I Believe Frankens Accusers Because He Groped Me, Too

[.99center]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/i-believe-frankens-accusers-because-he-groped-me-too/547691/
The Democratic Party needs to stand with women who have been harassed—and not defend the politicians who abused them.
Dia Dipasupil / Getty / Katie Martin / The Atlantic

Tina Dupuy 2:40 PM ET

In mid-November, a Los Angeles radio host named Leeann Tweeden stepped forward to claim that Senator Al Franken had shoved his tongue down her throat under the pretext of a rehearsal for a sketch he’d written. The coup de grace was a photograph of a sleeping Tweeden and the now-senator pretending to grab her boobs for the camera.

There was an instant cognitive dissonance with Democrats on Twitter. People like Franken. Democrats need Franken. See, the accuser had been on Sean Hannity’s show. She must therefore be a right-winger. She could have been put up to this, they speculated. Roger Stone had tweeted that the “touchy” Franken was about to be exposed six hours before the story dropped. That’s fishy, they surmised. They all sounded paranoid, irrational, and conspiratorial. But that’s how we all sound these days.

I assumed Franken would step down later that day. Tweeden’s story rang true to me. I’d told myself I was the only one. I’d been groped by Franken in 2009.

It happened at a Media Matters party during the first Obama inauguration. It was a great time to be a Democrat. Not only had we just elected the first African American president of the United States, but Franken’s race had triggered a recount, leaving lefties giddy that we would soon have a supermajority in the Senate.

[writes3000]

1. This is sad but as I was saying in another thread, I think Dem Senators are acting on

Concrete knowledge of bad behavior. Not just anonymous sources.

[still_one]

3. I respect anyone who comes out and identifies themselves, and definitely adds to the credibility

Dupuy used to work for Alan Grayson, as an aside

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tina_Dupuy

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. I'm sorry, still one, but all eight accusers can't all be lying.

Each account reinforces the one that preceded it. We look awful defending it.

[still_one]

7. Sorry but I do not consider anonymous accusers as credible as those who identify themselves

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. I can't keep up. How many are on the record ?

[still_one]

14. The one's who identifed themselves are on record as far as I am concerned.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. How many have identified themselves ?

I know it's at least four.

[still_one]

36. I am not arguing with you DSB, I am just stating to me those accusers have more credibility.

Regardless, I suspect Franken will announce his resignation tomorrow, hopefully effective AFTER the vote on the tax bill when it comes back from the House, and then we move forward to continue the fight

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. I just hope all this unpleasantness passes.

[still_one]

56. It will....... and then there will be something else

[LanternWaste]

153. Which is a major factor why many women simply stay silent

Which is a major factor why so many women continue to remain silent in the face of consistent harassment... as many people will always find a reason to trivialize them and their concerns.

No doubt, any woman the Trump harassed or abused, fearing for her future, her job, her family are simply "not as credible..." if she chooses to out herself.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

54. Truth. A pattern has emerged.

It sucks he’s a bit scummy since he seemed to be genuine, but we’re looking like assholes defending him while we yell about R’s that do the same.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

57. I don't take any joy in this...

There's a huge difference between engaging in inappropriate touching like Al Franken and statutory rape and attempted rape which is what Pedo Moore is accused of but that's beside the point. The women Al Franken touched didn't like it.


We can't judge people we like by different standards than we judge the people we dislike no matter how much we want to do so. It puts us in a bad light.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

58. Agreed on all points. nt

[brush]

79. Wait, what? Didn't this last one say he "groped" her around her WAIST?

Last edited Wed Dec 6, 2017, 08:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Come on, that's not groping.

[kcr]

90. It is now!

We will have no Dems left.

[woolldog]

93. People don't even bother to read the article and see what it accuses him of.

Talk about a rush to judgment.

He "groped" someone's waist???? wtf does that even mean? Who cares.

[Jarqui]

112. I had the same reaction

She alleges he "grabbed her waist" while his arm was briefly around her during a photo.

What is that? That's sexual assault? He gets his jollys from touching someone's waist?

And she notes the first allegation - which also turned out to be very, very suspect.

I may have missed some but all that I've seen has left me wondering how much there really is to this and if it's a hit job on him. Something still smells.

By all means, if someone can show me clear wrong doing, he should resign. I'd just like to see it.

[LisaL]

96. Yep, that's the latest accusation.

He put his hand around her waist and squeezed for a photo op.

[rainy]

127. Franken seemed to be touching in silly antic style as a funny man with no

sexual gratification intended. A pinch on the butt during a photo shoot, pretending to be grabbing boobs in a photo shoot and so on. Definitely not harming to the receiver and not by a boss or higher-up seeking power and control or sexual gratification.
Franking should not resign because women say he touched them. That is not a crime. Just yell STOP and I'm sure he would get the hint. He is not a sexual predator just a funny man making mistakes but not a criminal.

