression of the invaders.

Only two are engaging in violence in the video. The other four - again, in context of the video - are trespassing, or harassing. They're obviously part of the problem, never said they weren't. But it's just the two who are being violent, at least that we can see.

Well, you just contradicted this statement:

You've got three chav-tastic fuckfaces using the doorway of a synagogue as their chosen brawling station.

you've admitted that the only violence was coming from the invaders, and that the mouthy Jewish guy didn't engage in violence, and you've also admitted that he didn't 'choose' this location for any kind of brawl, but rather that it was forced upon the synagogue members by the unilateral actions of the drunk thugs

and this statement:

The fight seems to be between these three goons, while everyone else seems to be busy trying to keep them apart and bring hte situation down (which doesn't appear to be working, but then it rarely does)

as you've again admitted that the mouthy Jewish guy wasn't engaged in any violence, and that the only violence was directed by the aggressors towards all of the Jews collectively inside that synagogue. Also, you've also admitted that it is not true that "everyone else" besides the two violent drunks and the mouthy Jewish guy were "busy trying to keep them apart to bring the situation down." Clearly, from the video no one inside the synagogue is trying to restrain the mouthy Jewish guy--all of their efforts are focused in repelling the invaders. And that the other invaders were indeed not trying to separate everyone and bring the situation down, but were complicit in provoking the conflict.

Why you claimed otherwise remains a mystery.

Also, this:

it definitely looks like it's a personal thing between Furry Hoodie guy and the two outside

proved to be untrue, as it was a standoff between the two goons trying to force their way in and EVERYONE ELSE IN THE SYNAGOGUE. Indeed, the fact that they were brandishing chairs, slide rules, and mop handles against those two in order to deter further aggression is pretty much proof that it wasn't just a personal thing between the two invaders and the mouthy Jewish guy. The two invaders don't even pay that much attention to him.

[Scootaloo]

52. One thing before bed...

You're entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts. You've maintained at various times he was hiding behind other people, yet he was up front. Also, he is wearing a kippa. Which matters, because you apparently didn't read what I excerpted.

I did in fact read that, which is why I made the note of it. It's a pretty big factor in the forming of my stated opinions actually. As i'm saying, I saw a guy who seemed to have ducked into a synagogue for shelter, then turned into Action Hero Badass.

Just to prove you wrong, I just went back, watched it in larger version... You're right. I was thinking it was his hair, the back end of a short roach cut.

So i re-started the video to see if there might be anything else. And yes; there are other things going on there that I'd missed the first few times around. Most glaringly, another shitstain in a black coat assaulting the door. How the fuck did I miss that dude? Like seriously, he was nowhere on the radar.

So yeah. I'm going to tip my hat. What I described was what the video looked like. However, after discussion and re-watch at better detail, what it looks like has changed quite a bit. Your weird making shit up and trying to put it in my mouth was certainly unneeded and baseless, but yes, I got this wrong, and apologize for that.

[geek tragedy]

53. cheers, thank you, and and good night nt

[LanternWaste]

54. Of more accurately, how you interpreted what the video depicts.

" stated what the video depicts..."

Of more accurately, how you interpreted what the video depicts.

[geek tragedy]

27. that's a really bizarre take on it. You have Jews cornered inside their own synagogue

so yeah "furry hoodie guy" is going to sound a little belligerent at the racist thugs vandalizing his mosque and terrorizing everyone inside.

Can't say I agree with the false equivalence, both sides are equally guilty take on this.

[Scootaloo]

29. I don't recall saying "both sides are guilty"

I said it looks like a brawl and screaming match that centers around those three chavs, with the people on the inside being caught up in their horseshit.

[geek tragedy]

30. While completely ignorning the context that the Jews were cornered inside a room inside their

own synagogue. Which had been violently invaded.

And, when one Jew responds in an entirely justifiable and undertandable manner to a violent invasion, you did play the "both sides are guilty" card since you said he was one of the main drivers of the conflict.

