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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEugene Robinson asks a scary question
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/12/7/1722344/-Eugene-Robinson-asks-a-scary-questionEugene Robinson asks a scary question
By teacherken
Thursday Dec 07, 2017 · 9:03 PM EST
in his Washington Post column for Friday, whose title is the question, What if Mueller catches Trump and it isnt enough?
Here are his opening two paragraphs:
This is beginning to look like a possible or even probable outcome. With a cravenness matched only by its arrogance, the GOP is Trumps party now. It no longer has any claim to be Lincolns.
And before I proceed on this line, let me add some relevant breaking news:
Link to tweet
snip//
And now I return to Robinson, to his final paragraph, which contains a stark warning:
We are seeing a massive expansion of corruption. It is political to be sure. It is also financial, given the actions being taken in tax policy, in rolling back environmental protections, and so on.
It is becoming a truly frightening time on this 76th Anniversary of Pearl Harbor.
And as I finish, Rachel is telling people that the Judge in the Flynn case is now recused from the case, but we do not yet know why.
JI7
(89,279 posts)mountain grammy
(26,659 posts)peequod
(189 posts)...and the old sight gags, and the RIBOFLAVIN! (in the voice of the Nutty Professor).
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)Mark my words: Vladimir Putin plays decades-long chess, and the Dems (Schumer, Gillibrand, and Harris especially, but all of them really) are playing tiddly-winks.
-app
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Vinca
(50,318 posts)But a Congress with a GOP majority is going to do nothing about it. No one is above the law so can he be charged with crimes at the same time he's in office? One way or another he's got to go. Democrats have to win in 2018.
Cyrano
(15,071 posts)otherwise, the Republicans will be able to protect him from impeachment and/or conviction.
If we don't win them both, we could be stuck with Trump 'til 2020. And given what he and the Republicans have done to the country in one year, there will be nothing left to salvage in another three years.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)But if we don't, we don't. Horrible prospect, but I already live with the reality that the huge threat we must defeat is the extremist right-wing funders who've filled government with their people, including Trump's cabinet.
The Trump danger is mostly military. Get rid of him and Pence or Ryan will control the football, but the dismantling of the systems our republic must have to function and the transfer of wealth and power to a ruling class, and possibly to religious extremists, will speed up dramatically.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Very ticked off. Maybe they'll forget by next year. I won't. I never forget things like that. I can still recite almost every bad thing said or done by husband 35 years ago. I remember injustices.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)DUers follow political news, of all qualities from excellent to trash, but we follow.
Most Democrats do not consistently or in any depth, and definitely aren't passionate about day-to-day details. Those who do follow the news a bit mostly don't read it but instead watch TV network news, and as you know there's very little information there between commercials.
Cable news is for the immersers, but as you can see from below very few Americans, 4.8M out of 200M registered voters, watch cable news. Good thing because, on testing of knowledge of their world, cable viewers test appallingly low.
And here's the other, BIG thing about DU: The number of passionate lefters who gather here, the type who tend to see the Democratic Party as too conservative/not left enough, too unprincipled, too "establishment," too corrupt, whatever, is far larger than "out there."
They go on social media to find people who share their feelings.
As for the current partisan firestorm you've brought up, let's touch base with the Democratic base for a moment: Most Dems remember Franken best from SNL and now have heard only that Sen. Franken's been accused of sexual misbehavior, has been asked to resign, and will resign. By far most do not know that over 2/3 of his 45 colleagues in the senate asked him to resign. They don't care enough about the details to know that.
So passionate lefties are really going to have a hard time trying to get the typical Democrats around them outraged at this "proof" that a majority of our Democratic senators are stupid and devoid of principle, much less gain sympathy for the idea of leaving the party over this "betrayal." Most typical Dems are just going to think his colleagues had their reasons for asking Franken to resign and move on to talking about Christmas shopping, if they're in the mood, Roy Moore.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)It's not cable news that is the primary spreading of the being irked by this.