[chimpymustgo]

140. But we CAN judge people by some standards of degree!! Did Franken molest CHILDREN? Commit felonies

C'mon, Democrats. We are being STUPID.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

142. If the bar is Pedo Moore we will have to ignore a lot of really egregious behavior.

[Drahthaardogs]

65. Sure they can. Since they won't give a name it could be ONE

Liar for all we know

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. The only victims I believe are the ones whose perpetrators I dislke

[Drahthaardogs]

75. Oh bullshit. When the women come out and give their names

I might change my mind. What PollyAnna bullshit world do you live in where people don't make shit up for political gain.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

98. If you believe all eight accusers are lying there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion

We wouldn't willingly suspend disbelief like this for a Deplorable.

[Drahthaardogs]

105. I believe one nutter equates a hand on her waist for a picture

A "grope", which I find insane

I believe another nutter equates a hand on her back a grope, also said it was on her boob even though the photo clearly showed it wasn't

I believe a third nutter says he groped her ass during a picture with thousands of people around them

I believe another nutter at a USO show lied about a skit that was written "so he could kiss her" was proven as the liar she is when said skit was released on video in 2003 with another actress.

That's what I believe...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

108. If all the accusers are nutters...

If all the accusers are nutters why are twenty nine Democratic senators calling for Franken to resign and why would a man or woman who has been sexually harassed or abused come forward if they are going to be called "nutters" ?

[Drahthaardogs]

113. Because they are stupid and think " if we take the high road

They won't dare seat Moore"


Just like they said McConnell would NEVER use the nuclear option on a Supreme Court Justice and kill the filibuster.

How's that fucking High Road working for us?

[brush]

118. Some critical thinking is required, including from the busload of senators throwing...

Franken under that very bus.

Pls go back and review the first accuser's story — the one concocted with Roger Stone and Hannity where a gag photo was submitted that upon close review showed he was actually touching her.

Ya gotta admit that story is fishy, especially when a photo emerged of the groper accuser actually groping the ass of a guitar player on stage beside her on the same USO tour.

And remember Stone predicted what was to happen hours before the story broke and opened the flood gates for the other drip, drip, drip of clockwork-like accusers making allegations. The last one even saying he groper around the waist.

My god, I think I'm about to faint. A man was asked to pose for a photo with a woman and he actually had the gall to hug her around the waist when he posed.

What is the world coming to?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

134. The anonymous accusers are awfully convenient for the GOP. The known accusers

Stand on very flimsy ground.

The whole thing stinks of GOP malfeasance and typical, intellectually flaccid false equivalencies.

Pukes wanna get rid of Franken and foolishly consistent members of the Democratic Party who think they’re champions for women, are helping by taking this at face-value. STUPID!!!!! In actuality they’re pitching in to destroy a strong, pro-woman, pro-human, progressive Senator, over a bunch of lies—-that ultimately damage women and children and men who have actually been victimized.

[Kirk Lover]

144. This woman was a victim....REALLY?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

146. Senator Franken didn't inappropriately touch me so I can't speak to victimhood or lack thereof

Ms. Dupuy feels violated. I don't feel I have the standing to validate or invalidate her feelings.

[Kirk Lover]

147. Well you called her a victim in your post.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

148. Because she feels she is one and I don't get to validate or invalidate her or anybody's feelings.

As much as i wouldn't want somebody to tell me how I feel i don't want to tell anybody else how to feel.

[rusty fender]

85. Absolutely!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

89. Eight is enough.

No matter how much we want to protect one of our own there comes a point where the costs of protecting that person outweighs the benefits.

[Demsrule86]

151. Two were righties and five were anonymous...we look weak not fighting it.

[ProudLib72]

8. That link makes her seem

NUTZ

[still_one]

10. I don't think so. She worked for Alan Grayson, she is currently a journalist.

She sure isn't responsible for her parents actions, and she has written about that to help others in cults

[kcr]

11. I wonder if she ever found out if she had been an alcoholic?

What was the deal with that?

[ProudLib72]

17. That's what struck me as really strange

She was influenced to believe that she was an alcoholic, and that delusion (?) persisted for 20 years. That does not help her credibility.

[angstlessk]

67. HER WAIST..he squeezed her waist a couple times...that PLAYFUL!

Okay new rule for women, if you want to have a picture taken with someone, you MUST declare that you will accuse the man in the photo op, if he so much as touches her, he is groping her!

Some women would just laugh and say something like "hey, it keeps me afloat in the pool". or some silly thing..it's beyond anything I have ever heard of...

a woman is convinced Franken was approaching her to kiss her, but she avoided it by ducking and running...maybe he just wanted a light?

I WAS groped by a stranger on a bus and stood up and accused him right then and there on a busload of strangers, and these women were so timid it took years for them to say something?

Oh, and I was a mere teenager!

[Clarity2]

132. Alan Grayson

is dirty. He is friends with Dana Rohrabacher (Putin's favorite politician) and testified for removing sanctions on Russia. This story smells to high hell.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. Eight accusers is or should be enough.

[HelenWheels]

37. Subtract anonymous accusers

If they don't put their name to their complaint it should be discounted.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. So would it be 4, 5, or 6 ?

[brush]

94. Wait. Are we not discounting Tweeden's account? Where she submitted a gag photo...

Last edited Wed Dec 6, 2017, 08:05 PM - Edit history (1)

that Senator Franken groped her but upon closer review showed he wasn't actually touching her?