As if it were just some random shouting match that occurred in a bar, rather than as the result of a criminal assault on a place of worship.

The center, and cause, of the conflict was the invaders. They were the provocation, the invaders, the aggresors; the guy defending his own people from the attack was not.

Period.

Note that, per the police, your spin on this turned out to be 100% inaccurate.

Would you have had the same take on this had it been Israeli settlers forcing their way into a mosque in the West Bank?

[Scootaloo]

33. He wasn't defending shit, he wanted to whip his dick around and didn't care who got hurt for his ego

That dipass WAS driving the conflict, at least what's depicted in the video.

Chair dude and the Rabbi were playing defense. This guy was

[geek tragedy]

35. Once again, you give the invaders a complete pass for their act of provocation and

aggression, while blaming the people who were inside and scared shitless for acting on adrenaline.

This does speak to a complete lack of empathy for the Jews inside.

Would you offer people tea and cakes if they kicked your front door in?

Seriously, six violent assholes force their way into a house of worship, start breaking shit, and you sit there and act all aghast that one of the people being terrorized was belligerent?

Adrenaline means "fight or flight" except that flight wasn't an option because they were cornered inside their own synagogue by the violent invaders.

Blaming the victim, excusing the aggressor, ignoring the cause of the conflict.

Between the invader and the defender there is only one party to blame.

There would be no conflict if the invaders did not go where they did not belong.

[Scootaloo]

38. And once again, your imagination is taking over your mouth

Once again, you give the invaders a complete pass for their act of provocation

No, i'm noting that Furry Hoodie guy isn't helping hte situation at all.

This does speak to a complete lack of empathy for the Jews inside.

Hardly, I see them as victims trapped in the building with a pack of growling assholes on one side of hte door, and another asshole who seems determined to keep them around on their side of the door. i have little empathy for Furry Hoodie Guy, i suppose.

Would you offer people tea and cakes if they kicked your front door in?

No, I'd be there with Chair Dude and the Rabbi working to keep the assholes outside and the door shut.

Seriously, six violent assholes force their way into a house of worship, start breaking shit, and you sit there and act all aghast that one of the people being terrorized was belligerent?

I'm not aghast that he's belligerent. I'm saying his actions are at the very least counter-productive, and very possibly putting his friends in danger by goading the morons outside and giving them a reason (in their minds) to stick around.

Adrenaline means "fight or flight" except that flight wasn't an option because they were cornered inside their own synagogue by the violent invaders.

And I get that. I do. it doesn't prevent you from being a dumb ass, though, as Furry Hoodie guy shows us. I'm sure everyone in there is fucking terrified, but he's the only one who seems to be looking for a fight - the rest just want the assholes to go the fuck away.

Blaming the victim, excusing the aggressor, ignoring the cause of the conflict.

You wish.

Between the invader and the defender there is only one party to blame.

There would be no conflict if the invaders did not go where they did not belong.

We agree. I wasn't talking about blame, however. I said that in the video, it looks like a confrontation between three knucklehead Chavs, with the other people in the Synagogue getting stuck in an awful situation.

[geek tragedy]

40. "a confrontation between three knucklehead Chavs,"

And:

it definitely looks like it's a personal thing between Furry Hoodie guy and the two outside

And:

That dipass WAS driving the conflict,

Except this is completely and obviously false.

It's a conflict between the six invaders and the people inside the synagogue. As the police report indicates. Because they arrested all six invaders. And arrested none of the people inside the synagogue, including the Jew you fault for being too mouthy towards the invaders.

When you characterize it as "a confrontation between three knucklehead Chavs" you willfully ignore the provocation of the violent invasion in the first place. And the actual conflict--between six invaders and the synagogue's congregation.

Was he not helping things? Probably. But that's what happens when people get scared for their life, they run on emotions.

I certainly do not judge him for reacting that way. Let alone place primary blame on him.