But even those who are angry...even those will forget by next year. That's why Trump gets away with lies and twisting his past: People believe what you say, and forget the past.
I know I'm unusual in this respect. I remember injustices forever. I remember being outright angry...forever. I'm one of those. So I won't forget.
But the question is: Do I not vote next year? Vote for another candidate? I don't know yet. If there were an election now, I wouldn't vote, I think.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)passionate belief. You imagine you're a bit different because you remember injustices forever, but we all do that. Those stick.
But most of us see, or just suspect, a lot of varied factors and situations too complex to leap to outrage. Over 2/3 of the people who call him Al and work and socialize with him have asked him to resign. We suspect there must be various reasons among all these peopleand hold off leaping to outrage.
I know I wonder why you would to throw 32 Democratic colleagues under the bus out of passionate support of one, without even learning why each of them have acted as they did. What did they do to make you think so incredibly poorly of them and is that based on their actions or is it something born within you? Could there conceivably be injustice in what you are doing?
As for your voting, right now the Republicans are
* dismantling progressive democratic government systems it took 200 years to develop,
* have no plans to refund the Children's Health Insurance Programs,
* are dismantling the ACA and planning the same for the VA, Social Security, and Medicare,
* are leaving Puerto Rico to die,
* are kidnapping people from churches and schools and putting them in detention camps,
* are canceling net neutrality so the internet can be better used to control us,
* are taking many, many other evil actions they know 330 million people don't want, and
* are even making their dark-money investments in destroying democracy tax deductible.
You decide what you should do. If we're worse, vote Republican and study up on rules for surviving on limited means in an authoritarian state. (#1--shut your mouth.)
If we're just as bad, or so bad it just doesn't matter, maybe go dig a hole and fill it in over you because that means it could never have been, and never will be, good under such as us?
Can't figure it out? Maybe look right and get outraged at the enormous injustices committed daily by Republicans?
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,716 posts)certainot
(9,090 posts)roy moore proves they won't be able to do anything if they want to - because they're afraid to be named by limbaugh and the local talk radio gods.
for a year, since innauguration, 1500 radio stations have been working for the kremlin/trump and setting the stage to enable republican reps to deny the facts and blame the 'deep' state obama clinton fbi cabal and dems have no clue. nixon didn't have 300 blowhards screaming lies in his defense to 50 mil people a week.
roy moore is proof the difference isn't money and corporate media - it's talk radio with fox bringing up the rear. if dems want to win big in 2018 all they have to do is stop ignoring talk radio. taking down the talk radio monopoly would give dems supermajorities in 2018.
CrispyQ
(36,540 posts)cuz people don't listen to radio anymore. I think the dems think that, too. And I don't know a lot of city people who listen to radio. Maybe in their car on the way to work, but not at breakfast, lunch, & throughout the day, like we did when I was a kid living on a farm. Rural people listen to the radio a lot. For weather, crop & commodities reports, community news, like farm & equipment sales.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)The more rural you are, the longer your drive to a job in town. If you work outside, you are more likely to listen to radio while doing it. FM radio works well in cities, its shorter wavelengths bend around steel structures better. But it is much shorter range than AM radio, where hate radio rules. Rural areas listen to AM radio and are fed a steady diet of religion and hate talk.
Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)and they both carry RW talk. t is the only thing to listen to. The owners of the stations son't care about profit, it is all about propaganda!
certainot
(9,090 posts)that might help convince the fools:
at a cheap $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 5days/wk = $75,000/wk x 1200 stations republican talk radio is worth $18MIL/day or 390MIL$ /month or 4.68 BIL$/ year FREE for coordinated global warming denial, pro republican free market deregulation and wall st think tank propaganda, swiftboating of good citizens, attacks on public education and teachers, passing voter suppression legislation, trying to repeal obamacare, killing net neutrality, and the hate and fear used to get people to vote republican.