But a photo emerged as the story developed of her actually groping a guitar player's ass on the sanme USO tour? Is everyone forgetting that, that she actually did grope someone but wash't pilloried like Franken was.

Not to mention the fact that she, Roger Stone and Hannity concocted the whole hit job, with Stone predicting what was coming hours before.

Come on folks, a little analytical thinking is required if we're not to make all of our male office holders and candidates vulnerable to what seems like a repug test run for their latest dirty tricks tactic.

The first incident that started the drip, drip, drip of the others sounds suspicious, folks.

Let's be smarter than to throw our accused Democrats under the bus without the investigaton Franken himself called for and Tweeden immediately back off of by saying it wasn't necessary and she didn't want him to resign.

What was she afraid would be found out in an investigation?

[7962]

149. She said it was ridiculous for him to consider resigning. And she accepted his apology.

No, I won't discount her story. But she also ended it when he apologized.
Its all stupid; what conyers did is far worse than what Franken did. They shouldn't be equally pilloried.

[brush]

152. IMO she had no standing to accuse anyone of groping since she did it herself.

Plus the photo she submitted as evidence was a gag photo without him actually touching her.

I don't believe her accusation at all, but she and Hannity and Stone won.

They got him out.

[cilla4progress]

2. I'm not sure I agree

that squeezing her around the waist is groping in a sexual sense. He sounds like a handsy guy, and some of the acts do cross the line. But not necessarily this. In the glee of the moment, he may have just been expressing himself physically.

There's a difference. I'm OK with hugs from some guys, and yet not others. We generally have a sense of the intent at the time. Of course, grabbing a breast or p**** is indisputable.

[kcr]

9. We should be prepared to be attacked, but I agree

He squeezed his hand while it was on her side? Yeah, some of them cross the line but note those are anonymous, and even those, the pics don't show what they claim. I don't think it's a coincidence that all these claims are happening during these pics. It's mighty convenient. And Alan Grayson. Ugh.

[FBaggins]

16. Isn't it up to her whether she feels uncomfortable or not?

She says that she doesn't allow her husband to touch her like that in public. Why should Franken get to decide what parts of the body he can and can't grab rather than the person actually in the body?

[kcr]

19. Then maybe when she stands with celebrities for photos she should warn them

Because that's fucking insane.

[FBaggins]

22. Nah

It isn't too much to expect a man to ask what she's comfortable with before touching her if they aren't already friends.

Interesting that you mention "celebrities". Franken appears to agree with you that his celebrity status gives him special groping/kissing rights too.

[kcr]

24. This is nuts.

And this is exactly what the Alt-Right wanted. To make a mockery out of #MeToo. Congratulations.

[FBaggins]

25. Laughable.

You've entirely missed what makes a mockery of #MeToo... it's that people don't believe women when they come forward if the abuser is someone they support. DUers today are making it impossible to claim that Moore's supporters are accepting of abuse.

[kcr]

26. Don't believe women... about being touched on the waste during a picture.

I don't think I'm the one who's missing a damn thing.

[FBaggins]

35. Might as well just leave it at "don't believe women"

That's how we look today. Thanks ever so much.

[kcr]

41. So the claim itself doesn't matter?

So, if her claim was any old thing, say, he used the 10 items or less lane at Publix and she clearly saw he had 11 and it violated her eyeballs! We'd just have to take her at her word! Gotta believe her. She knows what her eyeballs can and can't handle.

[FBaggins]

43. So which defense is it now?

He didn't do it or it wasn't a big deal?

[kcr]

45. I've never wavered. It's not a big deal.

You're making a mockery of #MeToo by claiming that this is a legit claim of groping.

[True Dough]

72. Don't be cowed by the Franken apologists

The evidence continues to mount, and I doubt we know as much as the growing number of Dems calling for the Senator's resignation.

[kcr]

74. I'm sure the He groped me because he was thinking about it! I just know he was! accusation is coming

And you true believers will be right there on cue to shame us when we don't fall in line.

[FBaggins]

82. Laughable

The actual "true believers" are the ones who simply can't find it in their makeup to believe what several women tell them is true because of the way the man votes.

[kcr]

87. Laughable is not caring that the accusations are annonymous

And the two that weren't? The first one was found to have inconsistencies and she does have credibility issues. The second based her credibility on a FB post that appeared to be them joking and it never even materialized. And, I'm sorry, but this one is a joke! If you're only going to believe it because of the others, then that's laughable.

[FBaggins]

100. Nope... it's continuing to pretend that they ARE anonymous.

But you keep spinning. If nothing else, we should be entertained in our misery.

If he resigns tomorrow I"m sure that you'll have yet another laughable explanation for why even that doesn't mean that he did anything wrong. "He's just too much of a gentleman to not honor what other Senators are asking him to do. You didn't expect him to hurt their feelings, did you?"

Like my southern relatives who insist that the South never really surrendered. It's just that Grant mistakenly thought that Lee's sword was his and Lee was too much of a gentleman to ask for it back.