I think you have internalized too much of the Israel/Palestine debate. Your take on the events here was egregiously inaccurate in just about every aspect, and aligned perfectly with the stance you take vis a vis Israel/Palestine in terms not of actual behavior, but rather the religion of the participants.

The Jews blame none of the culpability in this episode. Not one of them, not for anything.

[Scootaloo]

45. From the video, it does indeed look like a personal issue between those three

Does the video tell the complete story? No, certainly not. But what it depicts is what i described.

And yes, the dude's posturing, insults, catcalls, and threats drove the conflict.

It's a conflict between the six invaders and the people inside the synagogue. As the police report indicates. Because they arrested all six invaders. And arrested none of the people inside the synagogue, including the Jew you fault for being too mouthy towards the invaders.

I don't fault him for "being too mouthy," I fault him for the fact what he was doing contributed to the risk other people around him faced. You acknowledge it "wasn't helpful," well that's what that fucking MEANS. He was trying to keep the fight hot. This could have resulted in people in the shul getting hurt worse than they were - particularly the Rabbi and Chair Guy, seeing as they were right there at the door, and would have taken the brunt if those assholes outside had done what Fur Hoodie Guy was encouraging them to do. While standing in the back.

The blame of course falls on the assholes doing the attacking. But Fur Hoodie Guy deserves plenty of criticism for what he was doing in the situation as well.

I italicize to show you that these are different concepts, and you are clearly unaware of that fact.

I think you have internalized too much of the Israel/Palestine debate. Your take on the events here was egregiously inaccurate in just about every aspect, and aligned perfectly with the stance you take vis a vis Israel/Palestine in terms not of actual behavior, but rather the religion of the participants.

You think so? That's nice. I think you're looking for a fight, know you can't actually get one, and have to make up shit in order to try to get a rise.

it's interesting how "my take" is entirely your imagination.

Maybe you ought to go look for a middle school brawl with someone else, geek. Fur Hoodie Guy might oblige you, but more likely, he'd just run and hide and hope you beat up his rabbi instead.

[geek tragedy]

47. "the dude's posturing, insults, catcalls, and threats drove the conflict. "

No, it didn't. The gang of thugs outside wanted to beat the shit out of a couple of Jews whom they chased into the synaogue.

That's what was driving the conflict.

Hoodie guy was reacting to the conflict. A conflict that was hot not because he was mouthy, but rather because violent thugs were hell-bent on getting at a couple of Jews they had chased in there.

He wasn't trying to "keep the conflict hot"--the conflict was hot and staying hot because the thugs wanted to beat the shit out of a couple of Jews they had chased inside.

The reason they didn't come inside was because the Jews inside were acting in a belligerent, aggressive, and violent posture towards them.

Not because cooler heads were prevailing.

When someone tries to break into your house, threatening them with violence is pretty much the only sensible approach.

The conflict ended when cops/security arrived and the thugs turned tail and fled.

[Scootaloo]

49. Okay, so now your position is that he WAS being helpful?

You know, it's one thing if you're going to keep claiming that your imagination is the same as my words. But if you're just going to keep changing your positions and arguments, I don't have the energy for it, sorry.

No, it didn't. The gang of thugs outside wanted to beat the shit out of a couple of Jews whom they chased into the synaogue.

That's what was driving the conflict.

I think perhaps we're using "driving" differently? Tell you what, i'll cede it to you and stick with "furthering," on the assumption that I'm using "driving" incorrectly to avoid repetition.

The hoodlums outside are of course the crux of the problem. We agree on that much. They're the ones who did the chasing, and stuck around to keep up the fight. The blame is theirs in whole.

However, we get this dude who chucks into a synagogue to get away from them, and starts with the trash talk and threats. You're right, it's likely reactionary to having his ass chased into there by the people outside. This does not change the fact that his doing that adds more fuel to the already-existing problem.

He wasn't trying to "keep the conflict hot"--the conflict was hot and staying hot because the thugs wanted to beat the shit out of a couple of Jews they had chased inside.