let them think about that the next time they whine about money in politics and corporate media......
many also believe the rw talking points about the 95% monopoly reflecting the market demand for rw talk radio - as if 95% of people who would listen to talk radio in their cars, at work, etc., prefer the ignorance, lies , racism, etc of limbaugh and hannity..... that's an insult to americans.
fact is it's a subsidized and protected mom and pop vs walmart media monopoly and classic military style PSYOPS.
and if it reflects market demand, why is iheart/clearchannel $20 BIL in debt? the right will gladly lose a few bil for trillions in deregulation and tax breaks....
and i suspect many of the 'intelligentsia' leading the dem party and the progressive orgs and media might as well be studying fish without water because of their incredible ignorance of what just kicked our ass.
fucking idiots.
Sophia4
(3,515 posts)Here in Los Angeles, we have KPFK. It's Pacifica Radio, listener sponsored.
certainot
(9,090 posts)here are a few things people can do:
to start, dems and media and political scientists need to be encouraged to poll trump support for talk radio. too much analysis ignores the fact that this is actually the talk radio president and most of putins trolling piggybacked it. ill bet it shows the closest association outside of white, and that will help establish it as a major factor.
monitor it should be easier now to automate recording and transcribing the main rw talkers so people can search and study the patterns and repetition. if all of a sudden theres a spike in, say the word iran or mueller or deep state, etc, it probably means something. knowing about it before it becomes reality means not always having to play catch up
credit it trump needs a RUSH tattoo on his forehead, as do all republican pols and media hacks. they all ride the talk radio bandwagon and feed from the daily smorgasbord of talking points and excuses. dems in media could accurately preface answers to republican media hacks and politicians with thats what limbaugh says but...
investigate it how long has putin been using it? did they find a way to feed limbaugh and coordinate with him and others? are any of them being paid freelance money? exposing the talk radio gods as tools, especially russian tools, would help. Trump guy Sam Nunberg analyzed 1000s of hrs of RW radio & reported to Trump in 2014. to coordinate with Russian ops?
thank all local businesses that advertise on RW radio stations thank them for trump, trumpcare, global warming, privatization of public education, voter suppression, deregulation, tax breaks for billionaires, etc. its easy and fun to listen to a few minutes here and there and get a few email addresses for thank-you notes that can get to the boss/owners.
protest it include the radio stations in any progressive protests they may be better places to protest than capitols politicians and media will notice.
and to combine a few of those, push the 88 universities that endorse 257 limbaugh stations to stop crapping on their mission statements and start looking for apolitical alternatives to broadcast sports on maybe their political science faculties and students can start studying the most dominant political factor in the US the last 30 years. people need to wonder why the unis should drop rw radio. it will start a discussion, gop will freak out, media will notice, and advertisers will flee.
7962
(11,841 posts)But they're not as bloviating as the radio guys
PatrickforO
(14,595 posts)My cousin actually as a shower radio so he doesn't have to miss a single hate-filled minute of xenophobia. In fact, he voted for Trump IN SPITE of all the sexual harassment, Russia, and all the rest because he said Trump is the only one who will 'save us from all the harm illegal immigration is doing.'
When I asked him to be a bit more specific about what 'harm' that was, he couldn't, but stubbornly kept to his guns. You know why? Lou Dobbs, Rush Limbaugh, Mike Rosen and the rest of the post-Fairness-Doctrine hatemongers.
But, hey, with Franken finally out of the Senate, I'm sure everything is going to be hunky-dory.
GoCubsGo
(32,097 posts)They protect their own and cover up for them, instead of throwing them under the bus over questionable allegations, like the Dems do.