[kcr]

102. What? Pretend that they're anonymous? They are! It's a fact!

That's not spin. I'm not spinning anything. Have you not actually been paying attention to the story?

[FBaggins]

110. Nope.

There's a difference between being anonymous and a reliable news agency not disclosing the person's identity. We have been told more than enough information to believe this morning's accuser. It's more than obvious that the true believer spin machine stuck on "anonymous" because we know enough that "liar" is not believable... nor is "not serious" or "right-winger". You're left with "DU doesn't know her name" while dodging any conversation regarding whether the reporter and editor are reliable (because they obviously are). Another of the earlier accusers that you would call anonymous was not only known by a Politico reporter, that reporter had been told of the incident at the time that it happened. That's not an "anonymous" source either... it's a source known to the reporter... just not known to DU.

I'm not spinning anything.

You're not spinning anything well... but you're definitely spinning.

Come on... give us a taste of what you'll say if he resigns tomorrow. By implication you've challenged to veracity or sanity of several DUers... a majority of Democratic senators... at least a pair of reporters (and, of course, the victims). How will Franken fare?

[kcr]

115. But I'm the one who's spinning

Yeah. What do journalists call it when they withhold the name? There's a word for it... Oh, what is it...

But no. Here's the article. They clearly state they want to remain anonymous themselves. Here ya go!
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/a-fifth-woman-has-accused-al-franken-of-sexual-misconduct_us_5a20032be4b0392a4ebb9e74

'The woman said she didn’t want her name published so that her name would only reflect her own accomplishments and not be linked “to a man’s bad behavior.”'

"Two other women recently told HuffPost, anonymously, that Franken touched their butts in separate incidents. Last week, Minnesota woman Lindsay Menz accused Franken of inappropriately touching her while posing for a photo in 2010. Prior to that, radio host Leeann Tweeden accused him of groping her and kissing her without her consent during a 2006 USO tour."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

116. Game this out . Let's say there was a Senate hearing.

Franken has already admitted to improper touching , although he said he thought it was innocent touching at the time. The women would testify they felt violated.

Where would we be then ? We would be where we are now, allowing the Deplorables to muddy the waters.

[FBaggins]

119. One major difference on where we would be

It would be almost a year from now while Dayton is running for reelection. Minnesota is clearly nowhere near as safe as they were a few cycles ago... so maybe the taint costs us the gubernatorial race.

Then who gets appointed for the following two years?

Plus, as you point out, the muddied waters occur during a key mid-cycle election where we have many more Senate seats endangered. Trump would get just about anything he wants after that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

120. I empathize with Franken. Maybe in a different environment he keeps his job.

OTOH those women felt violated and it's not for me to say their feeling of violation should be ignored or discounted.

Either we are the party that believes, within reason, women or we aren't.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

76. I'm probably one of the most partisan Democrats but at some point the evidence becomes cumulative.

[FBaggins]

81. Exactly

Nice to be on the same side.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

86. Every Democratic senator has called for his resignation or remained silent...

Every Democratic senator has called for his resignation or remained silent including DU heroes like Elizabeth Warren . That should say something to anybody who is willing to listen.

They have likely concluded that Al Franken will be replaced by a Democrat and if he stays that he allows the Deplorables to muddy the waters when we want to be seen on the right side of the sexual harassment/abuse debate in 018 and 020. They also likely concluded he did engage in inappropriate behavior.

[True Dough]

107. The sad part, IMO, is that some Dems

are willing to overlook Franken's groping. They are acknowledging it, but hell bent on having the Republicans give ground first by having Trump answer to the allegations against him or preventing Roy Moore from proceeding as a candidate.

I don't think we should stop insisting on those things, but we shouldn't compromise our principles by giving Franken a pass just because he's "one of our own." And I'm not equating Franken's inappropriate touching with what Roy Moore did, but Franken's actions still warrant serious action. A resignation is not out of line.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

111. Of course Franken isn't as bad as Pedo Moore Or Chump.

That would be akin to comparing a shoplifter to an armed robber. But that is beside the point. We are where we are. Franken's misdeeds, albeit small, put us in a bad light defending him.

[grantcart]

21. Why is she hugging his shoulder and why does she appear to be having a good time?

Looks like she is having a good time getting a picture with someone she likes.

[FBaggins]

23. So you're saying that she was asking for it, right?

The refrain of abusers everywhere. Hell... she's probably wearing a short skirt too!

Just didn't expect to see it on DU.

[grantcart]

31. Of course I didn' say that. I am saying that the picture doesn't match with her account

a) They were in a mutual hug, not Franken grabbing her. She was hugging back, quite enthusiastically.

b) She appears to be quite happy in the moment.



c) Her article includes the passage about Franken but she seems much angrier about her support for Clinton when the accusers accused him before.

As I responded below I find her the most credible accuser of Franken yet, but it seems that she felt he "over hugged" her (my words) and the picture doesn't support her version, the photograph shows someone who is standing close to Franken and hugging him from behind, clearly she could have had more space between them if she wanted and her smile seems to be someone who is really enjoying herself.


