Did gillibrand Force out Franken to get rid of presidential competition?

[Fullduplexxx]

[PoliticAverse]

1. Did you post this to foment infighting among the Democratic party? n/t

[Irish_Dem]

6. I have been wondering the same thing..... nt

[Fullduplexxx]

12. We can discuss without fighting can't we

[PoliticAverse]

15. We can avoid answering the question can't we? n/t

[Fullduplexxx]

19. That is an answer

[PoliticAverse]

24. It's a response, not an answer. You can throw a match into a can of gasoline...

without it necessarily exploding.

[Fullduplexxx]

42. Ok the answer is no . We can discuss it without fighting cant we?

Perhaps not

[Hortensis]

34. The premise sounds like fringe conspiracist nonsense,

requiring both very elaborate and involved conspiracies and behavior that would be beyond extremely untypical of Democratic senators. PLUS, it is of course a grave insult to a Democratic senator to cast her as some evil character out of an improbable novel.

BOTH of these are disallowed by the Terms of Service.

Unless you can produce some evidence supporting it, perhaps of secret collusion between this Democratic senator and the GOP for instance, you might consider deleting your post.

[ollie10]

57. It is well known that Gillibrand wants to run for President....

She is making the case that she doesn't give a rat's ass about due process, she is not averse to railroading a good Democrat, she isn't afraid to play to a false equivalence between sexual assaut and something much more minor.....


....and all she had to do was respect the Senate's investigation process which Franken had willingly agreed to submit to.....

So the question is why someone in her position would do something like this that was so reckless, naive and helpful to the Republican hate machine?

Could it be....that she thought that leading the charge of a lynch mob might help her politically?

Sorry, it does not take a conspiracy theory to recognize political ambition at work here.

Isn't throwing a good Democrat under the bus considered infighting? I thought so....

[Hortensis]

63. "Senator Backs $1.5 Trillion Tax Cut, Then Says There's

No Money for Children's Healthcare."

No, Ollie, it is NOT well known that junior senator Gillebrand intends to run for president. It's merely a stink bomb thrown into the arena to get excitable ones too excited to have outrage left over for the right. A Republican senator said that, and all the others are voting for it.

As for Gillibrand, hasn't it occurred even for a second to wonder if you should care if this conservative Democrat were one of the next dozen to throw their hats in? Remember how well Jim Webb went over?

By the way, Thursday the Republican-controlled FCC will repeal net neutrality. As you must know, net neutrality IS critically important to freedom of speech. And repealing it is also critically important to those working right now to replace democracy with authoritarian government.

[ollie10]

70. I feel Gillibrand wasted a lot of energy that could have been used fighting Trump tax plan, net

neutrality, etc

Instead she led the lynch mob last week and focussed much of the attention there.

Which is another reason she is not a good nominee.....one of many

[Hortensis]

71. Peculiarly enough, lynch mob is what I'm talking about also.

[FarPoint]

37. Well...

Back in the day on DU....This is called Flamebait...

[Fullduplexxx]

22. Oh btw the party needs no help from me regarding infighting

[Kirk Lover]

53. So if they don't need any help why post a purposefully divisive thread? n/t

[Kirk Lover]

52. Sure does look like it...besides the fact that it's RIDICULOUS.

[cpamomfromtexas]

73. I think the same thing.

[cpamomfromtexas]

75. Her actions started this mess. If infighting oh well

She should have thought of that before she tried to start the beating drum that led to this point.

[Egnever]

2. Maybe

But she didn't do it by herself.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Not likely. Franken has been pretty emphatic about not being interested

in running for president. She had political motives, I'm sure, but that probably wasn't one of them.

[BannonsLiver]

10. I agree

By the time she started piling on Franken’s presidential aspirations, which were probably non existent, as you mentioned, were long gone.

[kcr]

29. I don't think that's the reason, though.

I think she did it just to show how tough she is on sexual predators. She's the Champion of Women! Watch her take down Al Franken! 8 accusations! Count 'em! See how tough she is? Wow! Don't you want her for the first woman president, women of America? Gillibrand, for President!

She just wanted to be seen Doing Something, and she saw her opportunity. Weaponizing of #MeToo, just as distasteful as the GOP, IMO.

[onecaliberal]

44. If she were truly tough on sexual predators she might want to start with the guy in the Oval Office

I’m sorry but it’s weak tea

[Lil Missy]

4. That doesn't get rid of him if he wants to run.

[dansolo]

30. The irony is that he may be more likely to run now

Al had indicated that he wasn't interested in running for president. He probably was quite satisfied with being a Senator. But now that he was pushed out, he could actually consider running.