As for Robinson's fear that "it won't be enough", I'm not worried about that. I'm watching how Trump and his party are shitting their pants. They are obviously running scared. I think we're going to find out that it's all way bigger than we realize, rather than "not enough."
former9thward
(32,097 posts)So your slur against the committee applies equally to the Democrats on the committee.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/intelligence-chairman-devin-nunes-cleared-of-wrongdoing-in-house-ethics-probe/2017/12/07/b607b1e2-dba7-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html?utm_term=.39855282ef6d
and...
That committee has a troubling history with ethics concerns of its own. It's not likely to return a violation against a Republican. It stalled on Tom DeLay for a long time, and when it finally did rebuke him, one of the key Republicans removed 3 people from the panel (as punishment, I guess).
A committee was formed, in fact, to investigate the committee for congressional violations. So, it's not surprising that it wouldn't return any violation against Nunes or any Republican. It would have been a surprise if it had.
Going with papers in hand in the dead of night to share committee info with the White House? That wasn't considered unethical. Only something he said to the press the next day. And there you have it.
GoCubsGo
(32,097 posts)No. As Honecombe8's post above points out, I am spot on.
former9thward
(32,097 posts)Any action the committee takes has to have Democratic support as well as Republican support. Its simple math.
bluestarone
(17,067 posts)we won't even know who these Dems on the committee are!! (or am i wrong on this?) COVERUP!!!
tetedur
(820 posts)The majority of the people do not want a Tax Reform Bill that will further enrich the rich, burden the middle class more and abandon the poor. Congress will pass this legislation. This is not Democracy. This is not a representative Republic. Congress does not care what the people want. Congress does not care what is best for the country.
We are in it. We have been slipping into darkness for over fifty years and we have arrived.
MousePlayingDaffodil
(748 posts)If "Congress does not care what the people want," and yet "the people" continue to send such representatives to Washington to act in such a fashion, just who bears the responsibility for that?
tomp
(9,512 posts)...have the desire to change this. If one does think that, one hasn't been paying attention.
The dems are complicit in this mess, too, by not being a true opposition party for 40 years, but don't dare point that out or you'll be called a leftist or a purist.
pbmus
(12,422 posts)Kleptocratic kakistrophic klusterf...
Pacifist Patriot
(24,654 posts)Time to mobilize!
https://www.andrewjanzforcongress.com/
calimary
(81,527 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,110 posts)And there is a huge possibility that it will not be enough.
Duppers
(28,127 posts)In this household ever since Shitgibbon Inc. stole the election.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)It is highly doubtful much will be done even if the Democrats are in charge. That is the world we now live in. Unfortunately.
notdarkyet
(2,226 posts)We know their are some that took russian money. Get rid of enough to change the majorities. Why can't dems have their own investigation like the republicans are doing on Clinton? Why can't we charge them with crimes?
brush
(53,924 posts)IMO people won't stand for it and will take to the streets in multi cities, and it won't be a one-day event like the women's march.
The fate of the republic will be at stake.
People still have a say and will express it. What's even more dangerous is that the deplorables will take to the streets as well. Violent clashes are a real possibility.
Right wing militia v Antifa, National Guard in the streets.
We're moving towards dangerous territory.
BigmanPigman
(51,642 posts)and the Fucking Moron. Pardons won't help them there!
Duppers
(28,127 posts)Won't reelect their sorry asses but that's unlikely from what I'm hearing from BubbaLand. These fools are totally brainwashed.
It's a very bad omen but quite likely.
Is there a word for being furious yet frightened at the same time?
What the F will we do?? The republic will be over; our democracy will be thrown into the trash pile of history.
If only our Dem Congress critters 30 yrs ago had had the foresight and chutzpah
shown by Al Franken we would not be in this situation. A Democratic administration's FCC would've yanked Fox's license not long after their lying hate broadcast began.
mazzarro
(3,450 posts)Not that I know of but may I suggest FUrightened?
Duppers
(28,127 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)SWBTATTReg
(22,176 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,364 posts)No substitute for taking Congress in 2018, but it's a tall order.