Did you read the article and did you look at the picture because your bitter accusatory response doesn't seem like you did.

[FBaggins]

39. Sigh. Have you not seen other photos with celebrities?

People have won lawsuits (and recently) over being groped while having their pictures taken. The photo almost never shows the victim doing anything but smiling for a photo... the smile IS NOT evidence that she liked/accepted whatever the man was doing.

You may THINK "of course I didn't mean that"... but it's exactly how abusers defend themselves... "just look at her smile! Obviously I wasn't doing anything that she didn't WANT"

[crazycatlady]

47. Read accounts of Taylor Swift's trial

[FBaggins]

53. Right... I forgot about that one

Here she is smiling... and where is HER hand?

Obviously nothing inappropriate on his part. Oh wait! What's his voting record? I need that in order to decide whether to believe her!

< /sarcasm>

?ve=1&tl=1

[woolldog]

103. This photo doesn't prove your point.

Just the opposite. Swift looks very uncomfortable and his hand look like he's groping her. Not so with the Franken photo.

[FBaggins]

114. How many more will it take?

Look! She's smiling and has her hand on his shoulder!

?imwidth=450

More smiling. Where is HER hand???



More smiling! Wait... HIS face looks like he's the one that's being assaulted!



DO we need to go on?

[Matt_R]

143. Yes, please.

I mean an elderly guy in a wheel chair, with his arm around what looks to be a lady's bum in most pictures. 1 and 3 for sure, can't see 2 because of the cropping, and 4 might need to ask some witnesses...

Now where was you again... oh yeah... someone other than GHW Bush.

[LisaL]

64. Has anyone won anything for hand around waist?

Do tell.

[FBaggins]

68. Is that all he's accused of?

Nobody would be calling for him to step down if this was the only claim.

[DeminPennswoods]

48. If you don't want to be touched,

then don't put your hands on the other person. Lean in, smile and keep your hands/arms in front or at your side.

[ProfessorGAC]

124. That's A Punkish Reply!

That poster said nothing close to that!
You go ahead with your witch burning, now!

[FBaggins]

126. Hyperbolic, but not close to punkish

"Look at what she's wearing in her Snapchat judge! And she's obviously sitting next to him in a bar with a smile on her face. How plausible could her rape claim be???"

[bettyellen]

28. Well she's allowed to touch him however she'd like but her waist is off limits?

I thought it was below the waist that was a problem?

[grantcart]

33. exactly and she is behind him so she could have easily put some inches between them

[HelenWheels]

40. Then she shouldn't cuddle up to Franken.

[FBaggins]

42. Please stop blaming the victim

"Just look at her smile! Obviously she WANTED it!" is beneath anyone on a progressive site.

Oh look! She's smiling! Must have been lying about being groped.

[LisaL]

60. Oh give me a break.

She doesn't even claim he touched her butt, she claims his hand was around her waist. Since when it is groping?

[FBaggins]

66. I would agree if she were the first or second accuser

We're long past that now.

[LisaL]

84. He posed for a lot of photos.

So there are could be a lot of people he was touching on their waist during photo ops. Which is now apparently considered groping.

[grantcart]

20. Is her hand on his shoulder groping? Does her picture looked like she is uncomfortable about being

gropped.

If you read the article she spends most of her energy railing against Clinton.

[traladeda]

109. I agree

Equating physical gestures to sexual assault is the worse sort of false equivalence. And at the same time, this woman is entitled to not like what he did. Al hears this, has learned from it, and will comport himself differently. That's what we want!

[Mandos the Judge]

6. Not sure...

Not sure if I would classify this as groping. I don't doubt the story, but this story reads more like a touchy person (Franken) not being aware of other people's personal boundaries and comfort zones when it comes to physical contact.

[grantcart]

18. This is a credible account. But an account of what?

She was angry about Bill Clinton and accuses Franken of squeezing his hand around waist during a picture.

She is smiling and has her hand on his shoulder.

So she was happy that she was hugging her but unhappy that he squeezed twice.

He immediately put his hand on my waist, grabbing a handful of flesh. I froze. Then he squeezed. At least twice.

Apparently the inappropriate squeeze happened after the picture was taken.

In front of a camera he put his arm around her and she put her hand on him. Sounds like an inappropriate hug.

If you read the article her main problem is that she is angry with herself in giving absolution to Clinton, really very little about Franken. The picture doesn't support what she is saying but at least she didn't make an anonymous charge.

[wellst0nev0ter]

141. Yeah, after the photo was taken

he gave her two squeezes like you do when you are holding a shoulder
I guess the waist is now a Red Light Touch area.

[The_Casual_Observer]

27. What next. "He shook my hand too long!" ???

[erpowers]

61. He Shook My Hand

He walked up to me, said hello, and then shook my hand. I was horrified.

I had my back turned and he tapped me on my shoulder. He did say excuse me I am trying to pass by here, but we all know that was just an excuse to sexually harass me.

I am not trying to make light of sexual harassment, but I did think you post was funny. This case is truly weird. She is saying a guy groped her because he put his hand around his waist.

