Revealed: How torture was used to foil al-Qaeda 2010 plot to bomb two airliners 17 minutes before
Source: Independent UK
Revealed: How torture was used to foil al-Qaeda 2010 plot to bomb two airliners 17 minutes before explosion
Exclusive: Information from terror suspects about 2010 plot was used in a 'Jack Bauer real-time operation'
In his first interview since stepping down from Secret Intelligence Service in January, Sir John Sawers told the BBC yesterday that torture does produce intelligence and security services set aside the use of torture because it is against the values of British society, not because it doesnt work in the short term. Sir John defended the security services against accusations they had played a role in the radicalising of British Muslims, including Mohammed Emwazi, who it is claimed is the extremist responsible for the murder of hostages in Syria.
The IoS can reveal details of a dramatic Jack Bauer real-time operation to foil an al-Qaeda plot to bring down two airliners in 2010. According to a well-place intelligence source, the discovery of a printer cartridge bomb on a UPS cargo aircraft at East Midlands airport was possible only because two British government officials in Saudi Arabia were in immediate communication with a team reportedly using torture to interrogate an al-Qaeda operative as part of ticking bomb scenario operation.
Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/revealed-how-torture-was-used-to-foil-alqaeda-plot-to-bomb-two-airliners-17-minutes-before-explosion-10077722.html
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)BadGimp
(4,022 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Love "Homeland" though, much more psychological and subtle.
midnight
(26,624 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Alexander Lebedev, a Russian billionaire owns the Independent.
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)He pours a glass of water, lets out a little smile, and eventually says: "Well, let's hope it never comes to that
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/mar/14/evgeny-lebedev-russia-not-homophobic-country
PaulaFarrell
(1,236 posts)midnight
(26,624 posts)I read that Putin put an Oligarch in Prison. But then read this article and he likes what Sen. Paul Ryan likes vouchers and privatizing things too.
"The Khodorkovsky affair has been a shock for those who had come to believe in the "new Russia." During the previous dozen years, Russians had rejected the Communist Party and the Soviet Union's command economy. To the applause of most of the outside world, Russian and foreign economic advisers drew up an elaborate program for the privatization of industry, housing, and land. In an attempt at "people's capitalism," virtually every Russian was issued a voucher good for shares in a soon-to-be-private enterprise. Stock markets sprouted almost everywhere, while industrial ministries gave way to privately owned, Russia-based multinational corporations.
The largest of these corporations were producers of petroleum, natural gas, or metal that had previously been controlled by a Soviet industrial ministry. Their new executives became dazzlingly wealthy almost overnight. In May 2004, the Russian edition of Forbes identified 36 of these oligarchs as being worth at least $1 billion. Khodorkovsky topped the list with an estimated net worth of $15 billion."
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/60263/marshall-i-goldman/putin-and-the-oligarchs
bemildred
(90,061 posts)cstanleytech
(26,347 posts)an attack it is still wrong and the people involved with it at the time including those who ordered or consented to it at the time should be prosecuted and sent to jail for the maximum time possible.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)a.) It is much too convenient.
b.) They would have told us over and over about this by now, except that they just invented it.
c.) Or perhaps stole it from the TV show, these are not the most imaginative people.
cstanleytech
(26,347 posts)Not necessarily, while its true they could have used it to its also true they might have wanted to hide it because remember this is the UK not the US and there was already alot of negative publicity over the US at the time over its use of waterboarding and I doubt the UK government wanted that kind of press.
The other this is we don't know what methods of torture they used to extract that information in this case so it could have been something else even more creative than waterboarding (which is still torture imo) which could have caused an even worse PR disaster for the UK and the other reason they might not have revealed it until now is if they believed revealing it might have compromised security in some way.
But I do agree what they did was bullshit and it was wrong and the people involved including Sawers if he knew at the time should all be punished.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)That's a real back story there. This should get interesting.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)if the specifics of this story are true.
My hunch is that it's just a temporary distraction and will disappear down the memory hole, just like the Sunday Times story on Bin Laden's underground supervillain fortres and the Guardian story about the discovery of Isis' entire employee payroll and financial accounts.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Nafeez Ahmed: The circus: How British intelligence primed both sides of the terror war
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016115713
It betrays the same mentality, thought crime and the need to control it, and the argument for torture based on expediency.
But that is a serious back story there, I'm impressed, it could even be true, and the poor spooks have been forced to reveal it by the mean things we say about them.
Ford_Prefect
(7,927 posts)Only reason this is "in the open" is to respond to ongoing public pressure over use of torture and demands for accountability.
A smugly told dark fantasy implying that an ugly family secret has some kind of moral excuse. Shame. Shame. Shame.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)ask any Catholic who went through the Troubles. Sometimes, the person they are torturing really is a terrorist.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)It started with Ireland and Scotland, but it didn't end there by any means, and they felt even more at liberty overseas, not unlike our own government.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)In the crosshairs, the Ukraine.
Next up for Balkanization, the Russias.
The City of London will be golden.
madokie
(51,076 posts)how can it be so many can know so little. Because they can't see the forest for the trees is why.
The long knives of the BFEE are coming out for john ellis
Octafish
(55,745 posts)With VP Quayle Walker waiting in the wings, it's smooth sailing for eight more years of money trumps peace.
cynzke
(1,254 posts)An unnamed source from MI6 told a taxi driver who told the store clerk at the gas station, who told the guy who supplies the gas to the gas station, who told his mum, a hairdresser by profession, who told her customer who is a reporter for the newspaper. Some how this managed to stay secret all this time. Even people from the airlines involved kept a big story like this secret. Sounds fishy>
still_one
(92,492 posts)sakabatou
(42,198 posts)HelenWheels
(2,284 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,892 posts)until you get caught.
father founding
(619 posts)If it's hard to believe it is usually not true.
PSPS
(13,628 posts)Notice their use of the phrase, "According to a well-place intelligence source." Isn't that the exact phrase used by Judith Miller?
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Jerry442
(1,265 posts)Repeat something, however vile and destructive, enough times in enough different circumstance and there will likely be a good outcome for someone sooner or later. The reason we shouldn't embrace torture is that ultimately it creates an unlivable society, full of torturers, torture victims, people terrified of being tortured, and more terrorists than there were to begin with.
If something working once proves it's OK, then if I hear a story that someone solved his cash flow problems by blowing away a clerk at a liquor store and looting the till, then I guess that would mean we should all do it.
rickford66
(5,530 posts)Get wind of an impending terrorist act somewhere, sometime soon. Have a suspected terrorist in custody. He may just know about the act to be committed. Hmmm. Let's torture him. He tells all the details just in time. What's the chances in real life compared to a movie? Like the detective shows where a hot tip comes in just when it's needed. Right.
pansypoo53219
(21,005 posts)NOT TORTURE. last night on PBS, let the krauts talk amongst themselves when confined + super bugs. got far more helpful info.
Iggo
(47,586 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)and other Fox Noise viewers.
louis-t
(23,309 posts)carrying out bombings? That's like saying "I shot myself in the foot to keep myself from running in front of that speeding truck."
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Most of the time, intelligence obtained via torture isn't especially useful, because the victim will tell you whatever you want to hear.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Stop spreading disinfo that helps the terrorists
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)Torture is barbaric and should be totally off-limits. Always.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)Wrong argument. Assholes.
truthisfreedom
(23,164 posts)"According to a well-place intelligence source..."
Well-place?
daleo
(21,317 posts)We could verify it by torturing him.