[nycbos]

5. Defiantly not.

[earthshine]

7. It was my first thought on the subject. Harris, too.

Being a strong senator, Franken makes most of them look bad.

[MoonRiver]

11. Well, they look much worse now (Harris WAS one of my favorites for 2020).

[earthshine]

18. Seems to me the voters should be choosing who is an elected official ...

and not party insiders.

I feel the same way about superdelegates, which is a system Franken defended.

[BannonsLiver]

46. Mine too.

I guess if there's any consolation her condemnation of Franken seemed to be one of the more half hearted efforts I saw. Still disqualifies her for 2020 in my view though.

[rainin]

8. I don't think the poster has to explain this question.

It makes sense to question her motives. She made no effort to examine the accusations against him to consider their validity. She just added them up and used the number as a weapon. One of the last ones she added up was laughable, but it didn't stop her.

She has lost all credibility with me.

[demmiblue]

9. No. n/t

[brooklynite]

13. No doubt Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren felt the same way?

You’re suggesting that the entire Democratic delegation is either horribly ambitious or stupid.

[eleny]

16. Well, since we lost control of all three branches I wouldn't rule out stupid right now

[JimBeard]

47. Exactly, very good!

[earthshine]

21. It's called "groupthink." It brings everyone's IQ down. nt

[MineralMan]

14. If so, it was a chump move.

[Freethinker65]

17. If she did, she gravely miscalculated

[rzemanfl]

20. Use a canoe paddle. n/t

[dembat]

23. Did gillibrand forced out Franken to get rid of presidential competition

I believe she did. I used to love her but I can't stand her anymore.

[Renew Deal]

33. I don't believe you

[JimBeard]

48. You can believe me. I see you are judging Renew Deal without proof.

[TreasonousBastard]

25. I've been trying to figure out what's up with that...

All these women suddenly jumping all over Franken just seems so bizarre.

Why now? Why all of them? Why so adamant that one of their supporters be tossed under the bus? It makes no sense and these women are intelligent and crafty so it can't just be a mistake or overreaction.

Or can it be? Something in the water?

[NCTraveler]

26. So now Franken is as weak as they come.

And Gillibrand is a force like we haven’t seeen before.

This reaction has been stunning.

[bullwinkle428]

27. And she's about to hatch her evil plans on Kamala Harris, Corey Booker,

Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, etc.?

[brooklynite]

28. Being a villainess is apparently easy; all you need are gloves.....

[LexVegas]

31. Jesus Fucking Christ.

[Renew Deal]

32. Did Bernie?

[LexVegas]

35. No, Bernie got roped into the groupthink. nt

[Renew Deal]

38. He can't think for himself?

I think that would be a surprised to him and his followers.

[LexVegas]

39. Read all about it here...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9951071

[LanternWaste]

61. There's zero evidence to support that premise.

There's zero evidence to support that premise.

You'll supply supporting evidence, yes?

Or was that simply another statement designed to better validate your biases?

[Meowmee]

36. I think

I think she did it to further her own ambitions most likely and to draw attention to herself. Her FB is full of very angry posts from mostly NY constituents so it has backfired big time. She and those other cowards played into the hands of the gop hit job.

[Renew Deal]

40. At least 30 senators called for his resignation

So why focus on her? Because everyone knows she's the top candidate going into 2020.

[comradebillyboy]

62. She led the charge. She gets the credit.

[Bradshaw3]

76. If she's the top candidate we are in trouble

I think she would get less support than Hillary in the general.

[Fullduplexxx]

49. It wouldnt be the first time a politician acted in their own self intrest

[better]

41. Are you using the Fox blueprint for discussion titles?

To be clear, that's meant to illustrate a point, not to question your intent.

And that point is that we have long recognized that our opposition uses wording like this to lead readers to their intended conclusions. We should know better by now than to use their tactics against our own for them. To what degree political ambition, be it either craven or pragmatic, played a role in what we have just seen happen in this case is obviously a legitimate, and I would even argue necessary, topic of discussion, but I would urge all of us to be more mindful of how we use social media. An easy way to start is to ask the underlying question, rather than ask for validation of one possible answer.

The underlying question, obviously, is "what motivated Gillibrand to call on Franken to resign?"
To get rid of presidential competition is one possible answer, but it should be handled as a possible answer, not the question itself.