[kcr]

92. Well, normally I wouldn't think a hand shake was sexual harassment, but

with the 20 anonymous accusations already of shoulder brushings, knee touches, mind-melds, and psychic readings, well, gee, that's an awful lot!

[woolldog]

106. lol

Exactly the illogical reasoning going on here.

[gay texan]

29. Isn't she on Stephanie Miller? N/t

[califootman]

30. What we have here is a failure to communicate...

We posed for the shot. He immediately put his hand on my waist, grabbing a handful of flesh. I froze. Then he squeezed. At least twice.


I’d been married for two years at the time; I don’t let my husband touch me like that in public because I believe it diminishes me as a professional woman. Al Franken’s familiarity was inappropriate and unwanted. It was also quick; he knew exactly what he was doing.


It shrunk me. It’s like I was no longer a person, only ornamental. It said, “You don’t matter—and I do.” He wanted to cop a feel and he demonstrated he didn’t need my permission

(Bold, italics, and underline in the above are all mine)

1. How do you know what Franken was thinking/feeling? You don't.

2. How does Franken know what you were thinking/feeling? He doesn't.

3. How does your husband know not to touch you like that in public? I'm guessing here, but I bet it is because you TOLD him.

[Bengus81]

38. She was so outraged by Franken's behavior she put HER arm around him and hand on his shoulder...

What a joke.......

[erpowers]

52. She Does Not Make Sense

How is it that her husband cannot touch her like Franken touched her in public? To me that seems like she cannot touch her husband in public. How does her husband touching her like that "diminish her as a professional woman"? Who would even notice her husband touching her like that.

What she describes seem to me like someone who was trying to take a picture with another person. What does she mean by "grabbing a handful of flesh"? Maybe I am making this too hard, but how do we know that Franken didn't just put his had around her waist and try to squeeze her close to him in an attempt to take a proper picture? What if he was just trying to adjust his hand?

[erpowers]

32. Not Groping To Me

What she described does not seem like groping to me. I do not know. What if he was just trying to get close to her to take the picture?

[Bettie]

59. If it is the picture in the article that she's referencing

his hand around her waist would have been hard to do anyway, with her being behind him. Also, a squeeze on the waist is not sexual assault.

[uponit7771]

34. "He immediately put his hand on my waist, grabbing a handful of flesh. I froze. Then he squeezed. At

... least twice"

I've been squeezed like this and felt nothing about it but I'm not a woman

jus

shhhit

[cbdo2007]

44. I don't get this one...

She claims he copped a feel...of her waist meat?? It wasn't even her rear or anything but she says he grabbed her waist, which is what you do when someone wants to take a picture with you. She says she doesn't even let her husband put his arm around her in public so it sounds like she may be too sensitive.

[wellst0nev0ter]

138. Sort of like people touching a pregnant woman's stomach without permission

That's not right. I would imagine this isn't right either.

[standingtall]

49. This woman sounds like a walking stereotype

for republicans to make use of. "He put his hand around my waste'. She blames Hilary's loss on what happened with Bill Clinton in the 90's. This is win win for repukes they get Franken to resign first and then when it's time for elections they get to portray the Democratic party as being overrun by hyper feminist hell bent on man haterism.

[Nevernose]

50. He put her hand on her waist?

Some selective cutting and pasting there.

At least we now have a credible, on the record accuser. She alleges that when taking a photo with another person, that other person put his hand around her waist.

It’s not going out on a limb, even a tiny bit, to suggest that no, Franken didn’t do “the same thing” he’s been accused of to her.

[LisaL]

55. Yes, she is describing what sounds like a normal hug for a photo op.

If that's now groping, looks like a lot of politicians will have to resign. Democrats of course.

[RandomAccess]

62. Unfortunately, this article convinced me

I'm truly sad.

But I'm glad you posted it. I always want the truth, even if it's ugly.

[Dreamer Tatum]

63. This thread answers the question of "why are the accusers anonymous" pretty decisively

Even when you see their name and read the story, it's bullshit or "doesn't sound like groping."

Shameful.

[Nevernose]

69. SOUNDS LIKE? Its literally NOT

He put his hand around her waist. Her words, her story. Her waist.

In what world is that “groping?”

“Shameful” is piling onto someone’s slander to further their own writing career, or using an old, completely non-sexual photo, to further one’s personal agenda.

[Dreamer Tatum]

70. Because she said it was, and I believe women when they say they've been groped.

As I've been encouraged, if not required, to do. On DU. Before Dems started getting accused.

[kcr]

73. That has never been the definition of groping.

But there are no limits when it comes to making a joke out of the #MeToo movement. It's utterly transparent.

[LisaL]

77. Well, it is now.

Because her claiming Franken put his hand around her waist for a photo op is now considered a credible accusation of groping.

[kcr]

78. And apparently the number of accusations is the only thing that matters

None of them have to be credible. The GOP are getting lots of lessons on how to fuck us over.

[LisaL]

80. We came up with that one too.

Believe everybody accusing somebody and if they are multiple people making accusations that makes it even more true. So we are being hoisted by our own petard.
I could see that coming from a mile away.