There are always state charges too
AJT
(5,240 posts)a 20% voting shift.......nearly impossible.
lutherj
(2,496 posts)Trump could be indicted as well. If his successor issues a pardon to Trump then New York State attorney general Schneiderman can still prosecute. I never expected impeachment. Whats more likely is that Trump becomes such a huge liability to the Republicans that they push him out with the 25th amendment. But that would alienate Trumps base and splinter the party. I think whats most likely is that Republicans will slowly go down with the ship while looting everything they can. After the midterms all the dirty little rats will start scampering.
Duppers
(28,127 posts)At the moment I don't trust this country to be that intelligent.
mazzarro
(3,450 posts)lutherj
(2,496 posts)the Democrats would necessarily take back the house or the senate. Even if we did we still wouldnt get a two thirds vote in the senate for impeachment. When I say after the midterms its just a matter of timing. As the current administration starts to wind down Republicans will start to distance themselves from Trump.
I dont see much optimism in what I posted. The ship thats going down isnt just the Trump administration, its also the country.
Duppers
(28,127 posts)I don't even think he'll be removed with the 25th. My only hope for justice is Mueller or NY state AG Schneiderman.
lutherj
(2,496 posts)yardwork
(61,715 posts)mn9driver
(4,428 posts)The republicans that remain in the party are no longer rational people. Mueller could indict Trump with photographic evidence that he killed JFK, Marilyn Monroe and Mother Theresa and it would not matter.
Nothing will happen to Trump no matter what crimes he has committed. Only those who oppose him can be pushed out of office with no evidence. This is the new America.
mazzarro
(3,450 posts)When he said that he could stand in the middle of a busy New York street and shoot somebody and still not loose his supporters.
MustLoveBeagles
(11,658 posts)wallyworld2
(375 posts)It will be a nasty blow to democracy or the end of it.
What it means is that we come to grips to what the republicans have become.
Don't get wrapped up in what they did.
But get wrapped up in a massive voter turn out.
Support local progressive candidates.
Get out and vote.
Take our local governments back.
It's not what they did, it's what we will do, that matters.
Forget the convincing the nutcases they need to change.
We do not have time for that.
Inspire those who will listen.
We gotta vote, we have a platform.
Let's push it.
Our democracy can't be dependent solely on Mueller or the outcome of his investigation.
Guilded Lilly
(5,591 posts)Statewide gerrymandering, billionaire bros and co., etc., yeah , frighteningly, Robinson has a very valid point. And never forget, Russia.
When men without morals, men without decency, men without an ounce of human compassion and integrity have obscene money and power, the outlook can be devastating.
Before these men drenched and soaked bone-deep in treachery die out (so far they cannot buy immortality) and become fodder for worms, a whole helluva lot of suffering and fighting will happen. They are legally making it much easier to pass their infected brains, money and agendas on to younger generations of men before they quit breathing and rot away.
Our war against them is going to be ...well I cant even think of the words...before humanity triumphs, or at least maims them enough to hold them down under the rocks they should live under.
We need more fierce leaders with the same defiant, steely determination of the scores of millions of everyday resisters, but with more immediate power. Backbone, loyalty....fucking support for processes we still have in place to get to the truth and strengthen our decency core to shield us from multitudes of diversions.
Many of those diversions are serious stand alone issues and essential battles with massive generation and gender impact (#MeToo). Some diversions involve defending the literal earth we walk on and air we breathe. Some threaten our children and the strong health we need to fight their battles as well as our own.
And then there is the purposeful enabling of The Stupid to contend with daily.
Nothing about this insidious war is going to be in the least bit easy. Screw ups will be exploited brutally.
Sadly, this week was not a notch in the win column for our Force. That really sucked. It was in the same life-disbelief-wtf column as election night though further down the hideous list.
It is nightmarish to have to wait while things outside of our daily control are going down behind the scenes. It is enough to give us all literal heart attacks realizing that these findings just may not be enough. Dumbfounding, but nothing so far about the abject indecency and moronic ignorance of the Cretin has made enough of a difference.