That's exactly what he's doing. I know it's inconvenient for your argument, where he is a perfect angel with no flaws or faults... but he is in fact trying to keep the fight going. And he doesn't need to be flawless and perfect for him to be considered one of the victims (my lack of empathy for him is, as i noted, due to his risking other people for his machismo)

The reason they didn't come inside was because the Jews inside were acting in a belligerent, aggressive, and violent posture towards them.

Having watched the video, it seems more likely due to the efforts of the Rabbi and a big dude with a chair trying ot kee pthe doors closed and barred.

The conflict ended when cops/security arrived and the thugs turned tail and fled.

So the suddenly-very-helpful "come at me bro!" peacocking didn't make them flee in terror, huh?

[geek tragedy]

51. Why are you assuming this guy ran into the synagogue from outside?

He's wearing a kippa, and the two that were chased were not wearing kippas.

Also keeping them at bay was the guy who held up the triangular wooden thing and brandished that as he would a tomahawk.

How do you infer that he was trying to prolong the fight rather than reacting out of fear and adrenaline? The fight wasn't going to end until the people stopped trying to get inside.

Yes, raised voices rarely calm a situation down. But, this one guy yelling did nothing to merit being lumped in with the invaders as one of the parties responsible for the conflict.

[Bluenorthwest]

41. The fact is, if one is opposed to crimes motivated by bias against religion, one opposes all such

crimes and here are the FBI stats for 2013:
Of the 1,223 victims of anti-religious hate crimes:

60.3 percent were victims of crimes motivated by their offenders’ anti-Jewish bias.
13.7 percent were victims of anti-Islamic (Muslim) bias.
6.1 percent were victims of anti-Catholic bias.
4.3 percent were victims of bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
3.8 percent were victims of anti-Protestant bias.
0.6 percent were victims of anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
11.2 percent were victims of bias against other religions (anti-other religion).

So there you have it. Of course there are more bias crimes against LGBT than against all religions combined, and more against African Americans than against LGBT and all religions combined.
So I'd say if you wish to see a reduction in bias crimes against one group, the only way is to be strongly opposed to all such crimes against any group.

[Scootaloo]

44. Absolutely agree

[laserhaas]

61. Cocnur

Bias, prejudice and violence against anything but ebol

is ebol!

[strawberries]

67. you sound like you are blaming

the raped woman for wearing shorts to short

[Scootaloo]

71. I was wrong. See Post 52

[strawberries]

72. my apologize

how big of you

[colsohlibgal]

15. So Completely Disturbing

I'll never ever get it, hating on someone because they don't believe the same about our genesis, what's what about life. It's madness and it's been going on forever.

Jews seem to be a convenient target. I'm not Jewish, but have had many Jewish friends, including my best friend ever. Most of them were not terribly serious about it, at least around me.

What's going on now overseas against the Jews is kind of a twisted version of collective memory fading, much like with the Measles resurgence.

Religion has just caused so much death, other bloodshed, hatred. Everyone should be tied down and forced to watch 'Religulous".

Meanwhile I'm a confirmed agnostic, I'm not sure how we got here. All I know is that at some point there had to be nothing and somehow something came about. Really that's all anybody knows when you get right down to it, despite what some profess. In the end maybe aliens from another dimension seeded us here, who really knows? I guess I think like that because 1) I'm a bit of an egghead gal and2) I was not inculcated (brainwashed) in my youth.

[NaturalHigh]

20. "group of intoxicated men, believed to have come from a nearby party"

Apparently this is just some sort of fun for these jerks. I hope they're all caught and locked up.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. Signs of more to come?

Given some of the reactions to this news, seems it is our (Jews') fault any way.

This type of story reminds of some of the shit I dealt with when I was in college, except it wasn't drunks looking to "bash Jews," they would go out looking to bash gays, as our bars usually closed much later.