[kcr]

83. Oh I think there's more than a little help

But yes. We've always been good at that.

[LisaL]

88. Falling on our own sword is what we do best.

[BlueStater]

101. What matters to me is not the number of allegations, but the merit behind them.

I believe Moore's accusers because they sound credible and they have evidence and witnesses to back them up. I believe Cosby's accusers because their stories follow a similar pattern of abuse and I don't think around 30 women just got together one day and decided to randomly destroy the reputation of a formerly beloved celebrity. I don't believe Franken's accusers because three of them chose to remain anonymous and all they have for evidence is photographs, which proves nothing other then that they've met him.

[kcr]

104. Some are indeed basing their judgment on the number of allegations.

Whether or not any of them have any merit doesn't seem to matter. It's just the fact that there are multiple accusations and that's enough for them.

[LenaBaby61]

122. In what world is that groping?

That's what a friend and I were discussing yesterday. Is a touch on the shoulder/waist or an accidental bumping of a woman's rear end by a male (or even a woman bumping another woman's rear if she's a lesbian) if taking a group picture sexual assault?

To some women, touching a waist/shoulder or accidentally bumping into a woman's rear end if taking a picture IS sexual assault.

The same friend (56 years old now, was brutally raped in Florida by 2 men when she was 29) told me that her young niece told her that she and her friends (Niece/friends are 30-ish, and most of her friends agree with that definition of sexual assault) think that a hand too far around the waist is groping. She said she told her niece "Wait a minute GG (Niece's nickname), a touch of the shoulder/hand/arm too far around a waist or bumping of a rear end in a picture for a moment is considered sexual assault to you and your friends?" The niece said "Yes, we feel it's going too far." My friend told the niece "GG, you know auntie was brutally raped by 2 animals, and your Mom and Me told you numerous times what I went through (She was treated for PTSD, and couldn't work for almost a year and a half). She told her "Sweetie, I wished I'd ONLY been touched on my shoulder/waist or bumped on my rear in a group picture." My friend said her niece said "Auntie I love you, but touching any part of my person that I don't want you to touch--I'll call sexual assault." My friend said seriously? and she said yes auntie. SERIOUSLY.

I told my friend that the #MeToo movement's in trouble if what your niece told you she and her friends classify as sexual assault. She said she felt sick to her stomach literally when her niece defined sexual assault to her. I said how many pictures have you taken where you work (She's a supervisor @ a hospital) even after your rape where you accidentally touched/bumped a man's/doctor's rear when you were taking pictures? She said many's the time I was in a tight angle shot and a doctor bumped my rear end. We took a picture or two or whatever the function was, and we walked away. I said I've been in tight angle shots as well and bumped a guys rear and he's bumped/brushed mine with his arm or front side. Again, I said we're SO screwed IF, IF, IF. She said tell me about it. I'm stunned that GG thinks that way. Where's her common sense?

Brutal and actual sexual assaults will be diminished over time if only a shoulder/waist touch whatever is considered sexual assault.

Where are we going with this?

[Nevernose]

129. A hand around the waist

Is how I pose for photos with my daughter and my mother. If someone seriously believes that posing for a picture with a hand around the waist is a form of sexual assault, or sexual at all, I think it says more about the person.

We, forget, though: two women have specifically accused Al Franken of NOT kissing them, while a third woman recited her own rehearsed lines from a USO variety show and apparently forgot that it was part of a fictional show.

I believe accusers, generally. I made an OP just yesterday about how Democratic Congressman Kihuen — whose campaign I volunteered for — should step down.

It just seems like Franken is actually NOT accused of half the things CNN puts out there.

[LenaBaby61]

136. I thought that Congressman Conyers should have resigned.

I believed the allegations/statements that the women shared with us all about Conyers. Also, because I was told that Conyers was a sexual harasser, and that he was also rumored to be suffering from something "upstairs" as this friend told me. This friend by the way who lives in Michigan and who was at the time involved in politics there (He's retired now), told me these things about 9 years ago.

But, there's something about the Franken situation that doesn't sit right with me at ALL. Now, I truly believe that not all anonymous accusations should be dismissed against a person whose accusing someone of sexual assault. I get that some women are frightened to speak out even if they're sexual abused/raped/assaulted because all too often women are blamed for the assault or said to have egged a man on

However, something about these Franken accusations just don't sit right with me. Something in the milk doesn't seem "clean" if you will. And yes, there are women who have lied on men and who've accused them of sexual assault rape/harassment.

Oh well, I guess it's a moot point, as it seems that Franken will be resigning tomorrow or soon--sans an any type of investigation--and Roy Mall Rat Moore (Who thuglicans won't ever ask to be investigated for anything) WILL be voted into the Senate, and NO thuglicans won't vote to expel him because they want that vote so they can continue destroying this country.

[wellst0nev0ter]

139. There's at least one Franken accusation that's an obvious reich-wing lie

And we know that the trumpanzees are perfectly willing to lie and ratfuck with the #Metoo movement.

You're right to be suspicious.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

91. A hand around the waste is groping?

Then I must have been groped a hundred fucking times.