Yet.
Yet.
Herculean, yup.
Goddess strength, oh, hell, yeah.
But it hasnt stopped us, yet.
The eventual success will be ten times as satisfying as the agony is debilitating.
RESIST REPLENISH REVOLT
You said it so well!
Guilded Lilly
(5,591 posts)Bleacher Creature
(11,258 posts)Orrex
(63,234 posts)Many of us have more or less concluded that no crime is sufficient to force this GOP Congress to act against Trump. Witness the easy enthusiasm with which they've embraced Moore.
So where does that leave us?
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,867 posts)are proven guilty, even of Collusion, I felt like the Republican party will probably ignore it and go on like nothing has happened. This is the level of Corruption that exists in the house and senate now that Republicans are the majority.
ewagner
(18,964 posts)is found in this part of Robinson's piece:
This is beginning to look like a possible or even probable outcome.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)...they can barely wipe their asses.
We should not expect them to do anything for our people or our country.
ewagner
(18,964 posts)I have always believed (and in ~40 years of public service) I have always practiced and supported the ability of government to "do the right thing" when impropriety of any kind came to the surface. I always believed that the mechanisms are/were in place to root out corruption and, quite literally, return the "ship of state" to a safe course....
Between Bush, Trump, Grover Norquist, the Koch Brothers, Scott Walker (Koch Bros on steroids) individual systems of government have been destroyed.
The only backstop left is the voting booth and Walker and Trump are still trying to rig that permanently!
That's depressing!
kentuck
(111,110 posts)FOX News and a few loudmouths have the capability to destroy everything, in my opinion.
My hope is that we can hang on to the next election and give the people a chance to save themselves. If they do not, all bets are off.
We should all be depressed.
babylonsister
(171,102 posts)MineralMan
(146,338 posts)We MUST focus our attention on the 2018 midterm elections. Nothing else is as important.
ewagner
(18,964 posts)the 2018 mid-terms may be our last chance to save our county...
I think Trump and the Repubs know that and that is why they desperately want to create more impediments to voting and registration....
We are living in dangerous times.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)..are whistling past the graveyard.
Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)and, for the most part, it's ignored.
If we don't get the voters out and flip a few, we're done. Period....
MineralMan
(146,338 posts)It's not encouraging.
Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)But I will continue.....
OnDoutside
(19,982 posts)people taking to the streets of America to protest....build it up. AND plague the offices of every Rep Congressman and Senator. Make them feel like the rats they are.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,481 posts)coupled with the Caspar Milktoast leadership of our party gives me very little hope going forward.
CrispyQ
(36,540 posts)Our government has been hijacked by people who believe it should serve them, not The People. I no longer feel confident that we'll get our government back. I see so much complacency in my friends & family - people who were not political before, but were all fired up after the Con's inauguration. Now they are disengaged again, suffering from outrage fatigue. Yesterday one of my hiking friends said, "Please, let's not even mention politics on this hike."
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)How high a cost is worth paying in order to win?
They have arrived at an answer, as evidenced by their embracing of Roy Moore: winning as a party is worth ANY cost.
librechik
(30,677 posts)And we can do nothing against a president willing to throw away our democracy and replace it with hate and lawlessness. Really.
dlk
(11,582 posts)It's become clear, the Republicans are here to pillage and plunder our country, while laughing all the way to the bank. It's not just Trump who is "a clear and present danger" to our democracy.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)They haven't been the Party of Lincoln since the 1930s, when the parties essentially exchanged identities. However, Trump does personify the ugliness of the current GOP.
7962
(11,841 posts)I'm beginning to think the investigation is going to come up with a bunch of petty stuff and no smoking gun of immense relevance. Trump is such a child that if he was worried about a big shoe dropping, he'd be making HUGE mistakes right now trying to hide or deflect info.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,914 posts)about the Mueller investigation.