[sakabatou]

22. I hope not

[Behind the Aegis]

24. London's Jews 'fear racial attacks'

London has become a sanctuary for French Jews hoping to escape anti-Semitism in recent years.

But there are growing fears about security for Jewish people in the wake of recent attacks and racial abuse abroad.

Jewish school children in London say they are being forced to hide their religious identity because of fear of being attacked.

With levels of anti-semitism on the rise, children as young as eight have been targeted, including a Hasidic boy who was pelted with stones and a group of Jewish girls who were terrorised by a man threatening to kill them.

more...

[PoliticAverse]

26. BBC News: Six arrested after Stamford Hill synagogue attack

Six people have been arrested after a group forced its way into a synagogue in what police have described as an "anti-Semitic" incident.

Police said the drunk men had just left a nearby party and tried to get into the synagogue in Stamford Hill, north London, in the early hours of Sunday.

One man was punched in the face as he tried to stop them.

The six were held for public order offences and assault. Police said one man had made an anti-Semitic comment.

Read the rest at: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-32007767

[Sunlei]

36. the drunk children of the damned

[Fred Sanders]

42. Jews and Muslims in Europe are political allies in the struggle against racism and bigotry.

[cali]

81. that would be nice. It's largely a false narrative, however.

[oberliner]

84. That is definitely not true

Often the source of racism and bigotry towards Jews in Europe comes from Muslims - and vice versa.

[ann---]

55. Nuttyahoo's lies

and his rule by apartheid will spark a terrible backlash. I don't feel sorry for
Israel any more.

[Behind the Aegis]

57. Once again, this has NOTHING to do with Israel nor Netanyahu.

Your feelings about Israel really aren't relevant...or...

What is obvious is that when every anti-Semitism is the topic, there are those more than willing to blame Jews or at least shift the blame to partially blame Jews.

[Unvanguard]

65. I'm so glad the actions of some Jews make you apparently indifferent to attacks on any Jews anywhere

Sounds progressive.

[MrBig]

66. Making excuses for the perpetrators

What a disgusting post.

I guess it's open season on Jews worldwide in your opinion, as any anti-Semitic attack is Israel's fault.

[Behind the Aegis]

69. Apparently not the only one who thinks this way.

Apparently to not think this attack has something to do with Israel is "illogic."

[ann---]

83. So what do you

believe is the reason for that incident of anti-semitism?

[MrBig]

85. Simple - Hatred of Jews

It's been going on for thousands of years - people can make excuses for hateful behaviors, but at the end of the day, it all boils down to the same thing: hating another group because they are different in some manner (race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc).

[ann---]

86. But, what, in particular

do you think suddenly sparked that action? It sounded like
a drunken brawl.

Lots of people don't hate Jews - they oppose the
Israeli government for what their leaders have done
to the Palestinian children over many years while
sneakily stealing their land by settlements.

Lots of Jews also don't like the Israeli government.

I'm not condoning violence of any sort against anyone - period.

[Behind the Aegis]

87. They were drunk...in vino veritas

Sometimes the bigotry is very simple. If you want to know why they hate Jews you will have to ask them.

[Codeine]

74. Oh please stop going on about Israel. This has fuck-all to do with that.

Lots and lots of people hate Jews. They hated them long before Israel, the Occupation, settlements, and Bibi Netanwhatthehellever.

[LeftishBrit]

78. Since when has London been in Israel?

This is a bunch of racist drunken thugs who probably don't even know or care who the Prime Minister of Israel is.

[cali]

82. wow. you really have a hard time grasping the most basic shit or

you're determined to pick your own false, disturbing narrative. I'll go for the latter. It's......

[laserhaas]

60. Can I suggest changing the Title word "attackers" to "Attack" - so it will fit Twitter?

Thanks for posting this...

Rec' Tweeter, FB'd

[quadrature]

70. must be a European thing

because if this was attempted in Texas,
the youts would end up looking
like a Swiss cheese

[WestSeattle2]

96. And the human race supposedly is evolving. Really.