[spooky3]

99. Me too

[Drahthaardogs]

95. He didn't grope her. He grabbed her around the waist for a picture

Penn of Penn and Teller did the same thing to me. Lol, this is STUPID

[LisaL]

97. It's groping now.

So everybody who did that better just resign now.

[Mike Nelson]

117. Yikes...

...the waist is a grope?

[Generic Brad]

125. It's like arguing over what constitutes a catch in the NFL

Did he have full possession? Were both feet in bounds? Did he have grasp and control?

[juxtaposed]

121. It doesn't sound like a grope to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tina_Dupuy

After The Tampa Tribune used an article of Dupuy's without paying for it in 2009, she created a YouTube video to shame the paper into paying $75 for the piece.[2][3][4]

As a teenager, Dupuy was convinced that she was an alcoholic and joined Alcoholics Anonymous, and would eventually gain prominence for telling the story of her sobriety to AA audiences. Twenty years later, however, having drifted away from the organization, she began to question the interpretation she had been given of her life story, and decided the only way to know for sure whether she was an alcoholic was to have a drink and see what happened. She discussed the process that led to this conclusion in an interview for This American Life.[5]

Dupuy has spoken openly about being born into the cult The Children of God and subsequently being raised in foster care in California.[6] She created the podcast Cultish,[7] in which she interviewed former members of cults and discussed her uncle Rick Dupuy's public defection.[8]

Dupuy and her husband live in New York City.[

[ecstatic]

123. I'm sorry, but she lost me at the "hand on my waist" part

When taking a picture? It's now dangerous to take pics because if you try to make the pic personal, you risk being called a predator. Ridiculous! This is quickly turning into a farce. I can't.

On top of that, we've basically given repub trolls the green light to make accusations, knowing that we'll be dumb enough to force our people to step down. All while rethugs build another supermajority. Smh

[LBM20]

128. SERIOUSLY?? THIS is "groping." This is BULLSHIT. Sheer and complete BULLSHIT!!!

What a LOAD OF SHIT!! She is saying he grabbed her around the waste too tight and that is "groping"? I think this woman needs a psychiatrist. This is hypersensitive BULLSHIT. He put is arm around her to take a picture as he has done thousands of time. This is all BULLSHIT. Another said he cupped her breast for 5 to 10 seconds. But the picture shows NO SUCH THING! It would have been seen by the people in the room. This is BULLSHIT by people to need to get SANE.

[uponit7771]

130. +1, also said she wouldn't allow her husband to touch her that way?!? She said he squeezed twice,...

... damn I've been getting felt up and didn't even notice then if that's the case.

I remember someone who was way shorter them me (I'm tall) grabbing me by the waste really hard but the top of her head would've been in my armpit and I hate the head-in-armpits feeling.

Anyway, somethings not right here ... I'm thinking we should give DC a holler on this one too

[mainer]

137. Yeah, what's with her being hands-off to her own husband?

I'm a professional, and a woman, and if my husband wraps an arm around my waist in public, I certainlly don't feel diminished as a person.

[Honeycombe8]

131. Now I know why you didn't put the "groping" part in your excerpt...because it's fake.

She asked for a pic with him. He agrees, puts his arm around her waist and grabs waist flesh while doing so. And...and...that's it. I don't even call that groping.

OMG...what's going on here? Are these a bunch of totally anti-social people who cannot countenance being touched in any manner by anyone? Note that SHE SAID THAT SHE DOESN'T ALLOW HER HUSBAND TO TOUCH HER THAT WAY. Let's repeat that: she doesn't allow her husband to "grab her waist." ????

I'm sorry...this is NOT groping. If you've ever been groped, you'd know that this ain't it.

Recognize that these politicians take HUNDREDS of photos with others, at their request. You go in close together for the pic. Can you imagine if during all these hundreds of photos, where you are required to get very close to someone else for the pic, but be very careful not to touch?

[mainer]

133. She sounds like a delicate flower

"I asked to get a picture with him. We posed for the shot. He immediately put his hand on my waist, grabbing a handful of flesh. I froze. Then he squeezed. At least twice.

I’d been married for two years at the time; I don’t let my husband touch me like that in public because I believe it diminishes me as a professional woman. Al Franken’s familiarity was inappropriate and unwanted. It was also quick; he knew exactly what he was doing.

It shrunk me. It’s like I was no longer a person, only ornamental."

So a quick hug, in which he only touched her waist, was all it took to diminish her as a person.

How on earth does she manage to get through everyday life if that's all it takes?

[LBM20]

135. Hypersensitivity and Ultra-Political Correctness is destroying us. It is just RIDICULOUS!

[Kirk Lover]

145. .99 center...DID YOU READ THIS ARTICLE? It's odd how YOU HAVE NOT RESPONDED once in your

own thread. I also note which paragraphs you decided to snip. Anyone who reads the article will see just how foolish and PETTY this claim is. I'm sorry but we need to focus on REAL sexual harassment...not some bullshit like this.

[Demsrule86]

150. Really...how interesting.

I don't believe it. but even if true...so what? Not a reason resign unless you worked for him