Here's a link to the transcript of the show. http://wwno.org/post/will-mueller-investigation-unearth-crime-legal-reporter-says-its-complicated
But here's the crucial conclusion, which comes at the very end:
So I think, you know, yes, it is an interesting theoretical constitutional question about whether Donald Trump or any president can be indicted. But I think the far more likely outcome of the Mueller investigation is a report to Congress where he essentially dumps the whole problem in Congress's lap and says, this is up to you if you want to impeach. If you do, help yourself. If you don't, help yourself. But that, I think, is both legally, politically and prudentially the right approach for an outside counsel like Mueller.
Given the way the entire Mueller thing is poking along, I think that it's naive to believe that Trump will be brought down, laid low, removed from office. At least not until and unless Democrats get a large majority next year in both houses of Congress. And given the ineptitude of so many in the Democratic Party and especially in the leadership (the railroading of Al Franken being only the most recent example) I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope for that.
jimlup
(7,968 posts)The Republican's are deep deep deep into this Faustian bargain.
The only real solution to the orange nightmare is the ballot both 2018 and 2020. And we could lose both as they will cheat as they always do. We have no option but to overwhelm them with numbers so massive their cheating can't hide it.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)mchill
(1,020 posts)and sadly, I didn't even flinch
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)As Charles Murray explains it, Trump is a "murder weapon". The Republican's don't really like Donald Trump, they aren't personally invested in him and almost certainly would not have invited him into their homes. He is just a big dumb bomb with which they can blast holes into the American institutions they wish to undermine.
As long as Trump delivers angry white assholes to the polls and doesn't meaningfully obstruct the Republican intelligentsia's agenda they're going to put up with him.
Republicans I know and consider to be house broken don't care about the Russia issue, they don't defend it or discount it, they don't argue the issue at all, they don't care. All they care about is getting another two or three Republican ayatollahs on the supreme court and Trump is by no means an impediment to that.
oasis
(49,429 posts)Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)But that's the only thing with any chance whatsoever. Trump will waltz beyond anything else and proclaim it was nothing but a witch hunt, no matter the avalanche of evidence.
He knew what he was talking about with that 5th Avenue remark. It applies to congress as well as his base.
Rachel does a nice nightly program but she has zero comprehension of what it would require for anything to stick to Donald Trump. Likewise with many otherwise well meaning posters here. They continue to think and reference in historical terms when none of that means anything.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Will it be enough?
RealityChik
(382 posts)Nixon was ousted by a Democratic Congress, wasn't he? It is entirely possible that the outcome may have been different with a republican congress in power. That's also probably why the Iran-Contra investigation failed to nail all the guiltiest players, and Reagan never got impeached or was forced to resign.
It's a sick feeling, especially on the heels of the Franken lynching. There sure has been a world of hurt this week. You keep thinking it couldn't possibly get any worse, and some how it does. How many times can the Dems keep shooting themselves in the foot? Eventually they're gonna blow that foot right off (if they haven't done that already)!
babylonsister
(171,102 posts)But thanks for your concern!
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)area51
(11,929 posts)Republinazis can see the evidence of Trump's mental illness and dementia with their own eyes, yet they do nothing. What's a little treason thrown into the mix?
Midnight Writer
(21,819 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Hekate
(90,865 posts)Peaceful Protester
(280 posts)01) Jessica Leeds (1980s)
02) Kristin Anderson (1990s)
03) Cathy Heller (1997)
04) Temple Taggart McDowell (1997)
05) Karena Virginia (1998)
06) Mindy McGillivray (2003)
07) Rachel Crooks (2005)
08) Natasha Stoynoff (2005)
09) Jessica Drake (2006)
10) Ninni Laaksonen (2006)
11) Burnett's unnamed friend (2010)
12) Cassandra Searles (2013)
Allegations of pageant dressing room visits
1) Miss Teen USA contestants
2) Bridget Sullivan (2000)
3) Tasha Dixon (2001)
4) Unnamed contestants (2001)
5) Samantha Holvey (2006)
Read More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations
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The 88 reasons Trump is unfit to serve as President
The 88 reasons Trump is unfit to serve as President, according to an official Democrats resolution
The list includes the President's remarks about women and his use of Twitter
Harry Cockburn New York Wednesday 19 July 2017 21:02
The list contains 88 points of argument for why he is an unsuitable President and questions many of Mr Trumps business deals, his regular volleys against what he calls the fake news media, and his derogatory verbal attacks on women.