[Kirk Lover]

55. I'm pretty sure she called on him to resign because a pattern of groping was developing...whether it

is true or not is besides the point for this post. All the female senators agreed that if one more allegation surfaced that was it and that is what happened.

[karynnj]

43. Absolutely not -- Think about the timing - That photo alone would make his winning

the nomination unlikely. Yes, I know the kind of man who is currently President -- and I think you would agree that he NEVER could have won the DEMOCRATIC nomination.

I think that Franken was intensely popular on DU, but I don't think he is as popular in the overall population. If Gillibrand feared him as her main competition, as soon as that photo came out, I would assume that she would have re-ordered the list of her competitors. In fact, harassment has been an issue she has been involved with for years.

Anyone speaking an unpleasant truth to people they later want to get support from - like her comments on Bill Clinton - means that she is not playing political games.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

45. If it wasn't Franken it would have been someone else

She just wanted something nice for her trophy room and was willing to railroad someone innocent and a fellow Democrat to get it.

[kstewart33]

50. Oh, stop it.

On this issue, DU is beginning to resemble a leftwing Breitbart.

[MikeydaDog]

51. No

[pnwmom]

54. Did Bernie help her to get rid of presidential competition?

[samnsara]

56. we need to be very diligent and not allow any populist to take over our party

..not saying that's what this person is but I can see a trend elsewhere beginning and we have to be watchful.

[comradebillyboy]

64. I never heard anyone accuse Gillibrand of being a populist.

[LanternWaste]

58. Is there any evidence at all which supports that premise?

Is there any evidence at all which supports that premise?

No? No.

It's thus little more than an irrelevant guess.

And what is the point of discussing an irrelevant guess?

[marble falls]

59. Its worth considering. Gillibrand might be a safe choice for "conservative" women....

Its a thought. How about Al Franken for vice President??????

[delisen]

60. I think she is dedicated to ending sexual harassment

and that is her main driver-not getting rid of competition.

I don't agree with her tactic but think she is driven by what she believes in.

[all american girl]

65. Oops, is she too uppity...it wouldn't be that in her senate career she has been very

vocal about sexual assault/harassment in the military...so it's most certainly must be that she wants to get the men out of the way...what a conniving.......

We've already seen this show done to Hillary...not sure it's going to be as easy this time around.

[LostOne4Ever]

66. I think you posted in the wrong forum

You obviously meant to post in the Creative Speculation group which is home to such ridiculous conspiracy theories such as yours:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1135

[Fullduplexxx]

69. I dont agree i think it's just a question and not an unrealistic one

And one which more than i are asking

[gordianot]

67. Communism was a real problem in the late 1940s that led to an extreme radical backlash.

This backlash created the likes of Richard Nixon and Joe McCarthy who did no care about possible innocence or guilt. The tools of innuendo and destruction for political gain gained much popularity. It appears to me we are revisiting a backlash that is based on similar method and avoids justice.

[Ken Burch]

74. Actually, Communism was a largely imaginary problem in the U.S. in the late 1940s.

There was never any possibility of a "Communist takeover" in this country, and McCarthy and Nixon and the HUAC crowd all knew it.

The second Red Scare was mainly about making sure that the majority of Americans who wanted a revival of the New Deal were prevented from achieving that.

It was also about ending any dissent on the direction of U.S. foreign policy.

The long term results were

1)The unwinnable and unwon conflicts in Korea and Vietnam;
2)Another round of U.S.-backed military coups in Latin America, Africa, and Asia;
3)The abandonment of New Deal policies by our party, the choice that guaranteed the hegemony of Reagan, both Bushes and Drumpf.

I agree with your point about the short-term consequences of the Red Scare.

[VermontKevin]

68. She took out more than Franken.

[Ken Burch]

72. here we go....

[jamzrockz]

77. This was about gaining a clear

moral high ground against the republicans. If they demanded due process for Franken, Moore would ask the same for him. Also, nobody forced Al Franken out, he voluntarily left. Enough with this nonsense that Gilibrand forced him out of anything.

Also with the strings of allegations against him, any chance he had on winning the nominations evaporated with it. Gilibrand didn't need to play any dirty tricks to knock Franken out of the race. If anything her vocal stance against Franken would hurt her chances like it seems to be doing now. What we are observing is party politics not personal gain politics

[Fullduplexxx]

78. The cons dont care about moral high ground . What they have said to me about it was

You have the moral high ground we have all 3 branches of government .. i dont think k.g. understands with whom she is dealing