The resolution, brought by Rep. Steve Cohen has no chance of successfully passing through the Republican-led chamber, but it provides a reminder of many of the scandals that have hit the Presidency during Mr Trumps tenure.
Read more:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world-0/us-politics/donald-trump-house-democrats-president-impeach-no-confidence-resolution-a7850006.html
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samnsara
(17,650 posts)...possibly jr as well.
Peaceful Protester
(280 posts)"When Mueller was appointed, legal scholars debated whether Trump had the technical authority to fire him, but even the majority who believed he did assumed such a power existed only in theory".
"In August, members of both parties began drawing up legislation to prevent Trump from sacking Mueller".
"In fact, the risk has swelled. Trump has publicly declared any investigation into his finances would constitute a red line, and that he reserves the option to fire Mueller if he investigates them".
"Earlier this month, it was reported that Mueller has subpoenaed records at Deutsche Bank, an institution favored both by Trump and the Russian spy network".
"It is almost a maxim of the Trump era that the bounds of the unthinkable continuously shrink. The capitulation to Moore was a dry run for the coming assault on the rule of law".
Read More:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/the-mueller-investigation-is-in-mortal-danger.html
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McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Before Karl Rove made election e-voting fraud so easy, everyone would have predicted that the Dems would score huge wins in the 2018---the party in power is massively unpopular and Trump will not be on the ballot to lure his own base out to vote.
Rove used third party splitters like Greens to trim votes from the Dems and give Republicans slim/barely plausible leads. He threw out slime before the elections to convince people after the stolen elections that "dumb voters" fell for the Swiftboat type lies and that this was why the pre-election polls were "wrong." The election results always looked screwy, but most of the time it was hard to pin anything on him, because he always kept track of "the math." In 2004, "the math" got away from him in Ohio, when he was unable to shut down the exit polls----and in 2006, he lost Congress. But the flaw ridden electronic voting system that he put in place which allows the Republican Party to cheat is still here.
In 2016, Russia exploited that flawed electronic voting system.
The corporate donors who support the GOP do not want to give up e-voting. It is too valuable for them in the long term. Yes, the FBI and the CIA and the NSA could look the other way and allow Russia to do another implausible hack. However, the net result would be that electronic voting would become so massively unpopular that it would be outlawed in most states. Meaning that the people who plan to control this country for many years to come would be back at square one.
That is why I think that some members of law enforcement bodies that are not usually adverse to Republican electronic vote fraud will attempt to keep Russia from doing it again. They will tell themselves that they are being patriotic, but their real motive will be to keep Russia from ruining Chase/Exxon/Monsanto's "good thing."
no_hypocrisy
(46,234 posts)Trump, isn't the matter out of Congress's hands? It goes to a grand jury, then a federal criminal trial court.
Then it isn't a matter of impeachment; it's a federal criminal proceeding.
Then you'd have a heck of a time selecting a jury who won't either nullify the findings and let Trump go or a perpetual hung jury or an appeal from Trump, claiming the jury was "rigged with liberal democrats".
Guess the OP was accurate. No matter how you approach making Trump accountable, this country is so well divided, that justice cannot be reliably served.
treestar
(82,383 posts)is will the voters care enough to knock them out in 2018? Will there be enough voters angry at the concept of a POTUS being above the law?